Hey guys, I finally got around to leveling my Monk (been playing Barbarian since release), and while it's a lot of fun to play, I find my survivability is really low compared to my Barb. I feel like elites on MP2 completely melt my Monk, whereas elites on MP3 can't even scratch my Barb.
I'm hoping some of you more experienced Monks can lend a hand and tell me what's wrong, because the defensives between the two aren't that different. Just the Armor is different.
Is that really what Monks do? Just power through it with damage and Life Steal? It just seems like something is wrong because affixes that put stuff on the ground just absolutely drain my health. I even remember an Act I skeleton champion pack where one of them hit me and it probably took out 10% of my health.
It just seems so odd compared to my Barb who just stands there and takes it without batting an eye, but if that's really what Monks do then I guess I'll just have to get more damage and Life Steal.
The extra 20k health on my Barb is just a side-effect of having some Life% affixes on gear I was buying. I could probably lose 15k of it and not notice. I do think some more damage reduction would go a lot way for my Monk, so maybe I'll see if I can't get some +Armor gear while getting some more damage. I just wonder what would go a longer way towards helping me survive.
Dodge, brother. Cannot stress enough how that will help you once you get it over 45% or so. There are a few ways to add dodge.
Dex inherently scales your dodge up.
If you DW than there's the Passive, Guardians Path.
Mantra of Evasion/Hard Target.
Deadly Reach/Keen Eye
Peep my build in my siggy. It's an original DW build I crafted and it spikes for very impressive AoE DPS plus has great survivability (with the right gear). Like you, I have relatively mundane Life and DPS. Yet I hang with some tough shit pretty well.
A lot of Monks get themselves into trouble from using Thunderclap. It repeatedly draws you right into affix pools. With the right IAS, Deadly Reach and some good technique will get rid of that issue.
Beacon of Ytar is awesome-sauce. It lowers the cooldown for important survival resources like Serenity and even Health Potions.
Hm, I will keep that in mind. I did notice how Thunderclap would frequently ruin my positioning, which I find so important to get right on my Barb. Maybe I'll swap out the rune, or try a new generator. I was playing around with my runes and passives last night, but I didn't think to try Beacon of Ytar or a different generator rune/ability. I'll try that before buying any new gear.
Any other advice anyone has I'll definitely try out.
Dodge, HP, and more dps! In that order. You should also aim for 5k armor at a minimum. More attack speed is nice to.
I believe i have around 55% dodge unbuffed. It is key to being a monk. And more attack speed will increase your dps and survivability.
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
Hm, I will keep that in mind. I did notice how Thunderclap would frequently ruin my positioning, which I find so important to get right on my Barb. Maybe I'll swap out the rune, or try a new generator. I was playing around with my runes and passives last night, but I didn't think to try Beacon of Ytar or a different generator rune/ability. I'll try that before buying any new gear.
Any other advice anyone has I'll definitely try out.
Deadly Reach strikes a lot of people as too slow and awkward. But I love it. It allows you to continue to strike while jailed/walled. I constantly move out of affix pools and strike from outside of the pool. DR's rune Keen Eye adds a full 50% armor buff (50% of total armor), which beats what Seize The Initiative gives you (50% of total dex to armor).
People talk so much about skills and items they forget to mention what technique you use while playing. My play-style is very aggressive, as opposed to face-tanking one target then the next. I typically roll around Elite packs, tagging them with EP, roll around tag another and so on. Set 'em all up with EP tags, hit Overawe for the 3 second bonus DPS, then Seven Sided Strike their asses into next week.
Serenity is another skill I see misused often. It can be a last second life saver, it's good for that. But that's not the correct way to use it IMO. Use Ascension rune for the extra second (big difference) and engage Serenity BEFORE you take much damage, not once you're almost dead.
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
I've yet to add LS, but I'm still working on gaining DPS. From what I understand, LS is most effective once you climb over 60-70k DPS.
I use 800+ LoH and just shy of 1k Life Regen (Thank you Blackthorne's). Life Regen is a funny thing. It behaves like a bonus to your LoH during combat, as it is continually pumping life back into your bulb. I see ticks of 1200-2000+ every half second while fighting.
Blackthorne's 4 set piece bonus (with boots) can offer up to a whopping 14% damage reduction against all Elite damage (ALL~ this includes ground affixs etc).
Dodge, HP, and more dps! In that order. You should also aim for 5k armor at a minimum. More attack speed is nice to.
I believe i have around 55% dodge unbuffed. It is key to being a monk. And more attack speed will increase your dps and survivability.
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
I do have a weapon with a decent amount of Life on Hit on it. You think I should replace the Life Steal one with it? I'll try to get more dodge, since that's been a big thing I've been hearing. What's the best way to get more dodge? Just more Dex, or also with some abilities/passives?
I did take Guardian's Path, and it might be a little better, but it could also be that they lowered the damage bonus of Monster Power levels. I'm at 48.2% dodge, so maybe I'll try and grab some Armor.
I did take Guardian's Path, and it might be a little better, but it could also be that they lowered the damage bonus of Monster Power levels. I'm at 48.2% dodge, so maybe I'll try and grab some Armor.
Mantra of Evasion/Hard Target
I don't use it (I chose Conviction/Overawe because my DPS is too low), but as an example;
My Dodge is 49.2% standard w/ GP. After Engaging MoE it goes up to 63.3%, which will have you dodging "most" damage. If I had better DPS, I'd be using it still. Hard Target grants you another 20% armor as well.
If you're having serious survival issues, this is your ticket.
Watch out for the Reflect Damage affix. It no longer can be dodged by Monks. The only way to combat RD is with heavy armor and LS/LoH, and still it can be a brute, especially if you're dealing large amounts of DPS. Some 20% (? confirm anyone ?) of the damage you deal will reflect back at you.
So with RD on an Elite, if you crit a target for 150k, you're getting smashed with 30k unmitigated damage.
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
I've yet to add LS, but I'm still working on gaining DPS. From what I understand, LS is most effective once you climb over 60-70k DPS.
I use 800+ LoH and just shy of 1k Life Regen (Thank you Blackthorne's). Life Regen is a funny thing. It behaves like a bonus to your LoH during combat, as it is continually pumping life back into your bulb. I see ticks of 1200-2000+ every half second while fighting.
Blackthorne's 4 set piece bonus (with boots) can offer up to a whopping 14% damage reduction against all Elite damage (ALL~ this includes ground affixs etc).
if you do the math on the best lifesteal 1-hander (3%) lifesteal for a 70K dps character, you get this: 3% is actually nerfed in inferno to 0.5% (20% of what you see). take 70000 x 0.005 and you get 350. So, if you were actually hitting for 70K each hit, you'd get 350 LOH effectively. Double that if you have 6% life steal for a total of 700 LOH effectively. So, if you only have one weapon lifesteal isnt very efficient.
Edit: its actually not 1.0% for 6%, it would be nerfed to 1.2%. so you would have 840 LOH effectively from 6% life steal
Edit again: Forgot to mention that nobody hits for the same dps consistently. go to www.d3up.com and import your build. it shows you the range of dps you do with and with crits
i use hard target because it also effects the members of my group. i dont always play with GP. but when i do, i'm also in the 60%+ range. its crazy nice at times. But i like movement speed.
Another great way to build some dps is to double up Deadly Reach - keen eye with FOT - Thunder clap. But if you need the spot for something else, dont do it
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
I've yet to add LS, but I'm still working on gaining DPS. From what I understand, LS is most effective once you climb over 60-70k DPS.
I use 800+ LoH and just shy of 1k Life Regen (Thank you Blackthorne's). Life Regen is a funny thing. It behaves like a bonus to your LoH during combat, as it is continually pumping life back into your bulb. I see ticks of 1200-2000+ every half second while fighting.
Blackthorne's 4 set piece bonus (with boots) can offer up to a whopping 14% damage reduction against all Elite damage (ALL~ this includes ground affixs etc).
if you do the math on the best lifesteal 1-hander (3%) lifesteal for a 70K dps character, you get this: 3% is actually nerfed in inferno to 0.5% (20% of what you see). take 70000 x 0.005 and you get 350. So, if you were actually hitting for 70K each hit, you'd get 350 LOH effectively. Double that if you have 6% life steal for a total of 700 LOH effectively. So, if you only have one weapon lifesteal isnt very efficient.
Edit: its actually not 1.0% for 6%, it would be nerfed to 1.2%. so you would have 840 LOH effectively from 6% life steal
somewhat agrees. however, if you have BoH 15% dps buff and mantra of conviction make the mobs take 24% more damage, you end up doing more dps and leech more life, refer to reply#2 that i've posted
Anyway, I'm taking all of your advice into account, and what I'm coming up with is I need more Armor and damage. Next step is figuring out what to upgrade.
I would suggest more armor as well. I still use Seize the Initiative with that I sit at around 4.5k armor. I use the standard Thunderclap/Cyclone build.
You could drop a bit of resistance to grab a couple +armor pieces. I run with 570 all resist and MP2 gives me very few problems unless I'm not paying attention against elites with certain affixes. I also see you are using a spear as an offhand. I'd definitely keep the Echoing Fury as a main hand, but I try for a sword or axe as my offhand. Faster weapons help with LoH.
I've never been able to make the move from Mantra of Evasion to Conviction. I've tried it different times but I just feel like I take a lot more damage without it. I use MoE with the Backlash rune. I like the added AoE for clearing trash clearly. Don't forget to rebuff it when other defensive abilities are on CD the extra dodge has saved me more than a few times.
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I'm hoping some of you more experienced Monks can lend a hand and tell me what's wrong, because the defensives between the two aren't that different. Just the Armor is different.
Monk Profile
Barb Profile
Thanks in advance.
pump ur dps to around 70k, use 5%+ life steal to get a lot of sustain
to achieve 70k, try get as much crit chance and crit dmg as possible
It just seems so odd compared to my Barb who just stands there and takes it without batting an eye, but if that's really what Monks do then I guess I'll just have to get more damage and Life Steal.
Dex inherently scales your dodge up.
If you DW than there's the Passive, Guardians Path.
Mantra of Evasion/Hard Target.
Deadly Reach/Keen Eye
Peep my build in my siggy. It's an original DW build I crafted and it spikes for very impressive AoE DPS plus has great survivability (with the right gear). Like you, I have relatively mundane Life and DPS. Yet I hang with some tough shit pretty well.
A lot of Monks get themselves into trouble from using Thunderclap. It repeatedly draws you right into affix pools. With the right IAS, Deadly Reach and some good technique will get rid of that issue.
Beacon of Ytar is awesome-sauce. It lowers the cooldown for important survival resources like Serenity and even Health Potions.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Any other advice anyone has I'll definitely try out.
I believe i have around 55% dodge unbuffed. It is key to being a monk. And more attack speed will increase your dps and survivability.
i'm also gonna have to say, the 2.2% life steal is pretty weak, especially under 70K dps. Get some more LOH for more sustainability. Life regen never hurt either, you could stand to get more of that. Your barb has over 1K life regen, which helps a lot. Try to get around 750 regen and at least that much LOH. if you can afford LOH and life regen on a weapon, do it.
http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
Deadly Reach strikes a lot of people as too slow and awkward. But I love it. It allows you to continue to strike while jailed/walled. I constantly move out of affix pools and strike from outside of the pool. DR's rune Keen Eye adds a full 50% armor buff (50% of total armor), which beats what Seize The Initiative gives you (50% of total dex to armor).
People talk so much about skills and items they forget to mention what technique you use while playing. My play-style is very aggressive, as opposed to face-tanking one target then the next. I typically roll around Elite packs, tagging them with EP, roll around tag another and so on. Set 'em all up with EP tags, hit Overawe for the 3 second bonus DPS, then Seven Sided Strike their asses into next week.
Serenity is another skill I see misused often. It can be a last second life saver, it's good for that. But that's not the correct way to use it IMO. Use Ascension rune for the extra second (big difference) and engage Serenity BEFORE you take much damage, not once you're almost dead.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I've yet to add LS, but I'm still working on gaining DPS. From what I understand, LS is most effective once you climb over 60-70k DPS.
I use 800+ LoH and just shy of 1k Life Regen (Thank you Blackthorne's). Life Regen is a funny thing. It behaves like a bonus to your LoH during combat, as it is continually pumping life back into your bulb. I see ticks of 1200-2000+ every half second while fighting.
Blackthorne's 4 set piece bonus (with boots) can offer up to a whopping 14% damage reduction against all Elite damage (ALL~ this includes ground affixs etc).
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Armor is huge, as mentioned above, shoot for 5000, but 4600+ is usually very helpful (ammouts are unbuffed other than Seize the Initiative).
Mantra of Evasion/Hard Target
I don't use it (I chose Conviction/Overawe because my DPS is too low), but as an example;
My Dodge is 49.2% standard w/ GP. After Engaging MoE it goes up to 63.3%, which will have you dodging "most" damage. If I had better DPS, I'd be using it still. Hard Target grants you another 20% armor as well.
If you're having serious survival issues, this is your ticket.
Watch out for the Reflect Damage affix. It no longer can be dodged by Monks. The only way to combat RD is with heavy armor and LS/LoH, and still it can be a brute, especially if you're dealing large amounts of DPS. Some 20% (? confirm anyone ?) of the damage you deal will reflect back at you.
So with RD on an Elite, if you crit a target for 150k, you're getting smashed with 30k unmitigated damage.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
if you do the math on the best lifesteal 1-hander (3%) lifesteal for a 70K dps character, you get this: 3% is actually nerfed in inferno to 0.5% (20% of what you see). take 70000 x 0.005 and you get 350. So, if you were actually hitting for 70K each hit, you'd get 350 LOH effectively. Double that if you have 6% life steal for a total of 700 LOH effectively. So, if you only have one weapon lifesteal isnt very efficient.
Edit: its actually not 1.0% for 6%, it would be nerfed to 1.2%. so you would have 840 LOH effectively from 6% life steal
Edit again: Forgot to mention that nobody hits for the same dps consistently. go to www.d3up.com and import your build. it shows you the range of dps you do with and with crits
http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
Another great way to build some dps is to double up Deadly Reach - keen eye with FOT - Thunder clap. But if you need the spot for something else, dont do it
http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
somewhat agrees. however, if you have BoH 15% dps buff and mantra of conviction make the mobs take 24% more damage, you end up doing more dps and leech more life, refer to reply#2 that i've posted
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Anyway, I'm taking all of your advice into account, and what I'm coming up with is I need more Armor and damage. Next step is figuring out what to upgrade.
You could drop a bit of resistance to grab a couple +armor pieces. I run with 570 all resist and MP2 gives me very few problems unless I'm not paying attention against elites with certain affixes. I also see you are using a spear as an offhand. I'd definitely keep the Echoing Fury as a main hand, but I try for a sword or axe as my offhand. Faster weapons help with LoH.
I've never been able to make the move from Mantra of Evasion to Conviction. I've tried it different times but I just feel like I take a lot more damage without it. I use MoE with the Backlash rune. I like the added AoE for clearing trash clearly. Don't forget to rebuff it when other defensive abilities are on CD the extra dodge has saved me more than a few times.