The people asked for another stash or two and they gave us it...and people are like mad, sad about this saying its not a victory?Do wut?Come on now seriously they asked..we asked...we wanted it..they gave it..people negative about something we asked for?I guess your mom and dad was just trying to shut you up and "throw a bone" at Christmas too when you asked for that expensive Iphone.Yet you still complained.Bottom Line: People will always complain, no matter what.Also..before inb4 troll..I understand we need more stash space I agree, but the fact we are getting all negative Nancy about it is just ridiculous.
Don't you think that perhaps with the loss of the AH inventory space and the addition of an extra character to gear that perhaps it might be feasible to come to a conclusion that we might need more inventory space?
Come on now seriously they asked..we asked...we wanted it..they gave it..people negative about something we asked for?
Exactly. And I wish people would keep that in mind. Blizzard has been trying to make D3 a newer and better experience for the franchise, and while many of their decisions have been hard-and-fast, without a lot of leeway, they're slowly but surely admitting many of their mistakes and rectifying them, while still staying true to the vision they set out
Just found some links, thought I'd share them from another thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR1LTYsGM9U#t=09m50shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zCIK7hUbtw#t=02m25shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwrfKzMN-hY
They are certainly staying true to their vision
And Yes, I understand *subject to change*
Just, well, a bit disappointing - can that be somewhat understandable without being labeled some term aka whiner, qq, ect
Edit: Some of those youtube videos showcasing pvp and charms are dating back to 2010. Four years ago. Lets keep waiting and have our fingers crossed *subject to change*
Thanks Acti-Blizz for the additional inventory space (although clearly 5 tabs would easily fit graphically).
They need something like in FFXIV. Once you complete a set you can condense 5 pieces into 1. I know complete sets will be less common in RoS but more item consolidation is probably another proactive direction to go.
The point is: "How many tabs are enough?" For me it can be 3, for Maka it can be 5, for X can be 7.
I'm a hoarder too; i struggled a lot in WoW to keep all my sets, seasonal items and silly trinkets... i think i need help instead of having more tabs to store random stuff. On a serious note, one addictional tab is better than nothing.
I'm grateful that they've decided to add an extra tab, really I am, but it's still not going to help a massive lot with all the reasons people put forward for wanting more space (specific builds leading to legendary hoarding, account bound paragon to encourage/not penalise playing different characters thus pointing towards more hoarding etc).
It's better than nothing, but still a little half-hearted IMO. Would still love to see that fifth tab slot space filled by a ' only' tab that's only available to that class to better divide class specific loot and items you want for that class.
Yep, exactly. You just need soooo much gear if you don't want to commit to one single build in the game. For example, you want to keep some Hydra/frost gear in case you find The Magistrate, but it occupies about 20 slots and is useless until you finally get that item. I find myself having 4 bracers (one for each element), a variety of shoulders, rings, and so on - and I haven't even started min/maxing anything in beta. And I'm focusing on my wizard only. With 5 classes, 4 stash slots (keep in mind they're shared) are still a bit short...
Well, but that's what I bought the CE for, three more twinks
You have a point and i was thinking about it after i posted; it's just i still have the mindset of D3V with bland gear used for every build on a single char.
I'm not quite sure about the point you're trying to get across....Are you criticising Blizzard? Players? Both? Neither?
Neither.
Was just thinking that it is no surprise that we get extra tabs / slots / whatever when they said back in D3 beta that we should get them. I am still waiting on PvP info and such.
Come on now seriously they asked..we asked...we wanted it..they gave it..people negative about something we asked for?
Exactly. And I wish people would keep that in mind. Blizzard has been trying to make D3 a newer and better experience for the franchise, and while many of their decisions have been hard-and-fast, without a lot of leeway, they're slowly but surely admitting many of their mistakes and rectifying them, while still staying true to the vision they set out
And Yes, I understand *subject to change*
Just, well, a bit disappointing - can that be somewhat understandable without being labeled some term aka whiner, qq, ect
Edit: Some of those youtube videos showcasing pvp and charms are dating back to 2010. Four years ago. Lets keep waiting and have our fingers crossed *subject to change*
Thanks Acti-Blizz for the additional inventory space (although clearly 5 tabs would easily fit graphically).
Those videos you posted just prove the point that they are trying to stick to the vision they repeat often: Concentrated Coolnes. Too many mediocre features is bad.
Come on now seriously they asked..we asked...we wanted it..they gave it..people negative about something we asked for?
Exactly. And I wish people would keep that in mind. Blizzard has been trying to make D3 a newer and better experience for the franchise, and while many of their decisions have been hard-and-fast, without a lot of leeway, they're slowly but surely admitting many of their mistakes and rectifying them, while still staying true to the vision they set out
And Yes, I understand *subject to change*
Just, well, a bit disappointing - can that be somewhat understandable without being labeled some term aka whiner, qq, ect
Edit: Some of those youtube videos showcasing pvp and charms are dating back to 2010. Four years ago. Lets keep waiting and have our fingers crossed *subject to change*
Thanks Acti-Blizz for the additional inventory space (although clearly 5 tabs would easily fit graphically).
Those videos you posted just prove the point that they are trying to stick to the vision they repeat often: Concentrated Coolnes. Too many mediocre features is bad.
I agree, that vision of PvP and Talisman seem awesome! PvP looks fun, Tali seems lie would be a welcomed feature- it also adds inventory space. They have a big panel of developers talking about their vision. We have video evidence of their vision. The vision of 2010 seemed really fun.
This is 2014. I understand things are subject to change. I understand they delayed the launch of Diablo 3, I understand they had to remove some content for launch. They told me about it, they also said it would be coming via patch.
It's been quiet some time since those videos were posted with the devs talking about the features and everything else.
I understand this isa fan site, trust me I'm a fan of Diablo. I know we all are because that is why we are here.
It just doesn't hurt to question things from time to time and to think about them.
It looks obvious, to me, that the inventory tabs can fit two more tabs, not just one. I know it's not a huge deal, thank you for giving me the extra slot. It's just the small things paint a big picture.
And the videos didn't suggest mediocre features to me. It seemed super cool. Now not being able to socket everything makes sense. But stripping everything when the videos seem cool (and it seems the devs thought it was cool) to completely remove everything. It's been four years since some of those videos were posted, the expansion pack is coming in a month or so.
I know it's a fan site, but what is a real fan mean to you?
I've highlighted the operative word. In game development, a lot of thingsseem cool when written down. Even to the point where they have full documents explaining their functionality. However, a lot of the times they just don't work out for any number of reasons (hard to balance, no meaningful gameplay addition, not fun to manage, etc). As Bashiok once said:
It was a cool idea at its core, but right now it's just really too basic and doesn't provide anything you can't get from the armor and weapons you're equipping. It requires a lot of the player to invest time and energy into finding and storing yet another type of item just to add player stats. When they do all that, it's just to do something pretty boring that they can already do with awesome things like armor and weapons.Originally the Talisman had a much deeper design, but it proved very ambitious and it got whittled down over the years to a very basic +stat per single square. We like simplicity in our designs, but charms became superfluous in their purpose'. We really like the core idea, but we don't want to stop everything and spend a large amount of time trying to fix the Talisman, although we do have some great ideas already. So, it'll very likely come back in some form or another after the game ships.
The line at the end is just dev speak for "it's not off the table", like how they couch a lot of statements with "no plans at this time for X".
I understand your point eman41, it is just a tough pill to swallow.
Espicially because you have seen the community post their ideas on Talisman. The suggestions/feedback from players on the Talisman over the years have sounded good. The videos the devs had at Blizzcon look fun!
I'm not a game dev, I don't know the process, I really don't. It's just been quiet some time now they have had to thoroughly think it over. RoS seemed like an opportune time to address the Talisman. It's tough to know we will most likely have the Talisman for the 2nd expansion. Edit: And we'll get the 5th inventory slot with the 2nd expansion as well
Sorry if I sound likea whiner, maybe I am. But it is frustrating because I am a fan and I have been waiting pretty patiently for some of these cool things.
And I'm not exactly convinced Loot 2.0 is going to be as amazing as advertised
That thing about the Talisman can be said about any gear slot. Why have a bracers slot, for example? They just add the same stats as the other pieces of gear.
Why have a bracer slot? Because the bracer slot gives another slot for the player to
1) Kill monsters
2) Go on the item hunt
3) Make the player more powerful
4) Add a level of customization
a)Can have charms that aid in resource regen
b)give players options
-Do I want to pick bracer A or bracer B? bracer A has more dps, but I lose EHP compaired to bracer B. Let me add (or grind) for a charm with EHP stats so I off balance it (one tiny example, other people have much better ideas then me). Gives the players options, customization, and an added level of depth
We have bracer slot because we want to hunt for items to upgrade. Items make us feel powerful, we hunt and grind for items to feel epic. I think that fits a perfect vision for diablo.
That thing about the Talisman can be said about any gear slot. Why have a bracers slot, for example? They just add the same stats as the other pieces of gear.
As with everything, the line exists. There aren't ear slots either and there are only two rings for 10 fingers. Diablo 2 had a lot fewer gear slots than DIablo 3, but had charms. Diablo 3 has more gear slots (legs, shoulders, bracers) which gives the player customization over not only their stats, but their otward appearance as well and allows the designers to have more item slot specific stats rather than "Big Charm--->Big Chunk of a stat".
They probably figured the purpose of talismans is covered by creating more actual gear options, which to me is a good tradeoff in a pure RPG sense. Maybe the Talisman reappears down the line as something more than stats, maybe it doesn't.
That thing about the Talisman can be said about any gear slot. Why have a bracers slot, for example? They just add the same stats as the other pieces of gear.
As with everything, the line exists. There aren't ear slots either and there are only two rings for 10 fingers. Diablo 2 had a lot fewer gear slots than DIablo 3, but had charms. Diablo 3 has more gear slots (legs, shoulders, bracers) which gives the player customization over not only their stats, but their otward appearance as well and allows the designers to have more item slot specific stats rather than "Big Charm--->Big Chunk of a stat".
They probably figured the purpose of talismans is covered by creating more actual gear options, which to me is a good tradeoff in a pure RPG sense. Maybe the Talisman reappears down the line as something more than stats, maybe it doesn't.
Let's go with your thought. Let's say, instead of having 2 ring slots, we have 4 ring slots. And lets say these two additional ring slots are not restricted to affixes that can roll on rings, but yet can roll any affix in RoS. Would this not add a level of customization, depth, and add something to hunt and kill and grind for?
That thing about the Talisman can be said about any gear slot. Why have a bracers slot, for example? They just add the same stats as the other pieces of gear.
As with everything, the line exists. There aren't ear slots either and there are only two rings for 10 fingers. Diablo 2 had a lot fewer gear slots than DIablo 3, but had charms. Diablo 3 has more gear slots (legs, shoulders, bracers) which gives the player customization over not only their stats, but their otward appearance as well and allows the designers to have more item slot specific stats rather than "Big Charm--->Big Chunk of a stat".
They probably figured the purpose of talismans is covered by creating more actual gear options, which to me is a good tradeoff in a pure RPG sense. Maybe the Talisman reappears down the line as something more than stats, maybe it doesn't.
Let's go with your thought. Let's say, instead of having 2 ring slots, we have 4 ring slots. And lets say these two additional ring slots are not restricted to affixes that can roll on rings, but yet can roll any affix in RoS. Would this not add a level of customization, depth, and add something to hunt and kill and grind for?
First of all, damage424...yeah...those vids are ancient. Your dreams didn't make it into D3. Sorry. Some of them might still get in eventually, but hanging on to features that were cut is just unhealthy for you. Are you still going to stress over the fact that the devs went against expectations and got rid of skill trees? Because that would be entertaining. Please feel free to QQ about skill trees, and how people loved the permanence and rerolling...ya know, while they were getting power leveled to 30 so they didn't have to "grind."
As for more slots, you're absolutely right. I think "Acti-Blizzard" are total morons for not allowing socks, underwear, and golden tooth slots, because those would also allow players more ways to customize. No bracelets, no earrings, no bras for the lady characters, no specialty fingernail additions, no belly piercings, no skill-buffing hairstyles...stop me when I've reached the point where it's actually become ludicrous.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be really interested and excited in the Talisman being reintroduced into the game. The next expansion seems like a much more appropriate time to do it, though, since RoS addresses most of the existing issues people have had with the game from launch till now. The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement. As long as they can find some interesting way of putting it in, that adds a compelling meta game to character customization, then I'm all for it. But the early look and build of it, while interesting, was way too basic and not thought out enough.
Let's go with your thought. Let's say, instead of having 2 ring slots, we have 4 ring slots. And lets say these two additional ring slots are not restricted to affixes that can roll on rings, but yet can roll any affix in RoS. Would this not add a level of customization, depth, and add something to hunt and kill and grind for?
Now were adding more items with more affixes... RNG is this game is bad enough and increasing it isn't going to add more depth its going to add more frustration. Special affix for additional ring slots does seem nice but considering how bad item finding is.... more is less. There are balancing concerns as well. Were just stacking more stats to a system that it's already broken and people will just farm for the same stats that are already popular, crit, CD, IAS, Pick up radius.
That thing about the Talisman can be said about any gear slot. Why have a bracers slot, for example? They just add the same stats as the other pieces of gear.
As with everything, the line exists. There aren't ear slots either and there are only two rings for 10 fingers. Diablo 2 had a lot fewer gear slots than DIablo 3, but had charms. Diablo 3 has more gear slots (legs, shoulders, bracers) which gives the player customization over not only their stats, but their otward appearance as well and allows the designers to have more item slot specific stats rather than "Big Charm--->Big Chunk of a stat".
They probably figured the purpose of talismans is covered by creating more actual gear options, which to me is a good tradeoff in a pure RPG sense. Maybe the Talisman reappears down the line as something more than stats, maybe it doesn't.
Let's go with your thought. Let's say, instead of having 2 ring slots, we have 4 ring slots. And lets say these two additional ring slots are not restricted to affixes that can roll on rings, but yet can roll any affix in RoS. Would this not add a level of customization, depth, and add something to hunt and kill and grind for?
First of all, damage424...yeah...those vids are ancient. Your dreams didn't make it into D3. Sorry. Some of them might still get in eventually, but hanging on to features that were cut is just unhealthy for you. Are you still going to stress over the fact that the devs went against expectations and got rid of skill trees? Because that would be entertaining. Please feel free to QQ about skill trees, and how people loved the permanence and rerolling...ya know, while they were getting power leveled to 30 so they didn't have to "grind."
As for more slots, you're absolutely right. I think "Acti-Blizzard" are total morons for not allowing socks, underwear, and golden tooth slots, because those would also allow players more ways to customize. No bracelets, no earrings, no bras for the lady characters, no specialty fingernail additions, no belly piercings, no skill-buffing hairstyles...stop me when I've reached the point where it's actually become ludicrous.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be really interested and excited in the Talisman being reintroduced into the game. The next expansion seems like a much more appropriate time to do it, though, since RoS addresses most of the existing issues people have had with the game from launch till now. The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement. As long as they can find some interesting way of putting it in, that adds a compelling meta game to character customization, then I'm all for it. But the early look and build of it, while interesting, was way too basic and not thought out enough.
In three pages on this thread, I don't see a mention of skill trees
My dreams do notrevolve around Diablo. I just love to play Diablo.
I didn't mean add more slots.
I was using that as an example to illustrate some of the benefits the Talisman can provide. And I think it's cool. Again, not adding any new gear. Adding charms. Talsiman is used to hold charms. Charms can roll any affix in RoS but can only roll one or maybe even 2 affixes. Charms can level or improve or be combined to make better charms. This adds to an item hunt - end game. This adds customization and choices for the player.
Videos are ancient, but they also seem fun. Because they are ancient, they should have had time to work on them. But expansion #2 will come eventually.
I'm asking questions andtrying to have adiscussion.
The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement.
It's as much of a requirement as other gear slots.I don't get this argument. Why were charms held to a higher standard than other pieces of gear?
Why were they held to a higher standard? Easy.
In D2, Charms offered great buffs to stats and skills, ALMOST for free. All you have to do is hold them in your pack and you get stronger. Thing is, even with an empty inventory, pack space in D2 was friggin minimal. So while it seemed like free buffs, the fact that Diablo has always been a LOOT HUNT, and Charms directly impeded that...was kinda flawed in design. On paper, it made a lot of sense, but in implementation, it was a royal pain in the ass. Thus, if you really wanted to carry around Charms, you either had to get the right shaped ones, or even choose to bother with it at all.
Early on, the D3 devs made a lot of easy evolutions in systems. Perfect example...Town Portal Scrolls and ID scrolls. GONE. Mainly because people in D2 never ran out. There was no point in carrying them around, because they were either so cheap to buy regularly, or so abundant from drops, forcing you to use an item for those simple QoL steps was pointless. The Talisman was the next logical step for the concept of Charms, but like I said, Charms were a choice to even carry at all. They were extra bonuses for people willing to make the major sacrifice of loot space. Had the Talisman been implemented in D3, Charms wouldn't have been a choice to carry, and the only way they would've been a choice is if people left their Talisman's empty.
Like I said, I'd like to see it back. A lot. I like more character customization options as much as anybody else, and additional ways to make my builds and setups more unique and stronger, I'm all for that. But I don't want it to be JUST another source of higher stats. Which is what the Talisman initially was...just a spot to put stat items. That's it. If inventory space isn't impeded, there should be drawbacks on each Charm, negative effects that cause people to think, "ooooh, I could really use that buff, but...man, that downside is pretty intense. Gotta figure out a way to minimize it."
Charms were just another from of stat adding as well... 3/20/20 and poison charms ring a bell? In D2 at least gear could actually affect builds, charms not really unless you found +1 tree skills and not a +1 all class skills in which still isn't really a build changer just stat stacking.
I'm a hoarder too; i struggled a lot in WoW to keep all my sets, seasonal items and silly trinkets... i think i need help instead of having more tabs to store random stuff. On a serious note, one addictional tab is better than nothing.
Well, but that's what I bought the CE for, three more twinks
Was just thinking that it is no surprise that we get extra tabs / slots / whatever when they said back in D3 beta that we should get them. I am still waiting on PvP info and such.
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
This is 2014. I understand things are subject to change. I understand they delayed the launch of Diablo 3, I understand they had to remove some content for launch. They told me about it, they also said it would be coming via patch.
It's been quiet some time since those videos were posted with the devs talking about the features and everything else.
I understand this isa fan site, trust me I'm a fan of Diablo. I know we all are because that is why we are here.
It just doesn't hurt to question things from time to time and to think about them.
It looks obvious, to me, that the inventory tabs can fit two more tabs, not just one. I know it's not a huge deal, thank you for giving me the extra slot. It's just the small things paint a big picture.
And the videos didn't suggest mediocre features to me. It seemed super cool. Now not being able to socket everything makes sense. But stripping everything when the videos seem cool (and it seems the devs thought it was cool) to completely remove everything. It's been four years since some of those videos were posted, the expansion pack is coming in a month or so.
I know it's a fan site, but what is a real fan mean to you?
Now with trading remove, everything BOA. Single player game
I've highlighted the operative word. In game development, a lot of thingsseem cool when written down. Even to the point where they have full documents explaining their functionality. However, a lot of the times they just don't work out for any number of reasons (hard to balance, no meaningful gameplay addition, not fun to manage, etc). As Bashiok once said:
The line at the end is just dev speak for "it's not off the table", like how they couch a lot of statements with "no plans at this time for X".
Espicially because you have seen the community post their ideas on Talisman. The suggestions/feedback from players on the Talisman over the years have sounded good. The videos the devs had at Blizzcon look fun!
I'm not a game dev, I don't know the process, I really don't. It's just been quiet some time now they have had to thoroughly think it over. RoS seemed like an opportune time to address the Talisman. It's tough to know we will most likely have the Talisman for the 2nd expansion. Edit: And we'll get the 5th inventory slot with the 2nd expansion as well
Sorry if I sound likea whiner, maybe I am. But it is frustrating because I am a fan and I have been waiting pretty patiently for some of these cool things.
And I'm not exactly convinced Loot 2.0 is going to be as amazing as advertised
1) Kill monsters
2) Go on the item hunt
3) Make the player more powerful
4) Add a level of customization
a)Can have charms that aid in resource regen
b)give players options
-Do I want to pick bracer A or bracer B? bracer A has more dps, but I lose EHP compaired to bracer B. Let me add (or grind) for a charm with EHP stats so I off balance it (one tiny example, other people have much better ideas then me). Gives the players options, customization, and an added level of depth
We have bracer slot because we want to hunt for items to upgrade. Items make us feel powerful, we hunt and grind for items to feel epic. I think that fits a perfect vision for diablo.
They probably figured the purpose of talismans is covered by creating more actual gear options, which to me is a good tradeoff in a pure RPG sense. Maybe the Talisman reappears down the line as something more than stats, maybe it doesn't.
As for more slots, you're absolutely right. I think "Acti-Blizzard" are total morons for not allowing socks, underwear, and golden tooth slots, because those would also allow players more ways to customize. No bracelets, no earrings, no bras for the lady characters, no specialty fingernail additions, no belly piercings, no skill-buffing hairstyles...stop me when I've reached the point where it's actually become ludicrous.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be really interested and excited in the Talisman being reintroduced into the game. The next expansion seems like a much more appropriate time to do it, though, since RoS addresses most of the existing issues people have had with the game from launch till now. The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement. As long as they can find some interesting way of putting it in, that adds a compelling meta game to character customization, then I'm all for it. But the early look and build of it, while interesting, was way too basic and not thought out enough.
Now were adding more items with more affixes... RNG is this game is bad enough and increasing it isn't going to add more depth its going to add more frustration. Special affix for additional ring slots does seem nice but considering how bad item finding is.... more is less. There are balancing concerns as well. Were just stacking more stats to a system that it's already broken and people will just farm for the same stats that are already popular, crit, CD, IAS, Pick up radius.
My dreams do notrevolve around Diablo. I just love to play Diablo.
I didn't mean add more slots.
I was using that as an example to illustrate some of the benefits the Talisman can provide. And I think it's cool. Again, not adding any new gear. Adding charms. Talsiman is used to hold charms. Charms can roll any affix in RoS but can only roll one or maybe even 2 affixes. Charms can level or improve or be combined to make better charms. This adds to an item hunt - end game. This adds customization and choices for the player.
Videos are ancient, but they also seem fun. Because they are ancient, they should have had time to work on them. But expansion #2 will come eventually.
I'm asking questions andtrying to have adiscussion.
In D2, Charms offered great buffs to stats and skills, ALMOST for free. All you have to do is hold them in your pack and you get stronger. Thing is, even with an empty inventory, pack space in D2 was friggin minimal. So while it seemed like free buffs, the fact that Diablo has always been a LOOT HUNT, and Charms directly impeded that...was kinda flawed in design. On paper, it made a lot of sense, but in implementation, it was a royal pain in the ass. Thus, if you really wanted to carry around Charms, you either had to get the right shaped ones, or even choose to bother with it at all.
Early on, the D3 devs made a lot of easy evolutions in systems. Perfect example...Town Portal Scrolls and ID scrolls. GONE. Mainly because people in D2 never ran out. There was no point in carrying them around, because they were either so cheap to buy regularly, or so abundant from drops, forcing you to use an item for those simple QoL steps was pointless. The Talisman was the next logical step for the concept of Charms, but like I said, Charms were a choice to even carry at all. They were extra bonuses for people willing to make the major sacrifice of loot space. Had the Talisman been implemented in D3, Charms wouldn't have been a choice to carry, and the only way they would've been a choice is if people left their Talisman's empty.
Like I said, I'd like to see it back. A lot. I like more character customization options as much as anybody else, and additional ways to make my builds and setups more unique and stronger, I'm all for that. But I don't want it to be JUST another source of higher stats. Which is what the Talisman initially was...just a spot to put stat items. That's it. If inventory space isn't impeded, there should be drawbacks on each Charm, negative effects that cause people to think, "ooooh, I could really use that buff, but...man, that downside is pretty intense. Gotta figure out a way to minimize it."
Charms were just another from of stat adding as well... 3/20/20 and poison charms ring a bell? In D2 at least gear could actually affect builds, charms not really unless you found +1 tree skills and not a +1 all class skills in which still isn't really a build changer just stat stacking.