This will be a long post but it should be fairly interesting if you are looking forward to diablo 3, so don't dismiss it right away please.
Imho I am worried about diablo 3. Hear me out please and take all my points into consideration. I feel that they are not being original enough with diablo 3. Yes I am going to say it, "world of warcraft" but really I don't have any problem whatsoever with that game. In fact when I played it I enjoyed it thoroughly. The only reason I quit playing was because it ended up becoming more like an actual job rather than fun. My real quarrel is that they just aren't being original enough with diablo 3 and maybe they simply lost their blizzard touch on this one.
Again if you are still with me, hear me out please because I would really like to get my point across in detail. I will list a bunch of reasons regarding why I've decided I am worried about diablo 3 and potentially future blizzard games. Some regard to WoW and some regard to the game itself, some points just regarding blizzard in general. Keep in mind my main focus here isn't to compare it to WoW its simply to compare my points to the unoriginality that's being pushed on Diablo 3.
I will be bringing up some old points and some new ones. But again I would really like you to follow through with me and take a Look and see where I am coming from because really I am worried about D3 and future blizzard products. I have no doubt D3 will be fun but it isn't the diablo 3 I envisioned when I was imagining what it would be like when I was playing diablo 2. I know everyone out there that played D2 envisioned what a diablo 3 would be like in their own minds in the future. I have to say that I didn't envision D3 to be anything like what they were and still are creating.
I will list my reasons for the personal conclusion that I've come to and please keep an open mind. This comes down to originality and making diablo 3 as good as it can be and what it should and could have been like with the right minds doing the right job.
1.My link This is a link to the dark cultist. Copy and paste undead WoW. They could have been a bit more original on this. Yes doing things like this saves time but... it just cuts the originality of Diablo and its sequel #3 like a hot knife through butter. This point is insignificant, but what it really comes down to is if they are going to do something as obvious as this WHO KNOWS how many more of these there could be in the game that were just copy and pasted? That is really a scary thought.
2. Diablo 3 items when they first released information about them were originally going to be in a unique- then -epic order with epic items being purple colored and the best you could get until the community outraged and it was changed (at least I think it was changed?). Even if it wasn't changed the point stands on an originality basis.
3. The original Character screen U.I that can be seen in the original gameplay trailer found on the D3 website. Basically copy and pasted from world of warcraft. Again, it isn't WoW being the problem, its the unoriginal eye being scoured into D3 like some hot twisted piece of metal. Yes it was changed for the better, but what kind of product would we have got if we never said anything about their work??
4. The stylized art style. I know its a hot topic and we all know it isn't going to change because it would basically be resetting everything they have done. That isn't the point though and I'm not asking them to change it I'm just dropping it into the melting pot of my overall concerns.
When I first envisioned diablo 3 I envisioned something like this. My link
I really have to admit that I did not envision anything like this.. My link
5. Health orbs. Yes they feel very arcade like and everyone knows they could do a better job on it rather than putting floating red globes everywhere for health. We all know there can't be any more potion spamming because that just doesn't work but floating red balls that pop out of enemies? Come on, we all know they can do better than this so what the hell is going on? Imho I really do think they lost their touch on this project.
6. 60 level limit now. I think this speaks for itself. Nothing really wrong with it but it isn't original for diablo 3, it isn't a good idea in my opinion and it kind of ruins skill tree's based on the fact that you wont have the amount of points to play around with that you did in D2. Once you finish hell you should be level 60. I'm just wondering if there's going to be mounts at 40 now based on this unoriginality thumb print that I can't seem to wash out of my eyes for diablo 3. Just because something works in another game doesn't mean its the best solution and the best idea.
7. The glowing aspects of the game that just look ugly and dumbs the game down. Take the original gameplay trailer as example. The skeletons have glowing shields, the entire area under the dungeon is glowing. There's virtually no realistic firelight radius at all. The glowing weapons on the barbarian that deal extra lightning/ice damage is way to excessive. It's just all too pretty for diablo 3. Just refer to this picture again. My link This is what it's all about. Not ridiculous amounts of glowing objects/areas however that seems to be the theme on what diablo 3 is based around.
8. Only 4 characters per game based on how intense the visuals are. Here's an idea... tone the visuals down? The combat doesn't have to be a giant glowing rainbow bomb unless they want it to be.
9. None-changing area's. Only dungeons are randomly changed. The outside world is static. I find this completely boring if the level cap will be 60 and if we will finish hell by level 60 I see a very boring game that will be a lot less repetitive than D2.
10. The original U.I bag system. Basically copy pasted from WoW. I'll say it one more time since this is a long post and you tend to forget things said earlier, this isn't about WoW its just about the unoriginal take on the entire project. They wanted to add little tiny pixel icons for our gear images. A HUGE part of diablo is seeing your gear and having it look awesome in your inventory. That is why the tetris inventory was so unique and cool. If we never said anything about it, we would have had the same u.i as WoW's aside from the hotkey bar and the orbs on the sides. Again, not about WoW, just about the unoriginal take on diablo 3's entire project and the entire idea it seems was to make it less like diablo with everything. Yes it was changed for the better because people voiced their concerns. If no one did that... well I'll leave it up to you to decide what the end result would have been.
11. Frozen stat allocation. Another hot topic. I am 50-50 on this for obvious reasons such as equality among players however the loss of it making it less like diablo and the loss of customization was rather disappointing.
At the moment I can't think of any other reasons to prove my point that I am very concerned with diablo 3 and concerned for diablo 3's unoriginality and the ideas and gameplay that made blizzard what it did at the time of D2//warcraft 3. When I look at diablo 3 what pops into my mind on what they have done so far is "what was the easiest solution", "What can we copy and paste that will work?", "lets do what will save the most time and resources". Even if those statements are not true in reality over at blizzard that is what pops into my head when I take quick glances at Diablo 3 and then when I look at everything all together... oh man.
Imho those are the first things that pop into my head when I take a real good look at Diablo 3 so far. I'm just worried about diablo 3 and future blizzard products in general if they are going to keep doing this crap again and again then that REALLY worries me.
I mean just think about what we would end up with if we didn't voice ANY concerns about the game at all. Really think about that and re-read my points as much as you want. Just remember, what would we get if we didn't say anything about their progress?
Anyway, I hope you thought this was interesting and at least insightful on some level or another. Fun may it still be, the point is what it could have been. In the end my main goal with this was to at least open some peoples eye's just a little bit so we don't end up accepting everything we get without question. If we do that we will all end up like console gamers in the very near future. My hats off to all the people who DID voice concerns on points #2, #3 and #10 so that they were changed for the better. Just think what we would have had if they never took our advice or heeded out concerns? Imho if anything I hope if any blizzard eyes actually end up reading this that this gives them some more motivation to make it the best diablo 3 that they can.
After waiting for so long we are all worried about Diablo III. I for one am most worried about the graphics, which could create a different atmosphere than we had in Diablo II (your 4th point). Also the health orb thing sound too arcade oriented to me (your 5th point). Without having access to the game to actually play it and see how it looks and feels I'll be left with my worries.
About WoW and Diablo III originality. I'm not bothered much by WoW influence in Diablo III. If anything it was to be expected and I welcome it. It is virtually impossible (and illogical) for Blizzard not to use some of the experience they have gathered from one of the most successful games in history. Also, Blizzard probably wants to attract as many of its WoW players to Diablo, hence a similar UI is a no brainer (hey, maybe we'll get mods for Diablo, as we do for WoW. Who knows).
3. It's not copy pasted from WoW. It is similar, but different. You don't have a character portrait, the health and mana/rage/energy aren't displayed as bars near the portrait, you don't have the clutter generated by WoW's myriad of action bars all over the place. Also no mini-map.
4. Yes, this worries me as well.
5. Same as 4.
6. I don't get you there. You don't like the number 60 because WoW's cap was 60 when it was released? It's really just a number with no impact on anything.
7. Trailers are supposed to be shiny and eye catching. I have a feeling the rest of the game won't be as shiny as the trailer
sadly we wont be getting any mods. They have confirmed no mods for d3.
I have to disagree with you on #6. If we reach level 60 by finishing hell and we do not have a world that is randomly generated I see a game that won't be as repetitive as D2. D2 people forget had random generated areas everywhere. People forget that a lot.
I can live with everything on that list EXCEPT for the 4 player multiplayer limit. I think that it is totally lame to impose a 4 player cap. Lift the max players possible back up to 8. If people find that more than 4 players is too much than people can just create their multiplayer games with a 4 player cap... But at least give us a chance if we want to play with more than 3 friends ...
I'm going to have to agree with you on the picture. The graphix should be scalable from crap all the way up super awesome amazing that only the top pc's can handle. Never ever should a game be in some blan mid range area so everyone can use the same setting. I have a pretty nice pc and I'm sorry but because of that I deserve to see a sweet picture that I can really fall into. If you don't have an awesome pc that's unfortunate. You should save up for one.
I have not thought much on the health globes as I was just kinda going with the flow on this one.
I'm not too worried about the lvl 60 cap for a couple reasons.... First we were never told how much exp we need for each lvl. For all we know it could take a month to get from 59 to 60. Second I'm pretty sure we were told by Jay that they are working on a really fun end game to give it shelf life. An end game that isn't just grinding to the top level. I'm sorry but that sounds original to me being this isn't an MMO like WOW. ( for all you single player fans ) I'm afraid we might have to stop wishing for a game that's exactly like D2. If it were going to be the same exact game I don't see much point in making a D3 in the first place. Why don't we all just play d2 so we never have to worry about change.(sarcasm) Blizzard hasn't make a bad game yet and until one is installed on my Pc I have faith in the guys and gals over there.
Wow. Way to be an ass twords people with lower end PC's lol. I can barley run Sc2. I'm hoping I'll be able to run D3. Thats not fair to the people who cant get ahold of super mega ultra computers. I dont think everyone playing D2 right now has super mega ultra computers and why would blizzard make it so they cant play D3? Thats just my opinion though.
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Wow. Way to be an ass twords people with lower end PC's lol. I can barley run Sc2. I'm hoping I'll be able to run D3. Thats not fair to the people who cant get ahold of super mega ultra computers. I dont think everyone playing D2 right now has super mega ultra computers and why would blizzard make it so they cant play D3? Thats just my opinion though.
Are you suggesting that games should deliberately not be made to the potential which is capable by the development team just because some people cant afford a gaming pc? I have to agree with sanchet, when I fork out money for a new release game I expect to see the latest developments in gaming technology ( both audio and visual ). The same way as if I were to go and watch a new action movie at the cinemas I would expect to see cutting edge special effects, not special effects from 10 years ago.
I want the visuals and audio of Diablo3 to blow me away, even if it makes my current gaming rig blow smoke.
Point 1: I highly doubt anything in D3 is copypasted from WoW. Yes, models might be very similar, but that's not the same thing really.. I've seen undeads in robes in WoW - yea. But I've also seen walking skeletons in D2 before seeing them in WoW.. I don't think everything has to be "original" to be good. A cultist in a robe is a cultist in a robe, a zombie is a zombie.
Point 2: That is such a minor thing I wouldn't be worried about.. Sure they made a mistake thinking that we would want it to be unified with wow, and that might ring some alarms that they are thinking too much about WoW, but they also show that they listen to the feedback from older Diablo-players. Which is a good thing :).
Point 3: Firstly, that trailer is quite old, who knows what they have changed from there. Secondly.. it is not copy pasted. The only real "influence" from WoW is that they decided to go with an actionbar. Thirdly, you said it's better now. So what's the problem? It's stupid to do something original just for the sake of being original. Original /= good
Point 4: On this part I'll agree with you considering the pictures we've seen. I think they'll work it out a little bit better in the end, and I'm not all that concerned about it, but I do agree they could make it a bit grittier.
Point 5-9: I'll have to save those for later since I gotta go back to work :P.
@9. The outside world is static? My worst fears come true. :ohmy:
i'll just go buy sc2 instead...
The outside world is semi-static. Basic roads and key locations are permanent, with sections that alter aesthetically and with mobs and randomized quests. We've known that for over a year, though.
I'd be more worried about tangible things, problems that have occurred with Starcraft 2 lately. The lack of patching in a timely manner, the Battle.net issues such as dropping, not being able to connect, downtime without cause, bad custom support, lack of chat channels from the start, etc.
I'm not worried about the game itself. Starcraft 2 was awesome, and I think D3 will be too. Diablo 3 isn't catered to niche people, it is what it is and it's been under the microscope for over two years now. It's not copy-pasta, you can draw those sort of comparisons with a lot of things. I'd rather have polish with a not so original UI idea than a broken new UI. It's going to look pretty on a high end machine, but able to run on something a few years old, as all Blizzard games do. That has been their philosophy for as long as they've been making games, I dunno why it's suddenly an issue. :\ The graphics for me are beautiful, one person said it was the "World of Diablo rendered to look like a painting." I agree.
I also believe the max player count hasn't been finalized yet, no? The level cap is also a ridiculous argument. If it takes you the same amount to get from 60 to 99, and is balanced around the game itself, what is the problem? Complaining for the sake of complaining? I'm legitimately curious.
EDIT: It makes me giggle when you say they were just copy-pasting to save time. If they were trying to save time, then why am I not able to play D3 before the apocalypse?
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It was for that very reason the overworld in Diablo II was boring and the vast majority of people just skipped it and got rushed. Now that it's semi-static (not "static," like everyone is saying still), they can actually focus more on interesting, beautiful, or terrifying environments since they don't have to worry about how x square plugs in to y square. The outside environments they've shown so far look absolutely stellar by comparison, and that stuff isn't even final. It's aesthetically interesting to see all the different little bits they can put in now, all the intricate details, that they couldn't in Diablo II. In Diablo II, you have a bunch of completely flat, 10x10 mile grass plots, maybe a house with nothing of interest in or around it, and then a fence lining the area. The only area that I really considered an exception to this was the Dark Wood and Act III. I think most of your memories are either clouded with nostalgia or just really, really bad.
First, let me begin by saying that you will not get too many positive responses from a post like this. This is, afterall, a Diablo Fan site. This is not to say that your points are not valid but don't be surprised when many people here argue against you on those points. Many people here like the way the game is going and not everyone wants the game to come out how you have envisioned it. With that said, I will go point by point and discuss your ideas. Please take the time to read them as I took reading your points.
1.My link This is a link to the dark cultist. Copy and paste undead WoW. They could have been a bit more original on this. Yes doing things like this saves time but... it just cuts the originality of Diablo and its sequel #3 like a hot knife through butter. And let's be honest with each other, if they are going to do something as obvious as this WHO KNOWS how many more of these there could be in the game that were just copy and pasted?
I am not seeing how the cultist from D3 is a copy/paste of the undead from WoW. The undead from WoW were treated more as anrachist type characters with their mohawk hair-dos and bondage straps across their faces. Their bones often showed and their faces rarely complete. The cultist is a semi-living creature with his mouth sewn shut. His flesh is still intact and their eyes glow green. If you want to narrow it down precisely to and undead mage/priest wearing a robe, then the comparison is easy because it is two people standing in full robes. Is it their clothing choice you have a problem with. I really like the specific look of the robes of the cultist with the pointy hat and cool arm thingy. Either way, yes, no both you have a human type character but someone who shows signs of death. However, each one is stylized for their intended purposes.
2. Diablo 3 items when they first released information about them were originally going to be in a unique- then -epic order with epic items being purple colored and the best you could get until the community outraged and it was changed (at least I think it was changed?). Even if it wasn't changed the point stands on an originality basis.
Ok, when item colors are chosen, their are a limit of colors to choose from. Basically your regular colors red-purple, white, grey. Black and red however will not be used because black would not show up and there is too much red normally on the screen. White is for normal, blue for magic, green for set, yellow for rare. This leaves orange and purple. Gold was originally used and it was too similar to yellow. Orange would probably be the same. Therefore, the only choice left is purple. It really remains to be the only color that is different enough but has not been used. Do you have a different suggestion? Each item color has to be distinguishable and there are just no other colors to use. Do you just want them change the colors around. Most of them were already iconic of D2.
3. The original U.I that can be seen in the original gameplay trailer found on the D3 website. Basically copy and pasted from world of warcraft. Again, it isn't WoW being the problem, its the unoriginal eye being scoured into D3 like some hot twisted piece of metal. Yes it was changed for the better, but what kind of product would we have got if we never said anything about their work??
How is the diablo ui anything like the wow ui. Other than both use a hotkeys, Diablo 1-5 and wow uses 1-+ plus a possible three more rows. as far as health and energy, diablo's bookend the hotbar and wows is at top. I am just not seeing the similarity. Please point out some specifics to me. Oh, other than the map being in the top right corner which 95% of all games do.
4. The stylized art style. I know its a hot topic and we all know it isn't going to change because it would basically be resetting everything they have done. That isn't the point though and I'm not asking them to change it I'm just dropping it into the melting pot of my overall concerns.
When I first envisioned diablo 3 I envisioned something like this. My link
I really have to admit that I did not envision anything like this.. My link
With the art style. First off, everyone is only comparing it to the one area from the first gameplay vid.I have yet to hear any complaints from the Act 2. The area is stylized in a particular way to express a particular environment. Nobody has seen the vast amounts of areas and dungeons that they have created. With that said, there is a lot that goes into art style in a videogame then most people know. Making an awesome area for a screenshot is easy. Having that same area be playable both hardware wise and gameplay wise is completely different. With hardward, Blizzard tries to lower their graphic needs so more people can play their games. If you have a problem with this, then bring it up with the hundreds of thousands of diablo fans who cannot afford a new computer but still want to play the game. Secondly, in the screen shot you presented, it looks nice for a screen shot but actually playing in an area where everything is the same color does not work too well. But what it mostly comes down to is hardware restrictions. you might want to look at some of the blood-soaked desert screen shots from the last demo and see if that seems more like what you pictured.
I like this one with the "realistic" cliffs and the monsters in the foreground coming at you.
5. Health orbs. Yes they feel very arcade like and everyone knows they could do a better job on it rather than putting floating red globes everywhere for health. We all know there can't be any more potion spamming because that just doesn't work but floating red balls that pop out of enemies? Come on, we all know they can do better than this.
The debate about the look of the health orbs have gone on for awhile now. While I think that they could do more, again, keep in mind that there are hardware limitations that they are trying to work with. Some awesome graphic of the persons soul leaving their body and misting their way towards you and then you absorbing it with every enemy would be way too taxing on the system. Also again, remember, what works in a screen shot does not work for gameplay and vice versa. While in a single still shot they look out of place, remember that they have to create something that will stick out amongst dozens of enemies that are big and bright enough for you to recognize at a moments glance. If you have a better way of creating a drop that is clearly always visible yet doesnt require too much graphics, please let me know.
6. 60 level limit now. I think this speaks for itself. Nothing really wrong with it but it isn't original for diablo 3, it isn't a good idea in my opinion and it kind of ruins skill tree's based on the fact that you wont have the amount of points to play around with that you did in D2. Once you finish hell you should be level 60. I'm just wondering if there's going to be mounts at 40 now based on this unoriginality thumb print that I can't seem to watch out of my eyes for diablo 3. Just because something works in another game doesn't mean its the best solution and the best idea.
I think Bashiok did a pretty good job of explaining how it is not wow in his post. Wow is not the only game to use sixty. As for lowering the level. I personally like it because it seems more rewarding hitting that level. Getting a level every ten minutes does not feel rewarding. I think leveling through 30 on normal, 20 on nightmare, and 10 on hell is very similar to D2. maybe shy about ten levels but who knows how this game plays out. There is also a lot they have planned for end-game content so you wont be grinding baal for no reason other than to hit 99. AS for reasoning the idea with skills, nobody has any idea how the new skill system works. Lowering the level may have no affect on the system at all. It might not even be a point per level system.
7. The glowing aspects of the game that just look ugly and dumbs the game down. Take the original gameplay trailer as example. The skeletons have glowing shields, the entire area under the dungeon is glowing. There's virtually no realistic firelight radius at all. The glowing weapons on the barbarian that deal extra lightning/ice damage is way to excessive. It's just all too pretty for diablo 3. Just refer to this picture again. My link This is what it's all about. Not ridiculous amounts of glowing objects/areas however that seems to be the theme on what diablo 3 is based around.
Again, you are not taking into account pciture vs gameplay. With all of the glowing, this is to help signify and help particular components stand out at a quick glance. Also again, you are not taking into account the toll perfect/realistic lighting requires from your computer. If lowering the lighting quality means a couple thousand more people can play, I'm ok with that. As far as the barbs weapons, those were said to be the high end of each of those elements looks. The first will be something like a slight shading, the next mayeb a glow, and finally the full blown graphics we saw. Again, this is also to help them standout against everything else.
8. Only 4 characters per game based on how intense the visuals are. Here's an idea... tone the visuals down? The combat doesn't have to be a giant glowing rainbow bomb unless they want it to be.
The four player limit is not only due to graphical strain. It has a lot to do with gameplay. Blizzard tests their games daily and I am sure they decided what was best based upon actual playing experience. There is also the point that many people did not play with more than four in a room, at least not all within close proximity. this is just proof that this number will work. Of course, some people will be upset because they wanted to play with their seven friends but the same argument could be used for a 20 player cap.
9. None-changing area's. Only dungeons are randomly changed. The outside world is static. I find this completely boring if the level cap will be 60 and if we will finish hell by level 60 I see a very boring game that will be a lot less repetitive than D2.
This is not correct. Borders and major cities are static, but a lot of the map is randomized. In fact, they have a whole new system that will randomly put in events and quests so that everytime you play the game, it will be different. Oddly, the reason for the static map is the very argument you have been making. With a static map, graphics can improve because they dont have to worry about creating all sorts of pieces that will fit together. They can create better looks based upon this which is exactly what you want. Again, this comes to gameplay and hardware demand. To lower the hardware demand but keep graphics looking good, they decided to make it static. If they didnt and the graphics were worse, many people would complain about this.
Overall, I think you and all of us know way to little to pass such judgment on the game. However, it is also important to remember that they are making a game and not pictures. What works well in a fast paced action packed scene does not always look best in a still.
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I see you are an intellectual and have a high understanding of art, OP. First of all, I have to tell you that ScyberDragon is a retarded psuedo-intellectual fanboy. Don't even bother thinking over what shit he spews. He generalizes people here quite easily, as if people like Diablo series, then they are going to love almost every little aspect of the upcoming new one that they didn't even play yet. Being a member here after several weeks myself, it seems to me that people here have very different ideas from each other. And 'many people here like the way the game is going'? Many? Many doesn't mean 'most'. If 'many' people won't agree with OP, then I can quite easily say, as he did, 'many' people will also agree with OP, including me. When I made that topic regarding how ugly health globes have looked, most of the people who posted on that topic agreed with me. I wonder if anyone remembers that giant thread about D3 being too cartoony? Most of the people who posted on that topic disagreed that visuals were bad, but most of them complained about colors of light. People here have different ideas for different aspects of D3. Many, large number of, won't mean anything in the end as to comparing numbers, except him showing his poor wits. Nevermind that stupid shit smelling asshat troll. Anyways I don't agree with most of your points, OP. I won't bother to talk about gameplay because I'm sure it will be good and better than before, thats what makes Blizzard Blizzard, I trust them in this. Though I agree with you about visuals. However the picture you've sent have way too detailed texture, I don't think it would be possible to run it smoothly in a 3D engine even though you had the best system available on market. However they could still easily change colors. And I don't see the point of such retarded asshats -such as ScyberDragon- saying you should see every possible color in a dungeon. That's retarded. A dungeon should be dark, a place where you don't see colors much, in fact where you accidentally could click wrong monster and wouldn't be able to tell the difference between monsters. That's what creepy about dungeons and if you want to make a science fiction environment then don't name it dungeon. And yes, some monsters you mentioned have too much stupid shiny stuff on them. Green/blue light coming out of candles bad choice too. And those big red floating orbs getting dropped from monsters as if coming out of nowhere and are even bigger than those monsters in size... Retarded. They could have done much better, they have done very pretty effects for witch doctor's skill 'soul absorb' - those red orbs just showing them being lazy. You could have easily noticed that red glow where in fact people could easily notice even tiny red potions in Diablo 2. Some people here don't even think on such negative aspects. I bet if mcfatty Wilson said that they had done a better health globe all those fanboys would say oh look how old ones looked ugly. Well they are all retarded anyway...
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Diablo hates Jay Wilson.
Diablo thanks God for creating obesity and ugliness.
A dungeon should be dark, a place where you don't see colors much, in fact where you accidentally could click wrong monster and wouldn't be able to tell the difference between monsters. That's what creepy about dungeons and if you want to make a science fiction environment then don't name it dungeon.
A dungeon should be dark, a place where you don't see colors much, in fact where you accidentally could click wrong monster and wouldn't be able to tell the difference between monsters. That's what creepy about dungeons and if you want to make a science fiction environment then don't name it dungeon.
Turn off your monitor. That should do the trick.
Also, quit your insolent manners kid.
Wow your sheer intelligent words crushed me. I'm stunned and can't find a fucking word to say.
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Diablo hates Jay Wilson.
Diablo thanks God for creating obesity and ugliness.
A dungeon that would be very dark, a place where you don't see colors much, in fact where you accidentally could click wrong monster and wouldn't be able to tell the difference between monsters? That's retarded
corrected.
what's the point in having an environment if you cant see it?
what's the point in designing different kinds of monsters if you can't see them?
and you say the current way is retarded? :whistling:
On the health globe matter... They cant be as the Witch Doctor's skill. Cause they aren't a skill. They're a mechanic to eliminate mindless potion clicking and provide a more tactical gameplay.
Was that wall of text intentionally created to discourage people from actually reading and (inevitably) disagreeing with you?
Just asking :rolleyes:
I am confused as to why I am a psuedo-intellctual asshat. Is it because I give actual reasoning behind my opinions and decisions so that others can understand where I am coming from?
Also, I never claimed to speak for everyone. I merely stated that on a dfans site, you are not going to get many people agreeing with you when you complain about diablo, a game none of us have even plays yet. However, some users do agree with me as posted.
Ironically, you agreed with some of my points. As fr the color and art, again everyone who is upset with the art is basing their opinion on the entire game from one area that has been shown. As for making the dungeon so dark you can't see what you are clicking, this is a horrible idea for a game where you need to click on hundreds of monsters. If you personally want it that dark, just adjust the brightness. As for the rainbow of colors, there is a lot more to art than just "I want it dark". Asking anyone who studied art and they will tell you it is not that simple. For the bright and glow things everywhere, again, this is so it is noticeable at a quick glance. When you have dozens of stuff on the screen at once, you need to be able to have a way to make each thing look significantly different.
Sorry if this once again sounds like I'm trying to be intellectual. If it helps, let me just say "you guys don't know what you are talking about. You have never made a videogame so you have know idea how to make a good one. I is a fan boy and diablo is perfect".
By the way, I don't agree with every choice they have made, I am just simply giving you reasoning behind the choices they have made.
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Imho I am worried about diablo 3. Hear me out please and take all my points into consideration. I feel that they are not being original enough with diablo 3. Yes I am going to say it, "world of warcraft" but really I don't have any problem whatsoever with that game. In fact when I played it I enjoyed it thoroughly. The only reason I quit playing was because it ended up becoming more like an actual job rather than fun. My real quarrel is that they just aren't being original enough with diablo 3 and maybe they simply lost their blizzard touch on this one.
Again if you are still with me, hear me out please because I would really like to get my point across in detail. I will list a bunch of reasons regarding why I've decided I am worried about diablo 3 and potentially future blizzard games. Some regard to WoW and some regard to the game itself, some points just regarding blizzard in general. Keep in mind my main focus here isn't to compare it to WoW its simply to compare my points to the unoriginality that's being pushed on Diablo 3.
I will be bringing up some old points and some new ones. But again I would really like you to follow through with me and take a Look and see where I am coming from because really I am worried about D3 and future blizzard products. I have no doubt D3 will be fun but it isn't the diablo 3 I envisioned when I was imagining what it would be like when I was playing diablo 2. I know everyone out there that played D2 envisioned what a diablo 3 would be like in their own minds in the future. I have to say that I didn't envision D3 to be anything like what they were and still are creating.
I will list my reasons for the personal conclusion that I've come to and please keep an open mind. This comes down to originality and making diablo 3 as good as it can be and what it should and could have been like with the right minds doing the right job.
1. My link This is a link to the dark cultist. Copy and paste undead WoW. They could have been a bit more original on this. Yes doing things like this saves time but... it just cuts the originality of Diablo and its sequel #3 like a hot knife through butter. This point is insignificant, but what it really comes down to is if they are going to do something as obvious as this WHO KNOWS how many more of these there could be in the game that were just copy and pasted? That is really a scary thought.
2. Diablo 3 items when they first released information about them were originally going to be in a unique- then -epic order with epic items being purple colored and the best you could get until the community outraged and it was changed (at least I think it was changed?). Even if it wasn't changed the point stands on an originality basis.
3. The original Character screen U.I that can be seen in the original gameplay trailer found on the D3 website. Basically copy and pasted from world of warcraft. Again, it isn't WoW being the problem, its the unoriginal eye being scoured into D3 like some hot twisted piece of metal. Yes it was changed for the better, but what kind of product would we have got if we never said anything about their work??
4. The stylized art style. I know its a hot topic and we all know it isn't going to change because it would basically be resetting everything they have done. That isn't the point though and I'm not asking them to change it I'm just dropping it into the melting pot of my overall concerns.
When I first envisioned diablo 3 I envisioned something like this.
My link
I really have to admit that I did not envision anything like this..
My link
5. Health orbs. Yes they feel very arcade like and everyone knows they could do a better job on it rather than putting floating red globes everywhere for health. We all know there can't be any more potion spamming because that just doesn't work but floating red balls that pop out of enemies? Come on, we all know they can do better than this so what the hell is going on? Imho I really do think they lost their touch on this project.
6. 60 level limit now. I think this speaks for itself. Nothing really wrong with it but it isn't original for diablo 3, it isn't a good idea in my opinion and it kind of ruins skill tree's based on the fact that you wont have the amount of points to play around with that you did in D2. Once you finish hell you should be level 60. I'm just wondering if there's going to be mounts at 40 now based on this unoriginality thumb print that I can't seem to wash out of my eyes for diablo 3. Just because something works in another game doesn't mean its the best solution and the best idea.
7. The glowing aspects of the game that just look ugly and dumbs the game down. Take the original gameplay trailer as example. The skeletons have glowing shields, the entire area under the dungeon is glowing. There's virtually no realistic firelight radius at all. The glowing weapons on the barbarian that deal extra lightning/ice damage is way to excessive. It's just all too pretty for diablo 3. Just refer to this picture again.
My link This is what it's all about. Not ridiculous amounts of glowing objects/areas however that seems to be the theme on what diablo 3 is based around.
8. Only 4 characters per game based on how intense the visuals are. Here's an idea... tone the visuals down? The combat doesn't have to be a giant glowing rainbow bomb unless they want it to be.
9. None-changing area's. Only dungeons are randomly changed. The outside world is static. I find this completely boring if the level cap will be 60 and if we will finish hell by level 60 I see a very boring game that will be a lot less repetitive than D2.
10. The original U.I bag system. Basically copy pasted from WoW. I'll say it one more time since this is a long post and you tend to forget things said earlier, this isn't about WoW its just about the unoriginal take on the entire project. They wanted to add little tiny pixel icons for our gear images. A HUGE part of diablo is seeing your gear and having it look awesome in your inventory. That is why the tetris inventory was so unique and cool. If we never said anything about it, we would have had the same u.i as WoW's aside from the hotkey bar and the orbs on the sides. Again, not about WoW, just about the unoriginal take on diablo 3's entire project and the entire idea it seems was to make it less like diablo with everything. Yes it was changed for the better because people voiced their concerns. If no one did that... well I'll leave it up to you to decide what the end result would have been.
11. Frozen stat allocation. Another hot topic. I am 50-50 on this for obvious reasons such as equality among players however the loss of it making it less like diablo and the loss of customization was rather disappointing.
At the moment I can't think of any other reasons to prove my point that I am very concerned with diablo 3 and concerned for diablo 3's unoriginality and the ideas and gameplay that made blizzard what it did at the time of D2//warcraft 3. When I look at diablo 3 what pops into my mind on what they have done so far is "what was the easiest solution", "What can we copy and paste that will work?", "lets do what will save the most time and resources". Even if those statements are not true in reality over at blizzard that is what pops into my head when I take quick glances at Diablo 3 and then when I look at everything all together... oh man.
Imho those are the first things that pop into my head when I take a real good look at Diablo 3 so far. I'm just worried about diablo 3 and future blizzard products in general if they are going to keep doing this crap again and again then that REALLY worries me.
I mean just think about what we would end up with if we didn't voice ANY concerns about the game at all. Really think about that and re-read my points as much as you want. Just remember, what would we get if we didn't say anything about their progress?
Anyway, I hope you thought this was interesting and at least insightful on some level or another. Fun may it still be, the point is what it could have been. In the end my main goal with this was to at least open some peoples eye's just a little bit so we don't end up accepting everything we get without question. If we do that we will all end up like console gamers in the very near future. My hats off to all the people who DID voice concerns on points #2, #3 and #10 so that they were changed for the better. Just think what we would have had if they never took our advice or heeded out concerns? Imho if anything I hope if any blizzard eyes actually end up reading this that this gives them some more motivation to make it the best diablo 3 that they can.
sadly we wont be getting any mods. They have confirmed no mods for d3.
I have to disagree with you on #6. If we reach level 60 by finishing hell and we do not have a world that is randomly generated I see a game that won't be as repetitive as D2. D2 people forget had random generated areas everywhere. People forget that a lot.
I have not thought much on the health globes as I was just kinda going with the flow on this one.
I'm not too worried about the lvl 60 cap for a couple reasons.... First we were never told how much exp we need for each lvl. For all we know it could take a month to get from 59 to 60. Second I'm pretty sure we were told by Jay that they are working on a really fun end game to give it shelf life. An end game that isn't just grinding to the top level. I'm sorry but that sounds original to me being this isn't an MMO like WOW. ( for all you single player fans ) I'm afraid we might have to stop wishing for a game that's exactly like D2. If it were going to be the same exact game I don't see much point in making a D3 in the first place. Why don't we all just play d2 so we never have to worry about change.(sarcasm) Blizzard hasn't make a bad game yet and until one is installed on my Pc I have faith in the guys and gals over there.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Are you suggesting that games should deliberately not be made to the potential which is capable by the development team just because some people cant afford a gaming pc? I have to agree with sanchet, when I fork out money for a new release game I expect to see the latest developments in gaming technology ( both audio and visual ). The same way as if I were to go and watch a new action movie at the cinemas I would expect to see cutting edge special effects, not special effects from 10 years ago.
I want the visuals and audio of Diablo3 to blow me away, even if it makes my current gaming rig blow smoke.
Point 1: I highly doubt anything in D3 is copypasted from WoW. Yes, models might be very similar, but that's not the same thing really.. I've seen undeads in robes in WoW - yea. But I've also seen walking skeletons in D2 before seeing them in WoW.. I don't think everything has to be "original" to be good. A cultist in a robe is a cultist in a robe, a zombie is a zombie.
Point 2: That is such a minor thing I wouldn't be worried about.. Sure they made a mistake thinking that we would want it to be unified with wow, and that might ring some alarms that they are thinking too much about WoW, but they also show that they listen to the feedback from older Diablo-players. Which is a good thing :).
Point 3: Firstly, that trailer is quite old, who knows what they have changed from there. Secondly.. it is not copy pasted. The only real "influence" from WoW is that they decided to go with an actionbar. Thirdly, you said it's better now. So what's the problem? It's stupid to do something original just for the sake of being original. Original /= good
Point 4: On this part I'll agree with you considering the pictures we've seen. I think they'll work it out a little bit better in the end, and I'm not all that concerned about it, but I do agree they could make it a bit grittier.
Point 5-9: I'll have to save those for later since I gotta go back to work :P.
//Liq
The outside world is semi-static. Basic roads and key locations are permanent, with sections that alter aesthetically and with mobs and randomized quests. We've known that for over a year, though.
I'm not worried about the game itself. Starcraft 2 was awesome, and I think D3 will be too. Diablo 3 isn't catered to niche people, it is what it is and it's been under the microscope for over two years now. It's not copy-pasta, you can draw those sort of comparisons with a lot of things. I'd rather have polish with a not so original UI idea than a broken new UI. It's going to look pretty on a high end machine, but able to run on something a few years old, as all Blizzard games do. That has been their philosophy for as long as they've been making games, I dunno why it's suddenly an issue. :\ The graphics for me are beautiful, one person said it was the "World of Diablo rendered to look like a painting." I agree.
I also believe the max player count hasn't been finalized yet, no? The level cap is also a ridiculous argument. If it takes you the same amount to get from 60 to 99, and is balanced around the game itself, what is the problem? Complaining for the sake of complaining? I'm legitimately curious.
EDIT: It makes me giggle when you say they were just copy-pasting to save time. If they were trying to save time, then why am I not able to play D3 before the apocalypse?
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I am not seeing how the cultist from D3 is a copy/paste of the undead from WoW. The undead from WoW were treated more as anrachist type characters with their mohawk hair-dos and bondage straps across their faces. Their bones often showed and their faces rarely complete. The cultist is a semi-living creature with his mouth sewn shut. His flesh is still intact and their eyes glow green. If you want to narrow it down precisely to and undead mage/priest wearing a robe, then the comparison is easy because it is two people standing in full robes. Is it their clothing choice you have a problem with. I really like the specific look of the robes of the cultist with the pointy hat and cool arm thingy. Either way, yes, no both you have a human type character but someone who shows signs of death. However, each one is stylized for their intended purposes.
Ok, when item colors are chosen, their are a limit of colors to choose from. Basically your regular colors red-purple, white, grey. Black and red however will not be used because black would not show up and there is too much red normally on the screen. White is for normal, blue for magic, green for set, yellow for rare. This leaves orange and purple. Gold was originally used and it was too similar to yellow. Orange would probably be the same. Therefore, the only choice left is purple. It really remains to be the only color that is different enough but has not been used. Do you have a different suggestion? Each item color has to be distinguishable and there are just no other colors to use. Do you just want them change the colors around. Most of them were already iconic of D2.
How is the diablo ui anything like the wow ui. Other than both use a hotkeys, Diablo 1-5 and wow uses 1-+ plus a possible three more rows. as far as health and energy, diablo's bookend the hotbar and wows is at top. I am just not seeing the similarity. Please point out some specifics to me. Oh, other than the map being in the top right corner which 95% of all games do.
With the art style. First off, everyone is only comparing it to the one area from the first gameplay vid.I have yet to hear any complaints from the Act 2. The area is stylized in a particular way to express a particular environment. Nobody has seen the vast amounts of areas and dungeons that they have created. With that said, there is a lot that goes into art style in a videogame then most people know. Making an awesome area for a screenshot is easy. Having that same area be playable both hardware wise and gameplay wise is completely different. With hardward, Blizzard tries to lower their graphic needs so more people can play their games. If you have a problem with this, then bring it up with the hundreds of thousands of diablo fans who cannot afford a new computer but still want to play the game. Secondly, in the screen shot you presented, it looks nice for a screen shot but actually playing in an area where everything is the same color does not work too well. But what it mostly comes down to is hardware restrictions. you might want to look at some of the blood-soaked desert screen shots from the last demo and see if that seems more like what you pictured.
I like this one with the "realistic" cliffs and the monsters in the foreground coming at you.
The debate about the look of the health orbs have gone on for awhile now. While I think that they could do more, again, keep in mind that there are hardware limitations that they are trying to work with. Some awesome graphic of the persons soul leaving their body and misting their way towards you and then you absorbing it with every enemy would be way too taxing on the system. Also again, remember, what works in a screen shot does not work for gameplay and vice versa. While in a single still shot they look out of place, remember that they have to create something that will stick out amongst dozens of enemies that are big and bright enough for you to recognize at a moments glance. If you have a better way of creating a drop that is clearly always visible yet doesnt require too much graphics, please let me know.
I think Bashiok did a pretty good job of explaining how it is not wow in his post. Wow is not the only game to use sixty. As for lowering the level. I personally like it because it seems more rewarding hitting that level. Getting a level every ten minutes does not feel rewarding. I think leveling through 30 on normal, 20 on nightmare, and 10 on hell is very similar to D2. maybe shy about ten levels but who knows how this game plays out. There is also a lot they have planned for end-game content so you wont be grinding baal for no reason other than to hit 99. AS for reasoning the idea with skills, nobody has any idea how the new skill system works. Lowering the level may have no affect on the system at all. It might not even be a point per level system.
Again, you are not taking into account pciture vs gameplay. With all of the glowing, this is to help signify and help particular components stand out at a quick glance. Also again, you are not taking into account the toll perfect/realistic lighting requires from your computer. If lowering the lighting quality means a couple thousand more people can play, I'm ok with that. As far as the barbs weapons, those were said to be the high end of each of those elements looks. The first will be something like a slight shading, the next mayeb a glow, and finally the full blown graphics we saw. Again, this is also to help them standout against everything else.
The four player limit is not only due to graphical strain. It has a lot to do with gameplay. Blizzard tests their games daily and I am sure they decided what was best based upon actual playing experience. There is also the point that many people did not play with more than four in a room, at least not all within close proximity. this is just proof that this number will work. Of course, some people will be upset because they wanted to play with their seven friends but the same argument could be used for a 20 player cap.
This is not correct. Borders and major cities are static, but a lot of the map is randomized. In fact, they have a whole new system that will randomly put in events and quests so that everytime you play the game, it will be different. Oddly, the reason for the static map is the very argument you have been making. With a static map, graphics can improve because they dont have to worry about creating all sorts of pieces that will fit together. They can create better looks based upon this which is exactly what you want. Again, this comes to gameplay and hardware demand. To lower the hardware demand but keep graphics looking good, they decided to make it static. If they didnt and the graphics were worse, many people would complain about this.
Overall, I think you and all of us know way to little to pass such judgment on the game. However, it is also important to remember that they are making a game and not pictures. What works well in a fast paced action packed scene does not always look best in a still.
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I hadnt seen that first picture before...
I just came my pants
and then cried because that's not how diablo will look...
That first picture has so much awesome in it I cant even put it into words
Its PERFECT
ditto
Diablo thanks God for creating obesity and ugliness.
Turn off your monitor. That should do the trick.
Also, quit your insolent manners kid.
Wow your sheer intelligent words crushed me. I'm stunned and can't find a fucking word to say.
Diablo thanks God for creating obesity and ugliness.
what's the point in having an environment if you cant see it?
what's the point in designing different kinds of monsters if you can't see them?
and you say the current way is retarded? :whistling:
On the health globe matter... They cant be as the Witch Doctor's skill. Cause they aren't a skill. They're a mechanic to eliminate mindless potion clicking and provide a more tactical gameplay.
Was that wall of text intentionally created to discourage people from actually reading and (inevitably) disagreeing with you?
Just asking :rolleyes:
Also, I never claimed to speak for everyone. I merely stated that on a dfans site, you are not going to get many people agreeing with you when you complain about diablo, a game none of us have even plays yet. However, some users do agree with me as posted.
Ironically, you agreed with some of my points. As fr the color and art, again everyone who is upset with the art is basing their opinion on the entire game from one area that has been shown. As for making the dungeon so dark you can't see what you are clicking, this is a horrible idea for a game where you need to click on hundreds of monsters. If you personally want it that dark, just adjust the brightness. As for the rainbow of colors, there is a lot more to art than just "I want it dark". Asking anyone who studied art and they will tell you it is not that simple. For the bright and glow things everywhere, again, this is so it is noticeable at a quick glance. When you have dozens of stuff on the screen at once, you need to be able to have a way to make each thing look significantly different.
Sorry if this once again sounds like I'm trying to be intellectual. If it helps, let me just say "you guys don't know what you are talking about. You have never made a videogame so you have know idea how to make a good one. I is a fan boy and diablo is perfect".
By the way, I don't agree with every choice they have made, I am just simply giving you reasoning behind the choices they have made.
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