Nice, a thread that isn't filled with PVE fairy's worshiping all of the new game mechanics. Highly supportive of all the previously stated PVP concerns/suggestions.
You all seem very worried about RMAH, but you forget to adress a very important issue. How things are being developed in regards to PvP. After reading http://www.diablofans.com/topic/26249-diablo-3-press-event-visit/ and reading Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson I have come to a couple conclusions:
1. He doesn't want PvP to flourish at all, "Part of that is PvP isn’t our primary focus, so we want to keep it simple". Even though he acknowleges that many people will be playing the game with PvP in mind and try to make it an E-Sport, he just doesn't want that happening at all. What he doesn't understand is that we don't want an E-Sport we just want a competitive and reasonably balanced PvP enviroment.
2. He keeps trying to make PvP more and more casual, "we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round". He wants people to come in and sort of "pwn noobs with a big grin in their face". Which is okay.. but that only works for people who are new to ANY KIND OF GAMING OR ANY KIND OF PVP, and I'm sure that most of the people excited for Diablo arn't that. He also wants to purposely make PvP inbalanced "No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun". That might be the little kid's defenition of fun, but I doubt most people consider unbalanced PvP that fun.
3. Taking the casual to the extreme: Jay Wilson said, " There is no ranking. There is an invisible ranking that we use for matchmaking but it’s a per player basis" In response to the matchmaking system. Why would he even want to do that... I see no logic in that. He follows by stating, "we don’t have a “I’m a 2200 rated player and therefore I am better than you as a 2100 rated player”. What we are focusing on is a more of a progression based system which is “I am a level 20 PvPer” which means I have played a lot of PvP". This is just ... I don't get the desire for the PvP to be so casual. Finally, "Currently, we don’t even do a win/loss ratio. We might do a number of wins but not a number of losses. Even in SC, we found that the number of wins actually feels a lot better than showing a win/loss ratio. That’s why people recycle accounts because people don’t want those losses shown. So, the solution was to not show them. We want to keep it more casual." This part just made me want to punch him, how stupid can someone be.
4. His insistance in PvE when the Diablo series isn't challenging at all when keeping PvE in mind. "Whenever we run into a case where “this would be really awesome for PvE” and the PvP guys says “ that kind of screw PvP” the answer is always “shut up PvP guy, it’s awesome in PvE." Why does he want to insist in making PvE the priority by that much of a margin when the PvE system prob won't be challenging. Even in WoW where the PvE system is decently challenging a lot of people find PvP just that much more fun. Basically based on D2 people PvEd so that they could grind gear to PvP and I was pretty sure up until this press event that D3 would be the same.
Overall, I feel like the point he's missing is that PvP is a huge part of Diablo. Argueably the only reason why D2 lived for so long is because of PvP. The main reason why people feel like they need to get better gear is to own people not to SLASH DEM EZMODE GRINDABLE MONSTERS HARDER. Even though Jay Wilson wants to make PvE the primary aspect of Diablo it's not possible to keep people hooked up on Diablo by just PvEing unless there's a really good and complicated end mode PvE system with new PvE coming out every few months. Anyhow, if that does happen, he should still strive to make PvP as best as possible not fucking ignore it. Anyways, if you want you can read Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson, but I'm pretty sure you will come to the same conclusions that I have come to.
Basically my suggestions are:
-Ranking System
-Good Matchmaking System
Gear+Raiting wise leaning on 65-70% Raiting 30-35% Gear for the matchmaking values
-Just tuning down Dmg/Stuns/Slows for PvP (Have a PvP version and PvE version of a skill so it doesn't alter PvE)
Dissfunk-
I completely agree 110% to everything you said. You took the ideas right out of my head. I used to like Jay Wilson... I used to think he really wanted to make an all around good game.... boy was i wrong. being a PVPer and seeing his most recent interview... I must say.. i hate his guts. Hate him now. The guy seems to be taking a game with so much potential and destroying it. Yes the PVE will be fun for a while... BUT THAT GETS EXTREMELY OLD. What happened to putting bounties on peoples heads? or lvl 1-10 juggernaut? You grind gear to beat the shit out of people... Not just sit there and look at the pixels on your shoulders that you worked so hard to attain. I really really really dont care if its not balanced. GIMME SOME SORT OF RANKING SYSTEM. some sort of reward. Not something to show how much of a life i dont have.... "im a lvl 20 pvper". Come on....
Now i am going back to what i said before... this game seemed to have so much potential for some end game pvp. Which btw is the biggest part of end game. The PVP. Not rerolling. I cant believe Jay had the balls to say that was end game by the way. THATS NOT FREAKING END GAME. THATS beginning game. Anyway... they are possibly changing the arena into a ten minute deathmatch instead of round based? Can these people get any more stupid? I cant believe blizzard is letting these people get away with some of these ideas... So you join a 2v2 for ten minutes, and lets say you are getting steam rolled. you are going to keep getting steam rolled for ten minutes? Thats horrible. Lets say you are the ones steam rolling, you dont want to sit there for ten minutes killing the same two people over and over. Thats ridiculous. Where is the honor in that? "ok we destroyed those guys... i feel bad for them... hopefully the next team will be a little more challenging" Yea it should be round based and be over quick. And have some God damn rating attached to it THAT I CAN FREAKING SEE. not some invisable shit. A reward... please.. anything to keep people interested. If they want this game to be great, YOU CANT TELL YOUR OWN STAFF TO SHUTUP BECAUSE ITS COOL FOR PVE. Jay wilson should be fired after that interview. He clearly doesnt have the competancy to be the "mastermind" of this beautiful game that he is on the verge of destroying.
I probably wont have alot of followers on this, (i probably wont go through with it myself) but us PVPers should boycott this game completly... Dont freaking buy this shit.. and then they will see just how "small" the pvp community is. Set their shit straight. "O.. maybe we should try and satisfy both sides of the spectrum of gamers."... no shit sherlock.
It seems as though their biggest concern is balancing will get in the way. I agree... pvp should not change pve at all. They should stay seperate. But is it really that hard of programming to make it to were abilities do different things to PLAYERS? Less damage? Not like resilence, but maybe the tooltip could say "Does X% less dmg to players in the arena.. or during a duel" Seems simple to me. But i am not a programmer so maybe i am wrong.
You all seem very worried about RMAH, but you forget to adress a very important issue. How things are being developed in regards to PvP. After reading http://www.diablofans.com/topic/26249-diablo-3-press-event-visit/ and reading Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson I have come to a couple conclusions:
1. He doesn't want PvP to flourish at all, "Part of that is PvP isn’t our primary focus, so we want to keep it simple". Even though he acknowleges that many people will be playing the game with PvP in mind and try to make it an E-Sport, he just doesn't want that happening at all. What he doesn't understand is that we don't want an E-Sport we just want a competitive and reasonably balanced PvP enviroment.
2. He keeps trying to make PvP more and more casual, "we have changed the arena mode a bit to feel more casual than the mode that was at Blizzcon which was very last man standing, high-pressure, because if you died, you were done for that round". He wants people to come in and sort of "pwn noobs with a big grin in their face". Which is okay.. but that only works for people who are new to ANY KIND OF GAMING OR ANY KIND OF PVP, and I'm sure that most of the people excited for Diablo arn't that. He also wants to purposely make PvP inbalanced "No, it’s going to be horrifically imbalanced, and that’s part of the fun". That might be the little kid's defenition of fun, but I doubt most people consider unbalanced PvP that fun.
3. Taking the casual to the extreme: Jay Wilson said, " There is no ranking. There is an invisible ranking that we use for matchmaking but it’s a per player basis" In response to the matchmaking system. Why would he even want to do that... I see no logic in that. He follows by stating, "we don’t have a “I’m a 2200 rated player and therefore I am better than you as a 2100 rated player”. What we are focusing on is a more of a progression based system which is “I am a level 20 PvPer” which means I have played a lot of PvP". This is just ... I don't get the desire for the PvP to be so casual. Finally, "Currently, we don’t even do a win/loss ratio. We might do a number of wins but not a number of losses. Even in SC, we found that the number of wins actually feels a lot better than showing a win/loss ratio. That’s why people recycle accounts because people don’t want those losses shown. So, the solution was to not show them. We want to keep it more casual." This part just made me want to punch him, how stupid can someone be.
4. His insistance in PvE when the Diablo series isn't challenging at all when keeping PvE in mind. "Whenever we run into a case where “this would be really awesome for PvE” and the PvP guys says “ that kind of screw PvP” the answer is always “shut up PvP guy, it’s awesome in PvE." Why does he want to insist in making PvE the priority by that much of a margin when the PvE system prob won't be challenging. Even in WoW where the PvE system is decently challenging a lot of people find PvP just that much more fun. Basically based on D2 people PvEd so that they could grind gear to PvP and I was pretty sure up until this press event that D3 would be the same.
Overall, I feel like the point he's missing is that PvP is a huge part of Diablo. Argueably the only reason why D2 lived for so long is because of PvP. The main reason why people feel like they need to get better gear is to own people not to SLASH DEM EZMODE GRINDABLE MONSTERS HARDER. Even though Jay Wilson wants to make PvE the primary aspect of Diablo it's not possible to keep people hooked up on Diablo by just PvEing unless there's a really good and complicated end mode PvE system with new PvE coming out every few months. Anyhow, if that does happen, he should still strive to make PvP as best as possible not fucking ignore it. Anyways, if you want you can read Sixen's interview with Jay Wilson, but I'm pretty sure you will come to the same conclusions that I have come to.
Basically my suggestions are:
-Ranking System
-Good Matchmaking System
Gear+Raiting wise leaning on 65-70% Raiting 30-35% Gear for the matchmaking values
-Just tuning down Dmg/Stuns/Slows for PvP (Have a PvP version and PvE version of a skill so it doesn't alter PvE)
Dissfunk-
I completely agree 110% to everything you said. You took the ideas right out of my head. I used to like Jay Wilson... I used to think he really wanted to make an all around good game.... boy was i wrong. being a PVPer and seeing his most recent interview... I must say.. i hate his guts. Hate him now. The guy seems to be taking a game with so much potential and destroying it. Yes the PVE will be fun for a while... BUT THAT GETS EXTREMELY OLD. What happened to putting bounties on peoples heads? or lvl 1-10 juggernaut? You grind gear to beat the shit out of people... Not just sit there and look at the pixels on your shoulders that you worked so hard to attain. I really really really dont care if its not balanced. GIMME SOME SORT OF RANKING SYSTEM. some sort of reward. Not something to show how much of a life i dont have.... "im a lvl 20 pvper". Come on....
Now i am going back to what i said before... this game seemed to have so much potential for some end game pvp. Which btw is the biggest part of end game. The PVP. Not rerolling. I cant believe Jay had the balls to say that was end game by the way. THATS NOT FREAKING END GAME. THATS beginning game. Anyway... they are possibly changing the arena into a ten minute deathmatch instead of round based? Can these people get any more stupid? I cant believe blizzard is letting these people get away with some of these ideas... So you join a 2v2 for ten minutes, and lets say you are getting steam rolled. you are going to keep getting steam rolled for ten minutes? Thats horrible. Lets say you are the ones steam rolling, you dont want to sit there for ten minutes killing the same two people over and over. Thats ridiculous. Where is the honor in that? "ok we destroyed those guys... i feel bad for them... hopefully the next team will be a little more challenging" Yea it should be round based and be over quick. And have some God damn rating attached to it THAT I CAN FREAKING SEE. not some invisable shit. A reward... please.. anything to keep people interested. If they want this game to be great, YOU CANT TELL YOUR OWN STAFF TO SHUTUP BECAUSE ITS COOL FOR PVE. Jay wilson should be fired after that interview. He clearly doesnt have the competancy to be the "mastermind" of this beautiful game that he is on the verge of destroying.
I probably wont have alot of followers on this, (i probably wont go through with it myself) but us PVPers should boycott this game completly... Dont freaking buy this shit.. and then they will see just how "small" the pvp community is. Set their shit straight. "O.. maybe we should try and satisfy both sides of the spectrum of gamers."... no shit sherlock.
It seems as though their biggest concern is balancing will get in the way. I agree... pvp should not change pve at all. They should stay seperate. But is it really that hard of programming to make it to were abilities do different things to PLAYERS? Less damage? Not like resilence, but maybe the tooltip could say "Does X% less dmg to players in the arena.. or during a duel" Seems simple to me. But i am not a programmer so maybe i am wrong.
I agree but tbh I would buy the game farm gear/do casual pvp to get better I mean they are bound to make PvP more enaging because at a point people will get bored of just PvEing
How would a ladder even work in d3? Everyone on top bought their gear from the RMAH you all hate so much or d3jsp if they didn't go through with the AH. Barring any RMT then you take into account pretty much everything in d3 will be based off RNG. The MMR system couldn't be the answer because you can't have any real competition when some players will never fight other players (like rated bg's in wow before you could fight same faction). You could "twink" (purposely stay lower geared) to avoid having to fight certain people. This could even be exploited by a bunch of people to tie up all the top spots if the best players got together and decided to fix their mmr so they never fight each other. Look at wow arena drama and you know things like that would happen right away.
WoW raiding gear is completely useless in pvp and look at the huge number of people that endlessly farm that... You guys not being able to understand why anyone would farm for gear if not pvp is a very small minority of players, despite what you'd like to believe. Also if you think Blizzard of all companies can't make challenging pve content, well I don't know what to tell you.
If you want a game with a huge grind, tons of rng, unbalanced pvp, and a ranking system, they already have that game it's called Aion. If you want competitive pvp you could always get gw2 as well, there's no gear grind at all there so you could pve on d3 and pvp on gw2, those 2 games combined are going to be my complete MMO replacement for the next few years, no monthly fees!
How would a ladder even work in d3? Everyone on top bought their gear from the RMAH you all hate so much or d3jsp if they didn't go through with the AH. Barring any RMT then you take into account pretty much everything in d3 will be based off RNG. The MMR system couldn't be the answer because you can't have any real competition when some players will never fight other players (like rated bg's in wow before you could fight same faction). You could "twink" (purposely stay lower geared) to avoid having to fight certain people. This could even be exploited by a bunch of people to tie up all the top spots if the best players got together and decided to fix their mmr so they never fight each other. Look at wow arena drama and you know things like that would happen right away.
WoW raiding gear is completely useless in pvp and look at the huge number of people that endlessly farm that... You guys not being able to understand why anyone would farm for gear if not pvp is a very small minority of players, despite what you'd like to believe. Also if you think Blizzard of all companies can't make challenging pve content, well I don't know what to tell you.
If you want a game with a huge grind, tons of rng, unbalanced pvp, and a ranking system, they already have that game it's called Aion. If you want competitive pvp you could always get gw2 as well, there's no gear grind at all there so you could pve on d3 and pvp on gw2, those 2 games combined are going to be my complete MMO replacement for the next few years, no monthly fees!
They aren't asking for some huge E-Sports level PvP. They just want a few simple things that would make PvP a bit more enjoyable than d2s PvP. The thing that irritates PvP players most is that it seems that instead of even just letting PvP happen, it seems that they purposely want to KILL it. It's one thing to ignore balancing and so forth but to potentially actively try to remove it without actually removing it. The only reason they appear to be keeping PvP in any fashion is just to get more sales out of the game. The "arena mode" doesn't count as them trying to give us PvP, especially if they make it like halos bullshit battles.
I disagree they are trying to kill anything though. Just that they don't want to implement a horribly imbalanced ladder system that will cause endless amounts of qq because it's not fair, probably leading to more sub cancellations than just not adding the ladder to begin with. I see it as blizz not wanting to put their name or support on something that will be a huge joke.
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Dissfunk-
I completely agree 110% to everything you said. You took the ideas right out of my head. I used to like Jay Wilson... I used to think he really wanted to make an all around good game.... boy was i wrong. being a PVPer and seeing his most recent interview... I must say.. i hate his guts. Hate him now. The guy seems to be taking a game with so much potential and destroying it. Yes the PVE will be fun for a while... BUT THAT GETS EXTREMELY OLD. What happened to putting bounties on peoples heads? or lvl 1-10 juggernaut? You grind gear to beat the shit out of people... Not just sit there and look at the pixels on your shoulders that you worked so hard to attain. I really really really dont care if its not balanced. GIMME SOME SORT OF RANKING SYSTEM. some sort of reward. Not something to show how much of a life i dont have.... "im a lvl 20 pvper". Come on....
Now i am going back to what i said before... this game seemed to have so much potential for some end game pvp. Which btw is the biggest part of end game. The PVP. Not rerolling. I cant believe Jay had the balls to say that was end game by the way. THATS NOT FREAKING END GAME. THATS beginning game. Anyway... they are possibly changing the arena into a ten minute deathmatch instead of round based? Can these people get any more stupid? I cant believe blizzard is letting these people get away with some of these ideas... So you join a 2v2 for ten minutes, and lets say you are getting steam rolled. you are going to keep getting steam rolled for ten minutes? Thats horrible. Lets say you are the ones steam rolling, you dont want to sit there for ten minutes killing the same two people over and over. Thats ridiculous. Where is the honor in that? "ok we destroyed those guys... i feel bad for them... hopefully the next team will be a little more challenging" Yea it should be round based and be over quick. And have some God damn rating attached to it THAT I CAN FREAKING SEE. not some invisable shit. A reward... please.. anything to keep people interested. If they want this game to be great, YOU CANT TELL YOUR OWN STAFF TO SHUTUP BECAUSE ITS COOL FOR PVE. Jay wilson should be fired after that interview. He clearly doesnt have the competancy to be the "mastermind" of this beautiful game that he is on the verge of destroying.
I probably wont have alot of followers on this, (i probably wont go through with it myself) but us PVPers should boycott this game completly... Dont freaking buy this shit.. and then they will see just how "small" the pvp community is. Set their shit straight. "O.. maybe we should try and satisfy both sides of the spectrum of gamers."... no shit sherlock.
It seems as though their biggest concern is balancing will get in the way. I agree... pvp should not change pve at all. They should stay seperate. But is it really that hard of programming to make it to were abilities do different things to PLAYERS? Less damage? Not like resilence, but maybe the tooltip could say "Does X% less dmg to players in the arena.. or during a duel" Seems simple to me. But i am not a programmer so maybe i am wrong.
WoW raiding gear is completely useless in pvp and look at the huge number of people that endlessly farm that... You guys not being able to understand why anyone would farm for gear if not pvp is a very small minority of players, despite what you'd like to believe. Also if you think Blizzard of all companies can't make challenging pve content, well I don't know what to tell you.
If you want a game with a huge grind, tons of rng, unbalanced pvp, and a ranking system, they already have that game it's called Aion. If you want competitive pvp you could always get gw2 as well, there's no gear grind at all there so you could pve on d3 and pvp on gw2, those 2 games combined are going to be my complete MMO replacement for the next few years, no monthly fees!
They aren't asking for some huge E-Sports level PvP. They just want a few simple things that would make PvP a bit more enjoyable than d2s PvP. The thing that irritates PvP players most is that it seems that instead of even just letting PvP happen, it seems that they purposely want to KILL it. It's one thing to ignore balancing and so forth but to potentially actively try to remove it without actually removing it. The only reason they appear to be keeping PvP in any fashion is just to get more sales out of the game. The "arena mode" doesn't count as them trying to give us PvP, especially if they make it like halos bullshit battles.