Ok so as we all know Diablo died in Diablo 2. But what is this game without its namesake?
Here is one idea I had on a good way of bringing him back (mafisto and baal too):
In classical theory everything was made of the 4 elements; earth, water, air, and fire. These were called the PRIME or PRIMAL elements. So if you add heat, which was kinda the base unit of fire, to wood, then you make fire, more heat more fire, simple.
So lets say that our primal element is I don't know... lets say Terror, Hate, and Destruction! and you add more and more primal essence, to someone or something, it becomes more like our favorite Prime evil Diablo *cheers*. My idea is that if a person becomes full enough with this primal essence that "Hate, Terror, or Destruction" becomes part of him, making him more... hateful or whatever. Until nothing is left but that force of hate and it would change what ever contained it increasingly into the terrifying forms me know and love.
Plz post below what you think: is this plausible, what could make it more plausible, any big problems with the idea, would it work in the game?
It's a really cool idea! This topic is a great thing to brain storm about in particular. We have to keep in mind though, we have to assume that the lore of the Diablo universe will be the structure to which the story is based off of.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
We do know the necromancer is returning right? And they've told us we'll be fighting demons that HE summons. I think it was Jay Wilson that mentioned this...
So what if.... The necromancer turns evil? Hence that we have to fight HIS demons, and that he is in Act 2 to learn how to summon/ressurect/control Diablo and his brothers... Tal'rasha was in act 2 right? And Tal'Rasha was the one that held Baal prisoner in his body. Well he might be there to learn Tal'rashas secret how he imprisoned Baal. And so he visit act 3 for Mephisto and act 4 for Diablo. Eventually merging with them turning them into the bad ass demon we see today on the background of dfans. I think it was Frozendragon that also thought this demon was Mephisto/ Diablo and Baal that merged into one all-powerful bad ass demon.
Thoughts?
T
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The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn’t...
I both love and hate it... The idea of a SUPER demon is really cool! There are many aspects of demons that at least I as a gamer haven't seen. I don't know any kind of personality of demons, reasons, master plans, I don't really get any kind of motive off of them except "Yarg Kill Everything!!" just an endless mindless horde of aggression. The angelic side has more describable motives but appears to be factional, making it more cool and interesting. As for Trinity Diablo to me it is like a twisted bastardization of the 3 separate prime evils. Way more powerful for sure but we were just beginning to see the characters of Diablo, Mafisto, and Baal, and now they are plopped all in to one. All of this is great for game play but I think it's crappy for the story but we will see.
I hope there is an element to the story revealing how this merging came about. i would be very curious on how it was done. More expansion on the mysterious Tyreal would be greatly appreciated.
What mechanism do you think will be used bring diablo back in this game?
I was under the impression that when the Prime Evils were "killed" they went to the abyss. If i understand it correctly(haven't read any of the books) the abyss is the place where all demon spawn forth from. That would mean after some amount of time there the 3 could possible reemerge. As we have seen in the original announce video, the quick view of Big D looked as though he has an extra face on each shoulder almost as though 2 other demons have been fused to him. My theory is that someone or something has forced the return of the three from the abyss all at the same time. By doing this the bodies of the three merged.
OOO cool idea! Assuming that the abyss is returnable from and they were all yanked up at once and thus fused. There could be a lot to that story. Why call him back? Who would call him back? Who actually did the summoning? We have already seen strong elements of this in the cultists of serving a higher master but WHO? Maybe one of Tyreals buds needs a reason to invade sanctuary so they/he/she brought the prime evils in order to wipe out everything, including us *cough* Imperious *cough*.
Another question, if demons come from the abyss, where can people come back from or angels (we miss you tyreal)? It would be awesome if we could bring back tal rasha or Lockdonan! God i miss Lockdonan
OOO cool idea! Assuming that the abyss is returnable from and they were all yanked up at once and thus fused. There could be a lot to that story. Why call him back? Who would call him back? Who actually did the summoning? We have already seen strong elements of this in the cultists of serving a higher master but WHO? Maybe one of Tyreals buds needs a reason to invade sanctuary so they/he/she brought the prime evils in order to wipe out everything, including us *cough* Imperious *cough*.
Another question, if demons come from the abyss, where can people come back from or angels (we miss you tyreal)? It would be awesome if we could bring back tal rasha or Lockdonan! God i miss Lockdonan
The Necromancer could do the summoning? *Read up a few posts.
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The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn’t...
Hmmmm after reading the books and thinking back to the D2. I'm betting that we killed the original warrior's body that Diablo had morphed and corrupted. We more or less released him and he has only recently regained his form after the ordeal. Basically he needed the equivalent of a demon nap, he is all better now.
I think it's important in this case to distinguish between a body (or form) which is physical, and a spirit (or essence) which is metaphysical.
Physical actions can only affect physical forms. It follows that physical actions can not affect metaphysical forms. We have only ever used physical methods to dispose of Diablo, thus we have only destroyed his physical form.
The coup-de-grace is this.. Diablo's physical form is completely superficial. His spirit is the important part, it's what he actually is, and unfortunately he's not ultimately tied to a body. Every time we've killed his body, his spirit has endured (Sauron anyone?). It seems logical to assume that we can never actually eradicate the spirit or essence of Diablo so long as we use physical attacks.
So yeah. He's comin' back. Diablo 3.0
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
We do know the necromancer is returning right? And they've told us we'll be fighting demons that HE summons. I think it was Jay Wilson that mentioned this...
So what if.... The necromancer turns evil? Hence that we have to fight HIS demons, and that he is in Act 2 to learn how to summon/ressurect/control Diablo and his brothers... Tal'rasha was in act 2 right? And Tal'Rasha was the one that held Baal prisoner in his body. Well he might be there to learn Tal'rashas secret how he imprisoned Baal. And so he visit act 3 for Mephisto and act 4 for Diablo. Eventually merging with them turning them into the bad ass demon we see today on the background of dfans. I think it was Frozendragon that also thought this demon was Mephisto/ Diablo and Baal that merged into one all-powerful bad ass demon.
Thoughts?
T
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that during D2's story, the necro was going around gathering information on the Prime Evils to learn how to necromance them? There's a few problems with this theory.
First, Tal Rasha imprisoned Baal in his body by driving Baal's soulstone into his chest. That's no big secret. During D2, "Marius removed the Soulstone from Tal Rasha's chest, freeing Baal from the prison while still leaving him in possession of Tal Rasha's body." So...by the time the hero reaches the tombs, Tal Rasha/Baal is gone, so there's no one to learn any secrets from anyway. In all our other encounters with the Three throughout D2 and LoD, there isn't really any interaction with any of them besides us killing them and destroying their soulstones and thus any way to "control" or "merge" with them (granted, the fate of Baal's soulstone is unclear, but it seems like it's useless anyway, since he sundered it, which necessitated Tal Rasha's sacrifice in the first place).
Second, we have been told the D2's necromancer will return in D3 as an NPC, but I don't know where it's been said that we fight demons that HE summons. I'd like to see that quote.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it holds much water.
Second, we have been told the D2's necromancer will return in D3 as an NPC, but I don't know where it's been said that we fight demons that HE summons. I'd like to see that quote.
SPOILER ALERT?
This is one of the side quest descriptions, he doesn't summon them, but it is because of him you have to fight them
''Free the Necromancer Mehtan from the ghosts of his past. Find him south of the Enclave of Khamsin in the area known as The Stinging Winds. Summon the spirits haunting him by finding and activating his three totems, and then destroy the wraiths that appear. He gives you a rare ring as a reward.''
This is one of the side quest descriptions, he doesn't summon them, but it is because of him you have to fight them
''Free the Necromancer Mehtan from the ghosts of his past. Find him south of the Enclave of Khamsin in the area known as The Stinging Winds. Summon the spirits haunting him by finding and activating his three totems, and then destroy the wraiths that appear. He gives you a rare ring as a reward.''
Interesting...but, as it pertains to this conversation:
Not the D2 Necromancer.
Not Demons.
"the ghosts of his past" aren't "summoned" (like you mentioned), nor do they imply any ill will that would indicate that he has turned evil.
It's a really cool idea! This topic is a great thing to brain storm about in particular. We have to keep in mind though, we have to assume that the lore of the Diablo universe will be the structure to which the story is based off of.
On that note and the whole necro thing wut if this so called necro is trying to corrupt trang-oul and release him to try to dominate heaven and hell and try to do his own thing you know?> idk we will see
This is one of the side quest descriptions, he doesn't summon them, but it is because of him you have to fight them
''Free the Necromancer Mehtan from the ghosts of his past. Find him south of the Enclave of Khamsin in the area known as The Stinging Winds. Summon the spirits haunting him by finding and activating his three totems, and then destroy the wraiths that appear. He gives you a rare ring as a reward.''
Interesting...but, as it pertains to this conversation:
Not the D2 Necromancer.
Not Demons.
"the ghosts of his past" aren't "summoned" (like you mentioned), nor do they imply any ill will that would indicate that he has turned evil.
I didn't know the specifics of what the necromancers roll would be. I just made up a crazy theory out of bits and scraps of information. But it would definitely be a cool story line to follow!
ps, sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread
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The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn’t...
OK..... In Diablo 1, all we did was kill Prince Albrecht, who's body Diablo was using at the time. The champion (=wanderer) stuck the soul stone in his own head, thinking he could control it. Of course, this was Diablo's plan all along and he had probably even been brainwashing him the entire time while you were going through deeper and deeper levels of the madness that he conjured up.
In Diablo 2, we kill both Mephisto and Diablo's hosts. Then we take the soulstones (which are what contains their actual spirits and is keeping them on the mortal plane), and destroy them in the hellforge. Presumably, this merely releases the souls kept within. I haven't seen anything that says it's actually supposed to kill the Prime Evils. It just returns them to the "dark abyss that spawned them" is what I think Tyrael said. So, from the abyss, their souls are free to return to hell (presumably after a while) and re-inhabit their OWN bodies (which are presumably still in hell, since that's where they were banished from).
So they never really died in the first place... And now that the Worldstone is destroyed, they can freely travel to Sanctuary in their own, physical forms. Instead of just being a spirit that can inhabit other people's bodies. Since I think the potential of the individual hosts were keeping them from utilising their full powers (hence why Baal was the strongest of the three, he had the most powerful host), this time they'll be much more powerful.
Now, I'm guessing the only way to truly kill a demon is to destroy it's physical form. So if we defeat them in Diablo 3, they should be really dead this time.
Edit: Oh yeah, it's been confirmed for years now that Diablo is coming back in D3.
i said the same thing in anouther fourm that they where only in the spirt form not their "True Form" so we will see
I know that the Haradrim hunted down the prime evils way back when but what form were they in at that time. Were they in their Full form? i know they wanted to get caught but if they were banished from hell in their full form then when they were imprisoned in the sole stones, couldn't their decaying hulk be out there somewhere? Now that is necro fodder :D. And we dont know what form they were in when they got to sanctuary.
Every time Diablo comes back he comes back in roughly the same form so far. Both D1 and D2 he had the same spiky back bad ass tail and horns, same basic face and a giant 8 pack lol. Now we see him looking very different. I think this could be a New form for Diablo and i don't think the 3 mounts are his brothers. bc he still looks very much like Diablo.
Also hopefully you can explain it to me, in d2 act 3 both Diablo and Baal had "hosts" but Mafisto was in bad ass mode, but he still dropped the sole-stone. my question is did he drop the sole-stone bc he was carrying it like Baal, did he have it inserted into a "host" like Diablo. Or was he released from the sole-stone without a host? could that been Mafisto's true form? although yes it would be prity weak from just being summoned.
Also hopefully you can explain it to me, in d2 act 3 both Diablo and Baal had "hosts" but Mafisto was in bad ass mode, but he still dropped the sole-stone. my question is did he drop the sole-stone bc he was carrying it like Baal, did he have it inserted into a "host" like Diablo. Or was he released from the sole-stone without a host? could that been Mafisto's true form? although yes it would be prity weak from just being summoned.
While Mephisto was trapped in his soulstone, he was still able to "reach out" and corrupt the Zakarum priests who guarded him, eventually convincing them to shatter his soulstone into seven shards. The priests all drove a shard into their palms, with the largest shard being saved for the Que-Hegan (the highest-ranking priest in the Zakarum faith), Sankekur. The 6 lesser priests became the Council Members we fight in D2 and Sankekur became the host body for Mephisto.
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Here is one idea I had on a good way of bringing him back (mafisto and baal too):
In classical theory everything was made of the 4 elements; earth, water, air, and fire. These were called the PRIME or PRIMAL elements. So if you add heat, which was kinda the base unit of fire, to wood, then you make fire, more heat more fire, simple.
So lets say that our primal element is I don't know... lets say Terror, Hate, and Destruction! and you add more and more primal essence, to someone or something, it becomes more like our favorite Prime evil Diablo *cheers*. My idea is that if a person becomes full enough with this primal essence that "Hate, Terror, or Destruction" becomes part of him, making him more... hateful or whatever. Until nothing is left but that force of hate and it would change what ever contained it increasingly into the terrifying forms me know and love.
Plz post below what you think: is this plausible, what could make it more plausible, any big problems with the idea, would it work in the game?
We do know the necromancer is returning right? And they've told us we'll be fighting demons that HE summons. I think it was Jay Wilson that mentioned this...
So what if.... The necromancer turns evil? Hence that we have to fight HIS demons, and that he is in Act 2 to learn how to summon/ressurect/control Diablo and his brothers... Tal'rasha was in act 2 right? And Tal'Rasha was the one that held Baal prisoner in his body. Well he might be there to learn Tal'rashas secret how he imprisoned Baal. And so he visit act 3 for Mephisto and act 4 for Diablo. Eventually merging with them turning them into the bad ass demon we see today on the background of dfans. I think it was Frozendragon that also thought this demon was Mephisto/ Diablo and Baal that merged into one all-powerful bad ass demon.
Thoughts?
T
I hope there is an element to the story revealing how this merging came about. i would be very curious on how it was done. More expansion on the mysterious Tyreal would be greatly appreciated.
What mechanism do you think will be used bring diablo back in this game?
Another question, if demons come from the abyss, where can people come back from or angels (we miss you tyreal)? It would be awesome if we could bring back tal rasha or Lockdonan! God i miss Lockdonan
The Necromancer could do the summoning? *Read up a few posts.
I think it's important in this case to distinguish between a body (or form) which is physical, and a spirit (or essence) which is metaphysical.
Physical actions can only affect physical forms. It follows that physical actions can not affect metaphysical forms. We have only ever used physical methods to dispose of Diablo, thus we have only destroyed his physical form.
The coup-de-grace is this.. Diablo's physical form is completely superficial. His spirit is the important part, it's what he actually is, and unfortunately he's not ultimately tied to a body. Every time we've killed his body, his spirit has endured (Sauron anyone?). It seems logical to assume that we can never actually eradicate the spirit or essence of Diablo so long as we use physical attacks.
So yeah. He's comin' back. Diablo 3.0
-Thomas Jefferson
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel.
- Homer Simpson
perhaps we imprison him so he cannot take another form.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that during D2's story, the necro was going around gathering information on the Prime Evils to learn how to necromance them? There's a few problems with this theory.
First, Tal Rasha imprisoned Baal in his body by driving Baal's soulstone into his chest. That's no big secret. During D2, "Marius removed the Soulstone from Tal Rasha's chest, freeing Baal from the prison while still leaving him in possession of Tal Rasha's body." So...by the time the hero reaches the tombs, Tal Rasha/Baal is gone, so there's no one to learn any secrets from anyway. In all our other encounters with the Three throughout D2 and LoD, there isn't really any interaction with any of them besides us killing them and destroying their soulstones and thus any way to "control" or "merge" with them (granted, the fate of Baal's soulstone is unclear, but it seems like it's useless anyway, since he sundered it, which necessitated Tal Rasha's sacrifice in the first place).
Second, we have been told the D2's necromancer will return in D3 as an NPC, but I don't know where it's been said that we fight demons that HE summons. I'd like to see that quote.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it holds much water.
SPOILER ALERT?
This is one of the side quest descriptions, he doesn't summon them, but it is because of him you have to fight them
''Free the Necromancer Mehtan from the ghosts of his past. Find him south of the Enclave of Khamsin in the area known as The Stinging Winds. Summon the spirits haunting him by finding and activating his three totems, and then destroy the wraiths that appear. He gives you a rare ring as a reward.''
Interesting...but, as it pertains to this conversation:
I didn't know the specifics of what the necromancers roll would be. I just made up a crazy theory out of bits and scraps of information. But it would definitely be a cool story line to follow!
ps, sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread
Every time Diablo comes back he comes back in roughly the same form so far. Both D1 and D2 he had the same spiky back bad ass tail and horns, same basic face and a giant 8 pack lol. Now we see him looking very different. I think this could be a New form for Diablo and i don't think the 3 mounts are his brothers. bc he still looks very much like Diablo.
Also hopefully you can explain it to me, in d2 act 3 both Diablo and Baal had "hosts" but Mafisto was in bad ass mode, but he still dropped the sole-stone. my question is did he drop the sole-stone bc he was carrying it like Baal, did he have it inserted into a "host" like Diablo. Or was he released from the sole-stone without a host? could that been Mafisto's true form? although yes it would be prity weak from just being summoned.
While Mephisto was trapped in his soulstone, he was still able to "reach out" and corrupt the Zakarum priests who guarded him, eventually convincing them to shatter his soulstone into seven shards. The priests all drove a shard into their palms, with the largest shard being saved for the Que-Hegan (the highest-ranking priest in the Zakarum faith), Sankekur. The 6 lesser priests became the Council Members we fight in D2 and Sankekur became the host body for Mephisto.