Iraq is in a CIVIL WAR. Nothing you or I or anyone can do will stop it. It has become religous in nature, and thus will continue untill something drastic occurs. Staying in Iraq and "Staying the course" is not that drastic happening that will end this civil war. Either we leave and let them fight it out or we stay and screw ourselves over worse. Either way, we have hurt our reputation in the Middle East even worse then it was before with this little escapade...
This doesn't really contribute much of anything to this topic, but I'd say that's probably the best way I've heard the situation explained :thumbsup:
Iraq is in a CIVIL WAR. Nothing you or I or anyone can do will stop it. It has become religous in nature, and thus will continue untill something drastic occurs. Staying in Iraq and "Staying the course" is not that drastic happening that will end this civil war. Either we leave and let them fight it out or we stay and screw ourselves over worse. Either way, we have hurt our reputation in the Middle East even worse then it was before with this little escapade...
explain yourself...give some credible sources. i dont see a civil war, i dont see news of an ARMY led by Iraqi generals fighting each other, define civil war for me.
and if you leave, the country and gov't can become corrupt and harbor more terrorists. i agree the rep with the ME is worse off than ever nowadays, but it has always been very tense over there since WW2 and the Cold war.
Are you talking to me or someone else?...
yes, you. not to offend you, but you dont know much about global terrorism in what you said. go and read about the new security dilemma.
Mac wants out just as badly as Obama. and their plans are very similar, the only guy who will withdraw immediately...is...no one.
lol yes Georgia is very backwoods in some areas...thank God i live in Atlanta!
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
This doesn't really contribute much of anything to this topic, but I'd say that's probably the best way I've heard the situation explained :thumbsup:
I simply put information out. It is up to them to absorb it...
Quote from "applesoffury" »
explain yourself...give some credible sources. i dont see a civil war, i dont see news of an ARMY led by Iraqi generals fighting each other, define civil war for me.
That is because not every civil war is like the American civil war with armies. The Kurds and Shi'ite's are fighting, not as armies, but as different factions. Generals and armies are not needed for a civil war.
Quote from "applesoffury" »
and if you leave, the country and gov't can become corrupt and harbor more terrorists. i agree the rep with the ME is worse off than ever nowadays, but it has always been very tense over there since WW2 and the Cold war.
Of course. The creation of the country of Isreal really pissed the entire Middle East off. And the fact that we back Isreal so much focuses there anger at us as well as Isreal, thus metaphorically waving a red cape infront of the bull.
Quote from "applesoffury" »
yes, you. not to offend you, but you dont know much about global terrorism in what you said. go and read about the new security dilemma.
Hehehe... Of course I don't...
Quote from "applesoffury" »
Mac wants out just as badly as Obama. and their plans are very similar, the only guy who will withdraw immediately...is...no one.
Of course not. That would upset the Christians and Jews too much, and that's not good.
Quote from "applesoffury" »
lol yes Georgia is very backwoods in some areas...thank God i live in Atlanta!
he was raised by a single mother for a breif period, moved to jakarta, then his mother dies. he goes to oxy then xfers to colombia. thats a hard working man. and im pretty sure jakarta is not northern by any means. hes not rags to riches but he wasnt like Bush or other prez candidates u see; well off at an early age. but in McCains defense, he did goto vietnam.
good point, but really what the hell does this have anything to do with electing him is what im asking, politicaly he is a made man, created by tony rezco and Emil Jones. While rezco funded, Emil got support and told him what bills to support/make.
Also in jakarta he lived in one of the most up-scale area's you could, though not u.s standers across, look im not taking anything away from the hardships of living with out a father, and having to live with your grandparents most of the time, im just saying he has had more oppertunities then most people, and for his campaign to use that as a wasy for him to connect to poor/middle class voters is pure b.s. While as a community organizer in the southside he made more money than my dad at the time.
good point, but really what the hell does this have anything to do with electing him is what im asking, politicaly he is a made man, created by tony rezco and Emil Jones. While rezco funded, Emil got support and told him what bills to support/make.
Also in jakarta he lived in one of the most up-scale area's you could, though not u.s standers across, look im not taking anything away from the hardships of living with out a father, and having to live with your grandparents most of the time, im just saying he has had more oppertunities then most people, and for his campaign to use that as a wasy for him to connect to poor/middle class voters is pure b.s. While as a community organizer in the southside he made more money than my dad at the time.
his grandparents were not well off by any means, and hes worked for all his money and connections. he also gave up many higher paying jobs in the DC area to go work as a public organizer. as for more opportunities, he didnt fall into those opportunities, getting into colombia is alot harder than you put it to be, harvard law just doesnt hand out invitations. hes worked for it all. and by comparison to other candidates, he had it rougher than all of em. but for him to do that, its just a gimmick to get votes, i mean who wouldnt do that? it shows hes a hard working man who can lead a country and that he "knows" where hes come from. i still say Obama is a better man for the job, but in a time like this Mac could win because of his military prowess.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
his grandparents were not well off by any means, and hes worked for all his money and connections. he also gave up many higher paying jobs in the DC area to go work as a public organizer. as for more opportunities, he didnt fall into those opportunities, getting into colombia is alot harder than you put it to be, harvard law just doesnt hand out invitations. hes worked for it all. and by comparison to other candidates, he had it rougher than all of em. but for him to do that, its just a gimmick to get votes, i mean who wouldnt do that? it shows hes a hard working man who can lead a country and that he "knows" where hes come from. i still say Obama is a better man for the job, but in a time like this Mac could win because of his military prowess.
Ok since we obviosly disagree and dont see eye to eye on that point *though obama was a made-man* How does all that, his 'past' some how make him better for the job than mccain?
Also i just want to make the point, everything he has done has been building up for him to be a polition, it's all a plan, to get heavily paid as a community organizer, to join his radical church in the southside, for him to meet with tony rezco and emil johns to help make his political uprising, and now with his personality alone he's about the be president...dosent really sound like 'hard work' to me.
He said we could have military pressence in iraq for a 100 years just like we do in japan, or korea.
And also tell me where obama is this suddenly great person on the econemy, raise the capital gains tax why dont ja.
Japan wasn't in a civil war though, and we could help them. And Korea...don't get me started on that blunder...
McCain knows one thing, war. And we can only hope that we don't get another war monger in office.
On the other side of the coin though, Obama will be assassinated. America is too racist and sexist to have Obama or Hillary be president for a full term. Hate to see him go, but America is America...
Either way, we WILL pull out of Iraq. There is nothing we can do for them (Never was anything we could do for them) and the American people will hopefully understand that sooner rather then later...
Japan wasn't in a civil war though, and we could help them. And Korea...don't get me started on that blunder...
McCain knows one thing, war. And we can only hope that we don't get another war monger in office.
On the other side of the coin though, Obama will be assassinated. America is too racist and sexist to have Obama or Hillary be president for a full term. Hate to see him go, but America is America...
Either way, we WILL pull out of Iraq. There is nothing we can do for them (Never was anything we could do for them) and the American people will hopefully understand that sooner rather then later...
I was actually hoping for edwards, and i agree we will be out of iraq at one point, we just dont know what's going happen until the time we do get out, if things to turn out good we may have some military pressence there for sometime.
Also i somewhat doubt assination, but it's always possible, i just hope none of them pick a dick cheney type vp.
I was actually hoping for edwards, and i agree we will be out of iraq at one point, we just dont know what's going happen until the time we do get out, if things to turn out good we may have some military pressence there for sometime.
And if we keep military pressence there then there will be more 9/11's. We are not viewed as liberators by the Middle East. (Sure, there are a good number of Iraqi's that view us as such, but not the entire Middle East.) We are viewed as oppressors, hence why we have so many insurgents. We are not the good guys in this situation. As much as I hate saying it, because I love America, but America's not the good guys.
Quote from "The_wind" »
Also i somewhat doubt assination, but it's always possible, i just hope none of them pick a dick cheney type vp.
Oh please, the average person is afraid of anything that isn't like them. Obama will most likely win the election. And Obama will most likely not finish his first term. If he does, he will not finish his second. Some stupid dipshit will see to that.
And if we keep military pressence there then there will be more 9/11's. We are not viewed as liberators by the Middle East. (Sure, there are a good number of Iraqi's that view us as such, but not the entire Middle East.) We are viewed as oppressors, hence why we have so many insurgents. We are not the good guys in this situation. As much as I hate saying it, because I love America, but America's not the good guys.
Oh please, the average person is afraid of anything that isn't like them. Obama will most likely win the election. And Obama will most likely not finish his first term. If he does, he will not finish his second. Some stupid dipshit will see to that.
it does always seem when someone new comes along or some one diffrent there's always some type of attempt. But yes i agree we need to stay out of the middle east all together, that's also over-stretching us. But Were in too deep at this point, i think the olny thing we can do is try to get out, or atleast not do any more damage.
it does always seem when someone new comes along or some one diffrent there's always some type of attempt. But yes i agree we need to stay out of the middle east all together, that's also over-stretching us. But Were in too deep at this point, i think the olny thing we can do is try to get out, or atleast not do any more damage.
The thing is, every second we are over there, we do damage. Damage to the country. Damage to the region. And yes, especially damage to our own reputation. The only thing we can do is pull out. That is the only intellegent option. Anything else would only make things worse.
McCain, like Bush, wants to "stay the course". Staying the course will result in many more 9/11's, untill September eleventh will seem like nothing in comparison.
Obama is not the best canindate, but hes a hell of alot better then McCain.
actually obama at one time did support the war, though at this time he is better than mccain. Issue wise, besides expirence, he is a good canidate, it's just things like is racist church, his connection to some reallly wrong people, that just make me secong guess. Olny if america didnt get screwed this election:(
actually obama at one time did support the war, though at this time he is better than mccain. Issue wise, besides expirence, he is a good canidate, it's just things like is racist church, his connection to some reallly wrong people, that just make me secong guess. Olny if america didnt get screwed this election:(
I think everyone supported something they regret, and I don't hold that against him, nor would I hold it against anyone else, as long as they realize they were wrong. Experience wise, sometimes its good to not have experience, sometimes its good to have experience. The lack there-of allows you to have a more open mind then one who did not have such experience.
As for his church, as far as I can see, the Bible has racist parts, thus any church supporting the Bible should be considered "Racist".
Hmm. I vote independent, since... when has there ever been a completely stable president? Has there ever been a president who hasn't cheated on his girlfriend or supported something totally ridiculous? Which one doesn't have some sort of touchy connection? Can you think of any who hasn't formulated a 'solution' to a problem that isn't needlessly complex or foolish?
My bit on the side-topic related to the war going on: Why bring the U.S. reputation into mind when citing reasons why it's wrong? It's a slap in the face to the constitution, but pride is of no aid when developing friendships with other countries, and it is certainly not going to make we U.S. goers any better fighters when the world gives up on our antics and aim their weapons and troops at us. I see, too often, our "pride" being lost whenever a soldier from the U.S. commits some sort of war crime, and rather than focusing entirely on the people who paid the price for their foolishness, we devote much of the attention to how it damages what the U.S. is supposed to be. If anything, it'd do we in the U.S. much better to teach people what is true about the world around us, as it is painfully obvious education about reality is lacking, the upper-class not exempt from this.
I think everyone supported something they regret, and I don't hold that against him, nor would I hold it against anyone else, as long as they realize they were wrong. Experience wise, sometimes its good to not have experience, sometimes its good to have experience. The lack there-of allows you to have a more open mind then one who did not have such experience.
As for his church, as far as I can see, the Bible has racist parts, thus any church supporting the Bible should be considered "Racist".
But where in the bible does it say to hate whites, or jews? Where does it say support blacks at all cost? Just listen to the comments the pastor said, some of them areant even religious there just hate.
But where in the bible does it say to hate whites, or jews? Where does it say support blacks at all cost? Just listen to the comments the pastor said, some of them areant even religious there just hate.
Many interpret religion as fact. That is what dooms most religious folk to a life of foolishness, rash behavior, and ill-education. Unfortunately, those with darker goals exploit this, and so, popularize that hatred with religion and a church.
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Relax and Play.
I do not mean an unnatural calmness.
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This doesn't really contribute much of anything to this topic, but I'd say that's probably the best way I've heard the situation explained :thumbsup:
and if you leave, the country and gov't can become corrupt and harbor more terrorists. i agree the rep with the ME is worse off than ever nowadays, but it has always been very tense over there since WW2 and the Cold war.
yes, you. not to offend you, but you dont know much about global terrorism in what you said. go and read about the new security dilemma.
Mac wants out just as badly as Obama. and their plans are very similar, the only guy who will withdraw immediately...is...no one.
lol yes Georgia is very backwoods in some areas...thank God i live in Atlanta!
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I simply put information out. It is up to them to absorb it...
That is because not every civil war is like the American civil war with armies. The Kurds and Shi'ite's are fighting, not as armies, but as different factions. Generals and armies are not needed for a civil war.
Of course. The creation of the country of Isreal really pissed the entire Middle East off. And the fact that we back Isreal so much focuses there anger at us as well as Isreal, thus metaphorically waving a red cape infront of the bull.
Hehehe... Of course I don't...
Of course not. That would upset the Christians and Jews too much, and that's not good.
...
good point, but really what the hell does this have anything to do with electing him is what im asking, politicaly he is a made man, created by tony rezco and Emil Jones. While rezco funded, Emil got support and told him what bills to support/make.
Also in jakarta he lived in one of the most up-scale area's you could, though not u.s standers across, look im not taking anything away from the hardships of living with out a father, and having to live with your grandparents most of the time, im just saying he has had more oppertunities then most people, and for his campaign to use that as a wasy for him to connect to poor/middle class voters is pure b.s. While as a community organizer in the southside he made more money than my dad at the time.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
"Stay Awhile And Listen"
Or use those 4 words together in a sentence.
Has my vote
his grandparents were not well off by any means, and hes worked for all his money and connections. he also gave up many higher paying jobs in the DC area to go work as a public organizer. as for more opportunities, he didnt fall into those opportunities, getting into colombia is alot harder than you put it to be, harvard law just doesnt hand out invitations. hes worked for it all. and by comparison to other candidates, he had it rougher than all of em. but for him to do that, its just a gimmick to get votes, i mean who wouldnt do that? it shows hes a hard working man who can lead a country and that he "knows" where hes come from. i still say Obama is a better man for the job, but in a time like this Mac could win because of his military prowess.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Ok since we obviosly disagree and dont see eye to eye on that point *though obama was a made-man* How does all that, his 'past' some how make him better for the job than mccain?
Also i just want to make the point, everything he has done has been building up for him to be a polition, it's all a plan, to get heavily paid as a community organizer, to join his radical church in the southside, for him to meet with tony rezco and emil johns to help make his political uprising, and now with his personality alone he's about the be president...dosent really sound like 'hard work' to me.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
"As you may know, i'm not an expert on the economy..."
"We'll stay in Iraq for 100 years if need be!"
Hmm... here's what I get from these.
"I can't help us with the economic crisis, but HEY! I went to war and like to blow shit up!"
Way to take both statements out of context.
He said we could have military pressence in iraq for a 100 years just like we do in japan, or korea.
And also tell me where obama is this suddenly great person on the econemy, raise the capital gains tax why dont ja.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Japan wasn't in a civil war though, and we could help them. And Korea...don't get me started on that blunder...
McCain knows one thing, war. And we can only hope that we don't get another war monger in office.
On the other side of the coin though, Obama will be assassinated. America is too racist and sexist to have Obama or Hillary be president for a full term. Hate to see him go, but America is America...
Either way, we WILL pull out of Iraq. There is nothing we can do for them (Never was anything we could do for them) and the American people will hopefully understand that sooner rather then later...
I was actually hoping for edwards, and i agree we will be out of iraq at one point, we just dont know what's going happen until the time we do get out, if things to turn out good we may have some military pressence there for sometime.
Also i somewhat doubt assination, but it's always possible, i just hope none of them pick a dick cheney type vp.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
And if we keep military pressence there then there will be more 9/11's. We are not viewed as liberators by the Middle East. (Sure, there are a good number of Iraqi's that view us as such, but not the entire Middle East.) We are viewed as oppressors, hence why we have so many insurgents. We are not the good guys in this situation. As much as I hate saying it, because I love America, but America's not the good guys.
Oh please, the average person is afraid of anything that isn't like them. Obama will most likely win the election. And Obama will most likely not finish his first term. If he does, he will not finish his second. Some stupid dipshit will see to that.
it does always seem when someone new comes along or some one diffrent there's always some type of attempt. But yes i agree we need to stay out of the middle east all together, that's also over-stretching us. But Were in too deep at this point, i think the olny thing we can do is try to get out, or atleast not do any more damage.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
The thing is, every second we are over there, we do damage. Damage to the country. Damage to the region. And yes, especially damage to our own reputation. The only thing we can do is pull out. That is the only intellegent option. Anything else would only make things worse.
McCain, like Bush, wants to "stay the course". Staying the course will result in many more 9/11's, untill September eleventh will seem like nothing in comparison.
Obama is not the best canindate, but hes a hell of alot better then McCain.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
I think everyone supported something they regret, and I don't hold that against him, nor would I hold it against anyone else, as long as they realize they were wrong. Experience wise, sometimes its good to not have experience, sometimes its good to have experience. The lack there-of allows you to have a more open mind then one who did not have such experience.
As for his church, as far as I can see, the Bible has racist parts, thus any church supporting the Bible should be considered "Racist".
My bit on the side-topic related to the war going on: Why bring the U.S. reputation into mind when citing reasons why it's wrong? It's a slap in the face to the constitution, but pride is of no aid when developing friendships with other countries, and it is certainly not going to make we U.S. goers any better fighters when the world gives up on our antics and aim their weapons and troops at us. I see, too often, our "pride" being lost whenever a soldier from the U.S. commits some sort of war crime, and rather than focusing entirely on the people who paid the price for their foolishness, we devote much of the attention to how it damages what the U.S. is supposed to be. If anything, it'd do we in the U.S. much better to teach people what is true about the world around us, as it is painfully obvious education about reality is lacking, the upper-class not exempt from this.
I do not mean an unnatural calmness.
But where in the bible does it say to hate whites, or jews? Where does it say support blacks at all cost? Just listen to the comments the pastor said, some of them areant even religious there just hate.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Many interpret religion as fact. That is what dooms most religious folk to a life of foolishness, rash behavior, and ill-education. Unfortunately, those with darker goals exploit this, and so, popularize that hatred with religion and a church.
I do not mean an unnatural calmness.