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Just a question: is there any required AS breakpoints? Thanks for the guide!

Quote from bciddiaz»

Just a question: is there any required AS breakpoints? Thanks for the guide!

I have re-done the guide and included some information about IAS in the other tips section. I am enjoying big damage gains from targeting 39% worn AS and trying to keep RCR at 39%. Also, i recommend Reapers Wraps over Strongarms to help sustain hatred,

Having a blast still. gr 103 nonseason (p1400something but missing omptimal rolls on some gear), and now atm I'm #19 seasonal solo dh with a gr95 in 13min p760. the build also has someone at rank #9 solo dh.

I'm using frostburn cubed and maelstrom variant because I feel like its a lot easier to survive both seasonal and nonseasonal characters than physical/garwulf thanks to the cc and bit extra aoe damage in packs.

one thing to note is that the build is quite good with znec/rathma comps using reapers, as my nonseasonal toon has done a sub11min gr 110 3man with znec/rathma/dh.

For me in about 100-150 greater rifts ive run with it solo and in groups with friends, zeis is normally better imo. sometimes stricken is useful for the RG fight solo but i think dmkt even mentioned in bnet forums somewhere that it causes you to overall lose 1-2 grs worth of damage since your aoe clear is weaker without zeis.

On the other hand, for group play stricken is a useful option at GR 100+ for elite/RG fights when your other dps are aoe focused or if you simply do the RG fight better. (in our handful of zmonk zbarb channelwiz n6m4 i was stricken at gr100+ even though wiz was also a mixed dps build - we didnt run enough attempts to see how high we could push as at that time both dps were low geared about 2mil sheet damage but we were doing sub5min 95s) (in my 3man gr 110 with znec rathma n6m4 i went zeis because of how high our damage was on RG fight already).

I am in agreement, for 100-105, Zeis has been the winner. At some point, Stricken might win out. If you go the Fire/Loaded for Bear route, with high attack speed and Cindercoat in cube, only then you may see gains using Stricken in high GR. (2.5 breakpoint), which is hard to sustain with cold/physical + reapers wraps.

sentries do proc AD,and you need AD on your gear just wanted to say that cuz it will make lot of ppl to gear wrong items and stats.

Quote from DevMirdi»

sentries do proc AD,and you need AD on your gear just wanted to say that cuz it will make lot of ppl to gear wrong items and stats.

This is correct and I have modified the guide accordingly. With my own eyes, i have recorded and reviewed footage demonstrating area damage being applied to rockets fired by Sentries. I wrote about it on the D3 forum: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20759223097#post-8
Thank you for your feedback.

Quote from Vlammenzee»

I'm getting to a point now i'm really starting to struggle with progression past gr100 solo (lacking damage), and i'm unsure what the biggest issue is of my gear, and what i should really focus on to get more damage out of it, survivability is fine really for 100-102, it's just a lack of damage.

PS. don't have cold on amulet yet (reforged like 50 times alrdy), so i know that's part of more damage.

https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Vlammenzee-2190/hero/54869996

https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/vlammenzee-2190/Vlammenzee/54869996

Would appreciate a glare over my build.

Your setup and overall GR clear is on par considering your paragon / time played. You'll either need to fish, or, play more aggressively to move up the ranks. You may find Area Damage beneficial on gloves / quiver -- only if you're not running out of hatred.

You know, Maelstrom really shines when there are 15+ enemies on screen -- so to maximize damage make sure you herd enemies and keep dragging them towards the next pack -- always move forward and keep trying to survive. Even if you cannot see your targets, trust that your cluster arrow rockets are making contact.

I've also found that occasionally skipping elites (juggs especially) can push the bar faster. (like when you are at the end of a map, and there is an elite/champ waiting by the exit -- no other enemies around).

Try to kill weak enemies with Rain of Vengeance as it is the only way to create oculus circles -- which is a huge booster if you can reach them in time.

One last tip, try the other 2 elements, physical & fire may work better, if you have the gear for them.

I like this build or I should say the alternative item one that you state for my play which is on the Xbox 1. The Wraps of Clarity with Evasive Fire (Focus rune) greatly helps me manage my hatred as well as buffs my defense nicely! I tried to play with your skills above but found myself constantly running out of hatred which was more annoying than managing the Vengence timer which is one of the main reasons I am going to this build. Here are a couple of things that I have noted regarding how this compares to my M6 Multishot build that I have for s12 which is what I played until stumbling on this build.

1) Maelstrom rune is spectacular to watch. I personally appreciate good/fun graphics in this game. And I find these more fun to watch than a screen full of multishot arrows. Perhaps that is because I have seen a zillion multishot arrows in my days but there is something about Maelstrom that I like to watch.

2) The build with wraps of clarity is very tanky with all the DR. I don't know how this will handicap me in terms of max GR but I like to play as if I am a HC character because that is all I use to play exclusively in D2 on the PC. There is something silly about dieing, I personally think that a death in the GR should end the Rift but that is just me.

3) Curious about best end game stat priorities. If you could list the end game stats by total to aim for here that would be great. Like if you could handpick your gear, what would your end game stats look like? How much Reduced Resource Cost would you have for example. Assuming your rolling with the alternative game gear stated above.

4) I run out of Tumble pretty quickly. I guess this is what it is and perhaps I don't have enough RRC yet but man, it stinks running out in the middle of an elite back when slapping down turrets!

5) I don't fully get the BotD proc. Do my turrets shots trigger this effect since they are cold based? Does Maelstrom trigger this? Do I really need to place my turret on the guys to get this?

6) How important is the Endless Walk set for damage? Does it literally double my total damage? I was wondering how the Elusive ring plus a Hellfire ring might work. The Elusive ring would add 60% DR making me almost unkillable and then get an extra passive skill with the Hellfire. What I don't understand is how many GR's would I be sacrificing by doing this?

Thanks for the build and I appreciate any dialogue I get on the above questions/statement. Does anyone else here play on console and find having to use the Evasive Fire to make this work. It's so hard to aim with a controller that I think its the only way I can do this.

Hello, thanks for your kind words. I had a blast exploring these builds when they both were upgraded. I have spent more hours playing Multishot Marauder and believe it can be as strong, if not stronger than N6M4 once figured out -- but i will do my best to answer your questions on how to make the most of N6M4.

I have played on Xbox, i get aiming challenges, only being able to shoot in the direction you walk, how it may affect endless walk bonus, etc. N6M4 is probably the better console build because of that alone.

Regarding the optimal stats heres what i recommend for Cold/Physical

45% RCR

21% CDR

0% Attack Speed (2.0 sheet, if i recall)

90% Area Dmg (2 items)

130% Sentry / 30% Cluster Arrow

54 Discipline

Since you are firing at range with Zei's, you need to place the polar station sentry on top of the pack and elite/champ to get BotT/Cull. I pull a bunch of trash elite into an open area, and try to connect the sentries into a bigger circle, slightly overlapping them, then i do my best to walk around my kill site, or sometimes i have to vault back through it. It's not perfect, but it does let you get the most out of those damage when slowed effects. Frostburn cubed might trigger the bonus on hit, i haven't confirmed.

i die from running out of discipline too, the only way to mitigate it is to walk more, you might feel compelled to check on the health by re-engaging the pack, don't do this, just keep firing from afar.

i cant recommend playing without endless walk, it is multiplicative damage and trading it for DR and an extra passive is a big drop in power (4 GR). Plus, if you are having resource issues, you'll have even more with elusive ring because you'll be more stationary which means more attacks overall.

Thanks for the feedback... I will use that when trying to perfect my gear and push to get above GR 100 with this character.

Question - do you prefer the cold or physical build? I see that you actually say that the cold build is more defensive above. How is that possible with the physical build getting the Garwulf in the cube? I would have thought the physical build would be the most defensive as it has the most toughness I would think. Thanks

Quote from dmkt»

Hello, thanks for your kind words. I had a blast exploring these builds when they both were upgraded. I have spent more hours playing Multishot Marauder and believe it can be as strong, if not stronger than N6M4 once figured out -- but i will do my best to answer your questions on how to make the most of N6M4.

I have played on Xbox, i get aiming challenges, only being able to shoot in the direction you walk, how it may affect endless walk bonus, etc. N6M4 is probably the better console build because of that alone.

Regarding the optimal stats heres what i recommend for Cold/Physical

45-48% RCR

21% CDR

0% Attack Speed (2.0 sheet, if i recall)

90% Area Dmg (2 items)

130% Sentry / 30% Cluster Arrow

54 Discipline

Since you are firing at range with Zei's, you need to place the polar station sentry on top of the pack and elite/champ to get BotT/Cull. I pull a bunch of trash elite into an open area, and try to connect the sentries into a bigger circle, slightly overlapping them, then i do my best to walk around my kill site, or sometimes i have to vault back through it. It's not perfect, but it does let you get the most out of those damage when slowed effects. Frostburn cubed might trigger the bonus on hit, i haven't confirmed.

i die from running out of discipline too, the only way to mitigate it is to walk more, you might feel compelled to check on the health by re-engaging the pack, don't do this, just keep firing from afar.

i cant recommend playing without endless walk, it is multiplicative damage and trading it for DR and an extra passive is a big drop in power (4 GR). Plus, if you are having resource issues, you'll have even more with elusive ring because you'll be more stationary which means more attacks overall.

So you would not spec any hatred regen? I have a hard time understanding which is better between hatred regen and reduced resource cost. I have never done the math to see which one gets more shots off.

Also, where does the 54 discipline come from and why is that needed in this build?

Few topics for discussion.

1) I want to focus on a cold or physical build. Which do you think can push higher and why? You say above that cold has more survive ability but that confuses me as physical uses Garwulf in the cube.

2) I don't see you calling out any hatred regeneration in your ideal stats you listed for me. Did you for that? What is better, resource reduction or hatred regen or a mix?

3) Thinking of ditching the passive skill Awareness for Thrill of the Hunt. This enables me to proc BotT without having to get close which makes surviving easier and my range for Zei maxed for damage. Also enables me to swap out the polar rune for the guardian rune adding an additional 25% DR. Thoughts?

4) you list 54 discipline as a stat to get, why?

Thanks!

Quote from KeyserSoze15»

Few topics for discussion.

1) I want to focus on a cold or physical build. Which do you think can push higher and why? You say above that cold has more survive ability but that confuses me as physical uses Garwulf in the cube.

2) I don't see you calling out any hatred regeneration in your ideal stats you listed for me. Did you for that? What is better, resource reduction or hatred regen or a mix?

3) Thinking of ditching the passive skill Awareness for Thrill of the Hunt. This enables me to proc BotT without having to get close which makes surviving easier and my range for Zei maxed for damage. Also enables me to swap out the polar rune for the guardian rune adding an additional 25% DR. Thoughts?

4) you list 54 discipline as a stat to get, why?

Thanks!

Here's how to look at Hatred Regen vs RCR

Attacks Per Second = 2.0
Hatred Per Attack = 40
Hatred Per Second = 80
Manticore RCR = 50%
Hatred Per Second Before RCR = 40

Let's now factor the essential rolls (Paragon, Topaz in Helm and Weapon Roll)

@29.125% (PTW) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 11.65
@34.795% (PTW + 1 RCR Item) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 13.92
@40.001% (PTW + 2 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 16.01
@44.811% (PTW + 3 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 17.92
@49.227% (PTW + 4 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 19.69

So as you can see, there are diminishing returns on RCR, but you're still netting over 1.5 h/s saved per additional affix with 8% RCR.
Now here's the part that gets harder to quantify, the player also has to deploy 5 sentries per minute at 20 hatred each (100 hatred total per minute / or 1.66 hatred per second). For the justification of hatred / per second rolls, the player isn't attacking 100% of the time.

Let's assume the player attacks 75% of the time:

900 Total Second in Grift

675 second attacking @ 49.227% RCR & 0 hatred / sec = 13291 hatred saved | 0 extra hatred regen = 13291 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 44.881% RCR & 1.5 hatred / sec = 12096 hatred saved | 1350 extra hatred regen = 13446 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 40.001% RCR & 3 hatred / sec = 10807 hatred saved | 2700 extra hatred regen = 13506 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 34.795% RCR & 4.5 hatred / sec = 9396 hatred saved | 4050 extra hatred regen = 13446 total hatred

Now, if you're counting the sentry spend... which you still have to maintain full time --- that's an extra 1500+ hatred you must come up with in a full duration grift. For every 5% sheet RCR you save 75 total hatred. As you can see you're in the best position at the 45% RCR mark. RCR helps with discipline conservation too.

Still RCR and hatred regen are interchangable -- RCR provides more attacks when the player is not running away from enemies. But hatred regen actually helps the player when they are out of hatred, RCR does not.

Quote from KeyserSoze15»

Few topics for discussion.

1) I want to focus on a cold or physical build. Which do you think can push higher and why? You say above that cold has more survive ability but that confuses me as physical uses Garwulf in the cube.

2) I don't see you calling out any hatred regeneration in your ideal stats you listed for me. Did you for that? What is better, resource reduction or hatred regen or a mix?

3) Thinking of ditching the passive skill Awareness for Thrill of the Hunt. This enables me to proc BotT without having to get close which makes surviving easier and my range for Zei maxed for damage. Also enables me to swap out the polar rune for the guardian rune adding an additional 25% DR. Thoughts?

4) you list 54 discipline as a stat to get, why?

Thanks!

Last answers: I think you'll like the tankiness of Physical better w/ Garwulf over Cubed Frostburn. Losing Awareness is more practical with Physical. I'd avoid the Guardian rune, you're not going to sit in the crowd and take a beating. You want polar station and steady aim, nightstalker or blood vengeance passives. Base that choice on your hatred situation. I'd run a BP that has melee/ranged resist in the secondary slot, leaving 2 max disc rolls in your weapon slots (12 + 12) = 54 max discipline.

Quote from undefined »

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Here's how to look at Hatred Regen vs RCR

Attacks Per Second = 2.0
Hatred Per Attack = 40
Hatred Per Second = 80
Manticore RCR = 50%
Hatred Per Second Before RCR = 40

Let's now factor the essential rolls (Paragon, Topaz in Helm and Weapon Roll)

@29.125% (PTW) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 11.65
@34.795% (PTW + 1 RCR Item) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 13.92
@40.001% (PTW + 2 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 16.01
@44.811% (PTW + 3 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 17.92
@49.227% (PTW + 4 RCR Items) | Hatred/Sec Saved = 19.69

So as you can see, there are diminishing returns on RCR, but you're still netting over 1.5 h/s saved per additional affix with 8% RCR.
Now here's the part that gets harder to quantify, the player also has to deploy 5 sentries per minute at 20 hatred each (100 hatred total per minute / or 1.66 hatred per second). For the justification of hatred / per second rolls, the player isn't attacking 100% of the time.

Let's assume the player attacks 75% of the time:

900 Total Second in Grift

675 second attacking @ 49.227% RCR & 0 hatred / sec = 13291 hatred saved | 0 extra hatred regen = 13291 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 44.881% RCR & 1.5 hatred / sec = 12096 hatred saved | 1350 extra hatred regen = 13446 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 40.001% RCR & 3 hatred / sec = 10807 hatred saved | 2700 extra hatred regen = 13506 total hatred
675 second attacking @ 34.795% RCR & 4.5 hatred / sec = 9396 hatred saved | 4050 extra hatred regen = 13446 total hatred

Now, if you're counting the sentry spend... which you still have to maintain full time --- that's an extra 1500+ hatred you must come up with in a full duration grift. For every 5% sheet RCR you save 75 total hatred. As you can see you're in the best position at the 45% RCR mark. RCR helps with discipline conservation too.

Still RCR and hatred regen are interchangable -- RCR provides more attacks when the player is not running away from enemies. But hatred regen actually helps the player when they are out of hatred, RCR does not.

Wow, that was very informative! Thanks for sharing that. I guess I will roll for about as much RCR as I can find. As I stated above, I will be using a generator as I really like the extra defense and I can't stand waiting around for more hatred. If I can at least hit a button to generate it on command and get 50 DR for doing so I will take it. Thanks!

Quote from dmkt»

Quote from KeyserSoze15»

Few topics for discussion.

1) I want to focus on a cold or physical build. Which do you think can push higher and why? You say above that cold has more survive ability but that confuses me as physical uses Garwulf in the cube.

2) I don't see you calling out any hatred regeneration in your ideal stats you listed for me. Did you for that? What is better, resource reduction or hatred regen or a mix?

3) Thinking of ditching the passive skill Awareness for Thrill of the Hunt. This enables me to proc BotT without having to get close which makes surviving easier and my range for Zei maxed for damage. Also enables me to swap out the polar rune for the guardian rune adding an additional 25% DR. Thoughts?

4) you list 54 discipline as a stat to get, why?

Thanks!

Last answers: I think you'll like the tankiness of Physical better w/ Garwulf over Cubed Frostburn. Losing Awareness is more practical with Physical. I'd avoid the Guardian rune, you're not going to sit in the crowd and take a beating. You want polar station and steady aim, nightstalker or blood vengeance passives. Base that choice on your hatred situation. I'd run a BP that has melee/ranged resist in the secondary slot, leaving 2 max disc rolls in your weapon slots (12 + 12) = 54 max discipline.

Thanks again for the feedback. I will give the physical build a look this weekend. I tend to really like the graphics of the cold build with all the rockets flying everywhere! If I feel the Phys build is superior I will likely switch. If not I will stick with Cold build. Thanks again.

Both are really good. When you start to push, the fastest 'player-made' progress seems to be gained from killing whites. Drag the elites to the pylons, or, just leave them behind if they aren't following. Don't stop to kill them unless they are at 30% life or lower.

Ok I don’t get how physical can be as powerful as cold when physical releases 2 rockets for 600 each and cold fires 3 for 450 plus frost urns adds more damage. How is 3x450 > 2x600 let alone the frostburn add?

The comparison is:

Rockets Multitarget

2x7 = 14

3x5.5 = 16.5

However, the single target damage on the first/physical is higher. Especially when multiplied by ballistics.

Rockets Single Target

2x7 vs 2x5.5

Cubing frostburn balances it out, but you lose toughness.

The proof is in the gameplay, try both builds and see which one clears faster, i tend to get better clear times with physical. It could just be due to a better rolled travelers pledge and fewer deaths.