That's kind of lame, though, don't you think? I mean... I'd rather them go further while keeping things the same. Expanding can still be done without changing things.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
Then that would (i'm assuming) compromise how the demons manage to make an uprising in D3. They wanted to make it most believable, or something, so that couldn't work.
Lore dictates game balance, especially with Blizzard North. If Mephisto was not inherently weaker than Diablo, he would not have been able to be killed earlier in the game. He also wouldnt have been content for lower level characters, but he was. I'm not going to say this as fact, however, I do know Baal was so powerful, they decided to use him in an expansion of his own... Aka, at level 20 or so, you got to kill Duriel... But Baal wasn't there... Its a question of why they chose Baal for the expansion. Almost simply put, because you couldnt of killed Baal at level 20 so they removed him entirely and gave you Duriel.
So you are also saying that Baal is stronger than Diablo, and that one simple Death Lord (Minotaur) can easily smack the shit out of Andariel if he wishes to?
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Because it removes Diablo and Mephisto from Sanctuary, in effect, they have to find it all over again. You were only fighting their Spirit forms, after all. Their physical forms were still in Hell waiting for their spirits to return, at least, I don't know where else their physical forms would be.
We defeated Diablo IN Hell, not in Sanctuary, so how could we have been fighting his spiritual form in Hell if his physical form was in Hell?
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Also, the "hell" in Diablo 2 may not be the actual, real hell, as Azmodan and Belial were nowhere to be found, nor any of their followers.
Or, for obvious reasons, Blizzard North saw no reason to create ALL of Hell, as it would have been reduntant, useless, and way too expensive. Not to mention it would have taken a long time.
All of Sacntuary isn't in the game, yet we know it exists. Amazon Islands for example.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Also, smashing the soulstones was needed so they would be banished back to Hell again, and no longer be present on Sanctuary. This is simple, because, the prime evils were on Sanctuary without Soulstones to begin with. In other words, they only needed to possess a human being because they were imprisoned. Without the soulstones, they have free reign and are in their "true demonic" forms. They don't need a host without being imprisoned in the soulstone.
Once again, Diablo was in Hell when we beat him.
I don't get what you're saying here. If we kill Diablo in Hell, we banish him back to Hell? That doesn't make any sense.
Quote from "Magistrate" »
Oh, wow, that must have just happened. That is kind of weird. They obviously had to do it on purpose. Of course, the soulstone shard is still jammed in to the GIF's hand, but still. I wonder why they did that.
Yeah. It does go to show however that they do care about what their lore is about, and make sure all sources are up to date.
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As to why they removed that lore info check this post here.
I posted that not Genesis!
Sorry Daemaro, mixed that up somehow
And of course the shard is still in their hands, why would they go through the trouble of remaking the model (when the original modelers are gone)? They didn't even do taht when they added Lilith to the game, they just recolored Andariel. And on top of that, they would have to release a patch for the game just to upload a new version of a Council Member.
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Erm, was that directed at me? I never suggested they remake the models. What I was saying is that it seems like they're covering it up to me. Or else why even remove that part of the lore?
Yes I was responding to your earlier post, which I probably should have quoted come to think of it.
What I meant was that I think they are simply retconning their previous stance on soulstones, rather than covering up. That would explain why they are removing text from Arreat Summit that was previously there. However they would not go so far as to actually draw a new model just because they change the story.
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Long before Diablo 3 had been announced my group of friends that played Diablo 2 religiously began making theories of where the story could go after the Worldstone was shattered.
One thing that seemed to be brought up consistently is that there is a soulforge where these stones could be broken. We believed that if this is the place where they could be broken, then that would also be the place where the stones could be reforged. This, then, could be the platform for the series' next installment, via Diablo 3.
On top of this theory we also believed that since the Worldstone had been corrupted and would thus need to be destroyed we had figured that its protection would wane and allow demons and angels of all sorts in the world of Sanctuary.
These are all just theories, of course. The soulstone theories seemed rather solid though.
One thing that seemed to be brought up consistently is that there is a soulforge where these stones could be broken. We believed that if this is the place where they could be broken, then that would also be the place where the stones could be reforged. This, then, could be the platform for the series' next installment, via Diablo 3.
AKA the Hellforge? That's at least where they were shattered
Quote from "Nocturne" »
On top of this theory we also believed that since the Worldstone had been corrupted and would thus need to be destroyed we had figured that its protection would wane and allow demons and angels of all sorts in the world of Sanctuary.
Which is perhaps correct, although the Sin War merely said the Worldstone hid Sanctuary.
I don't know that worked exacly though, because obviously Tyrael could find Sanctuary, and tons upon tons of demons that were clearly in Sanctuary long before the Worldstone was destroyed in Diablo II.
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What I meant was that I think they are simply retconning their previous stance on soulstones, rather than covering up. That would explain why they are removing text from Arreat Summit that was previously there. However they would not go so far as to actually draw a new model just because they change the story.
Why just withdraw the information though? Unless it's important to D3's story or something they have in the works.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
I don't know that worked exacly though, because obviously Tyrael could find Sanctuary, and tons upon tons of demons that were clearly in Sanctuary long before the Worldstone was destroyed in Diablo II.
Tyrael didn't enter until after the end of the veiled prophet did he when Sanctuary became known to the Council. (haven't finished it yet just seems to be where it's heading)
So maybe that's why Tyrael knew where it was.
Why just withdraw the information though? Unless it's important to D3's story or something they have in the works.
Well, what else could they have done? I mean, they can't launch news saying "Look! We changed three lines of text over at this site here under one specific monster."
Quote from "Daemaro" »
Tyrael didn't enter until after the end of the veiled prophet did he when Sanctuary became known to the Council. (haven't finished it yet just seems to be where it's heading)
So maybe that's why Tyrael knew where it was.
No I mean, the Worldstone is still standing during Diablo II, however there are tons of monsters running around everywhere, so apparently entering Sanctuary isn't that hard. Even Lesser Evils are called into the world just to stand on guard duty.
So where does the majro fear of an invasion come from?
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Oh in I think Scales of the Serpent (just read this part the other night) it said that the worldstone doesn't shield it but keep it hidden and the demons have known about it for a long time thanks to Lilith. Or something like that. It's in the first 10 chapters when Mendeln is talking to Rathma and Trag'Oul.
Well, what else could they have done? I mean, they can't launch news saying "Look! We changed three lines of text over at this site here under one specific monster."
No I don't expect that, my point is though, why remove something of a game that's long been finished work on unless it has something to do with the next installment.
No I mean, the Worldstone is still standing during Diablo II, however there are tons of monsters running around everywhere, so apparently entering Sanctuary isn't that hard. Even Lesser Evils are called into the world just to stand on guard duty.
So where does the majro fear of an invasion come from?
Diablo summoned most of these demons, like you said. You answered your own statement, in a way.
Not only that, but, apparently the prime evils can draw other demons to them...
"Many demons followed the Prime Evils to the mortal realm... These demons were hunted by angels throughout the vast cities of the east. The Angels allied themselves with a mortal order of magi deemed the horadrim, who quickly became adept at hunting demons" blah blah.
So, I think its safe to say all the monsters running around are because of the Prime Evils on Sanctuary. They didnt just find it by themselves, nor are they freely aligned. They are controlled by the prime and lessers.
Also, what I meant earlier about killing Diablo... If the Hell in Diablo 2 is the true hell, and you're right, they just didnt want to create more of it for fear of redundancy, then Diablo is effectively banished to the abyss. If you kill a prime evil in its home plane, its banished (dead) forever... Supposedly. Then there are always the rumors that Diablo was not always the ruler of the abyss, and something came before the Prime Evils themselves.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
The fear of invasion comes from the power of hell overcoming the power of sanctuary. When the Worldstone was intact, hereoes were able to kill or contain the present froms of the Three. With the Worldstone destroyed, there is nothing from stopping the full extent of hell/the abyss from consuming and corrupting santuary to another outpost of hell. The Three would use mankind/nephalem as slaves to destroy Heaven. Essentially, Mephisto's speech of; "The righteous shall fall before the wicked" would become true.
Phew! That's a lot of stuff to cover Iva!
Oh well, here I go!
Quote from "Ivaron" »
The Prime Evils were on Sanctuary in their bodies, but they were defeated by the Horadrim and their souls were trapped into Soulstones so that they could not return to Hell. Why did they do this? Maybe they couldn't destroy the Prime Evils entirely, and so settled for emprisoning them?
Close... But not quite. The Prime Evils were never on the mortal realm with their bodies. If I recall, "The Sin War" even states "The lesser evils overthrew the three Prime Evils, and banished their spirit forms to the mortal realm" It does not say anything about their physical forms going to Sanctuary. So, in other words, the Horadrim imprisoned their souls in the soulstones, with nothing else to work with. My guess is, they imprisoned them so they wouldnt ever cause anymore trouble... Perhaps they knew simply killing them wouldnt be permanent, and they'd have to deal with them coming back at some point, and thought the Soulstones would be permanent?
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Regardless, the Prime Evils' bodies were probably sent back to Hell while their souls remained on Sanctuary. After their defeat, I would assume their souls could immediately return to their bodies rather than spending time in the Abyss, as their bodies were still alive. Which would mean Mephisto and Diablo are now in Hell, and Baal is not unaccounted for.
Right, but, again, nothing has told us their physical forms have ever left hell. We've only had the books in Diablo to tell us their spirit forms -only- have left hell.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
This brings up the question, but didn't we defeat Diablo in Hell already? Why didn't he return to his body immediately and kick our arse? Well I think that was only a part of hell, like a bigger variant of the small Hell levels you can find portals to in Act 5. This part of Hell was the part that housed the Hellforge. Think about it. There was basically nothing else of importance there. Izual was there, but that only makes sense because that is where he was captured and corrupted.
Why would Diablo choose to return to that particular part of Hell? Maybe he wanted to talk to Izual, to make him give the player false information or to discuss their plan..
Thats entirely possible. I agree with this statement. We were in the sector of hell that housed Diablo's new lair. Unlike in Act 5, where you can find "Abaddon" and other parts of Hell that are very out of place and unusual.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Baal's soulstone could have been destroyed when the Worldstone got destroyed. Remember that in the cinematic the whole crystal explodes, and the parts that break off are blown into smaller and smaller parts until they are finally completely destroyed. Wouldn't the shockwave that did that also destroy Baal's soulstone?
That... Or, create millions of tiny shards of Worldstone/Soulstone.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
For those who think that the Prime Evils just wanted to be killed and have their soulstones destroyed so they could return to Hell - Ask yourself why, then, does Izual speak of some great plan that the Prime Evils had plotted in which they were banished to Sanctuary?
Because the Prime Evils would never want any mortals knowing they were overthrown unwillingly. I don't trust anything Izual says. I think the whole character Izual is a lying character to begin with. Perhpas I'm looking to far into it, but, "Oh, we didnt get thrown out... We had it PLANNED..." sounds like a cover up for getting their asses kicked.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
However, if they did something on Sanctuary that no one noticed... This could be lots of things... And then wanted to return to Hell to prepare their armies for the assault which is now somehow apparently possible whereas it wasn't before, then that could make sense.
They got the Worldstone destroyed, so it's easier to find Sanctuary now... On top of that, Baal wasnt the first person to mess with the Worldstone. 10,000 years prior, Lilith, Mephisto's bitch daughter, warped a tiny piece of its internals in order to reactivate the Nephalem (Edyrem) powers in humans so she could use it to her advantage. So, I don't know how powerful the Worldstone is, or what its overall powers really are. My guess is that it controlled just about everything in Sanctuary, including its protection.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Remember, however, that whatever they did it has to have something to do with the soulstones. Why? Because they roamed around Sanctuary for a long time before they got captured, and they could have done whatever they wanted to do then. But apparently they wanted to be captured with the soulstones, before their plan could be carried out. Izual's speech confirms this:
"Tyrael was a fool to have trusted me! You see, it was I who told the Prime Evils about the soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their exile into your world."
A last question then comes to mind... How did Izual know about the soulstones before the Prime Evils were exiled? Didn't Tyrael think up the soulstone plan as a response to the Prime Evils causing chaos on Sanctuary? Or did he already have something with soulstones to trap evildoers in mind beforehand and told Izual about this plan? There's something weird there.
More of a reason I believe Izual to be a gut sucking liar and nothing other than that. I honestly believe everything he says is to throw the mortals off of Diablo, in any way. Because if he was really as "big and bad and evil" as he claims and talks, he would've never told the mortals anything helpful.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Well anyway. Perhaps the big plan of the Prime Evils was very simply to achieve immortality.
Not sure I've ever read anything that doesn't say Demons, especially Arch-Demons or Demon Lords, aren't already immortal. They don't have to eat, drink, breathe, sleep, and cannot die by mortal means... Right? I've read that in about 2,000 game manuals dealing with demons, so, I dont think thats it.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
All you are fighting is Diablo's spirit in the Warrior's body.
Right, its even said somewhere that the demonic form while in the Warrior's body looks nothing like Diablo's -true- form with no soulstone restriction.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
So you defeat his spirit, but you do not defeat his body.
Nope, his body is most likely in hell locked up by Azmodan and Belial.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
His spirit returns to the soulstone. Then it gets freed when you smash the soulstone.
If he was in true hell, technically, smashing the soulstone would effectively have -killed- Diablo forever. Or, in this case, banished him to the abyss.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
His spirit is then probably returned to his body... However, it is unclear where his body is at the moment. It is either on Sanctuary, hidden somewhere by the Horadrim, or the body died when the spirit was captured and Diablo's body has since respawned through the abyss into hell. In that case, his spirit which is now free will likely join with his new body, reviving Diablo in his true form. Which is bad news for Belial and Azmodan...
Like I said, Diablo, Mephisto, and Baal's bodies were never said to have left Hell. So, yeah, -BAD- news for Azmodan and Belial.
By the way, Diablo's design, assuming it IS Diablo, for Diablo 3 has changed monumentally. He looks completely different in the pictures and whatnot for the Diablo logo's... Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps this IS what Diablo's true demonic form looks like, as its lost all scope of its "human like" form from Diablo 2 or Diablo 1.
Diablo 3 - http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/diablo-3-logo.jpg
Diablo 2- http://d2.xhost.ro/images/Diablo-2.jpg
Up to you, I think his face looks radically different in the Diablo 3 logo, though.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
So, to summarise: Diablo's spirit was in another part of Hell than Diablo's body. The spirit was inside the soulstone, which was in turn inside the Warrior's head. Now that the soulstone has been smashed, the spirit has likely returned to its body.
It has nothing to do with him being in his home place or not.
Technically, it does. Because I know I've read that if the Demon is killed on its home pl...
Hmm, wait, that trumps that statement... Technically, you never KILLED Diablo, you only smashed the prison he was in... I'm guessing you have to effectively KILL the -real- Diablo, in his -real- physical form, for him to be banished to the Abyss. I don't think simpyl killing his Warrior form and breaking his Soulstone would banish him to the Abyss... I think you're right, it would simpyly send his spirit back to his -real- body. Hmm... Interesting...
So, perhaps, Diablo 3 is, in a nutshell:
"Hey, we killed his host, we busted his prison, now lets go to the source and stop it for good."
Now! To give my take on the questions we need to be asking.
* Why did Mephisto stay in Kurast? To buy time for his brothers to do whatever they were supposed to do?
Mephisto already had his empire going on there. What every Prime Evil wants, I assume, is domination, and he held the entire travincal as well as most if not all of Kurast. I doubt he'd leave. Baal's original plan was to hold Lut Gholein, I believe, but that didnt pan out for him.
* Why did Diablo go to the area in Hell where the Hellforge is? To visit Izual?
This isn't able to be answered. At least, I cannot recall any type of information that would point anything out. It's possible the whole Pandemonium Fortress was demons, and, once again, the heroes were being led to kill Diablo so he could reclaim his original form. However, I dont think the "Hero characters" in Diablo 2 were stupid enough to not realize something isnt right about the pandemonium fortress... however, it does seem odd that Heaven's NEVER interacted in Mortal affairs before, but, for some reason, allows them full and total sanctuary and help to kill Diablo in Hell. Its just a little odd of Angels from what I've read, as Tyrael was like the only angel I've heard of that meddles with Humans.
* Why did Baal corrupt the Worldstone? To hide it from Heaven?
Ultimate power!!!! Effectively, as I said earlier, Mephisto's daughter corrupted it 10,000 years ago to gain power already. I don't see why Baal wouldn't try to take over the very crystal that controls all of Sanctuary himself.
* Why did the Prime Evils wait until they were imprisoned in Soulstones before they executed their plans?
I'm not really sure any plans were executed, other than corrupting local villagers to help get them out of their prisons to begin with... It's all really fuzzy, to me. Odd plan of theres... To get imprisoned, then corrupt people to help get them out, then go on a rampage, then get killed... It seems sloppy and completely ludicrous.
* How could Izual tell the Prime Evils about the soulstones even before their banishment, when logically the soulstones weren't needed yet and so Tyrael wouldn't have thought them up yet? He must have even known about the soulstones before he was corrupted.
Its possible Izual just gave the idea to Tyrael. Who knows. Again, I dont trust Izual at all.
* If the Prime Evils are now simply back in Hell, what did they actually accomplish?
They probably accomplished, well, being back in hell! Taking it back over, and putting Azmodan and Belial where they belong. I still don't believe they were purposefully kicked out. Seems more like, if it was a plan to be kicked out, they wanted to do a few scouting missions on Sanctuary and chillax until they knew it was time to be "defeated" and go back to Hell.
* What's the big plan the prime evils and Izual cooked up?
Only foundationless speculation can be made at this, as there aren't any facts backed up directly by the Diablo lore.
Anyways, I think I hit all of that. Really good ideas, concepts, and thoughts Ivaron. Lets try to make the next posts shorter though, as I'm sure this one is going to take up half a page!
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
If the Prime Evils are now simply back in Hell, what did they actually accomplish?
They managed to get the worldstone destroyed.
Also, I could see a quest in the game requiring you to recover 'The Last Worldstone Shard', with a history like: Vendors used to sell them if they knew what they had. Through the years, a bevy of clans have banded together to destroy them all. But there is still one left. And yada-yada, maybe it could be the key to the rejuvination of the evils, idk.
Oh in I think Scales of the Serpent (just read this part the other night) it said that the worldstone doesn't shield it but keep it hidden and the demons have known about it for a long time thanks to Lilith. Or something like that. It's in the first 10 chapters when Mendeln is talking to Rathma and Trag'Oul.
I know. What I meant what, IF it was hidden, how the Hell did they all find it? (no pun intended :P)
Quote from "LordRayken" »
So, I think its safe to say all the monsters running around are because of the Prime Evils on Sanctuary. They didnt just find it by themselves, nor are they freely aligned. They are controlled by the prime and lessers.
I'm starting to think this hiding process isn't actually hiding, but more a shield in the sense that demons cannot find it on their own so long as the Worldstone is there, they have to be summoned.
However, that still leaves the problem of the Lesser Evils banishing the Prime Evils. How could they do taht, if demons have to be summoned and can't get there themselves? If they could accomplish that feat, then all the evils should have been able to muster an army and send it to Sanctuary while the stone was still in place.
Or maybe only Great Evils can get there on their own, but if that's the case, why not go to Sanctuary first, then summon demons? Is it only because of the pact with Mephisto?
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Also, what I meant earlier about killing Diablo... If the Hell in Diablo 2 is the true hell, and you're right, they just didnt want to create more of it for fear of redundancy, then Diablo is effectively banished to the abyss. If you kill a prime evil in its home plane, its banished (dead) forever... Supposedly. Then there are always the rumors that Diablo was not always the ruler of the abyss, and something came before the Prime Evils themselves.
Not necessarily. You need to drop the knowledge you have about other demons and see how Diablo differs
Tyrael specifically says during the last quest in Act 4 quest:
Only by destroying the Soulstone which he carries will his spirit be banished forever.
Banished, not destroyed.
Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them and the corrupted Soulstones are no more.
Notice spawned them. So apparently that's no the Abyss either.
And how could it be? The Three are like primal forces, everything points to the fact that they cannot be irrevocably destryoed.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
The Prime Evils were on Sanctuary in their bodies, but they were defeated by the Horadrim and their souls were trapped into Soulstones so that they could not return to Hell. Why did they do this? Maybe they couldn't destroy the Prime Evils entirely, and so settled for emprisoning them?
Most likely, that's how I always imagined it. Or, they saw greater profit in imprisoning them, instead of simply sending them back to Hell.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Regardless, the Prime Evils' bodies were probably sent back to Hell while their souls remained on Sanctuary. After their defeat, I would assume their souls could immediately return to their bodies rather than spending time in the Abyss, as their bodies were still alive. Which would mean Mephisto and Diablo are now in Hell, and Baal is not unaccounted for.
Where are you all getting this whole "body left in Hell" reasoning? There's never been any indication that the bodies of the Three are somehow important for their existence. They were perfectly capable of wreaking havoc without them in Diablo I and II, and could take up physical form anyway. Once again, the body is important in other demon literature, but not necessarily in Diablo because of that.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
This brings up the question, but didn't we defeat Diablo in Hell already? Why didn't he return to his body immediately and kick our arse? Well I think that was only a part of hell, like a bigger variant of the small Hell levels you can find portals to in Act 5. This part of Hell was the part that housed the Hellforge. Think about it. There was basically nothing else of importance there. Izual was there, but that only makes sense because that is where he was captured and corrupted.
Well, Diablo's soul was still in the Soulstone at that point, which can be seen in his death animation, and the sequence, when it flies back into the soulstone after his defeat. Then, it was smashed in the Hellforge, which banished it the the Abyss, which is not the same as Hell.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Why would Diablo choose to return to that particular part of Hell? Maybe he wanted to talk to Izual, to make him give the player false information or to discuss their plan..
Because his Sanctuary was there.
This is a question you will run into no matter where Blizzard placed him. He had to return somewhere, and it just happened to be there. It's once again a gameplay element: The Hellforge had to be there for story reasons, a River of Flame was cool, and the final dungeon was an impressive dark cathedral in gothic style that went with the game.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Baal's soulstone could have been destroyed when the Worldstone got destroyed. Remember that in the cinematic the whole crystal explodes, and the parts that break off are blown into smaller and smaller parts until they are finally completely destroyed. Wouldn't the shockwave that did that also destroy Baal's soulstone?
On the other hand, Tyrael was capable of destroying the Worldstone, but he couldn't destroy Mephisto's soulstone. So perhaps the soulstones were harder to destroy than the Worldstone was.
It's possible it has to be destroyed in Hell in order for them to be banished to the Abyss, otherwise he might just have gone back to Hell. That's speculation, but it sounds reasonable.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Well anyway. Perhaps the big plan of the Prime Evils was very simply to achieve immortality. They let themselves be captured in soulstones, then they have the soulstones split so that their essence is divided and they can't be banished to the abyss. Then they have the soulstone they occupy destroyed so they return to their bodies in Hell. And voila, immortality is achieved as long as the shards of their soulstones that remain on Sanctuary are not destroyed. Like a Lich.
Doesn't make any sense, they are already immortan in the true sense, in that they cannot be destroyed permanently.
And splitting the soul or some such; even if that were possible in Diablo, there would have to be a tradeoff, one that I am not sure the Prime Evils are willing to pay when it really isn't needed.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
All you are fighting is Diablo's spirit in the Warrior's body. So you defeat his spirit, but you do not defeat his body. His spirit returns to the soulstone. Then it gets freed when you smash the soulstone. His spirit is then probably returned to his body... However, it is unclear where his body is at the moment. It is either on Sanctuary, hidden somewhere by the Horadrim, or the body died when the spirit was captured and Diablo's body has since respawned through the abyss into hell. In that case, his spirit which is now free will likely join with his new body, reviving Diablo in his true form. Which is bad news for Belial and Azmodan...
So, to summarise: Diablo's spirit was in another part of Hell than Diablo's body. The spirit was inside the soulstone, which was in turn inside the Warrior's head. Now that the soulstone has been smashed, the spirit has likely returned to its body.
It has nothing to do with him being in his home place or not.
I ask again, where does the body reasoning come from in relation to the Diablo Universe?
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Close... But not quite. The Prime Evils were never on the mortal realm with their bodies. If I recall, "The Sin War" even states "The lesser evils overthrew the three Prime Evils, and banished their spirit forms to the mortal realm" It does not say anything about their physical forms going to Sanctuary. So, in other words, the Horadrim imprisoned their souls in the soulstones, with nothing else to work with. My guess is, they imprisoned them so they wouldnt ever cause anymore trouble... Perhaps they knew simply killing them wouldnt be permanent, and they'd have to deal with them coming back at some point, and thought the Soulstones would be permanent?
With Tyrael providing them with knowledge of how these things work, this seems to be most plausible. By imprisoning them, they wouldn't be dead, but they wouldn't be able to do anything either. Or so they thought.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Because the Prime Evils would never want any mortals knowing they were overthrown unwillingly. I don't trust anything Izual says. I think the whole character Izual is a lying character to begin with. Perhpas I'm looking to far into it, but, "Oh, we didnt get thrown out... We had it PLANNED..." sounds like a cover up for getting their asses kicked.
Definately plausible. Izual was defeated, and so knew that shit was gonna come down for Diablo in a moment. The most damage he could do at that point was to lie.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
They got the Worldstone destroyed, so it's easier to find Sanctuary now... On top of that, Baal wasnt the first person to mess with the Worldstone. 10,000 years prior, Lilith, Mephisto's bitch daughter, warped a tiny piece of its internals in order to reactivate the Nephalem (Edyrem) powers in humans so she could use it to her advantage. So, I don't know how powerful the Worldstone is, or what its overall powers really are. My guess is that it controlled just about everything in Sanctuary, including its protection.
I don't think it controlled everything, because then its destruciton would have wreaked much more havoc than it apparently has.
I think it was insanely complex however, and all Lilith could do without screwing up too much was change it in a minor way.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Not sure I've ever read anything that doesn't say Demons, especially Arch-Demons or Demon Lords, aren't already immortal. They don't have to eat, drink, breathe, sleep, and cannot die by mortal means... Right? I've read that in about 2,000 game manuals dealing with demons, so, I dont think thats it.
Which doesn't necessarily mean it's true for Diablo, however in this case it does seem to be.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Nope, his body is most likely in hell locked up by Azmodan and Belial.
Why? Wouldn't it make more sense for Azmodan and Belial to kill his body IN Hell and send it to the Black Abyss if it is so important?
Quote from "LordRayken" »
If he was in true hell, technically, smashing the soulstone would effectively have -killed- Diablo forever. Or, in this case, banished him to the abyss.
Which doesn't necessarily mean he's dead.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
Technically, it does. Because I know I've read that if the Demon is killed on its home pl...
Hmm, wait, that trumps that statement... Technically, you never KILLED Diablo, you only smashed the prison he was in... I'm guessing you have to effectively KILL the -real- Diablo, in his -real- physical form, for him to be banished to the Abyss. I don't think simpyl killing his Warrior form and breaking his Soulstone would banish him to the Abyss... I think you're right, it would simpyly send his spirit back to his -real- body. Hmm... Interesting...
So, perhaps, Diablo 3 is, in a nutshell:
"Hey, we killed his host, we busted his prison, now lets go to the source and stop it for good."
Diablo probably did die at the end of Diablo II. His soulstone was smashed, effectively sending his soul back to the Black Abyss, something which had never happened before in the games.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
* Why did Diablo go to the area in Hell where the Hellforge is? To visit Izual?
This isn't able to be answered. At least, I cannot recall any type of information that would point anything out. It's possible the whole Pandemonium Fortress was demons, and, once again, the heroes were being led to kill Diablo so he could reclaim his original form. However, I dont think the "Hero characters" in Diablo 2 were stupid enough to not realize something isnt right about the pandemonium fortress... however, it does seem odd that Heaven's NEVER interacted in Mortal affairs before, but, for some reason, allows them full and total sanctuary and help to kill Diablo in Hell. Its just a little odd of Angels from what I've read, as Tyrael was like the only angel I've heard of that meddles with Humans.
It's more like a small outpost on the outskirts of Hell. I wouldn't be surprised if Hell had the same thing outside of Heaven, so to speak.
It's a war, you need to keep the bearing of your enemy at all times.
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Wait. With the Worldstone destroyed, doesn't that also get rid of the barrier put on the mortal's powers? Effectively making them potentially as powerful as the Nephalem again? In that case, first giving them back their powers and then corrupting them would be a logical thing for the Prime Evils to want to do. And, if it had been succesfully corrupted rather than destoryed, the Heavens wouldn't even be able to find Sanctuary anymore.. Their actions are starting to make sense that way.
I don't know where people are getting the idea the worldstone weakened humans, I haven't quite finished the sin war I'm on chapter 13 now of book two, but when you first read about Rathma he explains that humans now aren't really Nephalem, but they're not weaker either. They've become something more than that, Uldyssian has some powers that Rathma doesn't and Rathma has some Uldyssian doesn't. Uldyssian doesn't even call his group Nephalem anymore, he calls them Erydem. I think they said it means, "One Who Has Seen".
If I can find it again I'll quote it exactly.
Here it is:
Uldyssian: You... you are like us... Rathma: No, I am unlike you or any of those who follow you. I cannot explain, but what you call the "gift" has metamorphosed. There are abilities that I have that you do not just as you bear some I am lacking. I suppose this should not so surprise me since I am from the very first generation birthed on Sanctuary...
Also this little tidbit from Trag'Oul:
Rathma: You said he was too weakened by her to do this! Trag'Oul: He is different! They would all be different! They are no more nephalem than you are human! They are more-
Ah after researching about it some more it seems Inarius had originally dampened the powers of the Nephalem, but Lilith altered the world stone to allow humans to regain their powers. Uldyssian is one of the first to start surfacing his power.
But the Sin War took place 3000 years before Diablo 1. So people should have no problems with getting powers back, worldstone or not by that time.
It was just a logical conclusion I made. Demons get respawned when they die. The Prime Evils' bodies died, so they got respawned and were in Hell. They were however missing their spirits since they were elsewhere. But since only their spirits had been banished, there is no need for this conjecture. I didn't know that, however, having not read the books.
I don't think all too many demons respawn when they die, Hell would quickly get crowded if all those Pain Worms you smash to pieces respawn. Although that does happen in Hell...
Quote from "Ivaron" »
You don't actually kill Diablo, you only destroy the prison that houses his soul. So he isn't banished to the Abyss, rather his soul returns to his body instead.
And I ment of course that he would come and kick your arse when you smashed the stone, not when you killed the Wanderer.
Well I think you do. The Soulstone his necessary anchor in the world; without it or a body, there's no way for him to go.
And besides, you killed his body
However, that would create problems with thembeing as spirits when the Horadrim hunted them. Hmm...
Quote from "Ivaron" »
It's the Chaos Sanctuary, not the Horror Sanctuary. Just a random Sanctuary I would think. Unless one of the books mentions it is specifically Diablo's? I thought he just chose that one because it was close to the Hellforge. It's a rather small Sanctuary anyway, not something I would see fit for the Lord of Terror if it's his actual domain. Although, yes, I assume that could just be game limitations at work.
Like I said: think about it. All that is of importance in the part of Hell we see is the Hellforge. Izual can be explained in that it makes sence he would be near the Hellforge. So rather than thinking the Hellforge happens to be close to Diablo, I would think Diablo specifically chose to visit the part of hell that housed the Hellforge. Perhaps because he wanted to make sure the player would smash the soulstones, or perhaps because he wanted to talk to Izual, or do something at the Hellforge. After all, we still don't know what Diablo was doing in Hell in the first place.
Well there's this little tidbit:
Quote from "Hadriel" »
Proceed, hero, into Terror's lair. Know that Diablo's innermost sanctum is hidden by five seals. Only by opening each of these seals can you clear your way to the final battle.
It may just indicate that it's his lair at the moment, but it could also mean it is his main lair. It's a bit ambiguous.
And again, it might a game issue. You need Diablo in the game, and you need the Hellforge, and you cannot make Act 4 humongous.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
I was thinking only the Hellforge had the power to destroy a soulstone, aside from the Prime Evils themselves, and perhaps the shattering of the Worldstone (which is after all what the soulstones are made from).
Well yes, I was mainly saying that as an explanation why Tyreal didn't destroy them. Had he been in Hell while doing it he might have been successful.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Did I really explain it so badly? Once again, I know they are immortal in that they respawn when they die. What I meant to say is that would seek a way to become immortal in the way that they can't die in the first place, saving time that would otherwise be spent respawning. This would be valuable in the fight against heaven, in that they would no longer have to fear death at all and could just attack mercilessly. When they die, they return immediately and can cause havok again.
They are evil maniacs! Of course they would. And when they're done destoying Heaven, they can just restore their souls to like they were. They have unlimited time to do this, because they are immortal anyway. So it's a win/win.
I'm saying the tradeoff is probably bigger than the gain WHILE at war. You need to be at full strength when you fight the Angiris, and if you're too weak, it doesn't matter if you don't die, becasue you still can't win.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
And kill the Prime Evils, effectively reverting their banishment? Of course not.
Assuming the Banishment isn't part of the plan. I always imagined, after lsitening to Izual, that the supposed banishing was part of the soulstone plan. If the plan was set in motion "so long ago", it would have to be planned before they were sent to Sanctuary, e.g before they were exiled.
There's been a thread on that already, don't remember when though.
Quote from "Daemaro" »
I don't know where people are getting the idea the worldstone weakened humans, I haven't quite finished the sin war I'm on chapter 13 now of book two, but when you first read about Rathma he explains that humans now aren't really Nephalem, but they're not weaker either. They've become something more than that, Uldyssian has some powers that Rathma doesn't and Rathma has some Uldyssian doesn't. Uldyssian doesn't even call his group Nephalem anymore, he calls them Erydem. I think they said it means, "One Who Has Seen".
...
But the Sin War took place 3000 years before Diablo 1. So people should have no problems with getting powers back, worldstone or not by that time.
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We defeated Diablo IN Hell, not in Sanctuary, so how could we have been fighting his spiritual form in Hell if his physical form was in Hell?
Or, for obvious reasons, Blizzard North saw no reason to create ALL of Hell, as it would have been reduntant, useless, and way too expensive. Not to mention it would have taken a long time.
All of Sacntuary isn't in the game, yet we know it exists. Amazon Islands for example.
Once again, Diablo was in Hell when we beat him.
I don't get what you're saying here. If we kill Diablo in Hell, we banish him back to Hell? That doesn't make any sense.
Yeah. It does go to show however that they do care about what their lore is about, and make sure all sources are up to date.
I posted that not Genesis!
And of course the shard is still in their hands, why would they go through the trouble of remaking the model (when the original modelers are gone)? They didn't even do taht when they added Lilith to the game, they just recolored Andariel. And on top of that, they would have to release a patch for the game just to upload a new version of a Council Member.
What I meant was that I think they are simply retconning their previous stance on soulstones, rather than covering up. That would explain why they are removing text from Arreat Summit that was previously there. However they would not go so far as to actually draw a new model just because they change the story.
One thing that seemed to be brought up consistently is that there is a soulforge where these stones could be broken. We believed that if this is the place where they could be broken, then that would also be the place where the stones could be reforged. This, then, could be the platform for the series' next installment, via Diablo 3.
On top of this theory we also believed that since the Worldstone had been corrupted and would thus need to be destroyed we had figured that its protection would wane and allow demons and angels of all sorts in the world of Sanctuary.
These are all just theories, of course. The soulstone theories seemed rather solid though.
Which is perhaps correct, although the Sin War merely said the Worldstone hid Sanctuary.
I don't know that worked exacly though, because obviously Tyrael could find Sanctuary, and tons upon tons of demons that were clearly in Sanctuary long before the Worldstone was destroyed in Diablo II.
Why just withdraw the information though? Unless it's important to D3's story or something they have in the works.
Tyrael didn't enter until after the end of the veiled prophet did he when Sanctuary became known to the Council. (haven't finished it yet just seems to be where it's heading)
So maybe that's why Tyrael knew where it was.
No I mean, the Worldstone is still standing during Diablo II, however there are tons of monsters running around everywhere, so apparently entering Sanctuary isn't that hard. Even Lesser Evils are called into the world just to stand on guard duty.
So where does the majro fear of an invasion come from?
No I don't expect that, my point is though, why remove something of a game that's long been finished work on unless it has something to do with the next installment.
Diablo summoned most of these demons, like you said. You answered your own statement, in a way.
Not only that, but, apparently the prime evils can draw other demons to them...
"Many demons followed the Prime Evils to the mortal realm... These demons were hunted by angels throughout the vast cities of the east. The Angels allied themselves with a mortal order of magi deemed the horadrim, who quickly became adept at hunting demons" blah blah.
So, I think its safe to say all the monsters running around are because of the Prime Evils on Sanctuary. They didnt just find it by themselves, nor are they freely aligned. They are controlled by the prime and lessers.
Also, what I meant earlier about killing Diablo... If the Hell in Diablo 2 is the true hell, and you're right, they just didnt want to create more of it for fear of redundancy, then Diablo is effectively banished to the abyss. If you kill a prime evil in its home plane, its banished (dead) forever... Supposedly. Then there are always the rumors that Diablo was not always the ruler of the abyss, and something came before the Prime Evils themselves.
Oh well, here I go!
Close... But not quite. The Prime Evils were never on the mortal realm with their bodies. If I recall, "The Sin War" even states "The lesser evils overthrew the three Prime Evils, and banished their spirit forms to the mortal realm" It does not say anything about their physical forms going to Sanctuary. So, in other words, the Horadrim imprisoned their souls in the soulstones, with nothing else to work with. My guess is, they imprisoned them so they wouldnt ever cause anymore trouble... Perhaps they knew simply killing them wouldnt be permanent, and they'd have to deal with them coming back at some point, and thought the Soulstones would be permanent?
Right, but, again, nothing has told us their physical forms have ever left hell. We've only had the books in Diablo to tell us their spirit forms -only- have left hell.
Thats entirely possible. I agree with this statement. We were in the sector of hell that housed Diablo's new lair. Unlike in Act 5, where you can find "Abaddon" and other parts of Hell that are very out of place and unusual.
That... Or, create millions of tiny shards of Worldstone/Soulstone.
Because the Prime Evils would never want any mortals knowing they were overthrown unwillingly. I don't trust anything Izual says. I think the whole character Izual is a lying character to begin with. Perhpas I'm looking to far into it, but, "Oh, we didnt get thrown out... We had it PLANNED..." sounds like a cover up for getting their asses kicked.
They got the Worldstone destroyed, so it's easier to find Sanctuary now... On top of that, Baal wasnt the first person to mess with the Worldstone. 10,000 years prior, Lilith, Mephisto's bitch daughter, warped a tiny piece of its internals in order to reactivate the Nephalem (Edyrem) powers in humans so she could use it to her advantage. So, I don't know how powerful the Worldstone is, or what its overall powers really are. My guess is that it controlled just about everything in Sanctuary, including its protection.
More of a reason I believe Izual to be a gut sucking liar and nothing other than that. I honestly believe everything he says is to throw the mortals off of Diablo, in any way. Because if he was really as "big and bad and evil" as he claims and talks, he would've never told the mortals anything helpful.
Not sure I've ever read anything that doesn't say Demons, especially Arch-Demons or Demon Lords, aren't already immortal. They don't have to eat, drink, breathe, sleep, and cannot die by mortal means... Right? I've read that in about 2,000 game manuals dealing with demons, so, I dont think thats it.
Right, its even said somewhere that the demonic form while in the Warrior's body looks nothing like Diablo's -true- form with no soulstone restriction.
Nope, his body is most likely in hell locked up by Azmodan and Belial.
If he was in true hell, technically, smashing the soulstone would effectively have -killed- Diablo forever. Or, in this case, banished him to the abyss.
Like I said, Diablo, Mephisto, and Baal's bodies were never said to have left Hell. So, yeah, -BAD- news for Azmodan and Belial.
By the way, Diablo's design, assuming it IS Diablo, for Diablo 3 has changed monumentally. He looks completely different in the pictures and whatnot for the Diablo logo's... Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps this IS what Diablo's true demonic form looks like, as its lost all scope of its "human like" form from Diablo 2 or Diablo 1.
Diablo 3 - http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/diablo-3-logo.jpg
Diablo 2- http://d2.xhost.ro/images/Diablo-2.jpg
Up to you, I think his face looks radically different in the Diablo 3 logo, though.
Technically, it does. Because I know I've read that if the Demon is killed on its home pl...
Hmm, wait, that trumps that statement... Technically, you never KILLED Diablo, you only smashed the prison he was in... I'm guessing you have to effectively KILL the -real- Diablo, in his -real- physical form, for him to be banished to the Abyss. I don't think simpyl killing his Warrior form and breaking his Soulstone would banish him to the Abyss... I think you're right, it would simpyly send his spirit back to his -real- body. Hmm... Interesting...
So, perhaps, Diablo 3 is, in a nutshell:
"Hey, we killed his host, we busted his prison, now lets go to the source and stop it for good."
Now! To give my take on the questions we need to be asking.
* Why did Mephisto stay in Kurast? To buy time for his brothers to do whatever they were supposed to do?
Mephisto already had his empire going on there. What every Prime Evil wants, I assume, is domination, and he held the entire travincal as well as most if not all of Kurast. I doubt he'd leave. Baal's original plan was to hold Lut Gholein, I believe, but that didnt pan out for him.
* Why did Diablo go to the area in Hell where the Hellforge is? To visit Izual?
This isn't able to be answered. At least, I cannot recall any type of information that would point anything out. It's possible the whole Pandemonium Fortress was demons, and, once again, the heroes were being led to kill Diablo so he could reclaim his original form. However, I dont think the "Hero characters" in Diablo 2 were stupid enough to not realize something isnt right about the pandemonium fortress... however, it does seem odd that Heaven's NEVER interacted in Mortal affairs before, but, for some reason, allows them full and total sanctuary and help to kill Diablo in Hell. Its just a little odd of Angels from what I've read, as Tyrael was like the only angel I've heard of that meddles with Humans.
* Why did Baal corrupt the Worldstone? To hide it from Heaven?
Ultimate power!!!! Effectively, as I said earlier, Mephisto's daughter corrupted it 10,000 years ago to gain power already. I don't see why Baal wouldn't try to take over the very crystal that controls all of Sanctuary himself.
* Why did the Prime Evils wait until they were imprisoned in Soulstones before they executed their plans?
I'm not really sure any plans were executed, other than corrupting local villagers to help get them out of their prisons to begin with... It's all really fuzzy, to me. Odd plan of theres... To get imprisoned, then corrupt people to help get them out, then go on a rampage, then get killed... It seems sloppy and completely ludicrous.
* How could Izual tell the Prime Evils about the soulstones even before their banishment, when logically the soulstones weren't needed yet and so Tyrael wouldn't have thought them up yet? He must have even known about the soulstones before he was corrupted.
Its possible Izual just gave the idea to Tyrael. Who knows. Again, I dont trust Izual at all.
* If the Prime Evils are now simply back in Hell, what did they actually accomplish?
They probably accomplished, well, being back in hell! Taking it back over, and putting Azmodan and Belial where they belong. I still don't believe they were purposefully kicked out. Seems more like, if it was a plan to be kicked out, they wanted to do a few scouting missions on Sanctuary and chillax until they knew it was time to be "defeated" and go back to Hell.
* What's the big plan the prime evils and Izual cooked up?
Only foundationless speculation can be made at this, as there aren't any facts backed up directly by the Diablo lore.
Anyways, I think I hit all of that. Really good ideas, concepts, and thoughts Ivaron. Lets try to make the next posts shorter though, as I'm sure this one is going to take up half a page!
They managed to get the worldstone destroyed.
Also, I could see a quest in the game requiring you to recover 'The Last Worldstone Shard', with a history like: Vendors used to sell them if they knew what they had. Through the years, a bevy of clans have banded together to destroy them all. But there is still one left. And yada-yada, maybe it could be the key to the rejuvination of the evils, idk.
I know. What I meant what, IF it was hidden, how the Hell did they all find it? (no pun intended :P)
I'm starting to think this hiding process isn't actually hiding, but more a shield in the sense that demons cannot find it on their own so long as the Worldstone is there, they have to be summoned.
However, that still leaves the problem of the Lesser Evils banishing the Prime Evils. How could they do taht, if demons have to be summoned and can't get there themselves? If they could accomplish that feat, then all the evils should have been able to muster an army and send it to Sanctuary while the stone was still in place.
Or maybe only Great Evils can get there on their own, but if that's the case, why not go to Sanctuary first, then summon demons? Is it only because of the pact with Mephisto?
Not necessarily. You need to drop the knowledge you have about other demons and see how Diablo differs
Tyrael specifically says during the last quest in Act 4 quest:
Banished, not destroyed.
Notice spawned them. So apparently that's no the Abyss either.
And how could it be? The Three are like primal forces, everything points to the fact that they cannot be irrevocably destryoed.
Most likely, that's how I always imagined it. Or, they saw greater profit in imprisoning them, instead of simply sending them back to Hell.
Where are you all getting this whole "body left in Hell" reasoning? There's never been any indication that the bodies of the Three are somehow important for their existence. They were perfectly capable of wreaking havoc without them in Diablo I and II, and could take up physical form anyway. Once again, the body is important in other demon literature, but not necessarily in Diablo because of that.
Well, Diablo's soul was still in the Soulstone at that point, which can be seen in his death animation, and the sequence, when it flies back into the soulstone after his defeat. Then, it was smashed in the Hellforge, which banished it the the Abyss, which is not the same as Hell.
Because his Sanctuary was there.
This is a question you will run into no matter where Blizzard placed him. He had to return somewhere, and it just happened to be there. It's once again a gameplay element: The Hellforge had to be there for story reasons, a River of Flame was cool, and the final dungeon was an impressive dark cathedral in gothic style that went with the game.
It's possible it has to be destroyed in Hell in order for them to be banished to the Abyss, otherwise he might just have gone back to Hell. That's speculation, but it sounds reasonable.
Doesn't make any sense, they are already immortan in the true sense, in that they cannot be destroyed permanently.
And splitting the soul or some such; even if that were possible in Diablo, there would have to be a tradeoff, one that I am not sure the Prime Evils are willing to pay when it really isn't needed.
I ask again, where does the body reasoning come from in relation to the Diablo Universe?
With Tyrael providing them with knowledge of how these things work, this seems to be most plausible. By imprisoning them, they wouldn't be dead, but they wouldn't be able to do anything either. Or so they thought.
Definately plausible. Izual was defeated, and so knew that shit was gonna come down for Diablo in a moment. The most damage he could do at that point was to lie.
I don't think it controlled everything, because then its destruciton would have wreaked much more havoc than it apparently has.
I think it was insanely complex however, and all Lilith could do without screwing up too much was change it in a minor way.
Which doesn't necessarily mean it's true for Diablo, however in this case it does seem to be.
Why? Wouldn't it make more sense for Azmodan and Belial to kill his body IN Hell and send it to the Black Abyss if it is so important?
Which doesn't necessarily mean he's dead.
Diablo probably did die at the end of Diablo II. His soulstone was smashed, effectively sending his soul back to the Black Abyss, something which had never happened before in the games.
It's more like a small outpost on the outskirts of Hell. I wouldn't be surprised if Hell had the same thing outside of Heaven, so to speak.
It's a war, you need to keep the bearing of your enemy at all times.
I don't know where people are getting the idea the worldstone weakened humans, I haven't quite finished the sin war I'm on chapter 13 now of book two, but when you first read about Rathma he explains that humans now aren't really Nephalem, but they're not weaker either. They've become something more than that, Uldyssian has some powers that Rathma doesn't and Rathma has some Uldyssian doesn't. Uldyssian doesn't even call his group Nephalem anymore, he calls them Erydem. I think they said it means, "One Who Has Seen".
If I can find it again I'll quote it exactly.
Here it is:
Also this little tidbit from Trag'Oul:
Ah after researching about it some more it seems Inarius had originally dampened the powers of the Nephalem, but Lilith altered the world stone to allow humans to regain their powers. Uldyssian is one of the first to start surfacing his power.
But the Sin War took place 3000 years before Diablo 1. So people should have no problems with getting powers back, worldstone or not by that time.
Well I think you do. The Soulstone his necessary anchor in the world; without it or a body, there's no way for him to go.
And besides, you killed his body
However, that would create problems with thembeing as spirits when the Horadrim hunted them. Hmm...
Well there's this little tidbit:
It may just indicate that it's his lair at the moment, but it could also mean it is his main lair. It's a bit ambiguous.
And again, it might a game issue. You need Diablo in the game, and you need the Hellforge, and you cannot make Act 4 humongous.
Well yes, I was mainly saying that as an explanation why Tyreal didn't destroy them. Had he been in Hell while doing it he might have been successful.
I'm saying the tradeoff is probably bigger than the gain WHILE at war. You need to be at full strength when you fight the Angiris, and if you're too weak, it doesn't matter if you don't die, becasue you still can't win.
Assuming the Banishment isn't part of the plan. I always imagined, after lsitening to Izual, that the supposed banishing was part of the soulstone plan. If the plan was set in motion "so long ago", it would have to be planned before they were sent to Sanctuary, e.g before they were exiled.
There's been a thread on that already, don't remember when though.
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