I have a big debate over myself concerning these three modifiers. Which one yields more dps?
A: Going the highest Crit Hit Chance/Dmg? Say around 50% CC and 475%+ CHD? B: Tone down the critical modifers down to 35%-45% CC and 350%-400% CHD and add %elemental dmg of 40% at least?
Quote from Kajikami»Well, going with your numbers: A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92 So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math. That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
This math seems flawed. Shoudnt it be .5*1 + .5*4.75 = 2.875. 1 is your base hit, but when you crit you dont do your base hit, you only do your crit hit. So you only do your base hit 50% of the times with 50% crit chance. With your formula, 50% crit chance and 0% crit damage you would end up with: 1+.5*1.5=1.75 damage, which makes no sense considering your crits are only 1.5 damage to begin with. The correct way would be: .5*1+.5*1.5=1.25 damage. Which makes sense because with 50% extra damage on a crit 50% of the times you obviously end up doing 25% more damage.
That's why I have a dps spreadsheet. It's meant for wizards but with some creativity you can use it for other classes (just not dual wielding, but that shouldn't make too much difference between CC/CD vs ele, unless you are talking about on weapons.
Quote from Kajikami»Well, going with your numbers: A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92 So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math. That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
This math seems flawed. Shoudnt it be .5*1 + .5*4.75 = 2.875. 1 is your base hit, but when you crit you dont do your base hit, you only do your crit hit. So you only do your base hit 50% of the times with 50% crit chance. With your formula, 50% crit chance and 0% crit damage you would end up with: 1+.5*1.5=1.75 damage, which makes no sense considering your crits are only 1.5 damage to begin with. The correct way would be: .5*1+.5*1.5=1.25 damage. Which makes sense because with 50% extra damage on a crit 50% of the times you obviously end up doing 25% more damage.
If you have just the base 50% crit damage, you do (1 + .5*.5) = 1.25 times base damage, just like you said. If you had 150% crit damage you'd do (1 + .5*1.5) = 1.75 times base damage. I'm assuming that when he said 475% CHD, he meant that much bonus damage, (which is what is shown on your char sheet).
Quote from Kajikami»Well, going with your numbers: A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92 So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math. That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
This math seems flawed. Shoudnt it be .5*1 + .5*4.75 = 2.875. 1 is your base hit, but when you crit you dont do your base hit, you only do your crit hit. So you only do your base hit 50% of the times with 50% crit chance. With your formula, 50% crit chance and 0% crit damage you would end up with: 1+.5*1.5=1.75 damage, which makes no sense considering your crits are only 1.5 damage to begin with. The correct way would be: .5*1+.5*1.5=1.25 damage. Which makes sense because with 50% extra damage on a crit 50% of the times you obviously end up doing 25% more damage.
The math is right. If you have 50% CC and 475% CD, and say 100 dps, half the time you do 100 damage, the other half the time you do 575 damage. That averages out to 337.5 damage per hit, or a modifier of 3.375
The formula you're looking for is along the lines of
(1-CC)+CC*(1+CD)
In words, you do base damage a fraction of the hits equal to (1-CC). When you crit, you do CD extra damage above the base, i.e., with 100% CD you do double the base damage.
What if I didn’t care tostack crit chance and crit damage as the main things?
What if I instead focused on having my items roll +% elemental damage, +%skill Damage, +Damage, +% Damage on weapons and put a Ruby in Weapon Socket...
My thinking is that let say I wanted to make a Meteor Build (Comet Rune)- I want to synergise with the Tal Rasha 4 piece bonus!
It does about 390% weapon damage when cast.
Now let’s say I have of +100%cold damage and +30% Meteor skill damage
Here is where I am no maths expert... but would that make the skill do 390 x 2.0 x 1.3= 1014% weapon damage. Now the higher my weapon damage from the stats on my weapon, offhand, rings, amulet and Ruby in Weapon would also help a lot. So.. am I crazy to think that this is a better idea to prioritise rather than always trying to have at least 40% crit and 400% crit damage? Thanks to all the smart people who can put me straight
What if I didn’t care tostack crit chance and crit damage as the main things?
What if I instead focused on having my items roll +% elemental damage, +%skill Damage, +Damage, +% Damage on weapons and put a Ruby in Weapon Socket...
My thinking is that let say I wanted to make a Meteor Build (Comet Rune)- I want to synergise with the Tal Rasha 4 piece bonus!
It does about 390% weapon damage when cast.
Now let’s say I have of +100%cold damage and +30% Meteor skill damage
Here is where I am no maths expert... but would that make the skill do 390 x 2.0 x 1.3= 1014% weapon damage. Now the higher my weapon damage from the stats on my weapon, offhand, rings, amulet and Ruby in Weapon would also help a lot. So.. am I crazy to think that this is a better idea to prioritise rather than always trying to have at least 40% crit and 400% crit damage? Thanks to all the smart people who can put me straight
We are in the same boat there and this is where things get difficult to accomplish. We all want the highest DPS ever but being a Sader requires you to achieve certain toughness if you are going melee builds (Shield Bash, Swipe). We can't have the best from both worlds. On the other hand I am currently gearing towards elemental damage and skill damage. Here, take a look at my crusader.
40% Crit Chance and around 420% crit damage with 56% more fire damage and 30% Blessed Shield Damage (I don't know why the boots says 10%). On top of that I do an extra 20% more damage on elites. My Blessed Shields are hitting for 11m-13m crits on elites with Charge Up and I can run T4 solo with no problems. I could use magefist for more fire damage but the big question comes into my mind:
Should I try and roll trifecta magefist over my current health pool? I love running my crusader with 550K+ health. Or let's take a look at my Mempo. Should I reroll that 15% for 6% more crit? Always a big debate.
What if I didn’t care tostack crit chance and crit damage as the main things?
What if I instead focused on having my items roll +% elemental damage, +%skill Damage, +Damage, +% Damage on weapons and put a Ruby in Weapon Socket...
My thinking is that let say I wanted to make a Meteor Build (Comet Rune)- I want to synergise with the Tal Rasha 4 piece bonus!
It does about 390% weapon damage when cast.
Now let’s say I have of +100%cold damage and +30% Meteor skill damage
Here is where I am no maths expert... but would that make the skill do 390 x 2.0 x 1.3= 1014% weapon damage.
Now the higher my weapon damage from the stats on my weapon, offhand, rings, amulet and Ruby in Weapon would also help a lot.
So.. am I crazy to think that this is a better idea to prioritise rather than always trying to have at least 40% crit and 400% crit damage?
Thanks to all the smart people who can put me straight
We are in the same boat there and this is where things get difficult to accomplish. We all want the highest DPS ever but being a Sader requires you to achieve certain toughness if you are going melee builds (Shield Bash, Swipe). We can't have the best from both worlds. On the other hand I am currently gearing towards elemental damage and skill damage. Here, take a look at my crusader.
40% Crit Chance and around 420% crit damage with 56% more fire damage and 30% Blessed Shield Damage (I don't know why the boots says 10%). On top of that I do an extra 20% more damage on elites. My Blessed Shields are hitting for 11m-13m crits on elites with Charge Up and I can run T4 solo with no problems. I could use magefist for more fire damage but the big question comes into my mind:
Should I try and roll trifecta magefist over my current health pool? I love running my crusader with 550K+ health. Or let's take a look at my Mempo. Should I reroll that 15% for 6% more crit? Always a big debate.
Yeah there are not as many toughness trade-offs for Wizards I feel...It is more.. kill things quick and pick up health globes
Lets say I have two gear sets for a Meteor Comet Build.. what is the better option (damage wise)
Gear Set 1: 1000 Weapon Damage, 40% crit chance, 400% crit hit damage(Emerald in Weapon), 7000 intelligence, +30% cold Damage
Or
Gear Set 2: 1200 Weapon Damage(Ruby in Weapon + Damage affix on Rings/amulet/Source),15% crit chance, 150% crit Damage, 6000intelligence, +60% Cold Damage, +40% Meteor Damage
What if I didn’t care tostack crit chance and crit damage as the main things?
What if I instead focused on having my items roll +% elemental damage, +%skill Damage, +Damage, +% Damage on weapons and put a Ruby in Weapon Socket...
My thinking is that let say I wanted to make a Meteor Build (Comet Rune)- I want to synergise with the Tal Rasha 4 piece bonus!
It does about 390% weapon damage when cast.
Now let’s say I have of +100%cold damage and +30% Meteor skill damage
Here is where I am no maths expert... but would that make the skill do 390 x 2.0 x 1.3= 1014% weapon damage. Now the higher my weapon damage from the stats on my weapon, offhand, rings, amulet and Ruby in Weapon would also help a lot. So.. am I crazy to think that this is a better idea to prioritise rather than always trying to have at least 40% crit and 400% crit damage? Thanks to all the smart people who can put me straight
There's a few reasons why no one really does that.
1) rings and gloves only have so many dps stats, so it's pretty easy to grab CC+CD on those, and still have room for either cost reduction or cooldown reduction, or even IAS if you want more dps, depending on build. OH also only has so many options, and you can get Int, Skill damage, CC, and cost reduction on it. If you're thinking of dropping CC for vit, I recommend getting your vit on another piece instead. If you want APoC, you can get that instead of cost reduction, most likely.
2) +damage% on weapons only rolls up to 10% now, instead of the 50% before 2.0. If you just get CC on rings, gloves, and OH, chances are CD gem will be considerably better than a ruby in weapon.
3) Damage values give exponential gain. The more you have of one stat, the more dps you gain from the others. Individual stats are mostly linear by themselves. For example, if you have 100k APS and 0 IAS, every % of IAS gives you 1k DPS. If you add CC+CD and raise your dps to 120k, now every IAS% gives you 1.2k dps.
In the end, the reason people don't just stack those damage types is because they can stack those AND CC+CD (though usually +damage on jewelery is dropped since you get so much more dps from CC or CD). If you want to see how it works out for the gear level you have, you can use my spreadsheet to compare similar gear sets and just play around with the individual stats.
I have a big debate over myself concerning these three modifiers. Which one yields more dps?
A: Going the highest Crit Hit Chance/Dmg? Say around 50% CC and 475%+ CHD?
B: Tone down the critical modifers down to 35%-45% CC and 350%-400% CHD and add %elemental dmg of 40% at least?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Ebolavîrus-1577/hero/43894361
Can't see your profile
A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375
B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92
So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math.
That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
Thanks a lot for the formula. I am not the best at math
Thanks a lot!
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
The formula you're looking for is along the lines of
(1-CC)+CC*(1+CD)
In words, you do base damage a fraction of the hits equal to (1-CC). When you crit, you do CD extra damage above the base, i.e., with 100% CD you do double the base damage.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
What if I didn’t care tostack crit chance and crit damage as the main things?
What if I instead focused on having my items roll +% elemental damage, +%skill Damage, +Damage, +% Damage on weapons and put a Ruby in Weapon Socket...
My thinking is that let say I wanted to make a Meteor Build (Comet Rune)- I want to synergise with the Tal Rasha 4 piece bonus!
It does about 390% weapon damage when cast.
Now let’s say I have of +100%cold damage and +30% Meteor skill damage
Here is where I am no maths expert... but would that make the skill do 390 x 2.0 x 1.3= 1014% weapon damage.
Now the higher my weapon damage from the stats on my weapon, offhand, rings, amulet and Ruby in Weapon would also help a lot.
So.. am I crazy to think that this is a better idea to prioritise rather than always trying to have at least 40% crit and 400% crit damage?
Thanks to all the smart people who can put me straight
We are in the same boat there and this is where things get difficult to accomplish. We all want the highest DPS ever but being a Sader requires you to achieve certain toughness if you are going melee builds (Shield Bash, Swipe). We can't have the best from both worlds. On the other hand I am currently gearing towards elemental damage and skill damage. Here, take a look at my crusader.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/IllusiveMind-1700/hero/43545894
40% Crit Chance and around 420% crit damage with 56% more fire damage and 30% Blessed Shield Damage (I don't know why the boots says 10%). On top of that I do an extra 20% more damage on elites. My Blessed Shields are hitting for 11m-13m crits on elites with Charge Up and I can run T4 solo with no problems. I could use magefist for more fire damage but the big question comes into my mind:
Should I try and roll trifecta magefist over my current health pool? I love running my crusader with 550K+ health. Or let's take a look at my Mempo. Should I reroll that 15% for 6% more crit? Always a big debate.
Lets say I have two gear sets for a Meteor Comet Build.. what is the better option (damage wise)
Gear Set 1: 1000 Weapon Damage, 40% crit chance, 400% crit hit damage(Emerald in Weapon), 7000 intelligence, +30% cold Damage
Or
Gear Set 2: 1200 Weapon Damage(Ruby in Weapon + Damage affix on Rings/amulet/Source),15% crit chance, 150% crit Damage, 6000intelligence, +60% Cold Damage, +40% Meteor Damage
base damage * critical modifier * int modifier * elemental modifier * skill modifier
1000 * (1 + 0.4 * 4) * (1 + 70) * 1.3 * 1 = 239,980
1200 * (1 + 0.15 * 1.5) * (1 + 60) * 1.6 * 1.4 = 200,860
You're still better with crit apparently in this case.
However, those numbers don't seem incredibly realistic to me.
You don't have to sacrifice intelligence to get bonus damage, skill damage, or critical hit chance/damage..
1) rings and gloves only have so many dps stats, so it's pretty easy to grab CC+CD on those, and still have room for either cost reduction or cooldown reduction, or even IAS if you want more dps, depending on build. OH also only has so many options, and you can get Int, Skill damage, CC, and cost reduction on it. If you're thinking of dropping CC for vit, I recommend getting your vit on another piece instead. If you want APoC, you can get that instead of cost reduction, most likely.
2) +damage% on weapons only rolls up to 10% now, instead of the 50% before 2.0. If you just get CC on rings, gloves, and OH, chances are CD gem will be considerably better than a ruby in weapon.
3) Damage values give exponential gain. The more you have of one stat, the more dps you gain from the others. Individual stats are mostly linear by themselves. For example, if you have 100k APS and 0 IAS, every % of IAS gives you 1k DPS. If you add CC+CD and raise your dps to 120k, now every IAS% gives you 1.2k dps.
In the end, the reason people don't just stack those damage types is because they can stack those AND CC+CD (though usually +damage on jewelery is dropped since you get so much more dps from CC or CD). If you want to see how it works out for the gear level you have, you can use my spreadsheet to compare similar gear sets and just play around with the individual stats.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard