On normal i allways kill bosses via iron maiden + clay golem after all the skely's get killed. Also, some points in summon resist will help your minions to resist the massive damage done by diablo, baal and mephisto. Later those points becomes quite useless since your skellys can kill anything w/o summon resist and the skill scales pretty bad with 10+ points (and you can reach 10 with items). Still, 5~10 points will help you alot in early levels and since skellymancers have like 40 points left to spend, those points used to make your low lvl life easier won't hurt a bit (unless you plan to get nova).
I wish the necromancer summon tree were more balanced. The only skills that truely worth more then one point is raise skeleton/skeleton mastery.
I did a little bit of math to help people find out which skill to use. Bone Spear vs. Bone Spirit. I am doing the calculations based on Spear, Spirit, Wall, Prison, and Teeth being maxed.
First up, Bone Spear.
It pierces and has lower mana cost per shot than Bone Spirit.
It doesn't have to be targeted to hit, but doesn't home in.
And has a higher Damage to Mana cost ratio.
Here are the damage calculations.
Average Damage: 1306.5
Mana cost per shot: 11.7
1306.5/11.7 = 111.667 damage per point of mana.
Bone Spirit.
One target and homes in on them.
Doesn't need a specified target.
Damage calculations.
Average Damage: 2056
Mana cost per shot: 21.5
2056/21.5 = 95.628 damage per point of mana.
As you can see, Bone Spear does more damage per point and is better for PvM. If your not as concerned with mana usage, then Spirit is the one for you as it does more damage than spear. And with enough points, Spear will do more damage per shot. Maybe I should put something like this on the Wiki.
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Actually both skills are veyr good (teeths are good too!).
For PvM i really use Spear most of the time. Teeths is used to kill very low HP mobs (fallen and last act imps basically) and spirit i use to kill bosses and super uniques.]
Also, the travel speed of bonepsear is faster, wich also increase it's tatical value in pvp!
Personally, I would take HOTO over those because you will be using corspe explosion more than anything else. For +3 and resistance, FCR. You just need your merc to kill 1 mob then its all over for this group.
Max block due to teleporting.
Move points in mages to bone wall(bone armor) so you can absorb more damage. Max CE, put 5-10 points in amplify. You need to keep urself alive when teleporting or standing. Mages wont do anything greatly. Revives over Mages. I would take Bul Kathos for life instead of mana. I would take Chancie glove for MF, war traveler for MF.. marrowwalk- +1 skeleton mastery isnt big deal. Dont need poison nova because corpse explosion will kill anything.. If you plan to use poison nova.. whats the point of ur summon/merc? I would have merc use Fort and infinity(Increases more damage for CE as well)so your merc can kill fast so you can CE in no time.
Just my 2 cent. I have played many different summon necro build.. this is best one for me.
How do skelemancers handle bosses? I have always wanted play one but always got frustrated with bosses and loosing all of my skeleys in a few secs and then having to leave just to get more corpses.
Once you maxxed 20 skele/mastery and got some revives.. you can do ANY boss no problem.
Once I get to worldstone chamber for Baal... I set up TP on him and go to act 4 river of flame to get urdar or durance of hate. Then Baal will die in no time.
I just think that this dicotomy between elemental and physical damage fuck up the whole build. Amp. Damager vs. LR, Infinity vs. Concentration, Brambles vs. Enigma, Beast vs. Hoto...
I'm trying an summon build 100% based on elemental damage. Mages, infinity, poison nova, bones for tanking. I'm certain that this is no match for a pure poison or skellymancer, but it's just for fun anyway.
I think you will be fine with the build. I would limit the amount of Poison Mages to about 1. I find Teleport is important so you can focus the firepower of the mages to a single target if possible and to make sure they stay with you. If you move and the mages are still fighting they have a habit of not moving with you and they may not automatically teleport to your location.
You are free for most mercs. I think the best merc would be the act 2 or act 5 merc to tank.
A good merc might be act 1 cold rogue if you have Ice runeword. The downside is that you may not have that many corpses to summon and to CE with.
The Act 3 mercs can be used as well since you will be based on increasing the elemental damage. You will have at least 1 tank with a Golem and 1 point into Skeletons with +skills will add a few skeletons to tank a few hits.
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Is a summonmancer's points in Bone Armor worth it? This is merely PvM character (obviously) and for MF finding. The fact that I'm pretty well off twinked with good gear and I guess good block (never got how much Dex I needed to be honest) it seems that it might benefit my guy to distribute the points into increasing the killing speed/defense of my summons, or perhaps curses. I could be wrong though, I'm only level 50 at the moment in Nightmare.
Oh, by the way, I got most of my build from Fishy. But I am also wondering how effective Iron Golems would be in the current patch...
"5) Iron Golem: Interesting if you have access to a steady supply of high-end items. Using the IK Maul to create Iron Golems worked fine for me when I was running Baal. (IK Maul has ~40% Crushing Blow and is very easy to find. At any rate, I found them faster than my golem used them up)"
I do not really see the point investing in Bone Armor for a summoner. You have tanks to soak up the damage. The only thing that can get through are arrows/javelins that can be absorbed by BA or a Shield.
I never worried about blocking for a summoner. See the reason I gave above for why. I would rather place points into Vitality and maybe a few points into Mana if you are an Hybrid (Summoner/Caster). Quite often my Necro Summoners do not use a shield but use a ranged weapon to help with the killing. I use a wand and shield for the summoning part.
[edit]
Iron Golems can be good if you give them good gear. Some of the best gear would be cheap weapons or an item that has an aura when active but they can be very expensive. The problem is keeping the Golem from dying or disappearing when they get too far from you and suffer the dreaded transporter glitch when they try to teleport to you. If you have Enigma or the skill teleport then you want to use teleport as your main form of movement. For the most part I just use Gumby(Clay Golem) since it has slow effect that helps with keeping skeletons alive.
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I will have to find a place to invest those points from bone wall (since I don't need bone armor). Mages are pretty much useless, but I may take the spread-out approach in curses/Golem. I am worried about not having max block though when it comes to teleporting in places in Hell.
I do not think Mages are useless. Conviction and Lower Resist can make them deal some damage. Poison Mages do not deal much damage but can help against life regeneration. The other Mages are alright. Mages are best if you have Teleport to help focus their damage.
As for teleporting I would use dim vision in the area first before teleporting there. You can also just use baby steps for teleporting if you are uncertain of an area. If enemies are around the Skeletons and the Act 2 or Act merc will be rushing to meet them. I try not to Teleport into an unknown room.
The only issue is the stair traps.
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I do not think Mages are useless. Conviction and Lower Resist can make them deal some damage. Poison Mages do not deal much damage but can help against life regeneration. The other Mages are alright. Mages are best if you have Teleport to help focus their damage.
As for teleporting I would use dim vision in the area first before teleporting there. You can also just use baby steps for teleporting if you are uncertain of an area. If enemies are around the Skeletons and the Act 2 or Act merc will be rushing to meet them. I try not to Teleport into an unknown room.
The only issue is the stair traps.
Dang, everyone has differing opinions. A lot of people say that the damage bonuses for mages aren't significant enough like the F1shy guide. I am really afraid to touch my stats now. Having more vitality seems nice but I wouldn't really be able to take too many hits in Hell anyways. It just seems that max block or bone armor + teleporting would be really helpful.
with 1 pt into mages and bone armour, it should be enough for most pvm if you summon correctly and have a good setup. if you have bone armour you wont need mb as much. when u tele on monsters a good skele army can do 33k+ if they hit.
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I wish the necromancer summon tree were more balanced. The only skills that truely worth more then one point is raise skeleton/skeleton mastery.
along with poison dagger...
First up, Bone Spear.
It pierces and has lower mana cost per shot than Bone Spirit.
It doesn't have to be targeted to hit, but doesn't home in.
And has a higher Damage to Mana cost ratio.
Here are the damage calculations.
Average Damage: 1306.5
Mana cost per shot: 11.7
1306.5/11.7 = 111.667 damage per point of mana.
Bone Spirit.
One target and homes in on them.
Doesn't need a specified target.
Damage calculations.
Average Damage: 2056
Mana cost per shot: 21.5
2056/21.5 = 95.628 damage per point of mana.
As you can see, Bone Spear does more damage per point and is better for PvM. If your not as concerned with mana usage, then Spirit is the one for you as it does more damage than spear. And with enough points, Spear will do more damage per shot. Maybe I should put something like this on the Wiki.
For PvM i really use Spear most of the time. Teeths is used to kill very low HP mobs (fallen and last act imps basically) and spirit i use to kill bosses and super uniques.]
Also, the travel speed of bonepsear is faster, wich also increase it's tatical value in pvp!
Max block due to teleporting.
Move points in mages to bone wall(bone armor) so you can absorb more damage. Max CE, put 5-10 points in amplify. You need to keep urself alive when teleporting or standing. Mages wont do anything greatly. Revives over Mages. I would take Bul Kathos for life instead of mana. I would take Chancie glove for MF, war traveler for MF.. marrowwalk- +1 skeleton mastery isnt big deal. Dont need poison nova because corpse explosion will kill anything.. If you plan to use poison nova.. whats the point of ur summon/merc? I would have merc use Fort and infinity(Increases more damage for CE as well)so your merc can kill fast so you can CE in no time.
Just my 2 cent. I have played many different summon necro build.. this is best one for me.
Once you maxxed 20 skele/mastery and got some revives.. you can do ANY boss no problem.
Once I get to worldstone chamber for Baal... I set up TP on him and go to act 4 river of flame to get urdar or durance of hate. Then Baal will die in no time.
Yes.
However I would use them in bone wall for bone armor bonus. 1 point in revive is enough.
So if I do 20 raise skel, skel mastery, and CE, how much into Bone Armour and bone wall?
Ah, so should I bother with any into prison as well?
I'm trying an summon build 100% based on elemental damage. Mages, infinity, poison nova, bones for tanking. I'm certain that this is no match for a pure poison or skellymancer, but it's just for fun anyway.
You are free for most mercs. I think the best merc would be the act 2 or act 5 merc to tank.
A good merc might be act 1 cold rogue if you have Ice runeword. The downside is that you may not have that many corpses to summon and to CE with.
The Act 3 mercs can be used as well since you will be based on increasing the elemental damage. You will have at least 1 tank with a Golem and 1 point into Skeletons with +skills will add a few skeletons to tank a few hits.
Oh, by the way, I got most of my build from Fishy. But I am also wondering how effective Iron Golems would be in the current patch...
"5) Iron Golem: Interesting if you have access to a steady supply of high-end items. Using the IK Maul to create Iron Golems worked fine for me when I was running Baal. (IK Maul has ~40% Crushing Blow and is very easy to find. At any rate, I found them faster than my golem used them up)"
I never worried about blocking for a summoner. See the reason I gave above for why. I would rather place points into Vitality and maybe a few points into Mana if you are an Hybrid (Summoner/Caster). Quite often my Necro Summoners do not use a shield but use a ranged weapon to help with the killing. I use a wand and shield for the summoning part.
[edit]
Iron Golems can be good if you give them good gear. Some of the best gear would be cheap weapons or an item that has an aura when active but they can be very expensive. The problem is keeping the Golem from dying or disappearing when they get too far from you and suffer the dreaded transporter glitch when they try to teleport to you. If you have Enigma or the skill teleport then you want to use teleport as your main form of movement. For the most part I just use Gumby(Clay Golem) since it has slow effect that helps with keeping skeletons alive.
As for teleporting I would use dim vision in the area first before teleporting there. You can also just use baby steps for teleporting if you are uncertain of an area. If enemies are around the Skeletons and the Act 2 or Act merc will be rushing to meet them. I try not to Teleport into an unknown room.
The only issue is the stair traps.
Dang, everyone has differing opinions. A lot of people say that the damage bonuses for mages aren't significant enough like the F1shy guide. I am really afraid to touch my stats now. Having more vitality seems nice but I wouldn't really be able to take too many hits in Hell anyways. It just seems that max block or bone armor + teleporting would be really helpful.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."