DiabloFans

Quote from "Skaarj" »

you are trying to be funny right? he never said that diablo = rain, ever.

Yes, he did. He made the screenshot with extra RAIN in it. That's a statement that adding rain makes the game more Diabloesque. He also said that a game is more immersive if it is dark. So I suppose he feels like rain helps a game become more immersive,...which is funny. I guess I'm not trying to be funny. It is just funny how people think sometimes once you lay out what they are really saying for all to see.

Adding more rain is an environment choice for a certain part of the game. More rain does not equal more Diablo.

At that part of the games story does it really require more rain? Does more rain make a game more immersive?

Such trivial complaints.

Of course people are entitled to complain about the look of a game, however demanding changes be made based on uninformed statements about the current art direction is something that many feel is wrong.

Quote from "VegasRage" »

Creepsville no that is called marketing 101, and Blizzard forgot it. I am more than qualified to make that statement but I’m not going to wave my flag here about that. You would be hard pressed to find a savvy entrepreneur who would disagree with the point I made.

I used to run my own online store. I know a bit about this stuff. And I don't think that Blizzard needed to research the market in order to create a sequel to their own IP. I think that is a silly statement to make, as it implies that Blizzard shapes their games around current trends - when all they've ever done with their games is stuck to a simple, unintimidating, easy to pick up game that even Mom can enjoy playing.

I expect Diablo will sell very well, too many have waited too long for it to come out and there are a load of WOW fans who will identify with the more cartoony characters;

The characters in D3 aren't cartoony. They are stylized.

Quote from "angelmaz" »

Sorry there have been purposefully malicious and ignorant trolls ruining your thread man. To some of these people even mentioning the art direction makes one worthy of their misplaced contempt and hatred.

You know that apologizing for trolls in a thread doesn't mean you're not a troll, right?

Quote from "VegasRage" »

Creepsville no one can accurately claim it’s a “vocal minority of complainers” anymore than they can claim it’s a majority. There has been no scientific poll

You know what's strange? You made the claim that you know what "fans want" - when you have no poll or study backing up your claim either. The difference between my claim and yours is that I will have game sales backing up what I said - and you won't.

Yes Blizzard does make games for a niche of "fans”, it is the core niche of fans that buy the Diablo books, spend $300 on a statue, purchase Diablo when it was first released and then turn around and bought the battle chest, later. Since word of mouth is the still best form of advertizing, you don’t improve business by alienating your most loyal customers. They are the ones who will inspire people to buy D3 for the first time (maybe even get them into gaming) to those who would otherwise not pay attention to the game at all because of their excitement for the game.

Thanks for the theory. Now for the truth: Blizzard makes games for people. They don't sit around thinking of how best to please a niche of fans - if they did - they would have changed the art direction based on the petition of complainers.

Quote from "Umpa65" »

The way you came off is as if those dumb fans are not good at being fans of Diablo because of their lack of ability to as you put it "suspend disbelief". I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm telling you how it comes off. It's like analyzing a literary work. You can get soo many things from it that might not actually be there by the intent of the author.

I already told you that you misinterpreted my post, and clarified it for you, and here you are still repeating your misinterpretation. I don't know how to make it any more clear.

I told you to stop putting words in my mouth and here you are, arguing that I implied something and then going off about analyzing literature - as if that even applies here. If I say "I didn't say that. here's what I meant" and then you continue in your next post to say "You did say that" then you are putting words in my mouth. There's no argument to be made. It is what it is. You are saying I implied/said something that I didn't. End of story.

Read above. You even say now that I am saying that people are "dumb fans and not good at being fans of Diablo". That is putting words into my mouth. There is no arguing this.

I said, if one chooses to not suspend their disbelief they are going to have ridiculous complaints and fail to appreciate the fantasy that has been created. So if Blizzard succeeds in making a perfectly good fantasy game and someone is complaining about things like the size of shoulder pads and ambient lighting then they are obviously not submitting fully to the fantasy and they are keeping themselves from appreciating it for what it is. It makes their arguments for change seem unwarranted and picky when we look at the situation this way.

But you didn't get that. I have clarified it over and over now. I suppose I hope that you can figure it out this time but I won't count on it. So now what do you think of my point?

Quote from "Umpa65" »

Rofl, its not making a connection that isn't there! Its on you for not taking into consideration how I would respond.

Saying that I said that people are being bad fans and then connecting things that aren't there to come to a "logical" conclusion that I am claiming that people are "bad fans" IS connecting things that aren't there. It is what it is. Stop trying to rationalize it. Stop trying to worm out of it. I think you simply didn't get what I posted and that's not a bad thing,... until you start putting words into my mouth.

And thats just your opinion, it's not common sense, maybe to you but not to others. I dont think Fantasy games qualify in a category for common sense. Some people, a lot of people feel that it's up to the designers and that there are graphic designers for a reason. On one end yes it is a fantasy game and a lot of it depends on the interest of the player but at the other end, this isn't D&D the board game. Its a VIDEO game, the ambiance brings so much to the game that people have a right to complain if they feel the graphics and lighting do not suite the game no matter how monotonous the complaints get.

This is what I said. I will explain it to you as if you are a child so that you will understand:
If you aren't willing to suspend your disbelief then you can't appreciate the effects of a piece of fantasy media.

I said this in reference to people complaining that the green light in the game play video "has no source". The light works. To question it shows a distinct pigheadedness to question things just for the sake of complaining and a total lack of suspending disbelief.

EDIT: And suspending your disbelief when viewing a movie or fantasy is common sense. It's something we have all agreed upon as a race. Either you do it or you don't. And look at how much thread we just wasted because you misunderstood me and went off about how I need to back up my opinion...ha. Just let me have my opinion on people who are so close minded that they can't stand the sight of creepy green lighting in a dungeon.

Quote from "Umpa65" »

Yes i do. You implied it, and if you didn't intend to then you should have taken into consideration how someone else would take it. The logic there would be "Not doing Job as fan"="bad fan". So go ahead and overreact to what everyone says. Rofl, your so damn hostile towards just about everybody.

You gave an opinion with no basis, you never explained "why"

"You this and you that! You did this! You implied this!"

Stop.

I didn't imply a thing.

Stop trying to rationalize a connection that isn't there. Don't think that using the word "logic" gives you a leg to stand on.

I don't have to back up what common sense gives us. Part of any fantasy is suspending your disbelief. It's up to the viewer to decide to do so or not.

So let's get back on topic instead of you trying to cover that you can't comprehend what I'm typing most of the time.

Quote from "Umpa65" »

This doesn't really make sense, it doesn't really make sense and isn't backed with reasoning on why.

Dont get me wrong i LOVE the direction of D3, but just b/cuz some don't like it right now doesn't mean that they are bad fans or "failing to do a job" what???

Reread what I said and read what you responded with. When did BAD FANS come up? Do you even think before you type shit like this?

Quote from "VegasRage" »

Oh they got the message now, knowing exactly what the complaint is and what the fans want. If they had just done a little market research they wouldn't had any backlash at all.

No matter what Blizzard does, there will always be a vocal minority of complainers that will be heard. Market research? How would spending a bunch of money to...research the market...lead to a game in which there was no backlash?

[/I]I think its pretty clear he and others didn't even bother asking or wondering what the fans wanted. In their defense a lot of the art look good but there is a very specific look and feel that Diablo has held for the last two games and it got lost in the game play demo.

First of all, Blizzard PAYS people to overlook forums for their games and they do take suggestions. They listen to their fans probably more than anyone else.

Secondly, the man even looked at the silly photoshopped screenshots and he even commented on them to explain to people why it doesn't work. I was amazed he did that. He went the extra mile and told people what was up.

In the end, Blizzard doesn't make their games for a niche of "fans". They make them for the love of making games. Blizzard doesn't need to venture out and ask people what they want to see in D3. It's their freakin' IP.

And perhaps the look of Diablo didn't get lost in the game demo, as much as it has evolved into something new and fresh for dungeon crawlers.

People are going to argue. Especially over this topic. There is no avoiding it. What were the other Art threads like?

What's sad is that a lot of people turn the discussion into "You do this! And you do that!" Look at angels posts above to me. He can't stop talking about me to even make a point...

People just need to wait until we see more of the game.

If the red and blue shots work then the green one does as well. I wonder what the green haters have to say about that...

It's just lighting. Questioning it's source, especially in a fantasy game, shows a willful intention to not suspend your disbelief and therefore you won't allow yourself to be immersed in the game. Blizzard didn't fail to do their job - you did. And if you can't suspend your disbelief then why are you so into fantasy games in the first place?

Quote from "angelmaz" »

Red is a color of evil. Greenish/blue, however, is a scooby doo tactic at best, and a direct WoW transfer at worst.

Authors throughout the ages, great authors, authors like William Shakespeare speak about the color green and it's reference to evil, poison, eeriness, and the like. It has always been this way and it will always stay this way. Certain greens evoke a sickly feeling when people see them. And what does angel do? He compares green lighting to scooby-doo.

Shows how much he knows about what he is saying.

We have a guy saying that making things green is a scooby doo "tactic" (whatever that means). And even went as far as to call it a "WoW transfer" as well when many, many, games use greenish lighting in their level designs.

Quote from "angelmaz" »

The main difference there is that there could be a light source outside of the church. I can't think of a single instance in Diablos 1 or 2 where unexplained lighting, without light sources no less(!), persists for any significant amount of time. Even in the den of evil shot, the light is coming from either the sun or heaven in the form of a beam; it originates somewhere off screen. The green light of the D3 dungeon is simply there.

Plus, red is the color of Diablo's magic, and the aura of any self-respecting demon.

See why you can't argue with these people?

He just compared D3's lighting to Diablo 1 and 2's - as if that makes some astute point.

And then he constantly sets a double standard as it's ok for Red light to show up because it's just Diablo's magic demon aura thingie...but green light is out of the question because...well because.

You can't convince someone that believes a game from 8-10 years ago is the final word on what a game can look like today. You can't convince someone that makes up rules about magic and auras that green light in a dungeon WORKS from a game design standpoint. He'll just make up some inane reason for why it doesn't work in his next post.