Well, 3 not 4 since no uber Diablo in non-RoS games but I get your point;)
This is my actual situation, I didn't just make it up for a point, but there is a point to be made. That is, for a very low player like me who has no real hope of completing higher (or even lower) torment ubers, and who does not have RoS nor plans to buy it, would I still be taken advantage of by these carriers? Of course, they have a chance for their precious amulet organs to drop, but if I'm making the game would the ubers be L60? In that case do they still drop L70 mats for L70 players? I've played campaign with L70 players (remember, I have no bounties or rifts, etc.) and it seems like monsters were in the low 60s. Not sure how ubers work haha >_<
The point that this service is heavily biased in favor of the providers of the service should be clear
Several people have answered my question, which I appreciate. I just want to be certain that I should *not* craft a L60 Hellfire Ring because it is terrible, and instead I should hold onto the mats in case I ever buy the expansion. Right? (Also keep in mind that RoRG, Unity, etc. etc. are L70 rings and not relevant for me). TYVM!
That is, for a very low player like me who has no real hope of completing higher (or even lower) torment ubers, and who does not have RoS nor plans to buy it, would I still be taken advantage of by these carriers? Of course, they have a chance for their precious amulet organs to drop, but if I'm making the game would the ubers be L60?
The amulet is a level 70, Reaper of Souls item. You cannot get this by doing level 60, non-RoS ubers. So the answer is: no. This thread is about doing level 70 ubers, the keys you gather are for level 60 ubers only (and the level 60 version of the Hellfire Ring). Entirely different problem and different topic. If you make the game and use your Infernal Machines it will be for level 60 ubers and level 60 organs; everyone else will also get level 60 organs.
I've played campaign with L70 players (remember, I have no bounties or rifts, etc.) and it seems like monsters were in the low 60s.
Mobs are always on the level of the person who opened the game. If you open the game, all mobs will be exactly level 60. If a level 70 character opens the game, all mobs are level 70. Can you join a level 70 game? That sounds strange, but I don't know anyone who doesn't have RoS, so can't verify this. Well, it won't benefit you at all anyways, so no point in doing so.
Several people have answered my question, which I appreciate. I just want to be certain that I should *not* craft a L60 Hellfire Ring because it is terrible, and instead I should hold onto the mats in case I ever buy the expansion. Right? (Also keep in mind that RoRG, Unity, etc. etc. are L70 rings and not relevant for me). TYVM!
Level 60 materials and level 70 materials are compeletly separate. Craft the rings, it's the only thing you can do with those mats. Since you don't have RoS, a well-rolled level 60 Hellfire Ring can indeed be quite useful. Not so much if you have perfect rare trifecta rings with and are playing on Torment 6 though...
That being said, this is all very much off-topic. Feel free to make a new topic about level 60 ubers.
Pure uber carries are inefficient in RoS. Any player askingfor a carry and providing all the keys is doing a disservice to their hardwork of getting the keys. Let me illustrate (everything isusing averages --RNG is RNG)
Drop Rates:
T1 drop rate = 25% keywarden and uber boss drops
T6 drop rate = 50% keywarden and uber boss drops
Number of Keywarden kills to get 1 key/portal open
T1 = 16 keywarden kills (16 * 25% = 4 component drops needed)
T6 = 8 keywarden kills (8 *50% = 4 component drops needed)
If a T1 wanted to get a Hellfire Amulet with 3 other T1 players that also had their own keys, he would (on average) needed 4 complete rounds of all portals being opened. that means he would have to provide 4 keys, which averages to about 64 keywarden killson T1. The other T1 members would put in an equal amount of portal openings.
If a T1 wanted to get T6 carried, and thus had to provide all of the keys, he would need to open up only 2 rounds --but provide all 8 keys. He would get the keys on T1, so would require (on average) 128 keywarden kills. In other words, he could have gotten 2 Hellfire Amulets if he did it as it was intended and did it with others of his level who also chipped in.
In sum, T6 carrying a T1 is half as efficient as doing if the T1 did it with other T1 players who all contributed their own keys equally.
If a service was to be provided, it would have to be of beneficial to both parties. Here is how it would:
The T1 player opens up 3 portals. The three T6 carriers open up the other 5 portals. Under this scenario, the T1 only requires 3 keys to get a HF on amulet (not 4, as if he were doing it with other T1 players) and the three T6 players would only require 1.67 keys each to get a HellFire amulet (not 2). With no fractions involved, 2 of the T6 would contribute the regular amount of keys (no gain or loss) while one of the T6 players only contributes 1 key to get the amulet (a gain).
Put another way:
Player 1 (T1 able) slight advantage...3 keys required rather than 4
Player 2 (T6 able) advantage...1 key needed rather than 2
Player 3 (T6 able) neither advantage or disadvantage...2 keys required
Player 4 (T6 able) neither advantage or disadvantage...2 keys required
Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
why must you ice skate up hill, leave it alone, if you don't want to participate then don't, but don't poison other ppl minds with you insecurities and conspiracies. If you want help we are here if you don't, good for you.
4 players getting 80 keys isn't longer than one getting 20. Try again. Your offer is a scam and violates the TOS.
Please direct me where you found such information.
Please don't make up sections of Blizzard's ToS, kthx.
Here Please stop defending your con and baiting unknowing people.
You can google Blizzard's TOS all you want, that doesn't mean you can add things to it like our community being a scam. I wasn't asking you to google anything for me, I was asking you to show me where this made up section of the TOS is ^^ derp
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This is my actual situation, I didn't just make it up for a point, but there is a point to be made. That is, for a very low player like me who has no real hope of completing higher (or even lower) torment ubers, and who does not have RoS nor plans to buy it, would I still be taken advantage of by these carriers? Of course, they have a chance for their precious amulet organs to drop, but if I'm making the game would the ubers be L60? In that case do they still drop L70 mats for L70 players? I've played campaign with L70 players (remember, I have no bounties or rifts, etc.) and it seems like monsters were in the low 60s. Not sure how ubers work haha >_<
Several people have answered my question, which I appreciate. I just want to be certain that I should *not* craft a L60 Hellfire Ring because it is terrible, and instead I should hold onto the mats in case I ever buy the expansion. Right? (Also keep in mind that RoRG, Unity, etc. etc. are L70 rings and not relevant for me). TYVM!
Mobs are always on the level of the person who opened the game. If you open the game, all mobs will be exactly level 60. If a level 70 character opens the game, all mobs are level 70. Can you join a level 70 game? That sounds strange, but I don't know anyone who doesn't have RoS, so can't verify this. Well, it won't benefit you at all anyways, so no point in doing so.
Level 60 materials and level 70 materials are compeletly separate. Craft the rings, it's the only thing you can do with those mats. Since you don't have RoS, a well-rolled level 60 Hellfire Ring can indeed be quite useful. Not so much if you have perfect rare trifecta rings with and are playing on Torment 6 though...
That being said, this is all very much off-topic. Feel free to make a new topic about level 60 ubers.
Please don't make up sections of Blizzard's ToS, kthx.
Drop Rates:
T1 drop rate = 25% keywarden and uber boss drops
T6 drop rate = 50% keywarden and uber boss drops
Number of Keywarden kills to get 1 key/portal open
T1 = 16 keywarden kills (16 * 25% = 4 component drops needed)
T6 = 8 keywarden kills (8 *50% = 4 component drops needed)
If a T1 wanted to get a Hellfire Amulet with 3 other T1 players that also had their own keys, he would (on average) needed 4 complete rounds of all portals being opened. that means he would have to provide 4 keys, which averages to about 64 keywarden killson T1. The other T1 members would put in an equal amount of portal openings.
If a T1 wanted to get T6 carried, and thus had to provide all of the keys, he would need to open up only 2 rounds --but provide all 8 keys. He would get the keys on T1, so would require (on average) 128 keywarden kills. In other words, he could have gotten 2 Hellfire Amulets if he did it as it was intended and did it with others of his level who also chipped in.
In sum, T6 carrying a T1 is half as efficient as doing if the T1 did it with other T1 players who all contributed their own keys equally.
If a service was to be provided, it would have to be of beneficial to both parties. Here is how it would:
The T1 player opens up 3 portals. The three T6 carriers open up the other 5 portals. Under this scenario, the T1 only requires 3 keys to get a HF on amulet (not 4, as if he were doing it with other T1 players) and the three T6 players would only require 1.67 keys each to get a HellFire amulet (not 2). With no fractions involved, 2 of the T6 would contribute the regular amount of keys (no gain or loss) while one of the T6 players only contributes 1 key to get the amulet (a gain).
Put another way:
Player 1 (T1 able) slight advantage...3 keys required rather than 4
Player 2 (T6 able) advantage...1 key needed rather than 2
Player 3 (T6 able) neither advantage or disadvantage...2 keys required
Player 4 (T6 able) neither advantage or disadvantage...2 keys required
Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
All - Thanks for the helpful discussions.
Best,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.