Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.
And this is where you are wrong. People play games for different reasons. A lot of people don't play just to "have fun" and screw around. Many people play to win, others play to make money, some play because they like having their efforts rewarded in the end. This is where hardcore falls flat.
Note: I do not deny that some people enjoy wasting their own times, and from that enjoyment they derive a sense of satisfaction with hardcore diablo. I, however, am not one of these people.
Huh, I must not have received my trophy in the mail from winning Diablo 3 when I beat Inferno. The Gladiator mount and title I won in Season 3 of WoW PvP must have been for nothing, as I've since uninstalled the game and, therefore, no longer have those items.
No, see, you've missed the very point I made, and you confirmed: games are for one purpose, and one purpose only - entertainment. To some, that comes from "winning" (whatever that means in Diablo 3). Having your efforts "rewarded"? That's in incredibly generalized idea, but still comes back to the very basic foundation on which you're playing in the first place: to be entertained. What tangible, practical purpose does receiving a legendary item serve? Does it look good on your resume? Can you get a drivers license with it? Can you eat it? I mean, making money, which is entirely unique to this game outside of illegal and illicit activities, is the _only_ thing you can possibly argue here, and even then, it's still not a valid point since most people don't participate in it.
Games are for entertainment, which means each and every available "mode" also serves that purpose. Just because you find one more entertaining than another, doesn't make activity B a "waste of time," since, at it's core, all of gaming is a waste of time.
And this entire conversation is why people throw around the word "troll." Because rather than simply stating an opinion like "I dislike hardcore," you assert something as fact by saying "it's a waste of time."
Actually, you're right. This is more of a list of my grievances with the game, rather than the game actually being completely broken.
Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.
And this is where you are wrong. People play games for different reasons. A lot of people don't play just to "have fun" and screw around. Many people play to win, others play to make money, some play because they like having their efforts rewarded in the end. This is where hardcore falls flat.
Note: I do not deny that some people enjoy wasting their own times, and from that enjoyment they derive a sense of satisfaction with hardcore diablo. I, however, am not one of these people.
If you don't play hardcore in Diablo, you are wasting your very own time. Ha, you lose.
If you play just to be rewarded at the end, play some single player console games that can give you that in 8 hours. Diablo has no "end", really, unless you consider getting to level 60 or clearing Inferno one. And if that's the case then you should just quit after that "end".
Anyway, you really don't seem to understand the concept of hardcore at all so I won't continue trying to get the point across, enjoy wasting your time on normal.
The Gladiator mount and title I won in Season 3 of WoW PvP must have been for nothing, as I've since uninstalled the game and, therefore, no longer have those items.
But the gladiator mount is still there, and I do believe old school gladiator mounts can be sold for significant amounts of money.
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into the hardcore vs softcore debate. As far as I can tell, there's not one argument against "hardcore is a waste of time" because really, it is. Some people find it fun, some others don't. That's another issue. Games are purely for entertainment? Another completely subjective issue that has no real conclusion. If you'd like to debate hardcore, we can talk about it in private/another thread but let's just agree to disagree here.
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into the hardcore vs softcore debate. As far as I can tell, there's not one argument against "hardcore is a waste of time" because really, it is. Some people find it fun, some others don't. That's another issue. Games are purely for entertainment? Another completely subjective issue that has no real conclusion. If you'd like to debate hardcore, we can talk about it in private/another thread but let's just agree to disagree here.
Fixed that so you don't keep promoting the hardcore/softcore debate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into the hardcore vs softcore debate. As far as I can tell, there's not one argument against "hardcore is a waste of time" because really, it is. Some people find it fun, some others don't. That's another issue. Games are purely for entertainment? Another completely subjective issue that has no real conclusion. If you'd like to debate hardcore, we can talk about it in private/another thread but let's just agree to disagree here.
It's really not a different issue. It's the entire premise for why this argument is old and stale.
You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?
When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?
Simple question and conclusion - Do you play a game that is boring, at every single level and a sheer pain to you? No, you don't.
Yes, I have continued to play games that have been boring, and a sheer pain to me.
It's really not a different issue. It's the entire premise for why this argument is old and stale.
It really is.
You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?
I've stated monetary as an example. How did you manage to miss it?
When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?
Again, my characters are still here. They could be sold for money, they could be played again by myself in the future. A friend could pick up and play my characters, etc. etc. Same cannot be said about dead hardcore characters.
You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?
I've stated monetary as an example. How did you manage to miss it?
When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?
Again, my characters are still here. They could be sold for money, they could be played again by myself in the future. A friend could pick up and play my characters, etc. etc. Same cannot be said about dead hardcore characters.
Are you playing Diablo as a job? That is, without it you would lose your house, phone, car, what have you? Chances are no. So that's out. How many people do you feel play Diablo for the sole and primary intent of making real money? I'm willing to bet that number isn't quite as overwhelming as you think it is. In fact, I'm betting it's a pretty miniscule number. The fact that it may be part of the reason people are playing (you know, as a bonus to the actual game) does not make it the primary reason people play games.
As I said before, the "monetary" reason for gaming is an incredibly small fraction of any reasonable list of reasons to play video games (and in many cases borderline illegal if done incorrectly). Video games are for entertainment. Even if I say "primarily" to include the absolutely minute amount of monetary reasons one might play a game, my point remains the same.
That point is that asserting as fact that someone else is wasting their time based on your subjective idea on what's fun, derived from inaccuracies in assumption about what intended uses are for games is, in fact, the real waste of time.
Well this thread has turned into completely pedantic reatardedness.
Are we seriously arguing that video games are NOT primarily (primarily does not mean exclusively, for the record) for entertainment? I hate to use the phrase, but that really sounds like a "first world problem" to me.
With all that said, the reason people are calling shit like this trolling is because it's the 9372849287th time it's been posted, and rather than consolidating it to a thread where this exact same discussion is already taking place, we now have a rehashed version to wade through and make the exact same comments we've already made 92759752 times before.
That point is that asserting as fact that someone else is wasting their time based on your subjective idea on what's fun, derived from inaccuracies in assumption about what intended uses are for games is, in fact, the real waste of time.
I apologize, but I can only conclude that you are incapable of reading. The subjective idea of 'fun or not' has nothing to do with determining whether or not an activity is a waste of time. Please -read- what I've posted.
Maybe an analogy will get my point across.
Let's say there's two versions of soccer, soccer A and soccer B.
They're practically the same game.
However, soccer B has a magical property (bear with me here) that in the end, you gain no health benefits from playing. You won't be a faster runner, you won't have any extra endurance, you gain no extra leg strength, etc. etc. Further, the potential for making money off playing soccer B is practically none compared to soccer A.
To me, soccer B is a waste of time because the time investment nets you nothing tangible in the end. However, there are people who enjoy soccer B over soccer A because some people find 'thrills' and 'enjoyment' knowing that what they've done will result in nothing in the end. Does this justify the existence of soccer B? It can be argued either way, but in the end it's pure opinion. Is soccer B a waste of time, most definitely (imo).
Diablo 3 gets a meta-score of 88 from a total of 85 critics ! The game MUST be broken !
First it's about a broken game posted on a forum that supports it, then it's a talk about trolls (don't know who brought that up), then it's the value of playing video games, and now soccer. Someone close this PoS thread.
Farming one thing over and over is NOT more entertaining than farming entire acts. I do agree that you should be able to log in for 5 minutes and get something done though. The whole NV system is pretty lame in my opinion. But in no way is doing the same repetitive 2 minute run over and over better than playing through an entire act.
Blizzard had the right idea in trying to get rid of Pindle-style runs, but the way they tried to solve it is pretty bad. For most people, the first 5 kills in an Act feel annoying... especially when you can get no rares with 400% MF (4 stacks).
It's been said to death... but I'll say it again. Even though farming entire acts is FAR superior to farming 1 thing over and over, that's not the problem. The problem is the rock bottom drop rates for good items resulting from the existence of an AH. I mean you still get sellable items all the time, but it's very rare to get a truly exciting item (the bad affixes are the other reason for this).
Farming one thing over and over is NOT more entertaining than farming entire acts. I do agree that you should be able to log in for 5 minutes and get something done though. The whole NV system is pretty lame in my opinion. But in no way is doing the same repetitive 2 minute run over and over better than playing through an entire act.
Blizzard had the right idea in trying to get rid of Pindle-style runs, but the way they tried to solve it is pretty bad. For most people, the first 5 kills in an Act feel annoying... especially when you can get no rares with 400% MF (4 stacks).
It's been said to death... but I'll say it again. Even though farming entire acts is FAR superior to farming 1 thing over and over, that's not the problem. The problem is the rock bottom drop rates for good items resulting from the existence of an AH. I mean you still get sellable items all the time, but it's very rare to get a truly exciting item (the bad affixes are the other reason for this).
Diablo 2 had real rock bottom drop rates. Look at the drop rate of high runes/elite unique weapons (pre-buff) and D3 drop rates look phenomenal. Drop rates are -not- the problem; the AH is also not the problem.
Diablo has always been about this. You will almost -never- find the ideal items you are looking for. Most of the loot you get will be trash. What you do find are minor sell-able items that you convert into a currency, which you then save up to buy that major item you've wanted.
To put this in perspective, in the 10 years I've been playing D2 on and off, I've never found a Windforce, Zod rune, Jah rune. The highest rune I've managed to find was 1 Ber; the best weapons I found were 1 Grand Father and 1 Schaeffer's. That means, in 10 years of playing I would have no enigma, no infinity, no fortitude, none of the top weapons without trading. That's 10 years. In 2 months of D3, I've already found items that are near the best of their class (1.2k socketed demolisher, 270 str/130 vit/79 ar shoulders, 1.5k dps socketed helion with crit damage) etc.
If anything, high quality D3 loot is too easy to obtain.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
Agreed. I'd love to see a raven frost item where dodging frozen balls are no longer an issue.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
This is what I was trying to say basically. The drop rates might be similar to D2, but in D2 more things were probably dropping.
But really I wasn't comparing the drop rates of D3 to the ones in D2. I was saying as a general statement that the drop rates are too low for the game to feel rewarding. I know it has to be this way because of the AH, but the point remains.
Also, it's not really about the drop rates, it's about how exciting the drops are. Since this game is nothing but an item farm, that's really where all the enjoyment comes from.
That's why I don't understand the idea of making ilvl 63 items terrible. It sets up a situation where people have high expectations (because ilvl 63s can be great) and then get an ilvl 63 weapon with 250 DPS. It's like getting wrapping paper as a present on Christmas.
A solution to this is to create a system where you build weapons (a much better one than current crafting). That way, when you find a great item, it doesn't have to be the item itself, but is still exciting because you're closer to building the item you want. That's just one idea of course.
By the way... the AH is garbage, I don't think anyone can convince me that it's a positive aspect to this game. Necessary maybe... but it's not good. When I find a really nice item, the enjoyment is usually curbed by having to price it and sell it on the AH. And then I get to wait until someone decides to buy it. I don't see the fun in that.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
This is what I was trying to say basically. The drop rates might be similar to D2, but in D2 more things were probably dropping.
But really I wasn't comparing the drop rates of D3 to the ones in D2. I was saying as a general statement that the drop rates are too low for the game to feel rewarding. I know it has to be this way because of the AH, but the point remains.
Also, it's not really about the drop rates, it's about how exciting the drops are. Since this game is nothing but an item farm, that's really where all the enjoyment comes from.
That's why I don't understand the idea of making ilvl 63 items terrible. It sets up a situation where people have high expectations (because ilvl 63s can be great) and then get an ilvl 63 weapon with 250 DPS. It's like getting wrapping paper as a present on Christmas.
A solution to this is to create a system where you build weapons (a much better one than current crafting). That way, when you find a great item, it doesn't have to be the item itself, but is still exciting because you're closer to building the item you want. That's just one idea of course.
By the way... the AH is garbage, I don't think anyone can convince me that it's a positive aspect to this game. Necessary maybe... but it's not good. When I find a really nice item, the enjoyment is usually curbed by having to price it and sell it on the AH. And then I get to wait until someone decides to buy it. I don't see the fun in that.
I dont think crappy item drops are the reason. D2 was exactly the same.
Truth is farming was much more tolerable in D2. Farming meph, pindle , pits were much easier. It wasnt complicated and we didnt put lots of effort into killing stuff. Therefore whenever we got crappy loot we didnt care. Because we could do it again without hassle. And it was fun to stomp everything easily.
D3 is different. For example as a WW baba i get 6-7 jailer elite packs in a row sometimes and it is really pain in the arse to get stuck between molten swift skullcleavers or demonic tremors. Or lets take invul minions affix for example. I dont even mention runners such as blood clan occultist with molten or blood clan impaler pack with nightmarish affix. It is annoying and not that easy when we compare farming pindle or meph. And when you get rid of hard packs like these you expect something valuable, at least something for your alt, reward for your efforts. Yet getting a single 54-59 rare pisses me off.
In the end we expect Xmas presents because of complicated and time wasting elite packs but we get crap. I am happy that they are nerfing inferno hard and buffing classes not because game is hard since with this drop quality its not fun to farm and its not rewarding. I think this is why casuals left the game. Because in the end you play the game for fun. I hope they will fix this effort-reward balance.
Crafting system atm is simple and boring and doesnt encourage you to craft. D2 crafting made it possible to reroll items, craft some top gear for certain slots. System was amazing since it required lots of pgems and low runes. With this it was possible for new players to farm pgems or low runes ( which was a hassle for rich players ) and get something useful by trading those.
In the end i expected much more from Diablo 3 when i bought it. New mechanics , interesting additions, creative systems. And sadly got nothing.
Ive seen one item affix from TL2 and it was brilliant. I think it was something like " Kill xxx type of mobs to upgrade this weapons damage by xxx". Now that is creative and that can surely make farming or grinding rewarding. D3 could come up with new stuff like this yet they focused too much on rmah i guess.
Sigh, i am still playing D3 yet when i think about these i feel disappointed.
The real problem, in my honest opinion, about why D3 is like this today, and why it wont change their core mechanic anytime soon, is becuase of the RMAH. They need it working 24x7 to make a profit out of it, the entire economy of the game is linked to the RMAH concept. Even if they know exactly what to do to make the game 10x better, its most likely it wont happen, because it goes against their main objetive, wich is to make a profit.
I hope Im wrong, and the gameplay and the economy model can go in parallel roads, but Im afraid is not possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Huh, I must not have received my trophy in the mail from winning Diablo 3 when I beat Inferno. The Gladiator mount and title I won in Season 3 of WoW PvP must have been for nothing, as I've since uninstalled the game and, therefore, no longer have those items.
No, see, you've missed the very point I made, and you confirmed: games are for one purpose, and one purpose only - entertainment. To some, that comes from "winning" (whatever that means in Diablo 3). Having your efforts "rewarded"? That's in incredibly generalized idea, but still comes back to the very basic foundation on which you're playing in the first place: to be entertained. What tangible, practical purpose does receiving a legendary item serve? Does it look good on your resume? Can you get a drivers license with it? Can you eat it? I mean, making money, which is entirely unique to this game outside of illegal and illicit activities, is the _only_ thing you can possibly argue here, and even then, it's still not a valid point since most people don't participate in it.
Games are for entertainment, which means each and every available "mode" also serves that purpose. Just because you find one more entertaining than another, doesn't make activity B a "waste of time," since, at it's core, all of gaming is a waste of time.
And this entire conversation is why people throw around the word "troll." Because rather than simply stating an opinion like "I dislike hardcore," you assert something as fact by saying "it's a waste of time."
If you don't play hardcore in Diablo, you are wasting your very own time. Ha, you lose.
If you play just to be rewarded at the end, play some single player console games that can give you that in 8 hours. Diablo has no "end", really, unless you consider getting to level 60 or clearing Inferno one. And if that's the case then you should just quit after that "end".
Anyway, you really don't seem to understand the concept of hardcore at all so I won't continue trying to get the point across, enjoy wasting your time on normal.
But the gladiator mount is still there, and I do believe old school gladiator mounts can be sold for significant amounts of money.
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into the hardcore vs softcore debate. As far as I can tell, there's not one argument against "hardcore is a waste of time" because really, it is. Some people find it fun, some others don't. That's another issue. Games are purely for entertainment? Another completely subjective issue that has no real conclusion. If you'd like to debate hardcore, we can talk about it in private/another thread but let's just agree to disagree here.
Fixed that so you don't keep promoting the hardcore/softcore debate.
It's really not a different issue. It's the entire premise for why this argument is old and stale.
You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?
When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?
Yes, I have continued to play games that have been boring, and a sheer pain to me.
It really is.
I've stated monetary as an example. How did you manage to miss it?
Again, my characters are still here. They could be sold for money, they could be played again by myself in the future. A friend could pick up and play my characters, etc. etc. Same cannot be said about dead hardcore characters.
Are you playing Diablo as a job? That is, without it you would lose your house, phone, car, what have you? Chances are no. So that's out. How many people do you feel play Diablo for the sole and primary intent of making real money? I'm willing to bet that number isn't quite as overwhelming as you think it is. In fact, I'm betting it's a pretty miniscule number. The fact that it may be part of the reason people are playing (you know, as a bonus to the actual game) does not make it the primary reason people play games.
As I said before, the "monetary" reason for gaming is an incredibly small fraction of any reasonable list of reasons to play video games (and in many cases borderline illegal if done incorrectly). Video games are for entertainment. Even if I say "primarily" to include the absolutely minute amount of monetary reasons one might play a game, my point remains the same.
That point is that asserting as fact that someone else is wasting their time based on your subjective idea on what's fun, derived from inaccuracies in assumption about what intended uses are for games is, in fact, the real waste of time.
Are we seriously arguing that video games are NOT primarily (primarily does not mean exclusively, for the record) for entertainment? I hate to use the phrase, but that really sounds like a "first world problem" to me.
9,372,849,287 posts - 92,759,752 comments = 9,280,089,535
Point: We're surrounded by Trolls.
I apologize, but I can only conclude that you are incapable of reading. The subjective idea of 'fun or not' has nothing to do with determining whether or not an activity is a waste of time. Please -read- what I've posted.
Maybe an analogy will get my point across.
Let's say there's two versions of soccer, soccer A and soccer B.
They're practically the same game.
However, soccer B has a magical property (bear with me here) that in the end, you gain no health benefits from playing. You won't be a faster runner, you won't have any extra endurance, you gain no extra leg strength, etc. etc. Further, the potential for making money off playing soccer B is practically none compared to soccer A.
To me, soccer B is a waste of time because the time investment nets you nothing tangible in the end. However, there are people who enjoy soccer B over soccer A because some people find 'thrills' and 'enjoyment' knowing that what they've done will result in nothing in the end. Does this justify the existence of soccer B? It can be argued either way, but in the end it's pure opinion. Is soccer B a waste of time, most definitely (imo).
Diablo 3 gets a meta-score of 88 from a total of 85 critics ! The game MUST be broken !
First it's about a broken game posted on a forum that supports it, then it's a talk about trolls (don't know who brought that up), then it's the value of playing video games, and now soccer. Someone close this PoS thread.
Farming one thing over and over is NOT more entertaining than farming entire acts. I do agree that you should be able to log in for 5 minutes and get something done though. The whole NV system is pretty lame in my opinion. But in no way is doing the same repetitive 2 minute run over and over better than playing through an entire act.
Blizzard had the right idea in trying to get rid of Pindle-style runs, but the way they tried to solve it is pretty bad. For most people, the first 5 kills in an Act feel annoying... especially when you can get no rares with 400% MF (4 stacks).
It's been said to death... but I'll say it again. Even though farming entire acts is FAR superior to farming 1 thing over and over, that's not the problem. The problem is the rock bottom drop rates for good items resulting from the existence of an AH. I mean you still get sellable items all the time, but it's very rare to get a truly exciting item (the bad affixes are the other reason for this).
Diablo 2 had real rock bottom drop rates. Look at the drop rate of high runes/elite unique weapons (pre-buff) and D3 drop rates look phenomenal. Drop rates are -not- the problem; the AH is also not the problem.
Diablo has always been about this. You will almost -never- find the ideal items you are looking for. Most of the loot you get will be trash. What you do find are minor sell-able items that you convert into a currency, which you then save up to buy that major item you've wanted.
To put this in perspective, in the 10 years I've been playing D2 on and off, I've never found a Windforce, Zod rune, Jah rune. The highest rune I've managed to find was 1 Ber; the best weapons I found were 1 Grand Father and 1 Schaeffer's. That means, in 10 years of playing I would have no enigma, no infinity, no fortitude, none of the top weapons without trading. That's 10 years. In 2 months of D3, I've already found items that are near the best of their class (1.2k socketed demolisher, 270 str/130 vit/79 ar shoulders, 1.5k dps socketed helion with crit damage) etc.
If anything, high quality D3 loot is too easy to obtain.
Can agree.
No, I have no clue. I played D2 offline, alone, always.
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
Agreed. I'd love to see a raven frost item where dodging frozen balls are no longer an issue.
This is what I was trying to say basically. The drop rates might be similar to D2, but in D2 more things were probably dropping.
But really I wasn't comparing the drop rates of D3 to the ones in D2. I was saying as a general statement that the drop rates are too low for the game to feel rewarding. I know it has to be this way because of the AH, but the point remains.
Also, it's not really about the drop rates, it's about how exciting the drops are. Since this game is nothing but an item farm, that's really where all the enjoyment comes from.
That's why I don't understand the idea of making ilvl 63 items terrible. It sets up a situation where people have high expectations (because ilvl 63s can be great) and then get an ilvl 63 weapon with 250 DPS. It's like getting wrapping paper as a present on Christmas.
A solution to this is to create a system where you build weapons (a much better one than current crafting). That way, when you find a great item, it doesn't have to be the item itself, but is still exciting because you're closer to building the item you want. That's just one idea of course.
By the way... the AH is garbage, I don't think anyone can convince me that it's a positive aspect to this game. Necessary maybe... but it's not good. When I find a really nice item, the enjoyment is usually curbed by having to price it and sell it on the AH. And then I get to wait until someone decides to buy it. I don't see the fun in that.
I dont think crappy item drops are the reason. D2 was exactly the same.
Truth is farming was much more tolerable in D2. Farming meph, pindle , pits were much easier. It wasnt complicated and we didnt put lots of effort into killing stuff. Therefore whenever we got crappy loot we didnt care. Because we could do it again without hassle. And it was fun to stomp everything easily.
D3 is different. For example as a WW baba i get 6-7 jailer elite packs in a row sometimes and it is really pain in the arse to get stuck between molten swift skullcleavers or demonic tremors. Or lets take invul minions affix for example. I dont even mention runners such as blood clan occultist with molten or blood clan impaler pack with nightmarish affix. It is annoying and not that easy when we compare farming pindle or meph. And when you get rid of hard packs like these you expect something valuable, at least something for your alt, reward for your efforts. Yet getting a single 54-59 rare pisses me off.
In the end we expect Xmas presents because of complicated and time wasting elite packs but we get crap. I am happy that they are nerfing inferno hard and buffing classes not because game is hard since with this drop quality its not fun to farm and its not rewarding. I think this is why casuals left the game. Because in the end you play the game for fun. I hope they will fix this effort-reward balance.
Crafting system atm is simple and boring and doesnt encourage you to craft. D2 crafting made it possible to reroll items, craft some top gear for certain slots. System was amazing since it required lots of pgems and low runes. With this it was possible for new players to farm pgems or low runes ( which was a hassle for rich players ) and get something useful by trading those.
In the end i expected much more from Diablo 3 when i bought it. New mechanics , interesting additions, creative systems. And sadly got nothing.
Ive seen one item affix from TL2 and it was brilliant. I think it was something like " Kill xxx type of mobs to upgrade this weapons damage by xxx". Now that is creative and that can surely make farming or grinding rewarding. D3 could come up with new stuff like this yet they focused too much on rmah i guess.
Sigh, i am still playing D3 yet when i think about these i feel disappointed.
I hope Im wrong, and the gameplay and the economy model can go in parallel roads, but Im afraid is not possible.