Yeah.
Let's think about it for a second.
The maps in Diablo are RANDOMLY generated.
And obviously, an editor for randomly generated maps is possible, right?
You cannot use a map editor with D3, and there is no reason (imo) to want to.
No from me.
The fact that it is random makes it more accessible to moding. You could line up several boss battles and have a tournament to see who finishes with the fastest time. There are hella epic battles to be had. Don't tell me there is no reason. The moding community demands it!
So what, it would be more like Warcraft? I could make the most insanely impossible map ever so people join and die right away. I just dont like the idea.
Ok. I've seen the arguements why some people are against any kind of official world editor or modding Tools. So let me make some counter arguements why I support it. I created the Diablo 2 mod Hell Unleashed, want to see what I accomplished with the Diablo 2 tools? Check it out http://arimyth.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/hell.htm that was two years of my life and one of the most popular multiplayer mods available...
Myself and many other modders who worked on Diablo 2 only found things like this to keep us entertained with the game after so many years... If I was unable to create Hell Unleashed or play other peoples creations such as Eastern Sun and Meridian, I would have lost interest in Diablo 2 soon after 1.10. The game gets so repetetive/tedious and bland after awhile, the random content just reshuffles the same things over and over. and how many Baal runs can you do before it gets old? .. The modding community wants to see advancements in modding in Diablo 3 over Diablo 2, as everyone wants to see advancement in all areas of the game, the modding community should not be shunned, we want more features and more tools, whether it be a full on world editor or simple some official modding tools... Arguements I have seen well...
1.) A world editor is not Diablo, this is not an RTS game and Diablo 2 had nothing like this.
NWN, Titan's Quest and Sacred 2 are all of a genre similar to Diablo 2, all feature an editor or toolset. Diablo 2 did not have an official map editor, but one was created by fans and utilized by many in the modding community, including myself. Blizzard also left the game very open ended to modding, userfriendly and easy to mod A LOT of the game... anything that was not hardcoded, they simply didn't allow mods on battle.net, which is why many probably don't even known about this side of D2... Yes Diablo 2 did not have OFFICIAL editors or support, but this is Diablo 3 and the modding community wants to see Blizzard take it a step further and give us a high quality editor like we saw in Warcraft 3 or improved modding tools/abilities...
2.) Diablo maps are randomly generated, a map editor wouldn't work, you don't need a map editor.
That's a load a BS! For one, not all maps are randomly generated, most are yes but there are also many pre-set maps, atleast there were in Diablo 2. Inner/Outer Cloister, Chaos Sanctuary, Baal's Throne Room, Mephisto's Floor, Andariel's Floor, The Graveyard. Pretty much any of the most challenging, epic maps were all pre-set and not random in their design/layout. obviously there will be pre-set maps in D3 and obviously Blizzard will need a means to create them. Pre-set maps simply means, more strategic placement of monsters, traps, gauntlet areas and bosses. For my mod I had a strong balance of both random areas and huge created dungeons such as the Arcane Observatory, Fortress of Zakarum, and Asylum of War to name a few, which were huge dungeons that I hand crafted with a third party map editor and players of my mod often enjoyed my created dungeons a lot more then the random ones because of their creative/challenging design... not just a big maze filled randomly placed named mobs. So there is a place for pre-set maps in Diablo just as there is randomly generated areas and both should be utilized, although I agree the majority of the dungeons should be random, it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a world editor to take advantage of... Maybe even a built in feature in the editor to create a random dungeon that can be tweaked.
3.) People would easily exploit this and create maps with uber loot and xp on battle.net
Easy solution, don't allow mods on battle.net, leave it open.net and single player or if mods are on battle.net simple make it so that any unique mod has it's own ladder and characters for that mod can only be played in that mod and no other. Pretty simple! In Diablo 2, my mod Hell Unleashed was only compatable with Hell Unleashed created characters, normal D2 characters would not work in HU or vice versa, or with any other mods for that matter... When you created an HU character, it was for HU and no other mod, they simply were not compatible and you'd even get an error message if you tried.
4.) To many crap quality maps/mods
So what? If you don't like em then don't play em, stick to Diablo 3 in it's pure form. But I am an artist and a designer, I like to create my own mods/maps for many games and I spent over 2 years creating Hell Unleashed for Diablo 2 and grew a large fan base because of it, who will no doubt be eagerly awaiting HU 2 when Diablo 3 is released, as eager as I want to create it. I get that some people will be content with Diablo 3 and no interest in custom maps/mods at all and don't feel they have their place. But don't be short-sited and try and screw over the modding community, if you don't want a world editor or modding tools, then simply don't take advantage of them, but don't be strongly oposed to one. Play Diablo 3 as it was meant to be played, but why should the modding community be kicked into the dirt? Reading some of the comments in the world editor poll I was pretty disgusted by the ignorance I saw that basicly boiled down to the modding community has no place in Diablo and we don't belong in the Diablo series, despite the fact that Diablo 2 modding was extremely popular and has a lot of dedicated fans who still work on creating new and interesting mods for a game that's 8 years old. I put years of hardwork into creating Hell Unleashed, so when i see people saying "modding and map editing doesn't belong in Diablo" or "this is not some rts game" or "the game is random, doesn;t need maps or mods" It's like a slap in the face to my hardwork and the hardwork of hundreds of others who worked on and continue to work in diablo 2 maps / mods and tools ... If this was not available in Diablo 2 then myself and many others would have quit shortly after 1.10 was released.
Make no mistake there is a huge mapping/modding community for Diablo 2. Don't believe me, visit Phrozen Keep and Planet Diablo and see for yourself. We want this trend to continue on into Diablo 3, with more features, more powers, more user friendly interfaces and god willing a full blown editor with the same quality of Warcraft 3, which I believe to date is the greatest editor to ever grace a computer game. Blizzard knows how to make good games, and good editors and I want to see both in Diablo 3. There are no negatives to having one, and it does have a place in Diablo 3, just as it had it's place in Diablo 2. So please don't be short-sited and understand there are many different fanbases in the Diablo series and the modding community is and has been a big one since Diablo 2 was first released and it doesn't help are cause to see reasons based on ignorance of why Diablo 3 should have no editor or modding support of any kind. Yes I will love to play and enjoy Diablo 3, I'm looking forward to it. But if there is no editor and any means of modding the game easily then my run with Diablo 3 will most likely be short lived, as it would have been with Diablo 2.
That's pretty much all I've got to say on the subject.
Diablo 2 modding started by Blizzard leaving everything open ended. you needed to extract and edit txt files in excel, but blizzard made it very userfriendly and easy. I would perfer if Blizzard do a high quality world editor for D3 because they can, they have proven they can create the hgihest quality of editors that are user friendly, so why not? But not at the very least I want to see more modding features/more powers and possibly some official toosl... if not it'll be a long crawl before modding beomes reasonable... Even now 8 years later people are still working on creating tools to unlock more of Diablo 2's hardcoded features.
Why the hell does everyone assossiate a map editor with warcraft 3? NWN1&2, titan's quest and Sacred 2 are all of a similar genre and all have editors. This is not an RTS exclusive feature.
Congratulations. Long time lurker here, but you guys prompted me to register in order to stave off your idiocy in this thread alone.
Most of the naysayers so far seem to have this retarded assumption that adding an editor would somehow pervert the game. They also say that it's far too late in development now and everything's been decided.
Wrong. The game is in pre-alpha and at this point, nothing is final, so there is still room for discussion. This means that an editor could still be implemented.
Some other false arguments you guys put up include (after reading all the posts so far):
-Adding an editor to Diablo 3 would make it too much like Warcraft 3.
Actually, this one has already been semi-debunked, but I'd like to go over it in a bit more detail. RTSes are not the sole genre with built-in editors. Many popular FPSes as well as RPGs, as already noted, have used editors for custom user creations successfully, some that have become more popular than the official campaigns.
Adding user-based mods would hurt the game's lifespan.
This one's just plain f***ing stupid. Neverwinter Nights is still going strong today, many people still left in Starcraft play custom, as well as people in WC3. FPSes like UT, including the classic UT99 still have a strong core userbase due to the extensive mod community that has sprang up around it. Also, this would add some more variety to Blizzard events such as WWI and Blizzcon if they openly embraced mods, not just for D3...
The maps are completely randomly generated. What part of that don't you idiot, hippy, mapmakers understand?
Well first of all, if you even knew how the maps in D1 and D2 worked, you'd know that they aren't truly randomly generated. In fact, most locations were static- such as boss areas, and even the other areas all had maybe as many as 6 different presets- like Arcane & Chaos Sanctuary.
In fact, true randomized map generation still depends on certain algorithms and pre-constructed pieces, so likely they just broke all the maps up into tinier pieces and made different versions of them, in the event it was REALLY randomized and not just random presets. Obviously, this is very buggy in itself- doors leading to nowhere, seals outside of town, stairs bridging to themselves...
Adding an editor really doesn't do anything but allow players to customize these pieces or fully flesh out creations of their choice.
The maps will be abused. People will line up monsters for 10K XP runs!
You really think Blizzard is that stupid? Is that how the current system in WC3 works. Is that how it works in NVN? This is plain common sense, even if you didn't bother to ever look up how other games handle custom content. Obviously, the two would be separate and you wouldn't get XP for any rigged games... and for that same reason, your character wouldn't be affected by whatever happens to you in a "So-called" open game. Nuff said.
Developing an editor would draw resources from the game. If fans want the tools, fans will make them, yada yada. I don't want, Diablo commands it and whatever other foolish reasons there are.
First of all, as one poster already said, most games have their own internal editor already in place to create maps from a core toolkit so the programmers needn't stand over level designers 24/7, helping them compile new maps. A "lite" version of this editor would basically just be a tweaked version of that, and wouldn't require much modification at all. If in the event it does take too much time, all that is needed is to update it in future releases.
For the people who said Blizzard has never openly embraced mods, that's true. They haven't. And for people that talk about being fans of their own games, this is pretty ironic. That doesn't mean they could change that. It wouldn't be reversing a stance, just merely allowing the current one to take its full course.
All the issues about fans coming up with their own tools and functions-- they could and still would be able to, even with an official editor, if they chose. And perhaps it will be easy, but if there are many actions and scripted events already in D3, then obviously it'll make mods all the more difficult. Doesn't sound like Blizzard really tolerates mods then after all, now does it?
In fact, Blizzard has flipflopped all over this issue, and have taken a very hostile stance to user-supported mod servers, forcing emulators like bnetd down because they refuse to license or provide some kinda support for mods as it is. To those who whine about security complaints, I'm not saying they should compromise themselves, but some kind of open solution (that can still be used for authentication) that can be loaded onto other servers or even for Open Battle.net would nullify many security issues and many anti-mod sentiments they express currently.
There is no con to you, the "purist" player, if you do not wish to play custom content. By all means. But if Diablo 3 DOES turn out to be sh*t and we're stuck with that content, I hope you're happy.
I guess to some people, choice can be an ugly thing.
Ranger - Ranged Weapon Mastery (fire a bow or javelins like a machine gun!), Traps (MK style!), Pets (lions, tigers, and bears oh my!) - physical damage based
Demonologist - Bone Spells (Necro style!), Avatar (shapeshift into a demon!), Furies (evil spirits that hang around you, giving party bonuses) - mix of physical damage and magic
LEAP ATTACK!!!!! PLAGUE OF TOADS!!!!!
SLOW TIME!!!!!
I never really thought about it while playing d1 or 2, but it does seem like a really cool idea. And no, you couldn't transfer loot over the the real battlenet... it would be like open battlenet, do whatever you want, and it wont affect your real character.
I'd only support them doing this if they really opened up modding to go along with it. Give us an option on the main screen to select which mod/world we're using, and then go into the characters that have been created for that combination. Or, alternatively, have a set of 'legit' characters than can only access the unmodded regular world, and a set of 'mod' characters that can go into any combination you feel like.
How can you say a map editor will not be abused. People find ways around everything. I have no problem with a map editor but if you were limited to what you could do whats the point? They are already going to have random maps, and if you cant line up monsters for 10x exp than your map is going to be no different than the ones blizzard made. The reason people play user created content is to be able to play something fresh. I'm sure your not going to memorize all the different variations of blizzards maps.
Also listen to the two posters above me they agree with the open battle net idea.
not really. I havent played the same map twice in Diablo 2 and i've been playing since release. They said the maps will be random generated, so i'm guessing its going to be just as fun.
Players who play mods will be a rather small % of the people who play Diablo 3 ... There is a large community who plays mods in Diablo 2, do you really notice a hit in population numers on b.net ? With that many people playing Diablo 3 you wont notice it, there will always be people to play with and thos thta play a mod will be far fewer in number anyone. It wont make a difference because it's a different type of community... Those who enjoy play mods will play them, those who don't, wont. it's simple. There are hunfreds of mods for Diablo 2 and a huge modding community? And yet on battle.net it is still not hard to find someone to play with or a group, 8 years later so i don't know what your worried about. Those who play mods will be small compared to those who don't... You really thing Diablo 3 is going to have a problem with "lack of players" seriously?
Bottom line there will be modding in Diablo 3, much as there was the same in Diablo 2. The question is, how open ended should Blizzard make it and how accessible should it be? I for one want a world editor because I've seen the quality of the editors Blizzard produces and it makes life a lot easier and less time consuming for modding and creating, which is important in this busy day n age. Diablo 3 will have modding regardless of how you feel about it, it existed in Diablo 2, it will exsist in Diablo 3. I just want them to put more features and power into it this time around and advance the modding ease and possabilities. Otherwise the D2 modding community, including myself will prolly be overly pissed off and leave the game after a few play thru's. We mod and play mods to keep the game fresh and interesting, we create them because it's an outlet to express our creative and artistic side. If Blizzard doesn't give that to us then we'll find out outlet in different games. Sacred 2 is be released later this year and is an action-rpg and they confirmed a type of world/quest editor.
How can you say a map editor will not be abused. People find ways around everything. I have no problem with a map editor but if you were limited to what you could do whats the point? They are already going to have random maps, and if you cant line up monsters for 10x exp than your map is going to be no different than the ones blizzard made. The reason people play user created content is to be able to play something fresh. I'm sure your not going to memorize all the different variations of blizzards maps.
Also listen to the two posters above me they agree with the open battle net idea.
You miss the point- twice, if possible.
First off, if people really were bent on running mods online so that they could hack, it woulda been widespread by now. But the fact is, the more settings in the original you tweak and try to get away with, the more likely you are of being caught. Think about how often maphackers are caught in D2, then compare it to the people who frequently dupe or run pickit bots all the time. The more packets you hijack, the worse it becomes. Go ahead. Download a mod and try running it on B.net. I know you won't anyway, but I don't care as long as you get the picture.
Secondly- you're not understanding what the map editor would really be used for. The best example of a mod-based gaming community would have to be Unreal Tournament. I own the latest version, UT3, and right now, their $1,000,000 "Make Something Unreal" Contest will undoubtedly bring in loads of new content, such as new play modes, scripts, models, maps, weapons, you name it.
When you open things up, content will always flourish. And the best part is, there's an audience for everything. There's wiggle room. That's the reason why UT99 has lasted with a core base TO THIS DAY.
If we, for instance, simply wanted to go into CS and move the pentagram to where Diablo spawned, I doubt this idea would have any steam.
Coupled with another post suggesting the community would be somewhat fractured-- so what? That's the point. You see, from the onset, mod makers, custom map editors, whatever you wanna call them, accept that their work will generally not be seen by the same audience. They know that the people who look into their work are very open minded to hack their own install in the first place (as it stands in D2) and some even go underground to play with each other on bnet.d servers. I've been on my share of those.
Hell, just because some people wanna deviate from the mainstream, does that really mean it shouldn't be supported? Where does this idea come from that everyone must be homogeneous to each other? There will ALWAYS be people who will wanna play the original. The overwhelming hatred of this idea here proves it (though also this shows extreme ignorance).
This is kinda :offtopic:, but think of other mediums where fans have gone in and tweaked or added completely new content to original works. Bands that release their songs for remixing, fans that cut up their favorite movies to make them better. Sure, most of you would call that crazy and would be content to stick with the original, and that's fine. The original will always be honored... but the thing that sparks them in the first place is devotion and a yearning to take the game further than what it was meant to be... into whatever the editor has in mind. Some mainstream successes have even gotten their start in this underground. So, tell me again why actually fostering this is so wrong.
That's the reason why UT99 has lasted with a firm core playerbase TO THIS DAY.
And Diablo 2 has lasted with a firm player base without a map editor. Listen my point is I'm all down for a map editor just on open b net. If you don't agree with that ok thats cool.
Modders did some amazing things with Diablo 2 (Median 2007/2008/XL FTW!!), and that was without a World Editor. I think Blizzard adding a World Editor would take away too much from the gameplay, and the content. It's not necessary for people to mod.
I don't think I'd mind an editor included with Diablo III. I'm not sure a lot of players would actually use it properly (if at all), but it would be a nice inclusion for those who want to put their own twist on Sanctuary.
Neverwinter Nights is a great example of a game that includes an editor or toolset. The game itself is great, but what really made it popular is, you guessed it, the user mods. There are entire communities dedicated to creating and editing Neverwinter Nights maps, and a good majority of them have been successful and fun play.
There are dedicated fans that already make excellent mods and area expansions for Diablo II, with many more wanting to learn how, so why not support those users as well?
Exactly what I was thinking. Neverwinter Nights had such a lovely toolset, and such a large modding community.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Myself and many other modders who worked on Diablo 2 only found things like this to keep us entertained with the game after so many years... If I was unable to create Hell Unleashed or play other peoples creations such as Eastern Sun and Meridian, I would have lost interest in Diablo 2 soon after 1.10. The game gets so repetetive/tedious and bland after awhile, the random content just reshuffles the same things over and over. and how many Baal runs can you do before it gets old? .. The modding community wants to see advancements in modding in Diablo 3 over Diablo 2, as everyone wants to see advancement in all areas of the game, the modding community should not be shunned, we want more features and more tools, whether it be a full on world editor or simple some official modding tools... Arguements I have seen well...
1.) A world editor is not Diablo, this is not an RTS game and Diablo 2 had nothing like this.
NWN, Titan's Quest and Sacred 2 are all of a genre similar to Diablo 2, all feature an editor or toolset. Diablo 2 did not have an official map editor, but one was created by fans and utilized by many in the modding community, including myself. Blizzard also left the game very open ended to modding, userfriendly and easy to mod A LOT of the game... anything that was not hardcoded, they simply didn't allow mods on battle.net, which is why many probably don't even known about this side of D2... Yes Diablo 2 did not have OFFICIAL editors or support, but this is Diablo 3 and the modding community wants to see Blizzard take it a step further and give us a high quality editor like we saw in Warcraft 3 or improved modding tools/abilities...
2.) Diablo maps are randomly generated, a map editor wouldn't work, you don't need a map editor.
That's a load a BS! For one, not all maps are randomly generated, most are yes but there are also many pre-set maps, atleast there were in Diablo 2. Inner/Outer Cloister, Chaos Sanctuary, Baal's Throne Room, Mephisto's Floor, Andariel's Floor, The Graveyard. Pretty much any of the most challenging, epic maps were all pre-set and not random in their design/layout. obviously there will be pre-set maps in D3 and obviously Blizzard will need a means to create them. Pre-set maps simply means, more strategic placement of monsters, traps, gauntlet areas and bosses. For my mod I had a strong balance of both random areas and huge created dungeons such as the Arcane Observatory, Fortress of Zakarum, and Asylum of War to name a few, which were huge dungeons that I hand crafted with a third party map editor and players of my mod often enjoyed my created dungeons a lot more then the random ones because of their creative/challenging design... not just a big maze filled randomly placed named mobs. So there is a place for pre-set maps in Diablo just as there is randomly generated areas and both should be utilized, although I agree the majority of the dungeons should be random, it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a world editor to take advantage of... Maybe even a built in feature in the editor to create a random dungeon that can be tweaked.
3.) People would easily exploit this and create maps with uber loot and xp on battle.net
Easy solution, don't allow mods on battle.net, leave it open.net and single player or if mods are on battle.net simple make it so that any unique mod has it's own ladder and characters for that mod can only be played in that mod and no other. Pretty simple! In Diablo 2, my mod Hell Unleashed was only compatable with Hell Unleashed created characters, normal D2 characters would not work in HU or vice versa, or with any other mods for that matter... When you created an HU character, it was for HU and no other mod, they simply were not compatible and you'd even get an error message if you tried.
4.) To many crap quality maps/mods
So what? If you don't like em then don't play em, stick to Diablo 3 in it's pure form. But I am an artist and a designer, I like to create my own mods/maps for many games and I spent over 2 years creating Hell Unleashed for Diablo 2 and grew a large fan base because of it, who will no doubt be eagerly awaiting HU 2 when Diablo 3 is released, as eager as I want to create it. I get that some people will be content with Diablo 3 and no interest in custom maps/mods at all and don't feel they have their place. But don't be short-sited and try and screw over the modding community, if you don't want a world editor or modding tools, then simply don't take advantage of them, but don't be strongly oposed to one. Play Diablo 3 as it was meant to be played, but why should the modding community be kicked into the dirt? Reading some of the comments in the world editor poll I was pretty disgusted by the ignorance I saw that basicly boiled down to the modding community has no place in Diablo and we don't belong in the Diablo series, despite the fact that Diablo 2 modding was extremely popular and has a lot of dedicated fans who still work on creating new and interesting mods for a game that's 8 years old. I put years of hardwork into creating Hell Unleashed, so when i see people saying "modding and map editing doesn't belong in Diablo" or "this is not some rts game" or "the game is random, doesn;t need maps or mods" It's like a slap in the face to my hardwork and the hardwork of hundreds of others who worked on and continue to work in diablo 2 maps / mods and tools ... If this was not available in Diablo 2 then myself and many others would have quit shortly after 1.10 was released.
Make no mistake there is a huge mapping/modding community for Diablo 2. Don't believe me, visit Phrozen Keep and Planet Diablo and see for yourself. We want this trend to continue on into Diablo 3, with more features, more powers, more user friendly interfaces and god willing a full blown editor with the same quality of Warcraft 3, which I believe to date is the greatest editor to ever grace a computer game. Blizzard knows how to make good games, and good editors and I want to see both in Diablo 3. There are no negatives to having one, and it does have a place in Diablo 3, just as it had it's place in Diablo 2. So please don't be short-sited and understand there are many different fanbases in the Diablo series and the modding community is and has been a big one since Diablo 2 was first released and it doesn't help are cause to see reasons based on ignorance of why Diablo 3 should have no editor or modding support of any kind. Yes I will love to play and enjoy Diablo 3, I'm looking forward to it. But if there is no editor and any means of modding the game easily then my run with Diablo 3 will most likely be short lived, as it would have been with Diablo 2.
That's pretty much all I've got to say on the subject.
Terry (Soulmancer)
Creator of Hell Unleashed
Why the hell does everyone assossiate a map editor with warcraft 3? NWN1&2, titan's quest and Sacred 2 are all of a similar genre and all have editors. This is not an RTS exclusive feature.
Most of the naysayers so far seem to have this retarded assumption that adding an editor would somehow pervert the game. They also say that it's far too late in development now and everything's been decided.
Wrong. The game is in pre-alpha and at this point, nothing is final, so there is still room for discussion. This means that an editor could still be implemented.
Some other false arguments you guys put up include (after reading all the posts so far):
-Adding an editor to Diablo 3 would make it too much like Warcraft 3.
Actually, this one has already been semi-debunked, but I'd like to go over it in a bit more detail. RTSes are not the sole genre with built-in editors. Many popular FPSes as well as RPGs, as already noted, have used editors for custom user creations successfully, some that have become more popular than the official campaigns.
Adding user-based mods would hurt the game's lifespan.
This one's just plain f***ing stupid. Neverwinter Nights is still going strong today, many people still left in Starcraft play custom, as well as people in WC3. FPSes like UT, including the classic UT99 still have a strong core userbase due to the extensive mod community that has sprang up around it. Also, this would add some more variety to Blizzard events such as WWI and Blizzcon if they openly embraced mods, not just for D3...
The maps are completely randomly generated. What part of that don't you idiot, hippy, mapmakers understand?
Well first of all, if you even knew how the maps in D1 and D2 worked, you'd know that they aren't truly randomly generated. In fact, most locations were static- such as boss areas, and even the other areas all had maybe as many as 6 different presets- like Arcane & Chaos Sanctuary.
In fact, true randomized map generation still depends on certain algorithms and pre-constructed pieces, so likely they just broke all the maps up into tinier pieces and made different versions of them, in the event it was REALLY randomized and not just random presets. Obviously, this is very buggy in itself- doors leading to nowhere, seals outside of town, stairs bridging to themselves...
Adding an editor really doesn't do anything but allow players to customize these pieces or fully flesh out creations of their choice.
The maps will be abused. People will line up monsters for 10K XP runs!
You really think Blizzard is that stupid? Is that how the current system in WC3 works. Is that how it works in NVN? This is plain common sense, even if you didn't bother to ever look up how other games handle custom content. Obviously, the two would be separate and you wouldn't get XP for any rigged games... and for that same reason, your character wouldn't be affected by whatever happens to you in a "So-called" open game. Nuff said.
Developing an editor would draw resources from the game. If fans want the tools, fans will make them, yada yada. I don't want, Diablo commands it and whatever other foolish reasons there are.
First of all, as one poster already said, most games have their own internal editor already in place to create maps from a core toolkit so the programmers needn't stand over level designers 24/7, helping them compile new maps. A "lite" version of this editor would basically just be a tweaked version of that, and wouldn't require much modification at all. If in the event it does take too much time, all that is needed is to update it in future releases.
For the people who said Blizzard has never openly embraced mods, that's true. They haven't. And for people that talk about being fans of their own games, this is pretty ironic. That doesn't mean they could change that. It wouldn't be reversing a stance, just merely allowing the current one to take its full course.
All the issues about fans coming up with their own tools and functions-- they could and still would be able to, even with an official editor, if they chose. And perhaps it will be easy, but if there are many actions and scripted events already in D3, then obviously it'll make mods all the more difficult. Doesn't sound like Blizzard really tolerates mods then after all, now does it?
In fact, Blizzard has flipflopped all over this issue, and have taken a very hostile stance to user-supported mod servers, forcing emulators like bnetd down because they refuse to license or provide some kinda support for mods as it is. To those who whine about security complaints, I'm not saying they should compromise themselves, but some kind of open solution (that can still be used for authentication) that can be loaded onto other servers or even for Open Battle.net would nullify many security issues and many anti-mod sentiments they express currently.
There is no con to you, the "purist" player, if you do not wish to play custom content. By all means. But if Diablo 3 DOES turn out to be sh*t and we're stuck with that content, I hope you're happy.
I guess to some people, choice can be an ugly thing.
Demonologist - Bone Spells (Necro style!), Avatar (shapeshift into a demon!), Furies (evil spirits that hang around you, giving party bonuses) - mix of physical damage and magic
LEAP ATTACK!!!!!
PLAGUE OF TOADS!!!!!
SLOW TIME!!!!!
Also listen to the two posters above me they agree with the open battle net idea.
We want world editors
Bottom line there will be modding in Diablo 3, much as there was the same in Diablo 2. The question is, how open ended should Blizzard make it and how accessible should it be? I for one want a world editor because I've seen the quality of the editors Blizzard produces and it makes life a lot easier and less time consuming for modding and creating, which is important in this busy day n age. Diablo 3 will have modding regardless of how you feel about it, it existed in Diablo 2, it will exsist in Diablo 3. I just want them to put more features and power into it this time around and advance the modding ease and possabilities. Otherwise the D2 modding community, including myself will prolly be overly pissed off and leave the game after a few play thru's. We mod and play mods to keep the game fresh and interesting, we create them because it's an outlet to express our creative and artistic side. If Blizzard doesn't give that to us then we'll find out outlet in different games. Sacred 2 is be released later this year and is an action-rpg and they confirmed a type of world/quest editor.
You miss the point- twice, if possible.
First off, if people really were bent on running mods online so that they could hack, it woulda been widespread by now. But the fact is, the more settings in the original you tweak and try to get away with, the more likely you are of being caught. Think about how often maphackers are caught in D2, then compare it to the people who frequently dupe or run pickit bots all the time. The more packets you hijack, the worse it becomes. Go ahead. Download a mod and try running it on B.net. I know you won't anyway, but I don't care as long as you get the picture.
Secondly- you're not understanding what the map editor would really be used for. The best example of a mod-based gaming community would have to be Unreal Tournament. I own the latest version, UT3, and right now, their $1,000,000 "Make Something Unreal" Contest will undoubtedly bring in loads of new content, such as new play modes, scripts, models, maps, weapons, you name it.
When you open things up, content will always flourish. And the best part is, there's an audience for everything. There's wiggle room. That's the reason why UT99 has lasted with a core base TO THIS DAY.
If we, for instance, simply wanted to go into CS and move the pentagram to where Diablo spawned, I doubt this idea would have any steam.
Coupled with another post suggesting the community would be somewhat fractured-- so what? That's the point. You see, from the onset, mod makers, custom map editors, whatever you wanna call them, accept that their work will generally not be seen by the same audience. They know that the people who look into their work are very open minded to hack their own install in the first place (as it stands in D2) and some even go underground to play with each other on bnet.d servers. I've been on my share of those.
Hell, just because some people wanna deviate from the mainstream, does that really mean it shouldn't be supported? Where does this idea come from that everyone must be homogeneous to each other? There will ALWAYS be people who will wanna play the original. The overwhelming hatred of this idea here proves it (though also this shows extreme ignorance).
This is kinda :offtopic:, but think of other mediums where fans have gone in and tweaked or added completely new content to original works. Bands that release their songs for remixing, fans that cut up their favorite movies to make them better. Sure, most of you would call that crazy and would be content to stick with the original, and that's fine. The original will always be honored... but the thing that sparks them in the first place is devotion and a yearning to take the game further than what it was meant to be... into whatever the editor has in mind. Some mainstream successes have even gotten their start in this underground. So, tell me again why actually fostering this is so wrong.
And Diablo 2 has lasted with a firm player base without a map editor. Listen my point is I'm all down for a map editor just on open b net. If you don't agree with that ok thats cool.
Exactly what I was thinking. Neverwinter Nights had such a lovely toolset, and such a large modding community.
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