Everyone needs to chill the fuck out. Blizzard has never failed us. Accept with WoW, they fucked the lore up. Diablo has gotten brighter from DI to DII and now it is more vivid in DIII. I would like to see the dungeon all around me, they will make some changes before the release, I mean they arn't even beta testing yet. So chill the fuck out and wait. When they announce the release and you dont like it then, then you can bitch. But until then. STOP.
Diablo has always been a gripping dungeon crawler will an amazing story line and great replay value, the graphics have never been outstanding. They were always good. Also DII was 2D, it is a lot easier to detail things in 2D. They will refine the game. But first and formost, diablo is a game of playability, and gameplay is there biggest focus.
i think the people always saying "mod close this thread" are retarded. if its a repost just let the thread die on its own otherwise youre deleting other peoples takes on things and therefore make it almost pointless to post at all on these forums half the time.
i hate that all their excuses are that they want to bring more stylish art if that were true they should have went into a different direction and not make it look like WoW, i would have given new art a chance if it wasent just lazy porting, they need to fire the art director thats what needs to happen.
I got a different impression. I frequently visit a lot of forums and can clearly see that there are a lot of people out there who are of opinion there's room for improvement.
Too bad that is in the wrong section, think before you post.
i searched in the art section and found nothing like this.
Just because it's in a different section doesn't mean you can spam the other boards with the same information. This doesn't belong in here anyways, it belongs in Diablo 3 Chat. I'm merging the two threads.
Just to get some facts straight, all the following is derived from the Art panels with the Devs of both SC2 and D3 art teams !!!
Blizz only made/finished two 3D games until now, and in them we clearly can see they have a distinctive unique 3D style ( that some might not like ), those two games are WoW and WC3 ( with all their expansions ), it is a coincidence they both happen to be from the same universe, which gives a false impression that they do that style for WC only, but no, that's their approach to ANY 3D game they will make ( WC related or not ) , and people are supposed to respect that.
Blizzard never and will never make realistic looking games with over used reflection, bumpmaps and brownish/grayish tones because they look completely dull, unartistic and boring, that's simply not their style at all, their style in ANY 3D game will be stylized, based on use of color, use of hand painted detailed textures, and this style will be used in EVERY 3D game the will make, simple as that ( clearly said by the devs during their art panels in WWI )
So don't expect Blizz to be making any realistic games any time in the future, it is a whole company artistic vision and approach to have stylized games, ANY 3D game they make will have that ( That was said during SC2 art panel too )
So the only thing they will do is try to strike a balance between their stylized art style and realism, and that what D3 does perfectly ( and that will be even more clear when the game development progresses, if only people would wait )
People can disagree whether D3 does that perfectly. As of now, I don't think it does.
But more important is that I never got the memo. When I watched that video stream from the WWI, I never understood since when Blizzard adopted this core principle of their "stylized" look. I never got the damn memo!
Since 2000, we can agree that those years were the years of Warcraft. But before then, we saw that Blizzard has CLEARLY capable to having very different art styles. Diablo I/II, Starcraft, and Warcraft II all looked extremely different - do you agree?
But all of a sudden, now, in 2008, they reveal this new design "principle" I never knew before. A casual fan would assume, since all the games they've really produced since DII expansion have been Warcraft, that that look only pertained to the Warcraft series. Now all of a sudden they are telling fans who crave that Gothic Diablo look that it's no longer possible because of a new principle that no one had ever heard before?
Call me a cynic, but I think at least part of it is that they feel it would be more economical to use the updated Warcraft engine than develop something totally new and innovative. After working on the art for WoW for so long, I imagine that it would difficult to separate yourself from that art style. Very difficult. And you tend to go with the easiest path sometimes when you've been doing something for so long, even when it doesn't really fit.
What I hope is that the petition, as small and probably minority as it is, opens their eyes to the fact that:
1) Not everyone enjoys the stylized WoW look
2) They may have fallen into the "rut" of doing the familiar
3) It is a good thing to keep the art styles of separate IPs different, because, after all, they've done it before.
“A great analogy is like in ‘Lord of the Rings’ — not everything is dark.”
Yeah... maybe the devs don't remember but in Diablo 2, every inch of Sanctuary was scared by the Prime Evils' presence. Everything was dark. You stepped out into the wilderness in act 1 and were wading through a perpetual shadow. Act 2 there's a quest where everything is benighted and dark. Act 3 you're in a jungle. A colorful jungle but a dark, I just stepped into hell, kind of jungle. Act 4 you're in hell, and Act 5 you're in a warzone. Not a particularly dark act but not exactly lucky charms colorful either.
Blizzard is gonna do what it wants. Blizzard north people have broken off and tried for Hellgate which flopped, now we have people who aren't as devout to the original vision and are falling short.
Thing is though, I liked how the game was. Gothic scenery is what made the game for me.There are parts of the demo which are dark, and then there are parts which are too much. Regardless, despite how much I don't like this art direction, as long as the blood is red, it'll work out for the better.
The developers justification for using clean textures is so that the player can focus better. Even in theory this sounds stupid and wrong for diablo. Somewhere else they say the exaggerated proportions of objects in the environment are supposed to convey epic ness but again, it just doesn’t look right for diablo. Their entire stylized art direction for diablo simply fails in its current ingame form, but it obviously works in the warcraft universe so keep it over there! They use the lord of the rings as an analogy to justify their direction with the colors and darkness/brightness levels, but the problems run deeper than that, so ppl stop using the “just adjust our monitor settings” argument! I guess everyone thinks we want the WHOLE game to look drab and dull, this isn’t the case! Do we expect ALL outdoor environments to be dark nighttime overcast rainy? No, this isnt what were suggesting. We can understand using colors to highlight elements, and using subtle dark hues instead of removing the light altogether to give contrast. It looks fine for many games, this just isnt the way of things in diablo land!
Diablos look had a lot going for it so why change it so much? A little change-yes, but advancements should remain within the realm of the previous games. Im not saying make d3 look EXACTLY like d2. A facelift needs to be made of course, but instead of moving forward, they veered off in the wrong direction. So having said this, is it likely they will/can change EVERYTHING to our liking? Of course not, but if they could at least head back towards the original path the diablo universe is based on, we would be happy.
I think a more accurate analogy of diablo3 in its current form is that its going to be like the star wars prequels. Meaning, of course it will be a huge box office hit, but hardcore fans will be dissapointed! So its up to blizzard to either bring the game back toward its roots; or make like George Lukas and tarnish the franchise by deviating too much from the original formula that was responsible for its success in the first place.
People can disagree whether D3 does that perfectly. As of now, I don't think it does.
But more important is that I never got the memo. When I watched that video stream from the WWI, I never understood since when Blizzard adopted this core principle of their "stylized" look. I never got the damn memo!
Since 2000, we can agree that those years were the years of Warcraft. But before then, we saw that Blizzard has CLEARLY capable to having very different art styles. Diablo I/II, Starcraft, and Warcraft II all looked extremely different - do you agree?
But all of a sudden, now, in 2008, they reveal this new design "principle" I never knew before. A casual fan would assume, since all the games they've really produced since DII expansion have been Warcraft, that that look only pertained to the Warcraft series. Now all of a sudden they are telling fans who crave that Gothic Diablo look that it's no longer possible because of a new principle that no one had ever heard before?
Call me a cynic, but I think at least part of it is that they feel it would be more economical to use the updated Warcraft engine than develop something totally new and innovative. After working on the art for WoW for so long, I imagine that it would difficult to separate yourself from that art style. Very difficult. And you tend to go with the easiest path sometimes when you've been doing something for so long, even when it doesn't really fit.
What I hope is that the petition, as small and probably minority as it is, opens their eyes to the fact that:
1) Not everyone enjoys the stylized WoW look
2) They may have fallen into the "rut" of doing the familiar
3) It is a good thing to keep the art styles of separate IPs different, because, after all, they've done it before.
People need to stop saying its a vocal minority, its a majority from the official poll no matter how you look at it. About 60% wanted things changed and 40% didn't. Then when taking into consideration that ALL of that 60% are dissatisfied and the 40% is made up of people voting that way for a variety of reasons such as wanting the game sooner, not caring how it looks, or blindly supporting blizzard cause they are gods etc you start to see its a serious majority that aren't happy. Then when you consider that there would probably have been no complaints at all around here if they had kept the old style and no threads exclaiming "make it look like WoW" you end up that there is a tiny percent that is actually genuinely really happy about how it looks. Such a small percent that had the game been shown with more diablo like graphics they would have been rediculed and laughed at if they made threads saying "make it look more like WoW, it looks dull".
Vocal minority is different from silence majority. Do you honestly believe that 50k people are the majority of a several millions sold game?
You cant claim that "all the people that aren't here are on my side" a lot of the people I have spoken to have expressed disappointment in the artistic style, they are neither on the site or signing the petition. Generally speaking there is going to be a fairly accurate representation of the wider community displayed here. yes there are several million other fans out there, but more than likely about 60% of them aren't going to be happy, pitty they aren't around signing petitions
Blizzards art direction is fine. Its not the best and its not the worst i have seen. I'd say its in the middle. But i do like certain aspects of the new art.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If your insane, but still sane enough to know it, are you insane or sane?
I don't really mind the art also but that blueish/greenish hue has to go, really. It's better with a darker hue and the light radius was another thing I liked also. In the game play demo there is some light radius but it needs a little more darkness instead of that blueish hue.
You'd expect going outside that sunlight thats shines into a waterfall will cast a rainbow, thats fine too. All in all I did sign the petition to change the art direction. Although I do not want Blizzard extending the time that D3 comes out just to change the whole art direction, that is not really needed. I would still buy diablo even if it looked like that. It looks fine too me. A little fix here and there won't hurt as long as it doesn't make the game take longer to come out =P
Hey guys, I have been reading and reading, and spent hours and actually read through the entire ~79 page thread that got closed, and then some.
In the morning of the announcement i went to Blizzard's site to see if they'd updated the splash screen yet again, and my hopes were fulfilled. I dont remember being so childishly excited about something for a long time.
As I delved into the site and feasted on all the content, I felt a the growing guilt of disappointment and a sense of lost hope after relalizing what is being done with the sequel after all these years. Team fortress 2 came to mind. I was so happy they actually announced it finally, but this is nothing when I realized it is not what I envisioned.
I sought out forums in order to see if any one else was surprised/angered/disappointed, and look at this i'm not alone it looks like.
Here is my take on this, and I am struggling to contain my outrage here and stay respectable and constructive. I know the old thread is closed but i didnt want to post anything until i had read the entire thing, and by then it was too late so i'm putting it all here. I have to get this out of my system, I can't keep it in anymore.
Personal suggestions in random order:
-Keep the inventory (squares), where items are real-size, and not icons, where a 2-handed axe takes up more space than, say, a sash.
-The characters run too slowly, with large leisurly strides (like low-gravity moon-walking) as opposed to the urgency, etc. instilled by a characters' quicker, smaller steps. At least the barbarian should take smaller, faster steps. I am a competitive tennis player, and i know all about footwork and its implications. The barbarian's movement somehow reminds me of the "Heavy weapons" guy from Valve's Team Fortress 2, totally unrealistic and a turnoff. I mean we will be staring at this guy running around for how many hours? days? Different classes should have different strides.
-Please have a look at the edited screenshots put forth by the petition (which I heartily signed after reading through their reasonings). These shots not only dampen the children's adventure-like aura but they also add gore, blood spatters, etc. into places which lack
-Where have all the blood stains gone? The corruption of living flesh, and the feeling of having to face overwhelming odds, the minions of hell corrupting the land where even the air turns bleak with sorrow.
-I can not pinpoint everything but the general vibe of it, trying to mesh Diablo with bright greens and purple/blue/green lighting, and cartoon-styling left me hopeless.
-Why show the animation of the guy in the inventory screen? Put the detailed look of body armor instead of the mmo icon-squares.
-Please ditch the colorful, gummy skill icons.. those are totally out of place with Diablo, but if you're making a cartoon game then theyll fit right in.
-I hope to GOD they have not abandoned the skill points system (i'm talking about Dexterity, Strength, etc.)
-Will we get Orc Shamans as one of the classes? oh wait.. we got a troll witch doctor, that would be asking for too much.
What scares me is the possibility that Blizzard is doing this with the purpose of attracting as many people as possible. I don't see any other reason for not putting gore and blood/etc, dreary feel as the theme of the game. If this is the reason, then Diablo has died in me, and will not bother putting myself through the frustration of playing a fairy tale sequel.
Graphical design capabilities have increased leaps and bounds over the years, and this means Blizzard has a lot of choices as to how to portray the world of Diablo compared to back in the days. With great power, comes great responsibility. And I fear that this power has been misguided, and hope to tears that they do something about this before it is too late.
I have spent embarrassing amounts of my life on Diablos 1 and 2, Starcraft, and then World of Warcraft.
Up until few days ago I have been an active WOW subscriber and needless to say now.. i am done with it. For good.
You know, I hear that EA Sports is putting out a new game, "Wayne Gretzky Hockey 2010". They've kept the whole game, but added a few "tweaks" since they are masters of their already successful franchise John Madden NFL.
- Instead of an ice rink, everyone runs around on grass. Ice is a lot more costly to maintain, especially in the off seasons, and therefore changing it to astroturf allows mroe people all over the world to play hockey.
- The periods will be changed to 4 quarters, as 3 just isn't natural.
- Penalties have been removed, as we cannot encourage that sort of "uneven" play. All teams will be of even strength at all times.
- Shots taken from the blue line will be worth more points, to encourage a more variable game. More risk should be worth more points. As well, a "penalty shot", now renamed to "bonus shot", will be awarded to those who make it.
- The Detroit Red Wings have been removes as a team, but instead we will feature the new Detroit Lions, now playing hockey. They'll dress in a jersey similar to the familiar winged wheel, but it won't be the same.
- Fights have been taken out of the game, as people shouldn't be fighting. They are there to play a good game of Hockey-ball.
- As stated before, the ice has been removed from rinks in favor of astroturf as ice "feels" cold, and having the grass gives feelings of warmth to those watching it. Everyone loves warm feelings.
- Also, having an ice rink makes the game to similar to other ice-events, like Ringette, Curling and Figure-skating. Having grass will make this winter sport feel unique.
Remember everybody "Grass is your friend"
If the above analogy were true, how many people would buy EA's new "hockey" game?
Hey guys, I have been reading and reading, and spent hours and actually read through the entire ~79 page thread that got closed, and then some.
[...]
You are definitely not alone. I am completely on your side and so are many many others. Just keep active and posting and signing petitions and ignore naysayers and those who are blinded by their desire to just play D3 that they cannot see the gaping and obvious faults.
Those that say we want Diablo 2.5 have a pointless argument. We want something new, but we want it to BUILD on the WONDERFUL things that made DIABLO II what it is, and not completely change what worked SO WELL. These kind of people are hypocrites because they too want many elements from Diablo II. Just tell them to do without X that they really love about Diablo II and they will get furious. Then repeat their mindless remark "What, do you want Diablo 2.5?"
I believe that we can change Diablo 3, let's just keep at the fight.
First things first, Art and game design should never turn into some sort of pseudo democracy, this is not presidential elections, the only one who has the right to decide what Diablo 3 looks like is Blizzard, not mindless nostalgia fueled petitions or crazed hard-core fans.
That's the main reason companies other than Blizzard ignore all this nonsense and make their games in secret to avoid such nonsense, and soon Blizzard too will do the same because of the attitude of mindless immature fans.
I have said countless time that Blizzard justified their changes in the game looks during their Art Panels in WWI, and it makes more sense than the mindless nostalgia fest going on here, anyone with even the slightest artistic sense could see how much hard work has been done on Diablo 3, so it is immature, implotie and rude to just ask them to change it all just because your nostlagia is hurting, if you don't like Diablo 3 as it is just don't buy it or play it, go play the countless gritty clones out there, or make your own company.
Reasons for the changes:-
*it has been already 20 years since Diablo 2, more than enough to change the whole look of the world.
* Stylish, giving Diablo 3 its own character and personality, allowing it to stand out from the crowd of brown and grey games, or 'realistic' (e.g. boring) looking games.
* Not monotonous. The use of inviting colours, contours, tones, vibrance, and animations are some of the game's major strengths. Makes the game accessible and playable for a long period of time.
* The use of colors allow for a wide variety of settings and locations, away from the mundane worlds of greys and browns.
* Vibrant colors and a wide variety of locations do not prohibit the game from having 'dark gothic' locations within the game. Diablo 2 consisted mainly of vibrant locations, but that didn't prevent the Durance of Hate from being a part of the game.
So to set things right i'll try to explain those changes and refute all the baseless nostalgia fueled claims that make no sense.
1-claim one They say Diablo 3 is cartoony and colorful Validtiy:nonsense, if Diablo 3 is cartoony then real life is loony toons, Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were more much more colorful and cartoony than Diablo 3, which is 40 times more realistic than both of them.
Proofs:
-NATURE is VIVID and COLORFUL and that DOESN'T MAKE IT CARTOONY
IF THIS IS CARTOONY
THEN THIS IS A PIC FROM LOONY TOONS
-RAINBOWS are a freaking NATURAL phenomena, it has nothing to do with your freaking PONIES
Let's play find the ponie, what ?, there ain't any, OMG !!!!!
-Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 were very colorful and very cartoony ( STATED BY DIABLO DEV TEAM )
DIABLO 2 DISCO TIME
Still wonder which one is cartoony colorful and bright and which one is realistic, then maybe you should you go check your eyes at the nearest doctor.
Also D2 had normal daytime and VERY BRIGHT environments
IT WAS NOT ALL GLOOOMY AND DARK, you don't know what you are talking about and make yourselves look like 15 years old emo-Gothic girls how want every thing black and blotted with blood and gore, GET A LIFE.
2-claim two They say Diablo 3 looks like WoW Validtiy:Not true, Diablo 3 has a slightly stylish look that looks nothing like WoW, Team Fortress has a stylish look, does that mean it looks like WoW or Diablo 3, NO, and also in general not every fantasy stylized 3d game is WoW.
Proofs: This is the very stylish and low poly look of WoW, you can see it's textures and details are greatly lacking and that the colors are not coherent, both hands and feet are large and anatomy in general is exaggerated
THIS is DIABLO 3, the COLORS are COHERENT, the DETAILS are CRISP, the TEXTURES are RICH, the MOOD is CLEARLY SET, the CHARACTER SKIN is very detailed and the anatomy is only slightly stylized and looks closer to real life than anything before ( even in D1 and D2 )
NOT EVERY 3D stylized game is WOW, get real.
AND STYLISH = NOT BORING
( they stated that countless times but you call yourselves Blizz fans and keep ignoring that )
No Blizz true fan would Want D3 to look like every freaking generic 3d hack and slash clone out there, they are all NOT stylized and look like each other.
Can you even tell the difference between the first screen shot and the other two, for your surprise they are both two different games, yet they freaking look the same, do you know why ?
BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH FREAKING DARK AND BORING WITH NO MOOD OR AMBIENT COLORS, NO SANE DIABLO FAN WOULD WANT DIABLO 3 to look this GENERIC, BLAND AND SHITTY.
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3-claim three They say Diablo 3 Armor is spiky and large Validtiy:That's hilarious, did you even check how the armor wore by the Barbarian in D2 looked like, seriously !!!!!
Proofs:
The spiky armor above was in the game, and this Barbarian 3D model here was the one used for the 2D sprite in the Diablo 2 game as stated by the artist himself, so, that bland looking armor or this new more detailed and realistic one.
The Barbarian heavy armor designs always featured spikes and huge shoulder pieces, and simple as that, it looks a lot better now.
Warhammer universe also has very bulky armor and there is nothing cartoony about it, it is a gritty universe.
That's all for now
And remember i'm not the one how created the current look for Daiblo 3, it is BLIZZARD, the same company that made DIABLO 1 and DIABLO 2 that you keep whining about, THEY KNOW BETTER THAN YOU.
THEY HAD VERY GOOD REASONS FOR THEIR CHANGES, and ALL you WHINE about IS NOSTALGIA, DARKNESS AND BLOOD, quite an argument, an perfectly EMO one.
I finally sat down and read the whole thread and this is one of the more constructive posts made with a lot of good points that adress a lot of concearns with logic and fact.
So, are you honestly expecting that Blizz will come out tomorrow showing that they changed everything just because you want? You clearly have no idea how things work then, they will show in THEIR due time, not before that.
I never specified a time. Do not try and patronize me for things I do not say. I want change, I do not care if it happens tomorrow or a year from now. We must all fight for what we think is the correct path. Blizzard is one of the few companies that will actually listen if enough people voice out their opinions.
Exactly, but that is why the "keep the fight to the people" stance by many is completely nonsense.
I think it is you who is ignorant. Blizzard listens to the fans because it is their single greatest strength and one of the many reasons that they are so successful.
I finally sat down and read the whole thread and this is one of the more constructive posts made with a lot of good points that adress a lot of concearns with logic and fact.
There was very little fact and the only logic found is that of someone who hasn't played Diablo 1 or 2 and bases his logic around incorrect facts such as "Blizzard made Diablo 1". He draws parallels between Diablo and the Warhammer universe which is about as correct as drawing a parallel between the smurfs and the A-Team.
Even further, he brings in a 'real life' picture which is about as real as taking the picture and adjusting the brightness, contrast, and color values in photoshop. It's all bunk and has no merit.
The biggest issue in the post is the fact that he brings up "DISCO D2". It shows a fatal misunderstanding of the game and the colors chosen and I feel the Blizzard art guys are making the same mistake.
Power in Diablo 1 and 2 is signified by the colors. There is a reason why those super-baddies were bright colors - because they were powerful. They stuck out because of this.
The power of the spell can be visually seen by how bright it is. Things like meteor, ice orb, bone spear, etc. All of these look bright and colorful, first and foremost, so we can see it against the dark of the game. This is why we can still see ice spells in Act 5 but are unable to see ice spells in Act 3 of Titan Quest. It has everything to do with the spells.
Even further, the effects of the game (curses, poisons, ice, etc) are easily seen due to the color of the effects. We all know when an enemy is poisoned because they are bright green. We all know when an enemy is frozen because they are bright blue. It's a contrast against the darkened, gritty landscape that catches the attention of the eye.
If you examine every one of the D2 shots in his post, you see tons of color. Examine more closely. Where do you see all this color?
In the player and monsters, not in the location.
This is a point many people who haven't played Diablo tend to make. They associate the color found in the world of D3 with the color found from the players and monsters in D1 and D2. Those of us who are complaining about the bright nature of Diablo 3 do not understand why:
1. The Tristram Cathedral (seen in Diablo 1) is so bright and not dark (especially since Deckard Cain mentions that it is 'so dark' that you can 'disorient yourself'.
2. Why the outside is so colorful (as is shown in all of Diablo 2... jungles tend to be very lush in real life yet Act 3 was not).
3. Why the world doesn't match the majority of the concept art. The only concept art it matches is a gem mine which looks straight out of a childrens book.
All we, the players, are asking is for them to be more true to the franchise. The developers even said that they wanted to respect the franchise. We don't see this mainly because we don't see the similarities between the Diablo 1 Tristram Cathedral and the Diablo 3 Tristram Cathedral. 20 years does not fill a cathedral with a blue-green glow nor does it change the fact that demons are in the cathedral now and the place looks incredibly neat and tidy with little to no dead bodies on the ground, no fires, no destroyed furniture or land scape (besides what is destroyed or triggered by the player)... nothing like this at all is going on.
Yeah, it's early. This is why everyone is making a huge stink about it. If it's caught early it can be fixed quickly and efficiently. A lot of people who are arguing against this stating that "OH MY IT WILL TAKE FOREVER" don't understand how to fix a problem and are, to be honest, a bit immature.
You don't fix a problem by waiting until whatever it is is complete and mask it by telling the fans (the loyal fan base... the fan base that has been playing the same game for 8 years and has been waiting nearly all 8 of those years just for the announcement and when the announcement comes we are all met with a mix of excitement and disappointment that it doesn't look anything like what we expected) to darken up your monitor. It doesn't work like that.
Cocobuffs, you should take up the download of the highres version of the game and see that it's much more gory than you thought.
That was actually the first thing i did, is download the full rez one for about a day Didn't even watch the low-rez ones, I wanted to see it full blown the first time around.
A large number people who do not want any changes seem to do so solely to have the game cranked out as soon as possible. Come on guys, look at how long D2 has been played, imagine how long D3 will last us. A few months difference will pale in comparison to the time that people will be playing this game when it comes out.
And another thing i forgot to specify on, the *customizable* skill points (dexterity, strength, vitality, etc). How much u wanna bet they took that out?
Diablo has always been a gripping dungeon crawler will an amazing story line and great replay value, the graphics have never been outstanding. They were always good. Also DII was 2D, it is a lot easier to detail things in 2D. They will refine the game. But first and formost, diablo is a game of playability, and gameplay is there biggest focus.
In Blizzard We Trust! So chill out and STFU.
Can you give me an example?
Just because it's in a different section doesn't mean you can spam the other boards with the same information. This doesn't belong in here anyways, it belongs in Diablo 3 Chat. I'm merging the two threads.
People can disagree whether D3 does that perfectly. As of now, I don't think it does.
But more important is that I never got the memo. When I watched that video stream from the WWI, I never understood since when Blizzard adopted this core principle of their "stylized" look. I never got the damn memo!
Since 2000, we can agree that those years were the years of Warcraft. But before then, we saw that Blizzard has CLEARLY capable to having very different art styles. Diablo I/II, Starcraft, and Warcraft II all looked extremely different - do you agree?
But all of a sudden, now, in 2008, they reveal this new design "principle" I never knew before. A casual fan would assume, since all the games they've really produced since DII expansion have been Warcraft, that that look only pertained to the Warcraft series. Now all of a sudden they are telling fans who crave that Gothic Diablo look that it's no longer possible because of a new principle that no one had ever heard before?
Call me a cynic, but I think at least part of it is that they feel it would be more economical to use the updated Warcraft engine than develop something totally new and innovative. After working on the art for WoW for so long, I imagine that it would difficult to separate yourself from that art style. Very difficult. And you tend to go with the easiest path sometimes when you've been doing something for so long, even when it doesn't really fit.
What I hope is that the petition, as small and probably minority as it is, opens their eyes to the fact that:
1) Not everyone enjoys the stylized WoW look
2) They may have fallen into the "rut" of doing the familiar
3) It is a good thing to keep the art styles of separate IPs different, because, after all, they've done it before.
Yeah... maybe the devs don't remember but in Diablo 2, every inch of Sanctuary was scared by the Prime Evils' presence. Everything was dark. You stepped out into the wilderness in act 1 and were wading through a perpetual shadow. Act 2 there's a quest where everything is benighted and dark. Act 3 you're in a jungle. A colorful jungle but a dark, I just stepped into hell, kind of jungle. Act 4 you're in hell, and Act 5 you're in a warzone. Not a particularly dark act but not exactly lucky charms colorful either.
Blizzard is gonna do what it wants. Blizzard north people have broken off and tried for Hellgate which flopped, now we have people who aren't as devout to the original vision and are falling short.
Thing is though, I liked how the game was. Gothic scenery is what made the game for me.There are parts of the demo which are dark, and then there are parts which are too much. Regardless, despite how much I don't like this art direction, as long as the blood is red, it'll work out for the better.
Somewhere else they say the exaggerated proportions of objects in the environment are supposed to convey epic ness but again, it just doesn’t look right for diablo.
Their entire stylized art direction for diablo simply fails in its current ingame form, but it obviously works in the warcraft universe so keep it over there!
They use the lord of the rings as an analogy to justify their direction with the colors and darkness/brightness levels, but the problems run deeper than that, so ppl stop using the “just adjust our monitor settings” argument!
I guess everyone thinks we want the WHOLE game to look drab and dull, this isn’t the case!
Do we expect ALL outdoor environments to be dark nighttime overcast rainy? No, this isnt what were suggesting.
We can understand using colors to highlight elements, and using subtle dark hues instead of removing the light altogether to give contrast. It looks fine for many games, this just isnt the way of things in diablo land!
Diablos look had a lot going for it so why change it so much? A little change-yes, but advancements should remain within the realm of the previous games.
Im not saying make d3 look EXACTLY like d2. A facelift needs to be made of course, but instead of moving forward, they veered off in the wrong direction. So having said this, is it likely they will/can change EVERYTHING to our liking? Of course not, but if they could at least head back towards the original path the diablo universe is based on, we would be happy.
I think a more accurate analogy of diablo3 in its current form is that its going to be like the star wars prequels.
Meaning, of course it will be a huge box office hit, but hardcore fans will be dissapointed!
So its up to blizzard to either bring the game back toward its roots; or make like George Lukas and tarnish the franchise by deviating too much from the original formula that was responsible for its success in the first place.
People need to stop saying its a vocal minority, its a majority from the official poll no matter how you look at it. About 60% wanted things changed and 40% didn't. Then when taking into consideration that ALL of that 60% are dissatisfied and the 40% is made up of people voting that way for a variety of reasons such as wanting the game sooner, not caring how it looks, or blindly supporting blizzard cause they are gods etc you start to see its a serious majority that aren't happy. Then when you consider that there would probably have been no complaints at all around here if they had kept the old style and no threads exclaiming "make it look like WoW" you end up that there is a tiny percent that is actually genuinely really happy about how it looks. Such a small percent that had the game been shown with more diablo like graphics they would have been rediculed and laughed at if they made threads saying "make it look more like WoW, it looks dull".
You cant claim that "all the people that aren't here are on my side" a lot of the people I have spoken to have expressed disappointment in the artistic style, they are neither on the site or signing the petition. Generally speaking there is going to be a fairly accurate representation of the wider community displayed here. yes there are several million other fans out there, but more than likely about 60% of them aren't going to be happy, pitty they aren't around signing petitions
Blizzards art direction is fine. Its not the best and its not the worst i have seen. I'd say its in the middle. But i do like certain aspects of the new art.
If your insane, but still sane enough to know it, are you insane or sane?
You'd expect going outside that sunlight thats shines into a waterfall will cast a rainbow, thats fine too. All in all I did sign the petition to change the art direction. Although I do not want Blizzard extending the time that D3 comes out just to change the whole art direction, that is not really needed. I would still buy diablo even if it looked like that. It looks fine too me. A little fix here and there won't hurt as long as it doesn't make the game take longer to come out =P
In the morning of the announcement i went to Blizzard's site to see if they'd updated the splash screen yet again, and my hopes were fulfilled. I dont remember being so childishly excited about something for a long time.
As I delved into the site and feasted on all the content, I felt a the growing guilt of disappointment and a sense of lost hope after relalizing what is being done with the sequel after all these years. Team fortress 2 came to mind. I was so happy they actually announced it finally, but this is nothing when I realized it is not what I envisioned.
I sought out forums in order to see if any one else was surprised/angered/disappointed, and look at this i'm not alone it looks like.
Here is my take on this, and I am struggling to contain my outrage here and stay respectable and constructive. I know the old thread is closed but i didnt want to post anything until i had read the entire thing, and by then it was too late so i'm putting it all here. I have to get this out of my system, I can't keep it in anymore.
Personal suggestions in random order:
-Keep the inventory (squares), where items are real-size, and not icons, where a 2-handed axe takes up more space than, say, a sash.
-The characters run too slowly, with large leisurly strides (like low-gravity moon-walking) as opposed to the urgency, etc. instilled by a characters' quicker, smaller steps. At least the barbarian should take smaller, faster steps. I am a competitive tennis player, and i know all about footwork and its implications. The barbarian's movement somehow reminds me of the "Heavy weapons" guy from Valve's Team Fortress 2, totally unrealistic and a turnoff. I mean we will be staring at this guy running around for how many hours? days? Different classes should have different strides.
-Please have a look at the edited screenshots put forth by the petition (which I heartily signed after reading through their reasonings). These shots not only dampen the children's adventure-like aura but they also add gore, blood spatters, etc. into places which lack
-Where have all the blood stains gone? The corruption of living flesh, and the feeling of having to face overwhelming odds, the minions of hell corrupting the land where even the air turns bleak with sorrow.
-I can not pinpoint everything but the general vibe of it, trying to mesh Diablo with bright greens and purple/blue/green lighting, and cartoon-styling left me hopeless.
-Why show the animation of the guy in the inventory screen? Put the detailed look of body armor instead of the mmo icon-squares.
-Please ditch the colorful, gummy skill icons.. those are totally out of place with Diablo, but if you're making a cartoon game then theyll fit right in.
-I hope to GOD they have not abandoned the skill points system (i'm talking about Dexterity, Strength, etc.)
-Will we get Orc Shamans as one of the classes? oh wait.. we got a troll witch doctor, that would be asking for too much.
What scares me is the possibility that Blizzard is doing this with the purpose of attracting as many people as possible. I don't see any other reason for not putting gore and blood/etc, dreary feel as the theme of the game. If this is the reason, then Diablo has died in me, and will not bother putting myself through the frustration of playing a fairy tale sequel.
Graphical design capabilities have increased leaps and bounds over the years, and this means Blizzard has a lot of choices as to how to portray the world of Diablo compared to back in the days. With great power, comes great responsibility. And I fear that this power has been misguided, and hope to tears that they do something about this before it is too late.
I have spent embarrassing amounts of my life on Diablos 1 and 2, Starcraft, and then World of Warcraft.
Up until few days ago I have been an active WOW subscriber and needless to say now.. i am done with it. For good.
- Instead of an ice rink, everyone runs around on grass. Ice is a lot more costly to maintain, especially in the off seasons, and therefore changing it to astroturf allows mroe people all over the world to play hockey.
- The periods will be changed to 4 quarters, as 3 just isn't natural.
- Penalties have been removed, as we cannot encourage that sort of "uneven" play. All teams will be of even strength at all times.
- Shots taken from the blue line will be worth more points, to encourage a more variable game. More risk should be worth more points. As well, a "penalty shot", now renamed to "bonus shot", will be awarded to those who make it.
- The Detroit Red Wings have been removes as a team, but instead we will feature the new Detroit Lions, now playing hockey. They'll dress in a jersey similar to the familiar winged wheel, but it won't be the same.
- Fights have been taken out of the game, as people shouldn't be fighting. They are there to play a good game of Hockey-ball.
- As stated before, the ice has been removed from rinks in favor of astroturf as ice "feels" cold, and having the grass gives feelings of warmth to those watching it. Everyone loves warm feelings.
- Also, having an ice rink makes the game to similar to other ice-events, like Ringette, Curling and Figure-skating. Having grass will make this winter sport feel unique.
Remember everybody "Grass is your friend"
If the above analogy were true, how many people would buy EA's new "hockey" game?
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
You are definitely not alone. I am completely on your side and so are many many others. Just keep active and posting and signing petitions and ignore naysayers and those who are blinded by their desire to just play D3 that they cannot see the gaping and obvious faults.
Those that say we want Diablo 2.5 have a pointless argument. We want something new, but we want it to BUILD on the WONDERFUL things that made DIABLO II what it is, and not completely change what worked SO WELL. These kind of people are hypocrites because they too want many elements from Diablo II. Just tell them to do without X that they really love about Diablo II and they will get furious. Then repeat their mindless remark "What, do you want Diablo 2.5?"
I believe that we can change Diablo 3, let's just keep at the fight.
I finally sat down and read the whole thread and this is one of the more constructive posts made with a lot of good points that adress a lot of concearns with logic and fact.
I never specified a time. Do not try and patronize me for things I do not say. I want change, I do not care if it happens tomorrow or a year from now. We must all fight for what we think is the correct path. Blizzard is one of the few companies that will actually listen if enough people voice out their opinions.
I think it is you who is ignorant. Blizzard listens to the fans because it is their single greatest strength and one of the many reasons that they are so successful.
There was very little fact and the only logic found is that of someone who hasn't played Diablo 1 or 2 and bases his logic around incorrect facts such as "Blizzard made Diablo 1". He draws parallels between Diablo and the Warhammer universe which is about as correct as drawing a parallel between the smurfs and the A-Team.
Even further, he brings in a 'real life' picture which is about as real as taking the picture and adjusting the brightness, contrast, and color values in photoshop. It's all bunk and has no merit.
The biggest issue in the post is the fact that he brings up "DISCO D2". It shows a fatal misunderstanding of the game and the colors chosen and I feel the Blizzard art guys are making the same mistake.
Power in Diablo 1 and 2 is signified by the colors. There is a reason why those super-baddies were bright colors - because they were powerful. They stuck out because of this.
The power of the spell can be visually seen by how bright it is. Things like meteor, ice orb, bone spear, etc. All of these look bright and colorful, first and foremost, so we can see it against the dark of the game. This is why we can still see ice spells in Act 5 but are unable to see ice spells in Act 3 of Titan Quest. It has everything to do with the spells.
Even further, the effects of the game (curses, poisons, ice, etc) are easily seen due to the color of the effects. We all know when an enemy is poisoned because they are bright green. We all know when an enemy is frozen because they are bright blue. It's a contrast against the darkened, gritty landscape that catches the attention of the eye.
If you examine every one of the D2 shots in his post, you see tons of color. Examine more closely. Where do you see all this color?
In the player and monsters, not in the location.
This is a point many people who haven't played Diablo tend to make. They associate the color found in the world of D3 with the color found from the players and monsters in D1 and D2. Those of us who are complaining about the bright nature of Diablo 3 do not understand why:
1. The Tristram Cathedral (seen in Diablo 1) is so bright and not dark (especially since Deckard Cain mentions that it is 'so dark' that you can 'disorient yourself'.
2. Why the outside is so colorful (as is shown in all of Diablo 2... jungles tend to be very lush in real life yet Act 3 was not).
3. Why the world doesn't match the majority of the concept art. The only concept art it matches is a gem mine which looks straight out of a childrens book.
All we, the players, are asking is for them to be more true to the franchise. The developers even said that they wanted to respect the franchise. We don't see this mainly because we don't see the similarities between the Diablo 1 Tristram Cathedral and the Diablo 3 Tristram Cathedral. 20 years does not fill a cathedral with a blue-green glow nor does it change the fact that demons are in the cathedral now and the place looks incredibly neat and tidy with little to no dead bodies on the ground, no fires, no destroyed furniture or land scape (besides what is destroyed or triggered by the player)... nothing like this at all is going on.
Yeah, it's early. This is why everyone is making a huge stink about it. If it's caught early it can be fixed quickly and efficiently. A lot of people who are arguing against this stating that "OH MY IT WILL TAKE FOREVER" don't understand how to fix a problem and are, to be honest, a bit immature.
You don't fix a problem by waiting until whatever it is is complete and mask it by telling the fans (the loyal fan base... the fan base that has been playing the same game for 8 years and has been waiting nearly all 8 of those years just for the announcement and when the announcement comes we are all met with a mix of excitement and disappointment that it doesn't look anything like what we expected) to darken up your monitor. It doesn't work like that.
That was actually the first thing i did, is download the full rez one for about a day Didn't even watch the low-rez ones, I wanted to see it full blown the first time around.
A large number people who do not want any changes seem to do so solely to have the game cranked out as soon as possible. Come on guys, look at how long D2 has been played, imagine how long D3 will last us. A few months difference will pale in comparison to the time that people will be playing this game when it comes out.
And another thing i forgot to specify on, the *customizable* skill points (dexterity, strength, vitality, etc). How much u wanna bet they took that out?