Yeah...obviously there are many players that enjoyed PvP and griefing in D2 quite a lot, so it was major -to them-, but judging by my general personal grasp of the zeitgeist from hanging around the Diablo community for 10 years and...oh yeah, every single poll on every fansite that has asked, it is absolutely not even close to a major part of the game for the overwhelming majority of the fanbase. Railing on Blizzard for acting accordingly is to ignore the facts. You've every right to be frustrated because it's a big deal to you, but there's a failure here to understand how in the minority you are. Blizzard isn't making a mistake here. They're still a business, and they're working to satisfy the much larger portion of the playerbase that couldn't care less about PvP.
I don't care that PvP is being delayed, but I still think it reveals how inept and indecisive Blizzard has become. It may seem decisive to go ahead and release the game without PvP, but I think their own hubris and insecurities led to PvP becoming the whole quagmire that it is.
They're inept for not including something they don't feel is good enough to put their name on and isn't something the vast majority of D3 players don't care about? Again, I really do get your personal frustration, but drawing a larger parallel of that to Blizzard's decision-making seems...I don't know. Overreaching? Dramatic?
To say you'd rather have a really crummy PvP system at launch seems silly to me. To say they could have had a good PvP system in place with no cost to the development of the PvM system most players care about seems to require making a really big assumption on the workings of the dev team that I don't think anyone outside of that team reasonably has.
They're inept for not including something they don't feel is good enough to put their name on and isn't something the vast majority of D3 players don't care about? Again, I really do get your personal frustration, but drawing a larger parallel of that to Blizzard's decision-making seems...I don't know. Overreaching? Dramatic?
I can assure you I'm not frustrated. I really don't care about PvP. I only think it's revealing about the company itself. I think they're inept cause they've enjoyed a really long luxurious development cycle that most other developers can only dream of. And they constantly scrapped and revised systems while constantly telling the public about it instead of just shutting up about it and focusing on developing the game.
To say you'd rather have a really crummy PvP system at launch seems silly to me.
Well at any rate, I'm not one of the people saying that. Like I said I don't care PvP isn't coming out at launch. I never played Diablo for PvP. I only think it's interesting what it reveals about Blizzard itself.
They're inept for not including something they don't feel is good enough to put their name on and isn't something the vast majority of D3 players don't care about? Again, I really do get your personal frustration, but drawing a larger parallel of that to Blizzard's decision-making seems...I don't know. Overreaching? Dramatic?
I can assure you I'm not frustrated. I really don't care about PvP. I only think it's revealing about the company itself. I think they're inept cause they've enjoyed a really long luxurious development cycle that most other developers can only dream of. And they constantly scrapped and revised systems while constantly telling the public about it instead of just shutting up about it and focusing on developing the game.
To say you'd rather have a really crummy PvP system at launch seems silly to me.
Well at any rate, I'm not one of the people saying that. Like I said I don't care PvP isn't coming out at launch. I never played Diablo for PvP. I only think it's interesting what it reveals about Blizzard itself.
I would argue though, that them telling the public about systems they weren't 100% was more of an experiment; They wanted to see if they could let us a little farther in to their development of a game, and I think we failed lol. I really do see them just shutting doors as far as info goes until release, of anything, in the future. Hopefully not, but meh probably.
I don't understand the logic that being transparent means developing slower. You'd rather they stay silent and we have no idea what they're doing? It's actually brilliant of them, one because it shows they care about keeping their fans informed and second it fills a vacuum of long development silence where they know the fans would be going crazy, .e.g. OMFG D3 NEVER COMING VAPORWARE ACTIVISION PONIES !?!!?
You're right they've had a long dev cycle and have used it to iterate many systems many times. That's a Good Thing(TM). That means if something didn't work they didn't have to say 'Oh well, we have to ship, just put it out there.' They got to say, 'Well, it doesn't work. We're not putting out a crummy system.'
I don't get why that's a bad thing. We all want D3 sooner and with More Stuff. But I'd rather have less stuff than crummy stuff. I'm glad the D3 team has the luxury of being able to throw away bad systems instead of having to stick with them. I wish smaller indie clubs had that same luxury. Blizzard was a small company once too. They've been massively successful and now get to do things the way they want. We as fans are lucky for that and I think some of us aren't glad enough for it. PvM is the core of Diablo, it always has been. There's a very small (though passionate) minority of PvPers that see it differently, but that's what it is. the PvM aspect is finally good enough to release, so they're releasing it without delaying it for what is ostensibly a minor mechanic for a minority of the players.
You use the word 'hubris' yet hubris would be them arrogantly saying to themselves 'Well we have a crummy little PvP system, let's just give it to them, they'll be glad for anything and will shut up.' No, they're taking more time so even a minority-satisfying mechanic will be up their standards.
If they wanted to languor in hubris and rest on their laurels they'd have shipped D3 2 years ago and we'd have a shitty game right now. The kind of language being bandied about here is just foolish.
Oh, I've written such long walls of text about this, most of it ignored by people.
I get what you're saying. I just think beyond a certain point, I don't understand why they would keep doing press releases for every little revision to their system. Even if it wasn't causal of delays, it certainly was indicative of them. So maybe I'm complaining more about my perception of the delays.
So, maybe I haven't read enough of this post, but I was wondering what people's opinions will be on the PVE in this game. Think i will be like D2? Where it is just 1v1 in custom games, or think they will add arena in? I would be interested to see what people would want more. Just solo games or more arena style like WoW? I'm excited for Diablo PVP, I remember when I had a Zealadin in D2 and it was awesome. I want to try builds out and get ready for that amazing PVP.
In my opinion, PvP is going to bring back tons of people to this game. It's a shame that it is not released yet. I had a chance to play pvp at blizzcon and it was SO fun. It was way more popular than the PvE demo.
It is going to be arena death matches and the winning team will be determined by kill count.
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SoBeardy - Lvl 60 monk (Inferno Act III) Want to discuss Diablo 3 PvP? Check out my site D3PvPGuide!
They aren't ignoring it, it remains to be seen how fully featured it will be, however -- I do agree that 1v1 Dueling should happen in PvM games only upon unanimous agreeance.
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PvP also isn't shelved. It's coming.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
To say you'd rather have a really crummy PvP system at launch seems silly to me. To say they could have had a good PvP system in place with no cost to the development of the PvM system most players care about seems to require making a really big assumption on the workings of the dev team that I don't think anyone outside of that team reasonably has.
Well at any rate, I'm not one of the people saying that. Like I said I don't care PvP isn't coming out at launch. I never played Diablo for PvP. I only think it's interesting what it reveals about Blizzard itself.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
I would argue though, that them telling the public about systems they weren't 100% was more of an experiment; They wanted to see if they could let us a little farther in to their development of a game, and I think we failed lol. I really do see them just shutting doors as far as info goes until release, of anything, in the future. Hopefully not, but meh probably.
You're right they've had a long dev cycle and have used it to iterate many systems many times. That's a Good Thing(TM). That means if something didn't work they didn't have to say 'Oh well, we have to ship, just put it out there.' They got to say, 'Well, it doesn't work. We're not putting out a crummy system.'
I don't get why that's a bad thing. We all want D3 sooner and with More Stuff. But I'd rather have less stuff than crummy stuff. I'm glad the D3 team has the luxury of being able to throw away bad systems instead of having to stick with them. I wish smaller indie clubs had that same luxury. Blizzard was a small company once too. They've been massively successful and now get to do things the way they want. We as fans are lucky for that and I think some of us aren't glad enough for it. PvM is the core of Diablo, it always has been. There's a very small (though passionate) minority of PvPers that see it differently, but that's what it is. the PvM aspect is finally good enough to release, so they're releasing it without delaying it for what is ostensibly a minor mechanic for a minority of the players.
You use the word 'hubris' yet hubris would be them arrogantly saying to themselves 'Well we have a crummy little PvP system, let's just give it to them, they'll be glad for anything and will shut up.' No, they're taking more time so even a minority-satisfying mechanic will be up their standards.
If they wanted to languor in hubris and rest on their laurels they'd have shipped D3 2 years ago and we'd have a shitty game right now. The kind of language being bandied about here is just foolish.
I get what you're saying. I just think beyond a certain point, I don't understand why they would keep doing press releases for every little revision to their system. Even if it wasn't causal of delays, it certainly was indicative of them. So maybe I'm complaining more about my perception of the delays.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
It is going to be arena death matches and the winning team will be determined by kill count.
SoBeardy - Lvl 60 monk (Inferno Act III)
Want to discuss Diablo 3 PvP? Check out my site D3PvPGuide!