So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
I mean lets be real about D2 for a second shall we? So you're level 90+ on almost every character.. You've already maxed out all the PvE content in the game 8x3 = 24+ times AT THE VERY LEAST! I played the game for 5-6 years and you can imagine how many times I beat the game over and over to get loot. So in terms of story line, original content, and really anything else to the game it's over with pretty quickly or at least Diablo 2 was. First run through is nice and takes a while, everything after that you're rushing a character through the game to get to a point where you can farm bosses for loot, to trade, then to PvP. Unless you play offline which takes a lot longer and can be done for a personal goal but that has again ZERO effect on PvP so it's irrelivent. Anywho the PvE aspect of this game has been covered in that Diablo 3 will most likely have a great story line (Played the Beta, It was awesome for me and I go into it) but once the game is beaten, (yes I know Blizz said I will die a lot and Inferno mode will be incredibly hard and most likely very fun but..) you just beat end game content over and over for more loot so you can..
TRADE! That's right. That's the other part of this fantastic game which was so incredibly fun! Blizzard has already managed to ruin that in Diablo 3 making items purchasable through the game (Yes I know websites would of been selling items anyways but doing this encourages every 12 year old with a credit card to have FAT LOOTS when all they did was drop 100 extra bucks on the game making them no better then anyone else which imo is complete bullshit to promote in a game BUT ANYWAYS!) You beat the hardest end game bosses for more loot! With this loot you trade it to get better loot! So you can kill bosses faster to get loot FASTER! So you can either end the game here for yourself and trade all day (not hating, tradings cool if you wanna trade all day but there's more to the game) or you can use that nicely aquired loot too..
KILL OTHER PLAYERS. Now onto the final stage of what Diablo 2 was. I played D2 for a long, long time. It the game I've returned too most in my entire life. Everytime I came back to the game it went exactly like how I wrote it down. PvE to get Items, then trade those items, so I can be good at PvP. To do anything otherwise seemed.. Pointless..? PvP was the ultimate end game in D2 if you really think about it.
I mean really, what else is there too the game? Kill stuff for rewards, then trade rewards for better stuff, then try and build the best character for PvP. Now you might say I have a flawed view of the game or I am just being biased towards PvE because I was an avid fan of PvP and still em but I will tell you, you're completely wrong if you think that.
I LOVE a good storyline. I LOVED D2's storyline. I watched every cinematic countless times because I just enjoyed the game so much in every aspect.I came back to the game not only because I loved it's PvP but because I loved playing Diablo the game so much. To not take advantage of what Diablo 2 had to offer was just silly, and still is silly in my eyes. There's three things you can do in D2. PvE for Loot. Trade Loot. PvP. That's it. You can choose to do 1/3 or 2/3 and limit the games full potential but I chose to do 3/3 and I enjoyed D2 more then any game in my entire life.
So when you have people spamming "WAHH WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ESPORT!" or "PVP WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE PVE CONTENT BECAUSE BLIZZARD WILL HAVE TO TRY AND BALANCE IT AND PUT RESOURCES ONTO SOMETHING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN!" I'd call you a selfish person then. If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential. I want D3 to be a kick ass storyline driven RPG as much as anyone does. In fact I am sick of all this PvP games I've been playing lately and I've been waiting for a great game with a great storyline to come out and I cannot wait for D3. Once I am done beating the game in 2-3 months I will want to move on from the RPG aspect and start PvPing again. Except I can't because it's not going to be supported what so ever..
The game will be completely imbalanced most likely for PvP. (I am aware D2 was imbalanced but D3 has the knowledge, the tools (the pve and pvp balancing tool which YES THEY DO HAVE!), and the time to make it balanced for the PvP community. Blizzard is a big boy company now since D2's release and they can handle this shit if they so choose too they just simply aren't which again, blows my mind) The game will have very little support for PvP compared to the PvE aspect and won't have any ranked system for players to go up against each other and see who's the best. To not promote or care about one of the three BIGGEST aspects let alone the ONLY three aspects of D2 makes me lose faith in Blizzard as a company and dims the light PC gaming as a whole as Blizzard has produced the best games I've ever played in the past, but it seems the future holds a different story for me and Blizzards relationship.
Supporting PvP supports the Diablo community. Supporting PvP as an eSport makes the game more popular then you can imagine. You want more PvE content? Well if the games an incredibly popular eSport it will give Blizz the money and motiviation to keep it comming with more great content for us. Supporting PvP just adds to the game. I think that's the biggest point here is that adding and supporting PvP just adds more content and things to do in the game which to my knowledge isn't a bad thing what so ever. I don't think I can stress that enough that it only adds to the greatness of what Diablo 3 can be.
So PvE'ers I am not sure what your problem is other then you want all the focus to be on PvE game for your own selfish needs because you've all made it so clear you don't dare about PvP in your game. PvP only makes Diablo 3 stronger in EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME and if you don't want to support that aspect guess what.. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO! Just go kill monsters and shit to trade over and over and let the community of PvP'ers be happy killing each other with that aquired loot.
PvE'ers by not supporting PvP you take away from the game, and most of all you take away from the community. Remember that when bashing PvP.
Blizzard by not supporting PvP the way it should be supported in Diablo 3 you take away from your game, and you let down the community. Remember that when neglecting a major aspect of what made your game popular and what kept people coming back to play it.
So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
Did read most of it, but there's a line in your first paragraph that sums up my argument nicely. Note, I'm not against PvP really, but I would want Blizzard to at least keep the two separated. I know the whole comparing to WoW is getting tiresome, but there's something to take note of in the constant struggle for rebalancing skills to match both PvE and PvP that marks its lengthy history of patch notes. Lately we've seen some improvement in this with skills being split into PvP and PvE components, and consequently with PvP being enclosed in instances separate from the PvE world, making this split technically possible. I reckon this won't be much different in D3, since PvP is in a closed off arena as well, but my biggest concern, and one I guess many share with me, is that PvE's skills and character balance will be (negatively) affected by Blizzard's attempt to balance them for PvP.
Fortunately for me, and probably less so for you, Blizzard disagrees with your perspective that PvP is the biggest thing in endgame Diablo. And with them, a lot of players do.
To me, PvP is something I just loathe to do. I don't mind the functionality, but it's just a terrible terrible experience for me. To copy your math: Trading items and killing PvE stuff would ammount to 2/2 for me. PvP may be an aspect of the game to play, but it's one I just plain don't like and never have. Again, this doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game, but your claim that the game's experience is incomplete without it, and that it's the only logical endpoint of the game's progression, is entirely subjective.
Except the game was about slaughtering monsters to collect loot, PvP was an afterthought. Your post makes you come off as a jerk. People just want the core game released, and for PvE not to be balanced around PvP changes (Skill X hits players too hard; nerf) etc. You are basically saying, "I want this and because you don't like it you're a jerk". You're whining.
Well we never called it PVE it was always Mfing and PvM.
Hello. My name is Mirok and I'm a PVE jerk.
So... I'm sorry but I didn't read your post, too long and too much of unnecesary letters and words. You see you can't change anything with your ranting cause there is too much balance to be disturbed just to satisfy those few who actually play Diablo series only because of PVP. Diablo is much much more.
If those two worlds don't collide (when they change this skill that is too overpowered in PVP and that is skill is a necessity in PvM) then who cares. Go ahead PvP yourself to death as far as I'm concerned.
In Diablo World PvP is fun when you have nothing else to do.
eSport? Always found that funny. "Sport" with extremely big quotation marks. But oh well, chess is a mind game sport also...
You can't really go around saying "If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential"
you must be kinda ignorant, right?
This is up for each individual to decide. Someone might not like pvp what so ever, just did a little on it, focused on mfing, maybe just getting rich as hell, then THAT was his massive part of d2, while pvp was not.
Allright, lets say you are a big PVP FAN, you have your gear, then you claim pvp is a MASSIVE part, but if its massive, that would kinda mean that Pve/Mfing, whatever you would like to call it aint such a big part anymore?
I did some PvP, not to much. But enough. I prefer just trying to get rich, that was more fun to me, than try to murder som hammerdin that teleports around with 75% block and 95 all reistance.
But I don't judge, we are all different, I understand peoples urge to pvp.
You will get it, just you wait.
You pvp-nuts these days think all games should be an esport. It doesnt work like that.
Let me quote a good friend of mine
"If you try to make an esport you just end up with a semi assfest like sc2 turns out to be, it works but is kept alive by charity pretty much. You need to let it form on its own, jeeze"
Except the game was about slaughtering monsters to collect loot, PvP was an afterthought. Your post makes you come off as a jerk. People just want the core game released, and for PvE not to be balanced around PvP changes (Skill X hits players too hard; nerf) etc. You are basically saying, "I want this and because you don't like it you're a jerk". You're whining.
It is a shame PvP was cut, but hopefully they will have it added for when we are still playing in Hell/Inferno.
I like both PvE & PvP as they are both enjoyable. PvE is nice when you're hungover like a bastard just wanting to kill stuff and PvP is a nice change of scenery.
It's simple. AI does not behave like a good player. So in an action based game, skills that work in PvE, will soemtimes be impossible to connect with in PvP. Some utility skills completely cahnge in terms of usefulness too. The problem this leaves, is that PvE and PvP are so completely different that you can't balance for both.
PvP will be in the game, its jsut notthe focus of balance. And really how balanced was PvP ever in Diablo II? I really don't know. I like cooperative play, so I never was very familair with the PVP aspect of Diablo II. But I was under the impression that it wasn't very evenly balanced either. Certain classes and builds will rise to the top, as usual. Also, since most of the PvP events are going to be team based, I think that will expand the options and leave it so that there are several viable builds for teams.
Then there is the RMAH. How can you make it an esport, when money has potential to be a bigger factor than skill? Look at Starcraft and Warcraft series games. Everyone starts the match the same. Look at chess. Both sides start equal. If you could throw 100s of dollars at Starcraft to buy in-game upgrades, would anyone take it seriously?
In short, PvP shouldn't be any less fun than Diablo II. As always you will be leveling up, then getting gear, then if you get bored and want to see how your character does in PvP, or build another character for it, you can. I just don't see the problem?
Hmm, I doubt you would be PvPing the moment the game comes out anyway. You said it yourself. Your farm farm farm for gear in order to PvP. This generally takes some time, since you're gonna wanna farm inferno gear I suppose. During that "some time", I'm sure Blizzard will have released the PvP patch.
I fail to see your reason for ranting, short of ranting about other people ranting. Which seems quite redundant and quite frankly a bit stupid?
Alright; I was there, during D2's golden age and I have to say people that keep ranting on about how perfect it was and how it made the game are fucking all stoned or something.
D2's PvP WAS NOT THAT MAJOR! It was okay for a couple of months and that was that. I am sorry you feel so butt-hurt over this but all the PvPer's are just being stubborn morons (see I can generalize and insult a massive group just like you can, but I don't need a wall of text to do it).
I have no problem with PvP; it can be fun, but I do have a problem with turning D3 into an Esport, which it isn't and never will be.
To sum your post up...your an idiot. In D2's "glory age" PvP was very much alive and kicking and definitly major. Maybe randoms like you or other kids in pub games who thought their sigons set or tals set was something to brag about didn't see this but everyone else did.
PvP is THE end game of Diablo. like the TS stated, you can only run the same content so many times, you can MF for meaningless gear only so many times, you can trade all day if you want and make a profit but other then that it is PvP. People traded, MF, and leveled TO PvP, majority sure as hell did not do those to kill easy ass monsters that a level 9 with proper gear could.
And you people always trying to bring esports and nerfs and buffs and WoW into this, seriously? You have no idea and I mean NO idea what PvP in Diablo obviously is. This is why Pvp is getting destroyed in Diablo 3 because it is being developed by a guy who has NO idea what PvP in Diablo is. Not ONCE and I mean ONCE, in my 10+ years of playing Diablo PvP, did I hear 1 person cry for esports, cry for nerfs, cry for buffs. NOT ONCE, do you kids understand this? This is not WoW, if the developer sucks that bad at making a game that every class has a pro and a con and is not S+++ tier then he needs to be fired.
Alright; I was there, during D2's golden age and I have to say people that keep ranting on about how perfect it was and how it made the game are fucking all stoned or something.
D2's PvP WAS NOT THAT MAJOR! It was okay for a couple of months and that was that. I am sorry you feel so butt-hurt over this but all the PvPer's are just being stubborn morons (see I can generalize and insult a massive group just like you can, but I don't need a wall of text to do it).
I have no problem with PvP; it can be fun, but I do have a problem with turning D3 into an Esport, which it isn't and never will be.
Not ONCE and I mean ONCE, in my 10+ years of playing Diablo PvP, did I hear 1 person cry for esports, cry for nerfs, cry for buffs. NOT ONCE, do you kids understand this? This is not WoW, if the developer sucks that bad at making a game that every class has a pro and a con and is not S+++ tier then he needs to be fired.
The reason you didn't hear that whining is that WoW (And such games) wasn't around back then. It's relatively new, and lets face it, Diablo3 is getting the WoW crowd. And the WoW crowd whines. A lot. And what do they whine for? Buffs, nerf, eSports and probably a whole lot more.
More importantly, why do they whine? Because class X raped them in PvP, and that makes them unbalanced.
People didn't whine for balance before, because no one cared (enough). It wasn't _that_ competitive. But now is another story. I feel like Blizzard dug their own grave with WoW arena, because now that everyone knows about it, the people who liked it will want something similar to it, while the people that hate it wont like to have it at all.
I predict this will be a problem for Blizzards future MMOs/RPGs.
I don't understand what the problem is - PvP will be added in a future patch, and there will be arenas, ladders, etc. It just won't be supported like an eSport, it'll be supported like it was in D2 - something fun to do to take a break from PvE
I don't understand what the problem is - PvP will be added in a future patch, and there will be arenas, ladders, etc. It just won't be supported like an eSport, it'll be supported like it was in D2 - something fun to do to take a break from PvE
I don't understand what the problem is - PvP will be added in a future patch, and there will be arenas, ladders, etc. It just won't be supported like an eSport, it'll be supported like it was in D2 - something fun to do to take a break from PvE
Exactly! This whole argument to turn Diablo 3 PvP into an esport, based on the idea that Diablo 2 PvP was important is illogical. It's like saying "Diablo 2's PvP was so good, that I won't be satsifed with something similair being offered in D3. Instead the whole game should be balanced around it, and it should be an esport."
I don't understand what the problem is - PvP will be added in a future patch, and there will be arenas, ladders, etc. It just won't be supported like an eSport, it'll be supported like it was in D2 - something fun to do to take a break from PvE
Exactly! This whole argument to turn Diablo 3 PvP into an esport, based on the idea that Diablo 2 PvP was important is illogical. It's like saying "Diablo 2's PvP was so good, that I won't be satsifed with something similair being offered in D3. Instead the whole game should be balanced around it, and it should be an esport."
Except that no one is saying that? Also unless this changed, there will be no ladders, no stats, just achievements which boil down to nothing. Arena is nowhere near anything like what we had in Diablo 2.
While I agree that the WoW crowd is a bunch of children who whine over anything, I don't see many of them staying with Diablo or even handling the PvP period because PvP in WoW is childs play to Diablo. There was no need for buffs or nerfs in Diablo 2, every class had an obvious con and an obvious pro, how good you were with your character determined how obvious said con and pro were. It was like a giant rock paper scissor game where if you were good you could manipulate your rock to beat paper, it was an uphill battle but very possible, especially with kids like the ones in this thread and forum dueling you.
@VladDracul OP was basically saying that end game won't work without some vaible, enjoyable form of PvP. I think that D3 can deliver that. It's jsut that the game is partially gear based, and there is an RMAH for gear, so its never going to be an extremely serious esport. Maybe there should be ladders, but Blizzard probably decided against it to keep from accidentally implying that they are trying to make it a serious, balanced, competitive event. I'm fine with it either way, and I doubt many PvE players would complain about the existence of a ladder. Making blanket statements that we are all "jerks" is extremely unfair.
The only thing most PvE seem picky about, is the idea that when it comes to balance, PvE has to take priority. It's the core of the game and has taken design and balance emphasis in both previous games (or it seems so from my perspective).
@Edit - Not that you called anyone a jerk. That was in reference to the OP. This probably isn't the most coherent post ever. Just skip it if you want. LOL
As someone said it is PVM not PVE. This game isn't like wow lol.
I don't like the pvp in diablo because it is an HnS, so basicaly it is a game based on PVM. If you wanna do serious pvp, just play wow, where you have to use all your spells to be real good.
@VladDracul - You and jake (and now AntiRepublican) are the whiniest ragers on this freaking forum. If the word PvP ever comes up I am certain to see one... and or both of you on here talking about how you guys are the gods of diablo 2 pvp (e-peen flaunting) and about how important pvp was.
Diablo 2 was NOT a PvP game... it was a PvE with PvP thrown in. PvP was NOT major... it was an occasional when really bored thing... and it was horrible. Matches were always won by the person with the better gear... not by skill... and to even come in entry level you had to be "rich".
Diablo 3 would have been the same thing if they didn't promise to matchmake based on a combination of skill and gear...
So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
Wow, quite a small one you got there mate... does it hurt so much? It's hard to comprehend Blizzard's line of thinking huh!?!
Anyway, to ease your pain even a little, Diablo was originally designed as a PvM game and was just later on upgraded to have PvP.
Besides, PvP would still be in on a later date as a patch, so I don't think you'll have anything more to worry about sonny. Don't rack your brain too much or it might get more painful for you "to see people against PvP in this game".
Here is the Blizzard Blue Poster post last March 9, 2012:
As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.
While we work on making sure PvP lives up to its full potential, we hope you’ll find some consolation in the fact that soon, you’ll be having a blast leveling characters, finding items, learning the classes, and perfecting builds…and that when the Arenas do arrive, you’ll be all the better prepared for battle.
When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We’ll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team’s skulls.
We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we’re in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.
We’ll have a lot more info to share on the PvP system in the future, and we look forward to the moment we can get the game into your hands.
Have to say as well that's an awesome, take no prisoners, rant that puts the pvp into posting. Good job Elementz!
Well, I dunno, all I feel he's doing is creating more animosity towards the PvP crowd. But hey, all PR is good PR right, even if it hints of perhaps more whinging and whining from the PvP community in terms of "waaaah Blizzard neglects balancing PvP in Diablo3, waaaah"... ^^
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I mean lets be real about D2 for a second shall we? So you're level 90+ on almost every character.. You've already maxed out all the PvE content in the game 8x3 = 24+ times AT THE VERY LEAST! I played the game for 5-6 years and you can imagine how many times I beat the game over and over to get loot. So in terms of story line, original content, and really anything else to the game it's over with pretty quickly or at least Diablo 2 was. First run through is nice and takes a while, everything after that you're rushing a character through the game to get to a point where you can farm bosses for loot, to trade, then to PvP. Unless you play offline which takes a lot longer and can be done for a personal goal but that has again ZERO effect on PvP so it's irrelivent. Anywho the PvE aspect of this game has been covered in that Diablo 3 will most likely have a great story line (Played the Beta, It was awesome for me and I go into it) but once the game is beaten, (yes I know Blizz said I will die a lot and Inferno mode will be incredibly hard and most likely very fun but..) you just beat end game content over and over for more loot so you can..
TRADE! That's right. That's the other part of this fantastic game which was so incredibly fun! Blizzard has already managed to ruin that in Diablo 3 making items purchasable through the game (Yes I know websites would of been selling items anyways but doing this encourages every 12 year old with a credit card to have FAT LOOTS when all they did was drop 100 extra bucks on the game making them no better then anyone else which imo is complete bullshit to promote in a game BUT ANYWAYS!) You beat the hardest end game bosses for more loot! With this loot you trade it to get better loot! So you can kill bosses faster to get loot FASTER! So you can either end the game here for yourself and trade all day (not hating, tradings cool if you wanna trade all day but there's more to the game) or you can use that nicely aquired loot too..
KILL OTHER PLAYERS. Now onto the final stage of what Diablo 2 was. I played D2 for a long, long time. It the game I've returned too most in my entire life. Everytime I came back to the game it went exactly like how I wrote it down. PvE to get Items, then trade those items, so I can be good at PvP. To do anything otherwise seemed.. Pointless..? PvP was the ultimate end game in D2 if you really think about it.
I mean really, what else is there too the game? Kill stuff for rewards, then trade rewards for better stuff, then try and build the best character for PvP. Now you might say I have a flawed view of the game or I am just being biased towards PvE because I was an avid fan of PvP and still em but I will tell you, you're completely wrong if you think that.
I LOVE a good storyline. I LOVED D2's storyline. I watched every cinematic countless times because I just enjoyed the game so much in every aspect.I came back to the game not only because I loved it's PvP but because I loved playing Diablo the game so much. To not take advantage of what Diablo 2 had to offer was just silly, and still is silly in my eyes. There's three things you can do in D2. PvE for Loot. Trade Loot. PvP. That's it. You can choose to do 1/3 or 2/3 and limit the games full potential but I chose to do 3/3 and I enjoyed D2 more then any game in my entire life.
So when you have people spamming "WAHH WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ESPORT!" or "PVP WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE PVE CONTENT BECAUSE BLIZZARD WILL HAVE TO TRY AND BALANCE IT AND PUT RESOURCES ONTO SOMETHING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN!" I'd call you a selfish person then. If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential. I want D3 to be a kick ass storyline driven RPG as much as anyone does. In fact I am sick of all this PvP games I've been playing lately and I've been waiting for a great game with a great storyline to come out and I cannot wait for D3. Once I am done beating the game in 2-3 months I will want to move on from the RPG aspect and start PvPing again. Except I can't because it's not going to be supported what so ever..
The game will be completely imbalanced most likely for PvP. (I am aware D2 was imbalanced but D3 has the knowledge, the tools (the pve and pvp balancing tool which YES THEY DO HAVE!), and the time to make it balanced for the PvP community. Blizzard is a big boy company now since D2's release and they can handle this shit if they so choose too they just simply aren't which again, blows my mind) The game will have very little support for PvP compared to the PvE aspect and won't have any ranked system for players to go up against each other and see who's the best. To not promote or care about one of the three BIGGEST aspects let alone the ONLY three aspects of D2 makes me lose faith in Blizzard as a company and dims the light PC gaming as a whole as Blizzard has produced the best games I've ever played in the past, but it seems the future holds a different story for me and Blizzards relationship.
Supporting PvP supports the Diablo community. Supporting PvP as an eSport makes the game more popular then you can imagine. You want more PvE content? Well if the games an incredibly popular eSport it will give Blizz the money and motiviation to keep it comming with more great content for us. Supporting PvP just adds to the game. I think that's the biggest point here is that adding and supporting PvP just adds more content and things to do in the game which to my knowledge isn't a bad thing what so ever. I don't think I can stress that enough that it only adds to the greatness of what Diablo 3 can be.
So PvE'ers I am not sure what your problem is other then you want all the focus to be on PvE game for your own selfish needs because you've all made it so clear you don't dare about PvP in your game. PvP only makes Diablo 3 stronger in EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME and if you don't want to support that aspect guess what.. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO! Just go kill monsters and shit to trade over and over and let the community of PvP'ers be happy killing each other with that aquired loot.
PvE'ers by not supporting PvP you take away from the game, and most of all you take away from the community. Remember that when bashing PvP.
Blizzard by not supporting PvP the way it should be supported in Diablo 3 you take away from your game, and you let down the community. Remember that when neglecting a major aspect of what made your game popular and what kept people coming back to play it.
Did read most of it, but there's a line in your first paragraph that sums up my argument nicely. Note, I'm not against PvP really, but I would want Blizzard to at least keep the two separated. I know the whole comparing to WoW is getting tiresome, but there's something to take note of in the constant struggle for rebalancing skills to match both PvE and PvP that marks its lengthy history of patch notes. Lately we've seen some improvement in this with skills being split into PvP and PvE components, and consequently with PvP being enclosed in instances separate from the PvE world, making this split technically possible. I reckon this won't be much different in D3, since PvP is in a closed off arena as well, but my biggest concern, and one I guess many share with me, is that PvE's skills and character balance will be (negatively) affected by Blizzard's attempt to balance them for PvP.
Fortunately for me, and probably less so for you, Blizzard disagrees with your perspective that PvP is the biggest thing in endgame Diablo. And with them, a lot of players do.
To me, PvP is something I just loathe to do. I don't mind the functionality, but it's just a terrible terrible experience for me. To copy your math: Trading items and killing PvE stuff would ammount to 2/2 for me. PvP may be an aspect of the game to play, but it's one I just plain don't like and never have. Again, this doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game, but your claim that the game's experience is incomplete without it, and that it's the only logical endpoint of the game's progression, is entirely subjective.
Hello. My name is Mirok and I'm a PVE jerk.
So... I'm sorry but I didn't read your post, too long and too much of unnecesary letters and words. You see you can't change anything with your ranting cause there is too much balance to be disturbed just to satisfy those few who actually play Diablo series only because of PVP. Diablo is much much more.
If those two worlds don't collide (when they change this skill that is too overpowered in PVP and that is skill is a necessity in PvM) then who cares. Go ahead PvP yourself to death as far as I'm concerned.
In Diablo World PvP is fun when you have nothing else to do.
eSport? Always found that funny. "Sport" with extremely big quotation marks. But oh well, chess is a mind game sport also...
Quoting people who understand what I'm saying.
Cheers!
I like both PvE & PvP as they are both enjoyable. PvE is nice when you're hungover like a bastard just wanting to kill stuff and PvP is a nice change of scenery.
PvP will be in the game, its jsut notthe focus of balance. And really how balanced was PvP ever in Diablo II? I really don't know. I like cooperative play, so I never was very familair with the PVP aspect of Diablo II. But I was under the impression that it wasn't very evenly balanced either. Certain classes and builds will rise to the top, as usual. Also, since most of the PvP events are going to be team based, I think that will expand the options and leave it so that there are several viable builds for teams.
Then there is the RMAH. How can you make it an esport, when money has potential to be a bigger factor than skill? Look at Starcraft and Warcraft series games. Everyone starts the match the same. Look at chess. Both sides start equal. If you could throw 100s of dollars at Starcraft to buy in-game upgrades, would anyone take it seriously?
In short, PvP shouldn't be any less fun than Diablo II. As always you will be leveling up, then getting gear, then if you get bored and want to see how your character does in PvP, or build another character for it, you can. I just don't see the problem?
I fail to see your reason for ranting, short of ranting about other people ranting. Which seems quite redundant and quite frankly a bit stupid?
Patience is a virtue!
To sum your post up...your an idiot. In D2's "glory age" PvP was very much alive and kicking and definitly major. Maybe randoms like you or other kids in pub games who thought their sigons set or tals set was something to brag about didn't see this but everyone else did.
PvP is THE end game of Diablo. like the TS stated, you can only run the same content so many times, you can MF for meaningless gear only so many times, you can trade all day if you want and make a profit but other then that it is PvP. People traded, MF, and leveled TO PvP, majority sure as hell did not do those to kill easy ass monsters that a level 9 with proper gear could.
And you people always trying to bring esports and nerfs and buffs and WoW into this, seriously? You have no idea and I mean NO idea what PvP in Diablo obviously is. This is why Pvp is getting destroyed in Diablo 3 because it is being developed by a guy who has NO idea what PvP in Diablo is. Not ONCE and I mean ONCE, in my 10+ years of playing Diablo PvP, did I hear 1 person cry for esports, cry for nerfs, cry for buffs. NOT ONCE, do you kids understand this? This is not WoW, if the developer sucks that bad at making a game that every class has a pro and a con and is not S+++ tier then he needs to be fired.
The reason you didn't hear that whining is that WoW (And such games) wasn't around back then. It's relatively new, and lets face it, Diablo3 is getting the WoW crowd. And the WoW crowd whines. A lot. And what do they whine for? Buffs, nerf, eSports and probably a whole lot more.
More importantly, why do they whine? Because class X raped them in PvP, and that makes them unbalanced.
People didn't whine for balance before, because no one cared (enough). It wasn't _that_ competitive. But now is another story. I feel like Blizzard dug their own grave with WoW arena, because now that everyone knows about it, the people who liked it will want something similar to it, while the people that hate it wont like to have it at all.
I predict this will be a problem for Blizzards future MMOs/RPGs.
EDIT: Tired, stupid typos etc.
This.
Exactly! This whole argument to turn Diablo 3 PvP into an esport, based on the idea that Diablo 2 PvP was important is illogical. It's like saying "Diablo 2's PvP was so good, that I won't be satsifed with something similair being offered in D3. Instead the whole game should be balanced around it, and it should be an esport."
While I agree that the WoW crowd is a bunch of children who whine over anything, I don't see many of them staying with Diablo or even handling the PvP period because PvP in WoW is childs play to Diablo. There was no need for buffs or nerfs in Diablo 2, every class had an obvious con and an obvious pro, how good you were with your character determined how obvious said con and pro were. It was like a giant rock paper scissor game where if you were good you could manipulate your rock to beat paper, it was an uphill battle but very possible, especially with kids like the ones in this thread and forum dueling you.
P.S.: I hate PvP i Diablo.
The only thing most PvE seem picky about, is the idea that when it comes to balance, PvE has to take priority. It's the core of the game and has taken design and balance emphasis in both previous games (or it seems so from my perspective).
@Edit - Not that you called anyone a jerk. That was in reference to the OP. This probably isn't the most coherent post ever. Just skip it if you want. LOL
I don't like the pvp in diablo because it is an HnS, so basicaly it is a game based on PVM. If you wanna do serious pvp, just play wow, where you have to use all your spells to be real good.
Diablo 2 was NOT a PvP game... it was a PvE with PvP thrown in. PvP was NOT major... it was an occasional when really bored thing... and it was horrible. Matches were always won by the person with the better gear... not by skill... and to even come in entry level you had to be "rich".
Diablo 3 would have been the same thing if they didn't promise to matchmake based on a combination of skill and gear...
Wow, quite a small one you got there mate... does it hurt so much? It's hard to comprehend Blizzard's line of thinking huh!?!
Anyway, to ease your pain even a little, Diablo was originally designed as a PvM game and was just later on upgraded to have PvP.
Besides, PvP would still be in on a later date as a patch, so I don't think you'll have anything more to worry about sonny. Don't rack your brain too much or it might get more painful for you "to see people against PvP in this game".
Here is the Blizzard Blue Poster post last March 9, 2012:
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.
While we work on making sure PvP lives up to its full potential, we hope you’ll find some consolation in the fact that soon, you’ll be having a blast leveling characters, finding items, learning the classes, and perfecting builds…and that when the Arenas do arrive, you’ll be all the better prepared for battle.
When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We’ll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team’s skulls.
We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we’re in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.
We’ll have a lot more info to share on the PvP system in the future, and we look forward to the moment we can get the game into your hands.
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My PvP build would be different from these 13.
Check out the leaked Demon Hunter skill list here from Blizzard China: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tiny.cc/10p16
Diablo III is $50; MSI GT683DXR-423US Gaming Laptop is $1,599; Playing Diablo III w/ my wife & 2 brothers is PRICELESS
Well, I dunno, all I feel he's doing is creating more animosity towards the PvP crowd. But hey, all PR is good PR right, even if it hints of perhaps more whinging and whining from the PvP community in terms of "waaaah Blizzard neglects balancing PvP in Diablo3, waaaah"... ^^