So, I would occasionally notice someone going "OH Look I made a generic DPS/Healer/Tank setup" and someone would reply "this isn't WoW". So I actually go to thinking, maybe you can still have roles, but oh so slightly different. Some classes tank better, CC better, or DPS/Glass Cannon better. The Barb has some, barely any, but some, taunting skills, he also stacks armor and HP making him more tanky. But does that exclude him from damage like lots of generic RPG tanks? NO! The Monk and Demon Hunter seem like some really nice and fast DPSers, but they have a TON of speed and CCs. Witch Doctor can do quite a bit of damage, i'm not too sure because its only beta, but he also has a rediculous amount of CC, and I can't honestly speak of the wizard with what information I have. My conclusion is that Parties wont run so much as DPS/Tank/Healer, like WoW for example, but maybe 1 or 2 slightly tanked, with 1 or 2 CC focused characters, and 1 or 2 DPS. Just because you do a lot of DPS doesn't mean you cant tank or CC, either.
Any comments appreciated, or am I just the only person that kind of noticed this?
Edit: Sorry if it seems a bit garbled, long day of school and was kind of a spur of the moment thing :Thumbs Up:
from what i gather, yes it can be set up like that. However, Diablo 3 is made toward the more lone wolf crowd everything can be completed by themselves.WoW and other MMO are completely made for groups, you can't complete things like dungeons and raids with out 5 or more people using specific roles tank/healer/dps.
Great video, after about 2-3 years of WoW i'd have to agree with this 100%.
And no, my idea isn't so much as a holy trinity, but a blurred line between DPS, CC, and Tanking. No class does any one job perfectly, just in their different way with lines blurred on either side.
from what i gather, yes it can be set up like that. However, Diablo 3 is made toward the more lone wolf crowd everything can be completed by themselves.WoW and other MMO are completely made for groups, you can't complete things like dungeons and raids with out 5 or more people using specific roles tank/healer/dps.
True, but I'm talking specifically about a 4 person group, and the different things they may want, or even need to do, this is, after all, the theorycrafting section, correct?
What'd be great to see with Diablo III is if basically any group setup has a good chance at playing through from start to finish, provided they know how to play. I'm not saying some setups shouldn't be a bit easier than others (I'm sure we'll all figure out soon enough how that plays out) - but if any setup can (with some player skills) finish the game then I think Blizzard has done something right with Diablo III.
What that would mean is that since the game isn't easy in itself (which it isn't.. right? Make it even harder already!) then we'd have a huge variation in scenarios unfolding as X team setup moves through the game compared to Y team setup et cetera. Different encounters and zones would have to be handled in totally different ways depending on the setup.
I really, really hope the D3 experience will feel anything but static.
I agree, hopefully the mechanic allows any group to make it to atleast inferno. I highly doubt a bunch of Wizards and WDs can take on inferno :S. And hopefully a random group of mediocre players can make it past hell without too much difficulty. Of course I hope they make inferno as difficult as it sounds.
Great video, after about 2-3 years of WoW i'd have to agree with this 100%.
And no, my idea isn't so much as a holy trinity, but a blurred line between DPS, CC, and Tanking. No class does any one job perfectly, just in their different way with lines blurred on either side.
I found the video the other day when researching Guild Wars 2. Which, by the way, doesn't have any healing class. Every class gets a personal heal, but besides that, there are only group oriented buffs/debuffs. I believe some might get a group HoT, but it has a long timer so cannot be used as a dedicated healer class.
So awesome! I really hope that game, and D3, play out as intended and are amazing!
The way I see it, some people like to make "Support" builds for co-op. Which is a good idea, I think i'll play a WD which has support buffs.
However if the whole party has a build that can solo, it will also will work in a group as everyone can handle themselfs.
I think D3 is open to all styles.
But D3 ISN'T WoW. It's primarily a single player game with a side of multiplayer.
From my play throughs of the beta and what I've read, I believe the game will be completely playable with any class/skill combo. Heck you could run with 4 of the same class. Of course 4 Wizards spamming only Ray of Frost will proabably not do well in Inferno
What I'm getting at is that people will not really need to worry about class/skill comp to be able to complete content. Will it be done? Of course. Will it be needed? I doubt it (with in reason of course).
But D3 ISN'T WoW. It's primarily a single player game with a side of multiplayer.
From my play throughs of the beta and what I've read, I believe the game will be completely playable with any class/skill combo. Heck you could run with 4 of the same class. Of course 4 Wizards spamming only Ray of Frost will proabably not do well in Inferno
What I'm getting at is that people will not really need to worry about class/skill comp to be able to complete content. Will it be done? Of course. Will it be needed? I doubt it (with in reason of course).
Honestly, I'm hoping that is NOT the case, I thinks its a little too forgiving in inferno than what inferno is supposed to be. Up to hell, i hope its easy as spamming buttons and my grandmother can do it, but I'm hoping inferno takes real skill, and real character comps to sucessfully farm. I want it to be a fun, unforgiving system, if that's possible.
If you’re a DERP you will fail, if four smart players use four wizards it should be doable (difficult for sure though). If you have to have certain builds to maintain group succession of inferno then they have failed. It cannot be stated more simply than this, I could give a detailed explanation why, but I shouldn't have to.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Everybody keeps telling me how there will be no holy trinity etc, but you all haven't tried Inferno yet... I have a feeling that a supporting monk or/and a tanky barb would be rather needed... can't imagine a group of 4 mages running around on inferno!
I've read a lot of people's posts about the monk - most of them want to play it without being pressured to become a support class, which is rather unlikely i would say since specifically the monk has a biiig array of spells, which are both offensive and defensive! I guess time will tell... In the mean time I'll be planning my monk's specs!
thats the exact reason i am playing a monk because he has the most utility its gonna be awesome people are gonna be like plz join group cant get pass boss and i being the awesome monk i am will say yes friends i will help lol
Well, as it stands now the Monk is the only class that can really be a healer in a group, and can do so quite proficiently I might add. I've thought about this a great deal, and it seems like it won't matter too much what class, or build of that class you pick you'll be fine.
However, if they live up to the hype, that there won't be any derping around past maybe NM, Hell is supposed to be as difficult as hell was in D2, with Inferno being even harder that's the whole point. Sure you can still out level it, so after you've beaten it you'll have an easier time, but it won't be something that you can get through smashing keyboard to face. At least that's what they've implied so far.
I do think that groups that follow the tank/support/DPS guideline will be possible, but I think that if you're going to be playing with random people more than a set group, that you should go for a solo build, it will take coordination in order to really be successful with that sort of a group, but I also think that if done right they will have a faster killing speed, and higher survival rate.
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and if you guys remember- in d2 they said that hell was supposed to be soloable as well... but as far as I remember uber tristram was hard as fuck and mostly hammerdins and smiteadins had an easier time... i guess inferno difficulty will be ~ like uber tristram bosses! So I guess we'll be able to solo it but it will be 100x easier with a good group setup!
Everyone flames me whenever I say that I have a barb build that focuses on "tanking" but still does damage and supports the team. Or when I say that the monk is an amazing support class. But if Inferno is supposed to be hard as hell (actually a lot harder than Hell) then I think a group that has support and "tank" roles isn't too far fetched. Either way, I'm going to leave this here.
Oh ya, and people talking about how this is a single player game at it's heart, I'm pretty sure there's this cool function Blizzard put in called switching skills and runes. All it would take is but 30 seconds and you'll be swapped over to your solo play spec and out of your group support/tank/whatever spec.
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My place really was here. I was too foolish and stubborn to notice. But, what I truly hoped for then was here. Why do I always realize it When I've already lost it.
By all logic that is being presented if you need group roles then this can't be soloed unless they make multiplayer that much harder which would also be silly since nobody would ever co-op unless they wanted additional challenge... Seriously if you want to make a role character go ahead but I definitely will not.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
This is why I don't believe the people that say that they want someone tanky and someone that can heal in their group make ups. Sure, the barb might tank some of it but like Stabsey said, there's no threat table, nothing is stopping monsters from wandering off to fight the other 3 players, especially when that barb needs to gtfo from almost dying. To me, it seems like it's just best that everyone goes the straight dps route (of course while having some defensive skills, but not a straight tank)
Most people are missing the point. You wont NEED to have the "holy trinity "Ok or predefined roles to clear inferno or be successful. But if you and friends/allies take a minute to plan out some balanced skills in your parties builds, you will most likely have a way smoother time progressing over people just doing there own thing.
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Any comments appreciated, or am I just the only person that kind of noticed this?
Edit: Sorry if it seems a bit garbled, long day of school and was kind of a spur of the moment thing :Thumbs Up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xGDL6QVL-8
Great video, after about 2-3 years of WoW i'd have to agree with this 100%.
And no, my idea isn't so much as a holy trinity, but a blurred line between DPS, CC, and Tanking. No class does any one job perfectly, just in their different way with lines blurred on either side.
True, but I'm talking specifically about a 4 person group, and the different things they may want, or even need to do, this is, after all, the theorycrafting section, correct?
I agree, hopefully the mechanic allows any group to make it to atleast inferno. I highly doubt a bunch of Wizards and WDs can take on inferno :S. And hopefully a random group of mediocre players can make it past hell without too much difficulty. Of course I hope they make inferno as difficult as it sounds.
I found the video the other day when researching Guild Wars 2. Which, by the way, doesn't have any healing class. Every class gets a personal heal, but besides that, there are only group oriented buffs/debuffs. I believe some might get a group HoT, but it has a long timer so cannot be used as a dedicated healer class.
So awesome! I really hope that game, and D3, play out as intended and are amazing!
I find it weird sitting in a lobby with a crummy little chat window and that's all the social I get.
However if the whole party has a build that can solo, it will also will work in a group as everyone can handle themselfs.
I think D3 is open to all styles.
From my play throughs of the beta and what I've read, I believe the game will be completely playable with any class/skill combo. Heck you could run with 4 of the same class. Of course 4 Wizards spamming only Ray of Frost will proabably not do well in Inferno
What I'm getting at is that people will not really need to worry about class/skill comp to be able to complete content. Will it be done? Of course. Will it be needed? I doubt it (with in reason of course).
Honestly, I'm hoping that is NOT the case, I thinks its a little too forgiving in inferno than what inferno is supposed to be. Up to hell, i hope its easy as spamming buttons and my grandmother can do it, but I'm hoping inferno takes real skill, and real character comps to sucessfully farm. I want it to be a fun, unforgiving system, if that's possible.
I've read a lot of people's posts about the monk - most of them want to play it without being pressured to become a support class, which is rather unlikely i would say since specifically the monk has a biiig array of spells, which are both offensive and defensive! I guess time will tell... In the mean time I'll be planning my monk's specs!
However, if they live up to the hype, that there won't be any derping around past maybe NM, Hell is supposed to be as difficult as hell was in D2, with Inferno being even harder that's the whole point. Sure you can still out level it, so after you've beaten it you'll have an easier time, but it won't be something that you can get through smashing keyboard to face. At least that's what they've implied so far.
I do think that groups that follow the tank/support/DPS guideline will be possible, but I think that if you're going to be playing with random people more than a set group, that you should go for a solo build, it will take coordination in order to really be successful with that sort of a group, but I also think that if done right they will have a faster killing speed, and higher survival rate.
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http://www.diablofan...143#entry782143
Oh ya, and people talking about how this is a single player game at it's heart, I'm pretty sure there's this cool function Blizzard put in called switching skills and runes. All it would take is but 30 seconds and you'll be swapped over to your solo play spec and out of your group support/tank/whatever spec.