Map Generation Analysis: The Weeping Hollow Article by Apoc
I decided to take a closer look at the map generation for The Weeping Hollow and I found that there is a fairly simple generation process behind it. Once you understand how the tiles are placed it becomes obvious how to use that for efficient farming purposes. One of the reasons behind this was because I had recently discovered that the second level of the Den of the Fallen was a place were you could still find higher level loot drop as well as monster affixes that normally don't spawn in the playable beta.
After Beta Patch 14, players were able to breech past the Cemetery of the Forsaken gate and reported seeing new elite monster affixes and higher level loot (amulets/rings). Apparently these things can still be found on elite Plague Carriers (a green version of the Carrion Bats) on the second level of the Den of the Fallen. My guess is they increased their monster level so we're finding Jailer, Vortex, Waller, etc affixes spawn on them and supposedly rings should drop too.
The Weeping Hollow is an area that will always have the same border size, but there are several tiles inside it that are actively swapped around on a grid (white are active, red are non-path event tiles):
Here's a labeled comparison of some generation:
* : Haedrigs' Apprentice's Hut
x/y, m/n : variations on path tiles
b/c : variations on filler tiles
So basically, if we ignore the tiles occupied by the path, there can only be 5 non-path varying tiles. Two of those are used as filler (labeled 'b' & 'c'), and one is reserved for Haedrigs' Apprentice's Hut (labeled '*'), leaving exactly two tiles for interesting things - aka, "Event Tiles".
There are 10 different "Event Tiles" that the game picks for you on generation. Those following the beta may have seen these before:
Open Grave / Open Grave (trapped version)
Hanging Tree / Hanging Tree (trapped version)
Four tombstones / Defiled Grave (elite version)
Abandoned Cart / Abandoned Cart with Rotting Corpses
Corpse Field / Den of the Fallen
What does this mean for farming the Den of the Fallen? Well from what we know now, the Den of the Fallen can only appear on two of the 5 possible tiles (shaded red above). So take the Northwest gate from New Tristram, head left and up, and hit those first four in the "L" shape. If you haven't seen two Event Tiles yet, head Northeast to the last red tile and you're done. Better than crawling the borders of the map. Happy Hunting!
In my experience recently, if you're in a party of two or three, by the end of normal difficulty, if one person strays from the group and a pack of champions comes along, it's fatal.
I'm guessing that it's a little less risky in a group of four, but even then, probably only for a few more levels.
I'm talking about first characters, of course. Characters that are being fed gear and gold by higher-level characters can probably get by without everyone sticking together for a bit farther into the game.
My current motto for group play in Diablo III is "divide and be conquered".
He means that if 1 person leaves group of 3, the 2 people left grouped together will still die if they encounter hard mobs. The single person doesn't stand a chance.If there's a group of 4 and 1 person leaves, the group of 3 still has a chance to survive.
This.
And again, we're talking about two things that vary a lot: the speed at which your specific party can deal with regular enemies, and the degree of uptick in difficulty when you go from regular enemies to champions. The variance is on the skill of the players, and the affixes on the enemies. I'd guess that in some cases, a group of three players (in a game of four, where the fourth is away) are going to get along just fine for pack after pack after pack, albeit much slower than if their comrade was with them. And in other cases, those three players are going to rapidly die to the first pack they encounter.
Why? The answer will be their gear, or their mix of chosen skills, or the fact that the game happened to roll a pack of champs with lightning creeping all over the area, etc. etc.
btw, setting your quest to the second part of "A Shattered Crown" should place you closer to the Den of Fallen by taking advantage of the checkpoint right outside of the Northwest gate.
I actually find the map generation to be pretty interesting, I wonder if it's likely that people will be able to analyze it in a similar way throughout the game or if it'll be more difficult later on when there's a much larger focus than the beta content.
I wouldn't be surprised if this predictability is only because it is a small area, in terms of number of tiles. A reasonable possibility is that the parameters to generate the map are the overall shape, which tile is the entrance, which tile is the exit, and the minimum and maximum path length from entrance to exit.
For this small area, and for a small range of path lengths (likely a single value for this area), it ends up make certain tiles candidates only for path, only for event, or a candidate for both. As an area gets larger, the path length may vary more, it will be a lot less likely that any tiles are event-only.
Also, uber-efficient farming may not have anything to do with events... I never paid enough attention to really know, but I suspect champion packs can spawn on path tiles as well as non-path. If random champ packs are the primary farming target, predicting path vs. empty/event tile might not have any effect on real farming efficiency (which I think is a good thing).
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/36961-a-full-guide-to-the-first-4-overworld-maps/page__p__793856 Very similar content, but by no means am I saying you ripped me off. I encourage more things like this to be created. However, are you 100% sure that there are always exactly 2 'filler' blocks? While that may be true for this area, I don't remember any such restrictions to 'importance' in Fields of Misery, but being able to confirm it for The Forsaken Woods would verify my theory of there being a fundamental difference between small blocks and medium blocks.
I will say, I didn't notice the differences in the path's tiling, but that's because I didn't see anything entertaining on the path, ever. :3 I do feel you have much better descriptions in place for the different event blocks, though. And your info of variants corresponds 100% to mine, though I hadn't gone as far as to observe that, say, the swamp and the Den wouldn't both spawn.
As for amulets and higher level affixes spawning there, I'm surprised they kept it as such. I remember -that- from really early in the beta. It's where I found my first amulet around patch 5 or 8 or something. Since no one had mentioned that peculiarity for a while, I figured they reduced their 'level' back down to average.
I wouldn't be surprised if this predictability is only because it is a small area, in terms of number of tiles. A reasonable possibility is that the parameters to generate the map are the overall shape, which tile is the entrance, which tile is the exit, and the minimum and maximum path length from entrance to exit.
That could certainly be possible for higher difficulties, but the path tile locations are fixed, and the medium event blocks are fixed in the overall grid as well. There's different types of configurations they use for the overworlds, and I'm wondering how random / possibly confusing the Desert area will be.
Also, uber-efficient farming may not have anything to do with events... I never paid enough attention to really know, but I suspect champion packs can spawn on path tiles as well as non-path. If random champ packs are the primary farming target, predicting path vs. empty/event tile might not have any effect on real farming efficiency (which I think is a good thing).
Elites can spawn anywhere, just about. Totally unrelated to most block placement/variants. There's a few events that specifically spawn elites, quest-or-otherwise. The Secluded Grove is a highly farmable one because it's a guaranteed Resplendent Chest -and- an elite.
http://www.diablofan...page__p__793856 Very similar content, but by no means am I saying you ripped me off. I encourage more things like this to be created. However, are you 100% sure that there are always exactly 2 'filler' blocks? While that may be true for this area, I don't remember any such restrictions to 'importance' in Fields of Misery, but being able to confirm it for The Forsaken Woods would verify my theory of there being a fundamental difference between small blocks and medium blocks.
100% sure no But I do have high confidence based on the number of runs that I've done. If people discover otherwise I would definitely encourage them to share their findings.
Right. Well, I would strongly recommend the use of more colors. ;3 Interested in trying this it out with my info for Fields of Misery with whatever maps you can find online? I never overlayed a grid, so as far as I'm aware, the blocks in the larger area of FoM isn't as cleanly aligned as TFW and TWH both are.
Sure if we can find more screenshots. I was not fortunate enough to explore that area first-hand, so it will be hard for me to correlate in-game tiles with their map overhead appearance.
Sure if we can find more screenshots. I was not fortunate enough to explore that area first-hand, so it will be hard for me to correlate in-game tiles with their map overhead appearance.
Well, in game screenshots should typically show the relevant minimap information within the screenshot ;3 I didn't take any SS's but I did outline the block locations and the spawn possibilities in my topic.
I've been doing a lot of Den of the Fallen 'runs' myself, and I've seen it spawn in at LEAST three different tiles, so you may want to update the main post :P.
I've come across Jailers and Wallers, but so far, no luck with Molten, which is the main reason I've been doing the runs :P.
I've been doing a lot of Den of the Fallen 'runs' myself, and I've seen it spawn in at LEAST three different tiles, so you may want to update the main post :P.
There are at most five tiles where you could get the Den. What do you mean?
Edit: ok let me clarify: the Den can spawn in 1 of 5 non-path tiles, or 1 of the 2 event tiles.
I lost a 13 Demon Hunter whilst alt-tabbed checking this page (Stupid on my behalf), and almost a 13 Barb when I encountered a magical pack of Molten Plague Carriers - The wonders of HC
I decided to take a closer look at the map generation for The Weeping Hollow and I found that there is a fairly simple generation process behind it. Once you understand how the tiles are placed it becomes obvious how to use that for efficient farming purposes. One of the reasons behind this was because I had recently discovered that the second level of the Den of the Fallen was a place were you could still find higher level loot drop as well as monster affixes that normally don't spawn in the playable beta.
After Beta Patch 14, players were able to breech past the Cemetery of the Forsaken gate and reported seeing new elite monster affixes and higher level loot (amulets/rings). Apparently these things can still be found on elite Plague Carriers (a green version of the Carrion Bats) on the second level of the Den of the Fallen. My guess is they increased their monster level so we're finding Jailer, Vortex, Waller, etc affixes spawn on them and supposedly rings should drop too.
The Weeping Hollow is an area that will always have the same border size, but there are several tiles inside it that are actively swapped around on a grid (white are active, red are non-path event tiles):
Here's a labeled comparison of some generation:
* : Haedrigs' Apprentice's Hut
x/y, m/n : variations on path tiles
b/c : variations on filler tiles
So basically, if we ignore the tiles occupied by the path, there can only be 5 non-path varying tiles. Two of those are used as filler (labeled 'b' & 'c'), and one is reserved for Haedrigs' Apprentice's Hut (labeled '*'), leaving exactly two tiles for interesting things - aka, "Event Tiles".
There are 10 different "Event Tiles" that the game picks for you on generation. Those following the beta may have seen these before:
Open Grave / Open Grave (trapped version)
Hanging Tree / Hanging Tree (trapped version)
Four tombstones / Defiled Grave (elite version)
Abandoned Cart / Abandoned Cart with Rotting Corpses
Corpse Field / Den of the Fallen
What does this mean for farming the Den of the Fallen? Well from what we know now, the Den of the Fallen can only appear on two of the 5 possible tiles (shaded red above). So take the Northwest gate from New Tristram, head left and up, and hit those first four in the "L" shape. If you haven't seen two Event Tiles yet, head Northeast to the last red tile and you're done. Better than crawling the borders of the map. Happy Hunting!
Groups in Public Games - Divide and be Conquered
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I'm guessing that it's a little less risky in a group of four, but even then, probably only for a few more levels.
I'm talking about first characters, of course. Characters that are being fed gear and gold by higher-level characters can probably get by without everyone sticking together for a bit farther into the game.
My current motto for group play in Diablo III is "divide and be conquered".
He means that if 1 person leaves group of 3, the 2 people left grouped together will still die if they encounter hard mobs. The single person doesn't stand a chance.If there's a group of 4 and 1 person leaves, the group of 3 still has a chance to survive.
This.
And again, we're talking about two things that vary a lot: the speed at which your specific party can deal with regular enemies, and the degree of uptick in difficulty when you go from regular enemies to champions. The variance is on the skill of the players, and the affixes on the enemies. I'd guess that in some cases, a group of three players (in a game of four, where the fourth is away) are going to get along just fine for pack after pack after pack, albeit much slower than if their comrade was with them. And in other cases, those three players are going to rapidly die to the first pack they encounter.
Why? The answer will be their gear, or their mix of chosen skills, or the fact that the game happened to roll a pack of champs with lightning creeping all over the area, etc. etc.
For this small area, and for a small range of path lengths (likely a single value for this area), it ends up make certain tiles candidates only for path, only for event, or a candidate for both. As an area gets larger, the path length may vary more, it will be a lot less likely that any tiles are event-only.
Also, uber-efficient farming may not have anything to do with events... I never paid enough attention to really know, but I suspect champion packs can spawn on path tiles as well as non-path. If random champ packs are the primary farming target, predicting path vs. empty/event tile might not have any effect on real farming efficiency (which I think is a good thing).
I will say, I didn't notice the differences in the path's tiling, but that's because I didn't see anything entertaining on the path, ever. :3 I do feel you have much better descriptions in place for the different event blocks, though. And your info of variants corresponds 100% to mine, though I hadn't gone as far as to observe that, say, the swamp and the Den wouldn't both spawn.
As for amulets and higher level affixes spawning there, I'm surprised they kept it as such. I remember -that- from really early in the beta. It's where I found my first amulet around patch 5 or 8 or something. Since no one had mentioned that peculiarity for a while, I figured they reduced their 'level' back down to average.
That could certainly be possible for higher difficulties, but the path tile locations are fixed, and the medium event blocks are fixed in the overall grid as well. There's different types of configurations they use for the overworlds, and I'm wondering how random / possibly confusing the Desert area will be.
Elites can spawn anywhere, just about. Totally unrelated to most block placement/variants. There's a few events that specifically spawn elites, quest-or-otherwise. The Secluded Grove is a highly farmable one because it's a guaranteed Resplendent Chest -and- an elite.
100% sure no But I do have high confidence based on the number of runs that I've done. If people discover otherwise I would definitely encourage them to share their findings.
I don't believe these are mutually exclusive actually, as I may have otherwise implied by placing their screeshots together.
Well, in game screenshots should typically show the relevant minimap information within the screenshot ;3 I didn't take any SS's but I did outline the block locations and the spawn possibilities in my topic.
I've come across Jailers and Wallers, but so far, no luck with Molten, which is the main reason I've been doing the runs :P.
There are at most five tiles where you could get the Den. What do you mean?
Edit: ok let me clarify: the Den can spawn in 1 of 5 non-path tiles, or 1 of the 2 event tiles.
Fun, but dangerous ;D
Oh good! I was trying to confirm if my suspicions on the rings were true. Glad to hear you got one - and a pretty nice one too.