I really miss when there were several topics discussing politics and issues, mind you with civility and respect. What I want to talk about first is the Israel/Middle East thing, and everything that relates to the matter. You can go as far as discuss the Mosque/Center that is to be built in the vicinity of the fallen twin towers. A certain topic on another website drove me into wanting to post this thread here. Basically, it was a website full of Anti-Islam pro-Israel/America posters that posted illogical things and spewed hate. Hopefully, we can discuss matter in a civil fashion. I will kick start things with my own point of view on certain things.
I'll begin with the whole Israel/Lebanon/Palestine/Syria thing. As I understand, Palestine was Jewish land some 3000 years ago, or something? Then the Palestinians took over, and now Israel wants it back. I'm really confused here. Why can't they work something out? Hamas wants Israel completely out of Palestine, but logically and reasonably speaking, that's pretty much near-impossible now. I can understand Hamas' attacks on Israel, though. Just look at how much land Israel took over since the Camp David agreement (**). If I were to suggest a vote, I'd give Palestine enough land, and its own government, with an Israeli state aside, in another part of Palestine. You simply can't "evict" all the Israelis from Palestine just like that, it's really too complicated, and I fear that I don't have the FULL solution to the problem, due to the level of complexity involved in the matter. I side with Palestine in this thing simply because of Israel's disregard to national laws regarding weapons, and their continued use of prohibited, and nationally banned ones. Some things they pull off are also very wrong. Attacking the flotilla being the latest. Attacking that family on the beach and killing them all being another. The list goes on and on. I know Hamas attacks Israel, but with what? Their weapons are pretty much fire crackers.
(**)
Anyway, I'd rather distance myself from the Palestine/Israel issue since there are several things I don't really know about the issue, andwould rather hold back so as not to say something completely wrong or anything.
Moving on to the Lebanon/Israel thing. Israel was holding part of our land due to the fact that they seem to like our water..a lot. Hezbollah formed with weapons and tactics superior to those of the Lebanese Army, and successfully drove Israel out of the most part of South Lebanon. Now Israel still occupies a part of the Shebaa farms, and holds several hundred, if not thousands, of Lebanese people in its dungeons. The 2006 summer war was pretty much to free the remaining part of our land, and to free our prisoners, yet everyone in the entire world stood against Hezbollah as if they were some evil entity. I don't fully agree on everything Hezbollah stands for, or wants to do, but when it comes to Lebanon's interests, I find myself siding with them. Israel has done so many atrocious things over the years, to Lebanon, it's ridiculous. They constantly fly over our airspace without permission. They constantly step over the border without permission. They have committed several massacres, attacked UN stations where Lebanese people hid during war, and used internationally banned weapons against Lebanon. I mean, I don't understand how people viewing all this on the television can think that they're getting the full picture, when really, you only do when you're in the midst of things. I was in the midst of things. I had no internet, and I couldn't sleep since every 10 minutes a shell would explode about 10 Km away from our house. We had constant power outages, and the people who escaped from the places being bombed (areas with high Shia Muslims concentrations) made our neighborhood smell and look like shit, since they were now living in public schools. I don't see why Israel can't just get out of Shebaa farms, hand over all our prisoners, and then see how it goes from there. I doubt that will happen anytime soon, but I am absolutely, positively, 100% certain that war will break out in the next 5 years. When it does, I think it's gonna be a shit storm, if not a third world war.
Now, "The Ground Zero Mosque". I'll quote cracked.com on this since their words pretty much sum up what I think.
It’s Not at Ground Zero
The proposed structure is not on the hallowed ground of the former World Trade Center. It’s at an abandoned and private building blocks away that used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. That means that if every one of the “g’s” that Sarah Palin drops when she’s talkin’ folksy were 10 by10 feet large, you could still stack over 120 of them from Ground Zero to this community center. Easy. That sort of makes all the difference, doesn’t it? I know, when I first heard they were building a mosque at Ground Zero, I literally said, “What the fuck.” Like out loud and everything. I didn’t even pull a “WTF” despite years of writing for the Internet. That’s because for the last nine years, we New Yorkers have listened to countless proposals and plans and ideas of how to best rebuild the area while honoring the memories of those who died. And suddenly it seemed we were being told, “Yep, it’s all decided. Mosque. We want a mosque here. Just feels right.” So yeah, of course, no one was on board. That just made no sense. What happened to that proposed waterfall and wall of names? Nothing happened. Because no one was ever building a mosque on that site. It’s just a lie that was told to you by people who wanted you to be afraid, upset, and hurt. People who wanted to manipulate your tender emotions to inspire contempt for the government. It’s about as intellectually dishonest as manipulating debate footage to make it appear that “Drill, baby, drill” is Sarah Palin’s stance on partial birth abortions. It's just wrong. And to those who say that any location in lower Manhattan is too close for a Muslim structure, let me remind you that right now, in the shadow of what would be the former World Trade Center, there’s a Halal Meat Hot Truck with a multi-denominational line that wraps around my building every day at lunch time. And I’m positive that’s owned by a Muslim. And I’ve even suffered at his hands. (Spoiler alert: avoid the goat rhoti). Should he move a few more blocks away too? Of course, not. That would just be silly, right? Is it different? Why? Because mosques are religious and the 911 terrorists perverted Islam into something violent and hateful? Guess what? Those knights did the same thing to Christianity for the 300 years of the Crusades, and no one’s saying that churches shouldn’t be built anywhere in … Europe.
It's not strictly a mosque
A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t. But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way "mosque" does. I mean, you hear "mosque" you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear "mosque" you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.
You Can’t Simultaneously Acknowledge A Right And Insist That Your Government Suppress It
But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
“We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?”
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
While respecting that Muslims have a First Amendment right to religious freedom, Reid "thinks this mosque should be built some place else," his spokesman Jim Manley said Monday.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you? And what are we saying to Muslims? That if they were good Americans they would willingly give up their rights? I can’t think of anything less American than that? This is America. We do what we want. And all you have to do to have that right is be a citizen here. And if you’re a traitor, well then we will prosecute you for treason and penalize you for taking up arms against the greatest country in the world, but we will NOT start curtailing your freedoms based on mere speculation fueled by lies about what you’re building and where you’re building it. In the days following 911 it was very popular to say that we couldn’t do anything differently in America or “the terrorists would win.” We can’t stop driving gas guzzling cars. We can’t stop supporting dictators in other parts of the world for financial or political gain. We can’t vote for a Democrat. Most of that was rhetoric. Some of it was probably true. But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.
Now, I will conclude with making some things clear about Muslims, since a lot of people don't get the whole story broadcast to them. I know most of the users here are mature enough to already know what I'm gonna say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. People like Bin Laden, people who support his ideology and doctrines, those masked men who decapitate innocent people and say "Allahu Akbar", those people who blow themselves up to kill innocent civilians. Those are the farthest thing from Islam. They even attacked North Lebanon a couple of years ago, and the majority of Lebanon's population are Muslims. Those people are merely pawns. I won't go as far as say that they're part of a propaganda to make everyone hate Muslims, but I've read several things, and watched several videos that support that argument. Anyway, not to digress. The regime in Iran and Saudi Arabia are utter bullshit, basically everyone outside of those countries hates their regime. I'd go as far as saying that 95% of the people in Iran and Saudi Arabia hate the regime. I know for certain that a LOT of Saudi Arabians are the farthest thing from being "true believers" since tons of them are gay, drink alcohol, and do lots of "ungodly" things. They do them in front of me in Lebanon. In front of my brother in Saudi Arabia itself. The Quran also doesn't preach hate, violence, and all those things. I'm pretty sure you can find violence and hate in the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, and every other holy book if you're hellbent on twisting every word, and misinterpreting every single thing to suit your mind. There are things in the Bible that call for the killing of homosexuals, to kill a girl if she isn't a virgin when she is about to have marital sex for the first time..but you don't see me saying "Christianity preaches violence, and hate. The Bible preaches violence, and hate". Absolutely not. What I think is that in our current world, you can't really abide by all the teachings of the holy books, it's practically impossible. I really laughed when I heard about that dumbass priest who is organizing a Burn The Quran Day to be set on 9/11. What does he even know about the Quran? What does he even know about Islam? He's an ignorant person that I can't but feel sorry for him. Don't judge the majority according to the actions of a couple thousand morons.
If you think Islam is any more violent than any other religion, congratulations you're a bigot.
Freedom of Religion isn't just for you or the people you like, it's for everyone. You may not think it's okay, but the minute you want actually prohibit them, you're robbing them of Constitutionally-protected freedoms for no reason other than your own mentally-handicapped intolerance and ignorance.
That's all I've got to say about that. Chances are if you can read this and are literate, you're not who I'm angry with. :thumbsup:
The whole thing about the mosque is that stupid, brainwashed, ignorant assholes can't tell the difference between a Muslim and an Islamic terrorist.
The whole thing is just disgusting. I'm all for the Islamic community center being built there, and to much people's fervor, it's probably going to be built there anyway.
1. The president can't do anything about it.
2. The local government can't do anything about it either. The building is being bought, they can't say that they can't buy the building. The whole thing is legally sound, they couldn't do a damn thing if they wanted to.
American politics is rotten to the core, I've just about had it. I've had it with dumbasses pulling on the heartstrings of the American people. I had a lot of hope for the future until recently. Now that I see how angry the American Right-wing is and how they're basically brainwashing people who are uncertain about the future to push their agenda, I really just want to give up hope right now. This slew of poor economic news is only aiding the right wing, it's fucking terrifying.
I wish people would go fucking read a book, read up on something before voting with their emotions. Sure, it feels right in your eyes, but is it fundamentally right? Is it fundamentally sound? Is it fair? Can it fail? Can it be abused? Motherfucker, read up on the issue, research the possibilities, and come back to me when you have a sound opinion. Don't parrot somebody's opinion just because they looked smart or they have a large background. Fucking make your own opinions, stop grabbing at straws, and look at the bigger picture.
Fuck American politics, fuck the American dumbass, and fuck anyone who says one thing and does another. This whole mosque thing is a perfect, abso-fucking-lutely perfect example of Right-wing hypocrisy.
/rant over
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
If you think Islam is any more violent than any other religion, congratulations you're a bigot.
Freedom of Religion isn't just for you or the people you like, it's for everyone. You may not think it's okay, but the minute you want actually prohibit them, you're robbing them of Constitutionally-protected freedoms for no reason other than your own mentally-handicapped intolerance and ignorance.
That's all I've got to say about that. Chances are if you can read this and are literate, you're not who I'm angry with. :thumbsup:
I'm a Muslim..sooooo..lol.
Azriel, lulz. I was on this forum discussing this issue. It was..different. They were pretty much telling me that I'm not a moderate Muslim, and that there is no such thing, because I said I was so pissed off at Israel at one point, that I wished it were wiped off the map. They continued to say that even when I said that that was an over exaggeration and I'm against genocide even if it's against the people who killed my own countrymen. Humans are humans, and should be treated as such in 99.99% of the cases. I mean, how ignorant can they be, when I know thousands of CHRISTIANS in Lebanon who absolutely hate Israel and wish it to be gone and done with absolutely. Does that mean that ALL Christians are blood hungry savages? No..I don't see how they can only apply that image to Muslims, Islam as a religion, and the Quran as a holy book. It's pretty nonsensical, and it really pisses me off that some people just settle for what they see on CNN and abc, and do not bother to even check out the OTHER point of view, and the OTHER side of the story. It's a ridiculous world, where anyone can push their agenda, after baiting so many people into believing a certain thing that is completely erroneous. You wouldn't believe how many people think that ALL Muslims are terrorists. That Islam as a religion preaches terror through its holy book. Are there some verses in the Quran that urge a person to kill the unbelievers? Yes. Does it literally mean go kill every non-Muslim and God will put you in heaven and give you 72 virgins? Absolutely not. Interpreting holy books takes scholars..religious scientists. You can't just read a line, and presume that it means X and absolutely X and in no way can mean Y. SOOOOO many things in the Quran hold a different meaning than the one you might understand upon first reading a verse. To make the picture clearer..the Quran is written in SUCH complex Arabic, that I don't understand like..50% of the words, and I can't interpret 95% of the verses to convey what they actually mean, and what they actually tell people to do, or not to do. Purely for the sake of argument, I will post things that are found in the Bible, merely to assert that if there are suspect things in a religion's Holy Book, it doesn't mean that said holybook is barbaric, or that followers of said book are savage barbarians that will carry out what the Book says to the word, and take everything completely out of context and wage holy war upon holy war. Some ignorant Christians talk about how Islam degrades women, is an outdated religion, with its holy book preaching vengeance, degrading women, violence, and heinous acts. Here are the excerpts from the Bible. Tell me if it's any different. Don't (seriously, DON'T) think that I'm saying that the Bible is terrible or anything, I'm just saying that ALL the Holy Books preach things that we might think are terrible upon first glance, but can, in some cases, mean different things. And just because a holy book contains something, that is no longer sanctioned by social doctrines and habits, it means that it's a terrible entity spawned from a terrible religion. I have the utmost respect for Christians and Christianity, I just hope the ignorant ones can learn to see things I see them, and how other humans with an actual brain see them.
Kill Your Unruly Sons
"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Cursing Parents
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Death to Sabbath Breakers
On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death. You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Followers of Other Religions
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Enemies
But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. [spoken by Jesus as a parable] (Luke 19:27 NRS)
And...how should God fearing men, treat their women?
Women Are Subordinate to Men
Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty. (1 Timothy 2:11-15 NLT)
Shut Up Women!
As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:33-35 NAB)
Don't Grab Testicles
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
Wives are Subordinate to Husbands
You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Men are in Charge
Give no woman power over you to trample upon your dignity. (Sirach 9:2 NAB)
Wives are Subordinate
Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18 NAB)
Don't Grab Testicles
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
Sounds like a threesome.
So the two guys can grab each others' testicles and God will approve? I knew it- religion actually supports homosexuality.
Seriously, if every rule in Holy books was strictly observed, only atheists would be left alive.
Back on topic-
I don't really have anything to say over the Israel-palestine issue except they should really ideally both cease to exist and be replaced by a single state though I guess that's pretty much impossible unless we are invaded by aliens.
About Islam and Muslims-
Just another religion and its followers. A pity that the retards(terrorists and what not) are getting all the attention for the moment. These dumbasses have set Muslims way back in their efforts to creating a more accurate image of what their religion is and which to me would be more akin to that of modern Christianity.
The problem you see, is when you get cases of people being stoned to death based on 'religious' laws and how women should wear certain clothing or how a guy is allowed to marry several women...
These showcase Islam as a very primitive religion in many eyes.
I know not all(by a long way) Muslims are like that, but the reality of what's happening in countries like Iran paints a somber picture of the whole deal.
If I were to suggest a vote, I'd give Palestine enough land, and its own government, with an Israeli state aside, in another part of Palestine. You simply can't "evict" all the Israelis from Palestine just like that, it's really too complicated, and I fear that I don't have the FULL solution to the problem, due to the level of complexity involved in the matter.
This whole conflict just leaves me with a massive feeling of uncertainty. It's a good thing I'm not in change of anything related to it, because I'd have no idea what to do or what to strive for.
The whole idea of the Jews having been there thousands of years ago is just bullshit. If that were to be eployed, why not give back America to the native Americans? You can't have contingencies stretching over thousands of years determine who has a right to what land, it's neither practical, workable or even right.
But on the other hand, you can't just throw them out either. I mean they live there, they work there, go to school there etc. It's not like it's a foreign army faring a guerrilla war or something, it's a functioning country. A country essentially in war and invading other lands, but still a country.
Obviously some sort of agreement has to be reached, but how... I don't know how, but it must be possible to reach it. Hell, if Swedes and Danes could smash each others heads for a thousand year and then just stop 200 years ago, and follow it with a close relationship, it should be possible. Then again, perhaps this conflict is even worse. As much as Scandinavians fought each other, we still had pretty similar cultures and values.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right.
No..I don't see how they can only apply that image to Muslims, Islam as a religion, and the Quran as a holy book. It's pretty nonsensical, and it really pisses me off that some people just settle for what they see on CNN and abc, and do not bother to even check out the OTHER point of view, and the OTHER side of the story.
It's very interesting how different the media image can be in different countries. In Sweden, most people are pro-palestine, and if you're not, then you're just a usa-loving idiot. That's an exaggeration of course, but you get the point.
Quote from "Pryda" »
Yeah... religion.. its the shit. And by that I mean that its all bull-shit. I mean, seriously, people nowadays believe in something that not-very-advanced/smart people over 2000 years ago invented. But its set so deep into their minds generation after generation that they just believe in this fairy tale.
Religion is hardly at the center of this conflict. Oh sure it's used to brainwash suicide bombers and the like, but if we removed Judaism and Islam from the conflict but kept all other factors, we'd still have a nation fighting against it's neighbors and occupying land. Wars and conflicts should be blamed on humans.
Israel fights for its survival. Religion could be used as a tool by them, but it's not the reason. The reason is to preserve their land and not die.
Simiarly, Palestine does what pretty much every other occupied land has ever done. They fight back with sneaky and guerilla tactics. Because they want to preserve their land.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Basically, you can ask any single Lebanese citizen, Christian, Muslim Durzi, or otherwise, and they'd all tell you that they hate Israel and wish to see every single Zionist dead. I don't really care since I'm just a selfish fuck. Personally speaking, if any of my family members got killed by Israel, I'd just buy a sniper rifle, make a post on some hill, and start shooting Israeli soldiers, trying to hit them in the head so I can think to myself "BOOOOOM..HEADSHOT..LULZ". I can't imagine what the families of the fallen feel. I'd honestly just fucking snap if any close family member got killed. Hell, I'd fucking break anyone's face if they even talked to my dad in a manner that I disliked. Lol@my brother kicking the living shit out of this guy who talked back to my mom (who was trying to help him, btw) and all my uncles followed and broke him down (the building I live in has 3 of my uncles..2 of which are fucking monsters). Not to digress, I really just wish that Israel gets the fuck out of our land so we can be over with this bickering. I know Hezbollah won't rest until the Israeli government has fallen, but I don't think that far ahead. It's scary how much say Hezbollah has in Lebanon, with millions of supporters in Lebanon and other countries. Their capabilities are also starting to scare me. They didn't have that much capabilities and still managed to keep Israel from accomplishing its goals in 2006 and basically won the war. I know Israel can pretty much run Lebanon down and kill everything in site..but let's thank God that the world doesn't work that way.
Pryda, you can't really say that religion was basically devised as a tool to control the masses or whatever. That's like saying guns are created to kill innocent people just because tons of murderers use it for that purpose.
Of course it does. My family almost broke apart because some of my uncles didn't approve of the guy my cousin wanted to marry because he's a Shia Muslim and not a Sunni one. Epic lulz.
Basically, you can ask any single Lebanese citizen, Christian, Muslim Durzi, or otherwise, and they'd all tell you that they hate Israel and wish to see every single Zionist dead.
Yeah that's a problem.
Forgive the bad analogy, but this is like two gamblers playing. Both have both won some and lost some up until this point, but both players still believe that they can win everything if they just keep on playing. Which of course isn't possible.
I really just wish that Israel gets the fuck out of our land so we can be over with this bickering. I know Hezbollah won't rest until the Israeli government has fallen, but I don't think that far ahead.
I wouldn't be so sure. What makes you think Isreal is going down anytime soon?
Correct me if Im wrong but as far as I know, and I really dont know very much about this issue, fighting over Jerusalem is one of the core drivers of this conflict. And thats got everything to do with religion.
True. Still, that's not the heart of the conflict. It's a war about land, and who should have it. If neither side had believed in God this still would have gone on.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I'll have to type out something longer on this tonight after work, but for now I think everyone will enjoy this clip from Jon Stewart and the Daily Show (watch the first segment). Covering the ground zero hyperbole topic, he nailed FOX on the head and there's no denying this one.
Well, Phrozen, a lot of nations are growing tired of Israel. What will happen, I don't know. I can't wait to see, though. It amuses me to watch a war on TV which I'm actually living in real life. Ok, not really, since they might bomb Beirut, and the living conditions (no internet, constant power outages, water shortage) become fucking shit.
Hezbollah is in deep shit now. As much as I hate their politics and some of their goals, I simply can't imagine a Lebanon without their border protection, and significant awe they impose on Israel. Like it or not, they've broken Israel on several occasions, and their popularity grows, as does their arsenal. The tribunal is gonna hand in their report on the Rafic Hariri assassination in Q4 2010, and they're gonna implicate Hezbollah (Syria, too, I THINK) and that's gonna be a MAJOR fucking blow to them. I don't, and I won't trust any results the tribunal presents, because if America/Israel/the West had anything to do with the assassination, they're not gonna say it, and the West has SUCH interest if Hezbollah gets panned for the assassination.
I hate to break it to you, but extremist Christians do that as well. Arranged marriages, beatings, forcing them to do this and that. That's not a trademark of Islam. It's a trademark of humans. Christians do it, Jews do it, basically everyone does it. There are millions of Muslims who don't. I'd say no one in Lebanon does it. Two of my uncles have Christian wives. Three have married Christian women who then converted to Islam on their own free will. I'd say you can't find a more religious Muslim woman than my mom. She's read the Quran over 60 times, she prays, does everything she can. She doesn't force neither me or my brother to do anything. If I blaspheme in front of her, she'd just go "tsk tsk tsk..stop that" and do nothing more. If my parents were to follow every single Muslim teaching to the letter, I'd be fucking dead by now. Literally. Just because some are retarded, doesn't mean all are retarded. Stop thinking and saying that beatings, forcing women to do stuff are Muslim traditions, and only Muslim traditions. How many men beat on their wives on America? No one blames Christianity for that. How man extremist Christians live in America alone? Millions. Look at them wanting to burn the Quran. Look at the extremists in the Southern states. Did you look? If you did, then you should see my point. Immigrants are almost always annoying. Look at the image of the Hispanics in America. Can you blame that negative image on the fact that almost all of them are Christian? No, you can't. Plenty of more examples, but I will stop here.
I will begin my opinion by first saying I believe God is amorphic, that all of mans endeavors to describe what God is severely deficient guess work. I believe God is self revealing in all the creation around us, communicating using metaphor example of how things are. I believe not one facet of humanity adequately describes God’s context, purpose, or plan. That said I believe man and its many cultures however have spent a great deal of time trying to find ways to claim advantage over another by trying to prove it has God’s advantage. More than that; it is a means for people to attempt to control the one moment in life they have no control over, death, so they put their faith in words of men who claim to have transcribed the inspired words of God. I have more faith than that, I have faith I’ll leave this world as humbly as I entered it and what should unfold afterwards is as it should be.
For any who wonder why the US makes foreign policy decisions that it does and scratch your head at the lack of logic behind it consider the following. I've witnessed over the years a number of things (if you want to know I can elaborate in different post) that lead me to believe many in our government's top levels set international policy based on Christian beliefs. In particular as they pertain to biblical end time prophesies. Publicly you will never hear these types of things on the TV but on Sunday's many of our leaders are getting an earful and wholeheartedly believe what comes from the pulpit. If you hear a politician profess their faith in Jesus Christ as their savior and lord, then you can bet they are on board with the below.
Some of you may think all our foreign policy is about money, oil, or defense. While that is true on a number of levels, when it comes to the Mideast though I think the above plays a larger role. Israel for example, many devoted Christian's believe to not support Israel spells the US losing blessing in God's eyes. Christians have long believed that the final war will be under the guise of nations fighting against Israel for political reasons but secretly they are under Satan's control and are fighting against God. Given that, is it really any surprise we have people in government demonizing all sects of of Islam? Is it any surprise that right wing pundits want to paint all the conflict in the Mideast as an Islamic holy war. Is it any surprise they have conveniently forgotten the US's duplicitous role in the Mideast or the fact that the terrorists were mad at our foreign policy? bin Laden point blank said this was what set him off. And so the rolling snow ball grows. There are currently over 150 sects of Islam (or so I have read), twice as many as predicted by Muhammad who said his followers would become divided into seventy-three sects, every one of whom would go to hell, except one sect, the religion professed by himself and his companions.
Christianity lays no less of a bar, there are thousands of divisions in the faith now. Those protestants protested and kept on dividing and creating the next one true path to Christ. With wonderful guilt ridden passages about camels passing through the eye of a needle with greater ease than man getting to heaven. 99.9% of these divisions are no less doomed. And people find hope in this stuff? What concerns me about this is there are politicians that are actively trying to bring about biblical prophesy and it's coming at great cost to many innocent people who have no say, who are just along for the ride like it or not. That in and of itself is a heinous crime worthy of a howling mob with pitchforks and torches in hand.
"There are currently over 150 sects of Islam (or so I have read), twice as many as predicted by Muhammad who said his followers would become divided into seventy-three sects, every one of whom would go to hell, except one sect, the religion professed by himself and his companions."
I'll begin with the whole Israel/Lebanon/Palestine/Syria thing. As I understand, Palestine was Jewish land some 3000 years ago, or something? Then the Palestinians took over, and now Israel wants it back. I'm really confused here. Why can't they work something out? Hamas wants Israel completely out of Palestine, but logically and reasonably speaking, that's pretty much near-impossible now. I can understand Hamas' attacks on Israel, though. Just look at how much land Israel took over since the Camp David agreement (**). If I were to suggest a vote, I'd give Palestine enough land, and its own government, with an Israeli state aside, in another part of Palestine. You simply can't "evict" all the Israelis from Palestine just like that, it's really too complicated, and I fear that I don't have the FULL solution to the problem, due to the level of complexity involved in the matter. I side with Palestine in this thing simply because of Israel's disregard to national laws regarding weapons, and their continued use of prohibited, and nationally banned ones. Some things they pull off are also very wrong. Attacking the flotilla being the latest. Attacking that family on the beach and killing them all being another. The list goes on and on. I know Hamas attacks Israel, but with what? Their weapons are pretty much fire crackers.
(**)
Anyway, I'd rather distance myself from the Palestine/Israel issue since there are several things I don't really know about the issue, andwould rather hold back so as not to say something completely wrong or anything.
Moving on to the Lebanon/Israel thing. Israel was holding part of our land due to the fact that they seem to like our water..a lot. Hezbollah formed with weapons and tactics superior to those of the Lebanese Army, and successfully drove Israel out of the most part of South Lebanon. Now Israel still occupies a part of the Shebaa farms, and holds several hundred, if not thousands, of Lebanese people in its dungeons. The 2006 summer war was pretty much to free the remaining part of our land, and to free our prisoners, yet everyone in the entire world stood against Hezbollah as if they were some evil entity. I don't fully agree on everything Hezbollah stands for, or wants to do, but when it comes to Lebanon's interests, I find myself siding with them. Israel has done so many atrocious things over the years, to Lebanon, it's ridiculous. They constantly fly over our airspace without permission. They constantly step over the border without permission. They have committed several massacres, attacked UN stations where Lebanese people hid during war, and used internationally banned weapons against Lebanon. I mean, I don't understand how people viewing all this on the television can think that they're getting the full picture, when really, you only do when you're in the midst of things. I was in the midst of things. I had no internet, and I couldn't sleep since every 10 minutes a shell would explode about 10 Km away from our house. We had constant power outages, and the people who escaped from the places being bombed (areas with high Shia Muslims concentrations) made our neighborhood smell and look like shit, since they were now living in public schools. I don't see why Israel can't just get out of Shebaa farms, hand over all our prisoners, and then see how it goes from there. I doubt that will happen anytime soon, but I am absolutely, positively, 100% certain that war will break out in the next 5 years. When it does, I think it's gonna be a shit storm, if not a third world war.
Now, "The Ground Zero Mosque". I'll quote cracked.com on this since their words pretty much sum up what I think.
It’s Not at Ground Zero
The proposed structure is not on the hallowed ground of the former World Trade Center. It’s at an abandoned and private building blocks away that used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. That means that if every one of the “g’s” that Sarah Palin drops when she’s talkin’ folksy were 10 by10 feet large, you could still stack over 120 of them from Ground Zero to this community center. Easy. That sort of makes all the difference, doesn’t it? I know, when I first heard they were building a mosque at Ground Zero, I literally said, “What the fuck.” Like out loud and everything. I didn’t even pull a “WTF” despite years of writing for the Internet. That’s because for the last nine years, we New Yorkers have listened to countless proposals and plans and ideas of how to best rebuild the area while honoring the memories of those who died. And suddenly it seemed we were being told, “Yep, it’s all decided. Mosque. We want a mosque here. Just feels right.” So yeah, of course, no one was on board. That just made no sense. What happened to that proposed waterfall and wall of names? Nothing happened. Because no one was ever building a mosque on that site. It’s just a lie that was told to you by people who wanted you to be afraid, upset, and hurt. People who wanted to manipulate your tender emotions to inspire contempt for the government. It’s about as intellectually dishonest as manipulating debate footage to make it appear that “Drill, baby, drill” is Sarah Palin’s stance on partial birth abortions. It's just wrong. And to those who say that any location in lower Manhattan is too close for a Muslim structure, let me remind you that right now, in the shadow of what would be the former World Trade Center, there’s a Halal Meat Hot Truck with a multi-denominational line that wraps around my building every day at lunch time. And I’m positive that’s owned by a Muslim. And I’ve even suffered at his hands. (Spoiler alert: avoid the goat rhoti). Should he move a few more blocks away too? Of course, not. That would just be silly, right? Is it different? Why? Because mosques are religious and the 911 terrorists perverted Islam into something violent and hateful? Guess what? Those knights did the same thing to Christianity for the 300 years of the Crusades, and no one’s saying that churches shouldn’t be built anywhere in … Europe.
It's not strictly a mosque
A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t. But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way "mosque" does. I mean, you hear "mosque" you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear "mosque" you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.
You Can’t Simultaneously Acknowledge A Right And Insist That Your Government Suppress It
But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
“We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?”
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
While respecting that Muslims have a First Amendment right to religious freedom, Reid "thinks this mosque should be built some place else," his spokesman Jim Manley said Monday.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you? And what are we saying to Muslims? That if they were good Americans they would willingly give up their rights? I can’t think of anything less American than that? This is America. We do what we want. And all you have to do to have that right is be a citizen here. And if you’re a traitor, well then we will prosecute you for treason and penalize you for taking up arms against the greatest country in the world, but we will NOT start curtailing your freedoms based on mere speculation fueled by lies about what you’re building and where you’re building it. In the days following 911 it was very popular to say that we couldn’t do anything differently in America or “the terrorists would win.” We can’t stop driving gas guzzling cars. We can’t stop supporting dictators in other parts of the world for financial or political gain. We can’t vote for a Democrat. Most of that was rhetoric. Some of it was probably true. But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.
Now, I will conclude with making some things clear about Muslims, since a lot of people don't get the whole story broadcast to them. I know most of the users here are mature enough to already know what I'm gonna say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. People like Bin Laden, people who support his ideology and doctrines, those masked men who decapitate innocent people and say "Allahu Akbar", those people who blow themselves up to kill innocent civilians. Those are the farthest thing from Islam. They even attacked North Lebanon a couple of years ago, and the majority of Lebanon's population are Muslims. Those people are merely pawns. I won't go as far as say that they're part of a propaganda to make everyone hate Muslims, but I've read several things, and watched several videos that support that argument. Anyway, not to digress. The regime in Iran and Saudi Arabia are utter bullshit, basically everyone outside of those countries hates their regime. I'd go as far as saying that 95% of the people in Iran and Saudi Arabia hate the regime. I know for certain that a LOT of Saudi Arabians are the farthest thing from being "true believers" since tons of them are gay, drink alcohol, and do lots of "ungodly" things. They do them in front of me in Lebanon. In front of my brother in Saudi Arabia itself. The Quran also doesn't preach hate, violence, and all those things. I'm pretty sure you can find violence and hate in the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, and every other holy book if you're hellbent on twisting every word, and misinterpreting every single thing to suit your mind. There are things in the Bible that call for the killing of homosexuals, to kill a girl if she isn't a virgin when she is about to have marital sex for the first time..but you don't see me saying "Christianity preaches violence, and hate. The Bible preaches violence, and hate". Absolutely not. What I think is that in our current world, you can't really abide by all the teachings of the holy books, it's practically impossible. I really laughed when I heard about that dumbass priest who is organizing a Burn The Quran Day to be set on 9/11. What does he even know about the Quran? What does he even know about Islam? He's an ignorant person that I can't but feel sorry for him. Don't judge the majority according to the actions of a couple thousand morons.
Well, that's a decent introduction, I'd say.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
If you think Islam is any more violent than any other religion, congratulations you're a bigot.
Freedom of Religion isn't just for you or the people you like, it's for everyone. You may not think it's okay, but the minute you want actually prohibit them, you're robbing them of Constitutionally-protected freedoms for no reason other than your own mentally-handicapped intolerance and ignorance.
That's all I've got to say about that. Chances are if you can read this and are literate, you're not who I'm angry with. :thumbsup:
The whole thing is just disgusting. I'm all for the Islamic community center being built there, and to much people's fervor, it's probably going to be built there anyway.
1. The president can't do anything about it.
2. The local government can't do anything about it either. The building is being bought, they can't say that they can't buy the building. The whole thing is legally sound, they couldn't do a damn thing if they wanted to.
American politics is rotten to the core, I've just about had it. I've had it with dumbasses pulling on the heartstrings of the American people. I had a lot of hope for the future until recently. Now that I see how angry the American Right-wing is and how they're basically brainwashing people who are uncertain about the future to push their agenda, I really just want to give up hope right now. This slew of poor economic news is only aiding the right wing, it's fucking terrifying.
I wish people would go fucking read a book, read up on something before voting with their emotions. Sure, it feels right in your eyes, but is it fundamentally right? Is it fundamentally sound? Is it fair? Can it fail? Can it be abused? Motherfucker, read up on the issue, research the possibilities, and come back to me when you have a sound opinion. Don't parrot somebody's opinion just because they looked smart or they have a large background. Fucking make your own opinions, stop grabbing at straws, and look at the bigger picture.
Fuck American politics, fuck the American dumbass, and fuck anyone who says one thing and does another. This whole mosque thing is a perfect, abso-fucking-lutely perfect example of Right-wing hypocrisy.
/rant over
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I'm a Muslim..sooooo..lol.
Azriel, lulz. I was on this forum discussing this issue. It was..different. They were pretty much telling me that I'm not a moderate Muslim, and that there is no such thing, because I said I was so pissed off at Israel at one point, that I wished it were wiped off the map. They continued to say that even when I said that that was an over exaggeration and I'm against genocide even if it's against the people who killed my own countrymen. Humans are humans, and should be treated as such in 99.99% of the cases. I mean, how ignorant can they be, when I know thousands of CHRISTIANS in Lebanon who absolutely hate Israel and wish it to be gone and done with absolutely. Does that mean that ALL Christians are blood hungry savages? No..I don't see how they can only apply that image to Muslims, Islam as a religion, and the Quran as a holy book. It's pretty nonsensical, and it really pisses me off that some people just settle for what they see on CNN and abc, and do not bother to even check out the OTHER point of view, and the OTHER side of the story. It's a ridiculous world, where anyone can push their agenda, after baiting so many people into believing a certain thing that is completely erroneous. You wouldn't believe how many people think that ALL Muslims are terrorists. That Islam as a religion preaches terror through its holy book. Are there some verses in the Quran that urge a person to kill the unbelievers? Yes. Does it literally mean go kill every non-Muslim and God will put you in heaven and give you 72 virgins? Absolutely not. Interpreting holy books takes scholars..religious scientists. You can't just read a line, and presume that it means X and absolutely X and in no way can mean Y. SOOOOO many things in the Quran hold a different meaning than the one you might understand upon first reading a verse. To make the picture clearer..the Quran is written in SUCH complex Arabic, that I don't understand like..50% of the words, and I can't interpret 95% of the verses to convey what they actually mean, and what they actually tell people to do, or not to do. Purely for the sake of argument, I will post things that are found in the Bible, merely to assert that if there are suspect things in a religion's Holy Book, it doesn't mean that said holybook is barbaric, or that followers of said book are savage barbarians that will carry out what the Book says to the word, and take everything completely out of context and wage holy war upon holy war. Some ignorant Christians talk about how Islam degrades women, is an outdated religion, with its holy book preaching vengeance, degrading women, violence, and heinous acts. Here are the excerpts from the Bible. Tell me if it's any different. Don't (seriously, DON'T) think that I'm saying that the Bible is terrible or anything, I'm just saying that ALL the Holy Books preach things that we might think are terrible upon first glance, but can, in some cases, mean different things. And just because a holy book contains something, that is no longer sanctioned by social doctrines and habits, it means that it's a terrible entity spawned from a terrible religion. I have the utmost respect for Christians and Christianity, I just hope the ignorant ones can learn to see things I see them, and how other humans with an actual brain see them.
Kill Your Unruly Sons
"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Cursing Parents
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Death to Sabbath Breakers
On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death. You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Followers of Other Religions
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Enemies
But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. [spoken by Jesus as a parable] (Luke 19:27 NRS)
And...how should God fearing men, treat their women?
Women Are Subordinate to Men
Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty. (1 Timothy 2:11-15 NLT)
Shut Up Women!
As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:33-35 NAB)
Don't Grab Testicles
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
Wives are Subordinate to Husbands
You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Men are in Charge
Give no woman power over you to trample upon your dignity. (Sirach 9:2 NAB)
Wives are Subordinate
Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18 NAB)
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
So the two guys can grab each others' testicles and God will approve? I knew it- religion actually supports homosexuality.
Seriously, if every rule in Holy books was strictly observed, only atheists would be left alive.
Back on topic-
I don't really have anything to say over the Israel-palestine issue except they should really ideally both cease to exist and be replaced by a single state though I guess that's pretty much impossible unless we are invaded by aliens.
About Islam and Muslims-
Just another religion and its followers. A pity that the retards(terrorists and what not) are getting all the attention for the moment. These dumbasses have set Muslims way back in their efforts to creating a more accurate image of what their religion is and which to me would be more akin to that of modern Christianity.
The problem you see, is when you get cases of people being stoned to death based on 'religious' laws and how women should wear certain clothing or how a guy is allowed to marry several women...
These showcase Islam as a very primitive religion in many eyes.
I know not all(by a long way) Muslims are like that, but the reality of what's happening in countries like Iran paints a somber picture of the whole deal.
The whole idea of the Jews having been there thousands of years ago is just bullshit. If that were to be eployed, why not give back America to the native Americans? You can't have contingencies stretching over thousands of years determine who has a right to what land, it's neither practical, workable or even right.
But on the other hand, you can't just throw them out either. I mean they live there, they work there, go to school there etc. It's not like it's a foreign army faring a guerrilla war or something, it's a functioning country. A country essentially in war and invading other lands, but still a country.
Obviously some sort of agreement has to be reached, but how... I don't know how, but it must be possible to reach it. Hell, if Swedes and Danes could smash each others heads for a thousand year and then just stop 200 years ago, and follow it with a close relationship, it should be possible. Then again, perhaps this conflict is even worse. As much as Scandinavians fought each other, we still had pretty similar cultures and values.
It's very interesting how different the media image can be in different countries. In Sweden, most people are pro-palestine, and if you're not, then you're just a usa-loving idiot. That's an exaggeration of course, but you get the point.
Religion is hardly at the center of this conflict. Oh sure it's used to brainwash suicide bombers and the like, but if we removed Judaism and Islam from the conflict but kept all other factors, we'd still have a nation fighting against it's neighbors and occupying land. Wars and conflicts should be blamed on humans.
Israel fights for its survival. Religion could be used as a tool by them, but it's not the reason. The reason is to preserve their land and not die.
Simiarly, Palestine does what pretty much every other occupied land has ever done. They fight back with sneaky and guerilla tactics. Because they want to preserve their land.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Forgive the bad analogy, but this is like two gamblers playing. Both have both won some and lost some up until this point, but both players still believe that they can win everything if they just keep on playing. Which of course isn't possible.
I wouldn't be so sure. What makes you think Isreal is going down anytime soon?
True. Still, that's not the heart of the conflict. It's a war about land, and who should have it. If neither side had believed in God this still would have gone on.
But for how long? Although it has gone of for a quite awhile, I guess it wouldn't be entirely unforeseeable that the conflict won't end anytime soon.
http://www.thedailys...rod-blagojevich
Hezbollah is in deep shit now. As much as I hate their politics and some of their goals, I simply can't imagine a Lebanon without their border protection, and significant awe they impose on Israel. Like it or not, they've broken Israel on several occasions, and their popularity grows, as does their arsenal. The tribunal is gonna hand in their report on the Rafic Hariri assassination in Q4 2010, and they're gonna implicate Hezbollah (Syria, too, I THINK) and that's gonna be a MAJOR fucking blow to them. I don't, and I won't trust any results the tribunal presents, because if America/Israel/the West had anything to do with the assassination, they're not gonna say it, and the West has SUCH interest if Hezbollah gets panned for the assassination.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
For any who wonder why the US makes foreign policy decisions that it does and scratch your head at the lack of logic behind it consider the following. I've witnessed over the years a number of things (if you want to know I can elaborate in different post) that lead me to believe many in our government's top levels set international policy based on Christian beliefs. In particular as they pertain to biblical end time prophesies. Publicly you will never hear these types of things on the TV but on Sunday's many of our leaders are getting an earful and wholeheartedly believe what comes from the pulpit. If you hear a politician profess their faith in Jesus Christ as their savior and lord, then you can bet they are on board with the below.
Some of the prophesies they are looking to all the time can be found here with biblical references:
http://www.theforbid..._generation.htm
Some of you may think all our foreign policy is about money, oil, or defense. While that is true on a number of levels, when it comes to the Mideast though I think the above plays a larger role. Israel for example, many devoted Christian's believe to not support Israel spells the US losing blessing in God's eyes. Christians have long believed that the final war will be under the guise of nations fighting against Israel for political reasons but secretly they are under Satan's control and are fighting against God. Given that, is it really any surprise we have people in government demonizing all sects of of Islam? Is it any surprise that right wing pundits want to paint all the conflict in the Mideast as an Islamic holy war. Is it any surprise they have conveniently forgotten the US's duplicitous role in the Mideast or the fact that the terrorists were mad at our foreign policy? bin Laden point blank said this was what set him off. And so the rolling snow ball grows. There are currently over 150 sects of Islam (or so I have read), twice as many as predicted by Muhammad who said his followers would become divided into seventy-three sects, every one of whom would go to hell, except one sect, the religion professed by himself and his companions.
Christianity lays no less of a bar, there are thousands of divisions in the faith now. Those protestants protested and kept on dividing and creating the next one true path to Christ. With wonderful guilt ridden passages about camels passing through the eye of a needle with greater ease than man getting to heaven. 99.9% of these divisions are no less doomed. And people find hope in this stuff? What concerns me about this is there are politicians that are actively trying to bring about biblical prophesy and it's coming at great cost to many innocent people who have no say, who are just along for the ride like it or not. That in and of itself is a heinous crime worthy of a howling mob with pitchforks and torches in hand.
I don't think that's true, bro.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions