Dual Wielding vs One Handed+Shield.....? Advantages and Disadvantages.

  • #1
    So, my question is do you deal more damage while dual wielding as compared to One Handed+ Off-hand Shield. And if yes then how does this mechanic work?!

    Does dual wielding increase your attack speed or something else?
    Because if the player alternates between the two weapons while dual wielding then he should do just the same amount of damage as when he would use a one handed weapon+shield.

    Someone please explain to me how this works.

    Thanks!
  • #2
    +15% weapon speed while dual wielding.
    My place really was here. I was too foolish and stubborn to notice. But, what I truly hoped for then was here. Why do I always realize it When I've already lost it.
  • #3
    You will deal more damage with 2 weapons, or a 2h, in comparison to 1h+shield. The shield is for defensive purposes.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    shall be my brother..."
  • #4
    Quote from Knucker

    +15% weapon speed while dual wielding.


    So, while playing as the monk if I get the passive that adds 25% attack speed while dual wielding, will that increase my DPS as well?
  • #5
    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Knucker

    +15% weapon speed while dual wielding.


    So, while playing as the monk if I get the passive that adds 25% attack speed while dual wielding, will that increase my DPS as well?


    wtf are you talking about... thats 15% dodge rate not 25% attack speed. And the only 25% anything on that passive is +25% SPIRIT GENERATION, and thats with 2H weapon.
  • #6
    Quote from salil_707

    So, my question is do you deal more damage while dual wielding as compared to One Handed+ Off-hand Shield. And if yes then how does this mechanic work?!

    Does dual wielding increase your attack speed or something else?
    Because if the player alternates between the two weapons while dual wielding then he should do just the same amount of damage as when he would use a one handed weapon+shield.

    Someone please explain to me how this works.

    Thanks!


    Dual wielding gives +15% attack speed, and gives you the bonuses that come from 2 weapons.
    2H weapons gives you higher Damage per hit (good for skills with cool downs ... and other builds)

    1H/2H bow + quiver gives you bonuses from quiver AND increased attack speed. According to the website theres an inferno quiver that gives +14% increased attack speed. This means your quiver can essentially negate any benefit from dual wielding.

    1H + Shield gives you significantly higher armor (overall reduced damage) and a 20% chance to block damage. From my understanding each blocked hit is removed AFTER the armor reduction.
  • #7
    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Knucker

    +15% weapon speed while dual wielding.


    So, while playing as the monk if I get the passive that adds 25% attack speed while dual wielding, will that increase my DPS as well?


    wtf are you talking about... thats 15% dodge rate not 25% attack speed. And the only 25% anything on that passive is +25% SPIRIT GENERATION, and thats with 2H weapon.


    sorry, the 25% was increased spirit regeneration.
    So, the +15% weapon speed is the only advantage while dual wielding then?
  • #8
    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Knucker

    +15% weapon speed while dual wielding.


    So, while playing as the monk if I get the passive that adds 25% attack speed while dual wielding, will that increase my DPS as well?


    wtf are you talking about... thats 15% dodge rate not 25% attack speed. And the only 25% anything on that passive is +25% SPIRIT GENERATION, and thats with 2H weapon.


    sorry, the 25% was increased spirit regeneration.
    So, the +15% weapon speed is the only advantage while dual wielding then?


    No - You also get the added benefits from the second weapon.

    If your offhand weapon gives you +100 Strength, that actually increases the damage of your mainhand weapon as well.
  • #9
    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    So, my question is do you deal more damage while dual wielding as compared to One Handed+ Off-hand Shield. And if yes then how does this mechanic work?!

    Does dual wielding increase your attack speed or something else?
    Because if the player alternates between the two weapons while dual wielding then he should do just the same amount of damage as when he would use a one handed weapon+shield.

    Someone please explain to me how this works.

    Thanks!


    Dual wielding gives +15% attack speed, and gives you the bonuses that come from 2 weapons.
    2H weapons gives you higher Damage per hit (good for skills with cool downs ... and other builds)

    1H/2H bow + quiver gives you bonuses from quiver AND increased attack speed. According to the website theres an inferno quiver that gives +14% increased attack speed. This means your quiver can essentially negate any benefit from dual wielding.

    1H + Shield gives you significantly higher armor (overall reduced damage) and a 20% chance to block damage. From my understanding each blocked hit is removed AFTER the armor reduction.


    My main concern is dual wielding with the monk, as he does not have any special off hands such as quivers or voodoo dolls.

    So, go dual wielding if you choose to focus on spirit spenders that do not consume a lot of spirit and can be spammed but go dual wielding if you choose to use heavy spirit spenders.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  • #10
    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    So, my question is do you deal more damage while dual wielding as compared to One Handed+ Off-hand Shield. And if yes then how does this mechanic work?!

    Does dual wielding increase your attack speed or something else?
    Because if the player alternates between the two weapons while dual wielding then he should do just the same amount of damage as when he would use a one handed weapon+shield.

    Someone please explain to me how this works.

    Thanks!


    Dual wielding gives +15% attack speed, and gives you the bonuses that come from 2 weapons.
    2H weapons gives you higher Damage per hit (good for skills with cool downs ... and other builds)

    1H/2H bow + quiver gives you bonuses from quiver AND increased attack speed. According to the website theres an inferno quiver that gives +14% increased attack speed. This means your quiver can essentially negate any benefit from dual wielding.

    1H + Shield gives you significantly higher armor (overall reduced damage) and a 20% chance to block damage. From my understanding each blocked hit is removed AFTER the armor reduction.


    My main concern is dual wielding with the monk, as he does not have any special off hands such as quivers or voodoo dolls.

    So, go dual wielding if you choose to focus on spirit spenders that do not consume a lot of spirit and can be spammed but go dual wielding if you choose to use heavy spirit spenders.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.


    In the beta, I've been using regular staffs as my weapon of choice. Monk cannot use 2H swords, so the highest damage I can grab in the beta is from a staff (16.5-18dps). I have since become accustomed to using staffs due to the higher damage per hit. For example, having a slower but more powerful weapon WILL be better for exploding palm as it will do more damage in the DOT, proccing more explosions.

    However, with guardians path and dual wield you get +15% dodge. This is NOTHING to scoff at.... say you have 500 Dex (10(100dex)+10(400 dex)), guardians path and mantra of evasion... you will have a 42.2% chance to dodge attacks.

    Dodge means the attack does not hit you at all. No CC... no stun... no damage... nothing.
  • #11
    one of the benefits of duel weilding is how fast and responsive your character becomes.

    You can go in attack and move out so much faster due to quicker animations than a daibo or any other 2h which you have to wait for the slow animation to finish.
  • #12
    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    Quote from Sabvre

    Quote from salil_707

    So, my question is do you deal more damage while dual wielding as compared to One Handed+ Off-hand Shield. And if yes then how does this mechanic work?!

    Does dual wielding increase your attack speed or something else?
    Because if the player alternates between the two weapons while dual wielding then he should do just the same amount of damage as when he would use a one handed weapon+shield.

    Someone please explain to me how this works.

    Thanks!


    Dual wielding gives +15% attack speed, and gives you the bonuses that come from 2 weapons.
    2H weapons gives you higher Damage per hit (good for skills with cool downs ... and other builds)

    1H/2H bow + quiver gives you bonuses from quiver AND increased attack speed. According to the website theres an inferno quiver that gives +14% increased attack speed. This means your quiver can essentially negate any benefit from dual wielding.

    1H + Shield gives you significantly higher armor (overall reduced damage) and a 20% chance to block damage. From my understanding each blocked hit is removed AFTER the armor reduction.


    My main concern is dual wielding with the monk, as he does not have any special off hands such as quivers or voodoo dolls.

    So, go dual wielding if you choose to focus on spirit spenders that do not consume a lot of spirit and can be spammed but go dual wielding if you choose to use heavy spirit spenders.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.


    In the beta, I've been using regular staffs as my weapon of choice. Monk cannot use 2H swords, so the highest damage I can grab in the beta is from a staff (16.5-18dps). I have since become accustomed to using staffs due to the higher damage per hit. For example, having a slower but more powerful weapon WILL be better for exploding palm as it will do more damage in the DOT, proccing more explosions.

    However, with guardians path and dual wield you get +15% dodge. This is NOTHING to scoff at.... say you have 500 Dex (10(100dex)+10(400 dex)), guardians path and mantra of evasion... you will have a 42.2% chance to dodge attacks.

    Dodge means the attack does not hit you at all. No CC... no stun... no damage... nothing.


    In your opinion, is spirit regeneration a problem with 2-handed weapons as compared to single handed weapons?
    Because if you are using spells like exploding palm and other heavy spirit spenders, you need to regenerate a lot of spirit over a short duration of time and due to the slower attack speed of 2-handed weapons spirit is generated slower than with 1-handed weapons.
  • #13
    Quote from salil_707

    In your opinion, is spirit regeneration a problem with 2-handed weapons as compared to single handed weapons?
    Because if you are using spells like exploding palm and other heavy spirit spenders, you need to regenerate a lot of spirit over a short duration of time and due to the slower attack speed of 2-handed weapons spirit is generated slower than with 1-handed weapons.


    Yes and no. While you attack slower and gain less spirit... your spirit spenders do more damage per spirit spent so it balances out.

    Also... the guardians path passive gives you +25% spirit earning ... this means you will gain 7.5 spirit per attack with a diabo.
  • #14
    I don't think anyone can answer that, partly because we don't know how the spirit generation will look later on in the game and partly because it's up to individual preference.

    2h weapons will have lower spirit generation but will also give you more damage per spirit from (most) spirit spenders. There will probably be a mathematically superior choice, but I doubt it will be that one-sided, it will come down to what you feel suits you best.
  • #15
    Generally, yes, you do more damage dual-wielding as opposed to a one-hander and shield combo, but I have noticed that at early levels my Damage stat has been higher with a one-hander and shield than with the same one-hander and another one-hander in the off hand. Makes me wonder how it's calculated.

    Later on in levels I find that dual-wielding is always better than using a shield.
  • #16
    I guess this discussion is very close to some theorycrafting (and probably will become very useful once the game launches), so I'll move it to that subforum.
  • #17
    Quote from aldrek
    Makes me wonder how it's calculated


    This has probably been the case when you found your first magic weapon, lets say 9 dps one, to accompany a starting white weapon of 3 dps. Since when dual wielding you spend half the time striking with the main hand weapon, and half the time striking with the off hand weapon, the 15% APS bonus isn't enough to compensate for the huge disparity in dps between the different weapons.
  • #18
    Quote from sooru

    Quote from aldrek
    Makes me wonder how it's calculated


    This has probably been the case when you found your first magic weapon, lets say 9 dps one, to accompany a starting white weapon of 3 dps. Since when dual wielding you spend half the time striking with the main hand weapon, and half the time striking with the off hand weapon, the 15% APS bonus isn't enough to compensate for the huge disparity in dps between the different weapons.


    Dual wielding receives the MOST benefit from wounding affixes. 7-13 1.6x + 7-13 1.6x weapon will receive better effects from 2 x 2-4 wounding rings than would a Two hand weapon.

    DPS Wise:
    Wounding = Best Affix for a dual Wielder
    Keen = Best affix for a 2H'er.
  • #19
    IAS shouldn't benefit 2Hs more than 1Hs really.

    If you have a 3.0 attack speed/20 damage vs 1.0/60 damage with a 20% increase in attack speed... that's 3.6 attack speed VS 1.2. The DPS would be 72 in both circumstances. Generally, IAS is really just a damage multiplier.

    But yeah, + Damage is better on a 1H than a 2H because it's not a percentage increase. But faster weapons use more mana/sec with non-cooldown abilities, so 2Hs receive a greater benefit from + Mana/+ Mana Regen that's on the rest of your gear.

    And on spammable spells, the damage should alternate between your two weapons... but the DPS comes out to the same amount in the end, just fyi.

    Overall... the stats you receive on an OH should make up for the fact that you're not using a 2H. And if you don't have offensive abilities with a cooldown or high resource cost, it's more likely that dual wielding could be better for you.

    Basically... 2Hs should usually do more damage but it's up to you to decide if dual wielding is better for your build because of the stats you gain or because your build can actually do more damage by dual wielding. It's much easier to answer whether 2H is better or not when you can see someone's build and their weapon choices.
  • #20
    I have a gut feeling, that both dual wield and 2h will lose hard vs s/s.
    My current understandings of the dps calculations are as follows:
    There are several factors (x1, x2 etc) that all get multiplied to get our final dps output, these being:

    x1: weapon damage = (sum of min dam from all gear sources incl weapon in question + same sum of max dam) /2 * bonus of the skill used (ex. 150% for Bash)
    (does not include min and max dam from the other weapon of course)
    x2: strength bonus = obvious
    x3: crit factor = crit chance % * crit bonus % (ex: 5% crit chance and a 50% bonus result in a factor of 1.025)
    x4: weapon speed = base speed of the weapon
    x5: haste bonus = additive sum of all haste effects on gear and from other sources(ex: dw bonus) *)
    x6: buff skill modifier on the player = to be determined, probably additive sum of buffs
    x7: debuff skill modifier on the monster = see above

    *) I do not yet know, how haste % on the weapon itself gets applied, I suppose this goes into x5 from all equipped weapons, so that the mainhand would gain a dps increase from haste % on the offhand, but this small part is speculation and not included in my examples as I didn't use weapons with haste %.

    So, for example with my current Barb, who has the following stats: str 92, 10% crit chance, 100% bonus crit damage, wears two rings with +2-4 dam and 5% haste each and uses a sickle with 9-15 dam @ 1.3 speed I get for auto attacks(=tooltip dps):

    x1 = (9+2+2+15+4+4)/2 = 18
    x2 = 1.92
    x3 = 1.10 * 100% = 1.10
    x4 = 1.3
    x5 = 5% + 5% = 10 % => 1.10
    x6, x7 = no values

    gives 18 * 1.92 * 1.10 * 1.3 * 1.10 = 54,36 (matches char menu)

    Pretty simple until this point. Now I could equip a shield and gain a substantial defensive boost. At least I think it's substantial, from the tone of other posts, I didn't bother with defense yet.
    But if I choose to equip a second weapon, I get this magical 15% haste boost, which results in this variation of my above example:

    x1 = remains 18
    x2 = remains 1.92
    x3 = remains 1.10
    x4 = remains 1.30
    x5 = 5% + 5% + 15% = 1.25
    x6, x7 = nothing

    So my mainhand would do 18 * 1.92 * 1.10 * 1.30 * 1.25 = 61.78 dps. Would as in it deals only half that amount = 30.89 dps because hands swing alternately. Now under perfect conditions our offhand would be a mirror version of the mainhand so that we get exactly the same results for the offhand as we got for the mainhand and then we would do these 61.78 dps as dual wield vs 54.36 dps as s/s.
    A pretty small gain, I'd say. And it only gets worse if the offhand is weaker than the mainhand which will probably be the case most of the time since you just don't find Warglaives in sets of two at a time.
    So, to finish the math, you'd do the exact same calculation for your offhand that you did for the mainhand and take 50% of that as well, these two values added together match the tooltip dps, which I have just tested with various weapons ingame.

    So, long story short:
    Dual Wield is at best a minor damage increase over S/S, which may hardly be justified.
    2h, which is supposed to be on par with DW may easier reach this potential damage increase over S/S because it doesn't need two mirrored weapons for that, but even then, something like a 15% gain over S/S does not sound like an Inferno plan IF using a shield makes such a big difference as it sounds so far.
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