well i highly doubt that there will be another class in expansions i'm given to understand
that the development team kinda hate to making diablo like wow
but if so, during last years blizzcon when they announce demon hunter i saw one of the concepts part human part demon i really like that idea
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It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Actually new characters in expansions is nothing new to Diablo. Remember Lord of Destruction featured two new classes, the Assassin and the Druid. This was well before WoW.
I'm not a necromancer fan nor or am i for or against its return but i have an idea of how it may work and be different from the witch doctor.
the necromancer gains its resource points from killing. any creature that dies will give the necro a high value of its resource. what i mean is the necro gains resource in large clumps than say the barbarian or monk would.
the necro's summoning skills can work like auras. say you activate summon skeleton warrior aura. any creature that dies within range of the aura will be resurrected as a skeleton warrior. keeping the aura active will lower the total resource by lets say 10%. And the aura also has a cool down so like a skeleton warrior can be raised every 4 seconds. higher level skills, let say, summon skeleton mage. this aura lowers the resource by 20% and summons skeleton mages from dead monsters in range. and it has a cooldown of 7 seconds. a necromancer can have both auras active at the same time but this would lower its total resource to 70% for casting other spells. plus a skeleton warrior will be activated every 4 seconds, a mage every 7 seconds. if both spells are available the higher level one activates first.
so lets say in 28 seconds, you could have a total of 7 skeleton warriors and 4 skeleton mages around you. the timing is all changeable, i'm just giving an example to clarify my point. i really think this necromancer could work and be different enough from the witch doctor to make it into the expansion.
so lets say in 28 seconds, you could have a total of 7 skeleton warriors and 4 skeleton mages around you.
Now imagine 4 necromancers with 11 minions each. Yeah that would be a mess.
I actually thought about that. Either have the summons have a lifespan or limit the number of summoned creatures on the battlefield. Or lengthen the cooldown between summoning. There are many ways to circumvent that problem.
Oh, and you need corpses to summon creatures. Surely there aren't 44 corpses lying around in a single area...
You're almost on the same track as I am actually. Here let me share my ideas for a necro build. Hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed making it.
THE NECROMANCER
This idea was actually inspired from a D+D build, inspired by the Diablo D+D game, which was based on Diablo 1+2. Cool cycle huh? Anyway, here it is.
Short-short version: I went with a more Battle-Mage type Necromancer to make him play a little bit different from the original Necro who was primarily a ranged caster (optional builds not withstanding) Experienced players will notice similarities to a Paladin style of gameplay as well..
Detailed version: The original necromancer to me felt like a modern day general. He doesn’t exactly participate in the battle directly, but sets the battlefield to his advantage as his armies do the grunt work. That was awesome, but obviously things need to change for this game so I theorized ‘how can the necromancer, play differently but still have the old school charm?’ My answer was to turn the general, into a warlord. Much of his abilities (and his energy to use them) revolve around him being in combat rather than observing and acting from a distance. As you will see.
Resource: Death/Souls
'Souls' works similar to the Barbarian’s Fury in so much you generate it while in combat. UNLIKE the Barbarian however you gain souls only by killing your foes or being within ‘harvesting’ range of the dying foe. Your soul amount also does not degenerate over time. Souls are used to power all of your abilities so this forces the necromancer to partake in combat when depleted. You only receive ONE soul for every kill (exceptions may be elites, champions and bosses). Passive skills will increase the range of his harvest, ergo making him very effective in multiplayer when enemies slain by comrades start dropping.
The cost of his abilities would be relatively low given the circumstances required to generate. However he does have a limited capacity at first which can of course be improved upon by skills, runes, and items.
SKILLS
So here are the three skill types for the necro. I should say I did find it rather frustrating trying to come up with BETTER necromancer skills (Now I know how Blizzard felt). I had a few ideas for each listing after the classic spells the necromancer possessed that would fit in that set.
Torments
Note: I was originally going to call this set ‘afflictions’, but several red flags went up for obvious reasons so I renamed it to Torments.
Because the necromancer at lower levels needs to be in combat to generate soul power, even his added endurance and a good blade may not be enough to take on some foes. Enter our first skill type, Torments.
Torments act much like the Paladins auras and affect all enemies around the necromancer within range of the field. A Torment requires no soul power to activate or maintain but only ONE torment can be activated at any given time. Torments are the skills meant to turn the tide of battle and to make it easier to defeat foes in order to rack up souls. The range of an aura and its level of effect can be improved with runes and items.
Possible candidates:
Classics
Amplify Damage: Double damage
Weaken: Lessen enemy damage
Slow: Lessen enemy speed and mobility
Dim Vision: Lessen enemy precision
Absorb/Life Tap: Grant life per strike
Confuse: Turn enemies within range against each other
Resistance: Lowers resistance of enemies
Thorns: Damage returned to enemies
My little ideas:
Silent Reaper: You turn invisible to your enemies and strike without repercussions for a short while. Disengaging with the Torment still active will cause enemies to lose you so you may run back in the fray unnoticed after a short time.
Death’s Swift Hand: Allows you to strike multiple enemies at once, dealing less damage but greatly increasing attack speed.
Note: I would think it best to combine some of these into one. Such as Amplify Damage and Weaken.
Death Magic (Lame title I know…)
With the power of raw extinguished life in his hands the necromancer may channel their despair into destructive forces of his enemies worst nightmares. These are the bread and butter of the necromancer’s magical offense.
Possible Candidates:
Classics:
Teeth Equivalent
Bone Spear Equivalent
Bone Spirit Equivalent
My little ideas:
Spirit Wrack: This power infects the very soul of a creature, terrifying it and dealing % weapon damage over time while stunning the creature. If a creature dies while under this spell a soul is automatically added to the necromancer’s energy no matter where he is.
Imbue: Channel a dead soul into your weapon imbuing it with extra % weapon damage for a short period of time.
Vengeful Apparition: You release a soul from your control into the midst of battle. It screams and unearthly cry of sorrow which damages all enemies within radius for % weapon damage and stuns those affected. (Wail of Banshee, classic )
Fury of the Dead: This spell costs one soul for every kill you make, but also improves the damage, armor, and attack speed of the necromancer for every kill to a capped amount. Each time after the cap requires a soul to remain active.
Trang-oul's Avatar: This spell launches a large skeletal serpent into battle and devours all enemies within it's range for a short time. Every enemy slain by this spell is imbued with trang-oul's blessing and grants the necromancer 2 souls to his resource. HOWEVER each enemy devoured can not be used for re-animation spells due to consumption of corpse.
Reanimate
A necromancer can force a dead soul back into the world of the living to serve out his purposes. These skills revolve around the quintessential ability of the necromancer to reanimate dead matter and return it to form.
Bone Warrior: Targeting a corpse, a necromancer rends the bones from the body and gives them breath. A skeletal warrior will last until destroyed for its master. A necromancer can only have two Bone Warriors at any given time.
Spirit Mage: Similar to Bone Mage, however instead of a skeleton it is an apparition and as such does not require a corpse. Spirit mage is invulnerable to all enemy melee damage, lasts only a few moments and has a cooldown. Also the type of element chosen is, like bone mage, random.
Revive: Full reanimates a dead enemy to fight for you. Unlike the past, it is permanent and will not disappear after a time. However you can only have ONE revived creature at any given time.
Homunculus: A necromancer can make a clone of himself to fight for him. The clone retains all the active skills of the necromancer and uses them in combat, except for summoning spells. A corpse is required, the clone is temporary, and is on a cooldown.
Kamikaze Skeleton: Animates a skeleton that charges it's nearest enemy and explodes into the equivalent of Corpse Explosion dealing damage to all within its radius.
Other considerations:
Golems
Tempoarary army spell
Bone/ Wraith armor spell (Anyone get the Legacy of Kain reference? No? oh well.)
So there you have it guys. Mind you I obviously haven’t considered runes. One criticism I have is that the only real difference lies in its resource gathering but hey this is just meant to be shared. I’m trying to wrack my brain as to how to give him a few more melee abilities but every one I’ve come up with is very Monk-ish, Demon-Hunter-ish for it's own good. If I get some more ideas I’ll definitely share. Thanks for reading, I apologize for the long read and I shall close with this
P.S.
Just for fun, what I think the source could look like:
I think its safe to say that this is my fav fan class that i've seen so far. I love this Necromancer idea. I have a few idea to help you out. So in creating the necromancer, i think the first thing is to distance it from the witch doctor as far as possible. This is so that the necro will feel unique and to avoid overlaps.
Fighting Style
Is the necro a ranged fighter or a melee fighter when not using its spells? Or does it operate more like the wizard and witch doctor and relies heavily on its spells?
Resource
I think this system is excellent. No real qualms about it.
Torments
I think this is a beautiful name for the type of spells it casts. Curses are the bread and butter of any necro and this one is no different. My only suggestion is to remove confusion. Let that be in the realm of the witch doctor. Let the necro concentrate on weakening its opponents rather than turning them against each other.
Death Magic.
We need a name change.
I have a few suggestions for abilities.
Serpent Strike: Launches an snake-like apparition with fangs bared that shoots out in a straight line. All creatures it passes are diseased (damage over time) and/or slowed. (replaces bone spear)
Constriction: A serpent-like apparition appears and wraps itself around an enemy, strangling the life out of it. Mechanics wise, this would act like the Keeper of The Grove's entangling roots, damaging and immobilizing an enemy. Except you'll have this ghostly anaconda doing the constriction instead. (replaces bone spirit)
Vengeful apparition: Instead of stun, how about fear?
You're missing the classic corpse explosion!!!
Reanimation
Feel free to use my suggestion for reanimating aura mechanics. I think its quite original and make the necro stand out from the witch doctor. Plus, with these auras active, the summons will emerge automatically, allowing the necro to focus on fighting instead of animating. like autocast almost.
Kamikaze skeleton is too much like zombie charge for the witch doctor.
Please don't add any golem spells. You could add bone fiend which is a giant creature made from the corpses of multiple creatures. So this creature would be as strong as 2-5 corpses. If 3 corpses is a available, it'll have 3x HP, damage. 4 corpses 4x HP, damage blah blah. bone fiend or bone golem. lets keep the necro summons' bony and the witch doctor's fleshy.
Some other spell ideas:
1. Possession - Sends a spirit and takes control of a single creature. Has a big cooldown and doesn't work on bosses, unique creatures...
2. Wail of the Banshee - summons a banshee which starts singing a dirge. The dirge is so terrible, that monsters immediately start attacking the banshee to try and shut her up. But hitting her will only result in taking damage instead. i don't know if you want to make her temporary but invulnerable or give her x amount of HP. oh and she doesn't move from the spot she's summoned.
3. Death Totem - Any creature that dies around the totem will explode and damage nearby creatures. only downside is it creates no corpses.
4. We need 2 escape spells. Like barbarian has sprint and leaping attack, demon hunter has vault and smoke bomb, monk has inner sanctuary and serenity, wizard has teleport, witch doctor has spirit walk. the necro needs a way to get out of trouble.
That's all for now. If i think of anything else i will let you know.
Thank you nineteen. I knew you'd appreciate it. My goal was actually to distance him from the original necro since that was the major issue Blizzard has. I figured I'd hammer out the WD details down the line if I had time and people were interested.
As for the torments, yeah Confusion was one I wasn't feeling much either but I figured if the necro would have that ability it would go there.
Death Magic, yes I just couldn't think of a better name and actually hesitated to post this because of it What was I thinking?
Serpent Stirke: Sounds cool but I think that is just like the snake to the face runed poison dart ability of the WD no? Sure it substitutes DoT for stun but still the same principle. I think it would work better as a rune ability to the Trang-oul skill I mentioned to be honest
Constriction I like it reminds me of the suffocation D+D spell. I'll think of a way to tweek it a bit because something about it rubs me the wrong way. I'll probably know tomorrow as it's late where I am now.
As for the vengeful apparition spell it was a toss up between stun and fear. And I guess what it came down to was you want the enemies to be within harvesting range so running away would kind of be detremental, but on the other side this would encourage another build option and help out that escape thing you mentioned later in your post...
Corpse Explosion: I'll get to this.
Reanimation, I haven't played the beta but I'm almost certain none of the WD skills requires corpses for summoning. That in itself makes it unique from the WD. But I'm sure with enough thought the two ideas (aura and corpse) could be incorporated together.
As for kamikazee skeleton, yes it is like the charger however see what it does, it is actually a mobile corpse explosion! That is why I left it out of death magic to put a new spin on it.
Now the next thing intrigues me because I was playing around with this a bit. I was thinking about what would happen if multiple corpses were used for a summon and originally thought about that as a source until I came up with Souls. Definitely something to ponder. My current state of thinking is if you want a summon class different from the WD you have two options. One go with a mass summoner or have a class that can summon but summon one pet that you build upon as the game goes on. Since no one wants another lag-omancer, I am trying to figure out a part for the later and that may be a good starting point.
As for the rest
Possession: This is basically confusion or a reverse attract spell on a single target.
Wail of the Banshee: I think I had something like this already with vengeful apparition.
Death Totem: That's pretty cool. Mass Corpse Explosion without the mana drain. I'd throw a Cool down on it for now too.
Escape spells I whole heartedly agree with. With universal cool downs on a good deal of skills and even the potions, panic buttons barely exist in Diablo.
It's funny I'm actually taking this semi seriously, as if Blizzard is going to see this but I admit it is fun to do. Gives me some ideas for great characters.
For now I think we'll leave Death Magic as a placeholder til one of us or someone else comes up with a better name.
With regards to serpent strike being similar to snake to the face... Snake to face basically launches a tiny snake that latches on to an enemy face. Snake strike creates a large spectral force (not a physical one) that resembles a snake but shoots out in a line (the same size of the wizard's disintegration beam) and poisons all enemies it hits. it does not deal an initial large damage to creatures in its path. another way to make this different is to add seeking properties to it. so the snake actually homes in one enemies and seeks out new foes after its done poisoning old ones.
*i have another idea below that might incorporate this spell. if you prefer that one, disregard this one.
to me constriction is more about the visual that the mechanics. any spell can cause DOTs plus immobilization. the reason i'm choosing snakes is cause in a way snakes are related to dragons like Trag'Oul. So i kinda figured... maybe there's a connection between the two.
i think vengeful apparition could be a fear spell to chase enemies away while wail of the banshee attracts enemies in for "harvesting" purposes.
all witch doctor spells don't require corpses and are permanent til killed i think. fetish army is on a timer. so is charger. but dogs, spiders and gargantuans are not. i'm for the aura and corpses, not only to make the necro different but to free the necro from constantly summoning pets. making it kinda autocast will definitely show how terrifying the necro is in combat and a master of reanimation.
ok now for the mobile exploding zombie. here's where the * i put in earlier comes in.
lets say you want this mobile exploding creature. here's my idea. a bone spirit is summoned. a bone spirit looks like the skeletal remains of a snake and it hovers in the air when no enemies are present. when enemies come close, the spirit flies straight at them and smashes into them. this results in grievous damage to the target and the impact of the spirit sends shards of bones flying all over the place, damaging surrounding enemies. this way you get to merge the exploding mobile corpse idea with the snake idea and making it different from zombie charger and snake to the face. what say you?
i would go for large army of the pets. but if you use the aura mechanics, then you're sacrificing your total pool of souls to summon more powerful pets. so if you turn on the bone skeleton aura, your total pool is only 90% full, a bone golem would be 70% full and both together 60% full. this will make you wanna choose, ok do i want to sacrifice how much soul i can use to have a large pet army or do i want some pets and a larger pool to use my other skills.
i think we should aim for 22-24 active skills (we can do the passives later).
here's the breakdown of what we should aim for:
7-9 damage dealing spells (nuke, surrounds, AOE, etc)
about 6 summoning spells (bone guard, bone golem, bone mage, dunno if you wanna include bone spirit here)
about 2-4 crowd control spells that deal no or minimal damage but attracts, stuns, slows, disorients, fears and those kinda effects.
5-6 curses. maybe some will get incorporated into the crowd control and others into the direct damage dealing spells.
1-2 escape spells.
2-3 support spells, or misc spells.
in any case i think maybe we should aim for 23 active skills using the combination above.
it is fun to do, and who knows? maybe blizzard might take a look. looking forward to seeing your ideas tmrw.
Life Tap - At level 10 or something, the necromancer can gain this ability to basically sacrifice life for resource. this is because the way the necro's soul resource works depends on the amount of creatures killed, sometimes a necro might find itself without any resource and stuck in a bad predicament. instead of punishing the player for his/her mistake, the necro can use this ability to gain resource and get out of the situation. of course, it'll have a long cooldown so the player won't heavily rely on it and make things too easy.
I also think there will be some kind of shield focused class, maybe even in combination with "nature magic".
Druids don´t always have to be bearded big guys wearing a wolfskin.
Why not combine the crusader theme with the nature-flavor?
I made a sketch of what I think the next class should look like
Although I pretty much doubt a lot of people would go for it.
@Airnesto: Not too shabby. Probably would call it a Sentinel class. I'm actually working on a drawing for my class too.
@nineteen
Again a large army will not work, for server reasons. If we due have a mass summon it will probably function like the fetish army, tempoarary and a on shot. Life Tap I like and can be thrown into Death Magic. Still not feeling the constrictor skill though I think it is border line redundant really.
Now see there's the problem with the aura mechanic. I don't think the player would appreciate a lack of control of what is summoned and the expenditure of a a soul point. I mean I'd rather control directly what I summon. It's still a cool idea but I don't think it could function properly. Maybe ONE ability can make use of this but not a whole system dedicated to it.
Tell you what I'm going to look at the current talent trees via Skill calculators and then shoot you a number that coincides with yours in mind. Don't forget we haven't even considered passives yet.
@Airnesto: Not too shabby. Probably would call it a Sentinel class. I'm actually working on a drawing for my class too.
@nineteen
Again a large army will not work, for server reasons. If we due have a mass summon it will probably function like the fetish army, tempoarary and a on shot. Life Tap I like and can be thrown into Death Magic. Still not feeling the constrictor skill though I think it is border line redundant really.
Now see there's the problem with the aura mechanic. I don't think the player would appreciate a lack of control of what is summoned and the expenditure of a a soul point. I mean I'd rather control directly what I summon. It's still a cool idea but I don't think it could function properly. Maybe ONE ability can make use of this but not a whole system dedicated to it.
Tell you what I'm going to look at the current talent trees via Skill calculators and then shoot you a number that coincides with yours in mind. Don't forget we haven't even considered passives yet.
wait a minute...
are you telling me that the witch doctor pets are controllable? if you are... SWEET!!!!!!
let me know what skills you have in mind (as detailed as possible) and i will help you out with them.
Wait what? No no no, sorry you read that wrong. What I meant was if an aura of summoning automatically summons pets then what happens is you end up summoning what you don't really want or need. That's what I meant by control. Sorry I should've typed that better.
@adslalex
Don't be sorry, we're all just shooting ideas. Though if the tulpa summon passes it has to be with the theme every time you summon it.
Besides I'm finding this thread a very fun thread compared to the abundance of 'Why game no release date/ have purdy graphics/why no beta threads that are flooding the general boards.
EDIT: Oh BTW nineteen I read over your heretic class, I don't know how I missed that, you think some things in there could work for the necro? And if so do you mind if I incorporate some ideas into our build?
i had this idea for a "druid" character called the warden, who is basically a ranged spear/axe thrower that also uses nature magic like summoning animal spirits to imbue his weapons. like infusing the spirit of the bull into the spear to make it stun enemies who get hit, or spirit of the porcupine to make the spear split into five pieces as it is thrown. also it summons animal totems like the hawk to increase damage, crit chance and speed of the weapons used, a stampede of bulls to rush an enemy, jaguars to slash enemies in an area, stuff like that. also the constriction and snake strike ideas i suggested for the necro come from here. the warden uses "chi" as its resource which is split into yin and yang. as yin is used up, yang gets filled. some abilities are powered by yin and the other yang. so its a juggling of both resources to utilized this character best.
@NecromancerKazuya
ah i see now, i get your point with the auras. well, if you don't need that type of pet, you could turn the aura off and increase your total available "soul". i don't know, the mechanics around it might seem a little complex now that i think about it.
oh go ahead and scavenge whatever you need from the heretic. i have no problems with that (better the ideas get used and if blizzard sees it, woo hoo!, than to be tossed away at the wayside). i think the curses would work well and the wailing banshee idea i suggested is basically a copy of the cackling effigy. i think we should stick to your soul idea for the resource cuz my pain idea is only usable if the character is somewhat evil, and the necro at his core is a good character.
on another note, i noticed that witch doctors can use bows. maybe they should have been given throwing spears. the lack of throwing weapons in the game leads me to believe that i think there's a possibility of a throwing weapon class in the expansion.
Yeah I just saw the bow thing on another beta run through. You would think given the tribal nature of the Witch Doctor they could throw spears, I mean even his animation with the spear fits him perfectly. I think if any class has a handle on ranged/physical it would be the DH BUT spears and javelin class....hrrrm...return of the Amazon?
Thanks for the heretic use, I'm currently on the Monk in research right no. I'll message you with that stuff though so we don't flood this board with our babble and other people can post their ideas
Simple, one character will be similar to druid, maybe half shifter.
Second, we don't have character with skills could be based at shield.
yeah these both seem really likely, I liked having both the werebear and werewolf in diablo 2, and it would be cool if they brought something similar to diablo 3, like one you could make slow swing speed but high damage/high crit and the other would be fast attack speed, also would do other "nature-y things" and the other could make use of weapons and items the other classes don't really use as their main weapons, as well as using shields, also having monk as the only class that can really heal seems kind of rough, although I know blizzard wanted each class to be mostly damage dealers and wanted to avoid having class roles
well in the book of cain they talk about 2 classes that lived on an island i believe it was skovos islesone was the amazon which was from d2 and the other was (ugh i can't think of the name i tried going thru the book but couldn't find it) but i think the name of that class will be the next playable char. if anyone knows what I'm talking about please respond lol
Can we wait to have D3 first before talking about expansion?
Also, blizzard better not bring a WoW class to D3, they better not...That includes the monk.
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that the development team kinda hate to making diablo like wow
but if so, during last years blizzcon when they announce demon hunter i saw one of the concepts part human part demon i really like that idea
the necromancer gains its resource points from killing. any creature that dies will give the necro a high value of its resource. what i mean is the necro gains resource in large clumps than say the barbarian or monk would.
the necro's summoning skills can work like auras. say you activate summon skeleton warrior aura. any creature that dies within range of the aura will be resurrected as a skeleton warrior. keeping the aura active will lower the total resource by lets say 10%. And the aura also has a cool down so like a skeleton warrior can be raised every 4 seconds. higher level skills, let say, summon skeleton mage. this aura lowers the resource by 20% and summons skeleton mages from dead monsters in range. and it has a cooldown of 7 seconds. a necromancer can have both auras active at the same time but this would lower its total resource to 70% for casting other spells. plus a skeleton warrior will be activated every 4 seconds, a mage every 7 seconds. if both spells are available the higher level one activates first.
so lets say in 28 seconds, you could have a total of 7 skeleton warriors and 4 skeleton mages around you. the timing is all changeable, i'm just giving an example to clarify my point. i really think this necromancer could work and be different enough from the witch doctor to make it into the expansion.
Oh, and you need corpses to summon creatures. Surely there aren't 44 corpses lying around in a single area...
You're almost on the same track as I am actually. Here let me share my ideas for a necro build. Hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed making it.
THE NECROMANCER
This idea was actually inspired from a D+D build, inspired by the Diablo D+D game, which was based on Diablo 1+2. Cool cycle huh? Anyway, here it is.
Short-short version: I went with a more Battle-Mage type Necromancer to make him play a little bit different from the original Necro who was primarily a ranged caster (optional builds not withstanding) Experienced players will notice similarities to a Paladin style of gameplay as well..
Detailed version: The original necromancer to me felt like a modern day general. He doesn’t exactly participate in the battle directly, but sets the battlefield to his advantage as his armies do the grunt work. That was awesome, but obviously things need to change for this game so I theorized ‘how can the necromancer, play differently but still have the old school charm?’ My answer was to turn the general, into a warlord. Much of his abilities (and his energy to use them) revolve around him being in combat rather than observing and acting from a distance. As you will see.
Resource: Death/Souls
'Souls' works similar to the Barbarian’s Fury in so much you generate it while in combat. UNLIKE the Barbarian however you gain souls only by killing your foes or being within ‘harvesting’ range of the dying foe. Your soul amount also does not degenerate over time. Souls are used to power all of your abilities so this forces the necromancer to partake in combat when depleted. You only receive ONE soul for every kill (exceptions may be elites, champions and bosses). Passive skills will increase the range of his harvest, ergo making him very effective in multiplayer when enemies slain by comrades start dropping.
The cost of his abilities would be relatively low given the circumstances required to generate. However he does have a limited capacity at first which can of course be improved upon by skills, runes, and items.
SKILLS
So here are the three skill types for the necro. I should say I did find it rather frustrating trying to come up with BETTER necromancer skills (Now I know how Blizzard felt). I had a few ideas for each listing after the classic spells the necromancer possessed that would fit in that set.
Torments
Note: I was originally going to call this set ‘afflictions’, but several red flags went up for obvious reasons so I renamed it to Torments.
Because the necromancer at lower levels needs to be in combat to generate soul power, even his added endurance and a good blade may not be enough to take on some foes. Enter our first skill type, Torments.
Torments act much like the Paladins auras and affect all enemies around the necromancer within range of the field. A Torment requires no soul power to activate or maintain but only ONE torment can be activated at any given time. Torments are the skills meant to turn the tide of battle and to make it easier to defeat foes in order to rack up souls. The range of an aura and its level of effect can be improved with runes and items.
Possible candidates:
Classics
Amplify Damage: Double damage
Weaken: Lessen enemy damage
Slow: Lessen enemy speed and mobility
Dim Vision: Lessen enemy precision
Absorb/Life Tap: Grant life per strike
Confuse: Turn enemies within range against each other
Resistance: Lowers resistance of enemies
Thorns: Damage returned to enemies
My little ideas:
Silent Reaper: You turn invisible to your enemies and strike without repercussions for a short while. Disengaging with the Torment still active will cause enemies to lose you so you may run back in the fray unnoticed after a short time.
Death’s Swift Hand: Allows you to strike multiple enemies at once, dealing less damage but greatly increasing attack speed.
Note: I would think it best to combine some of these into one. Such as Amplify Damage and Weaken.
Death Magic (Lame title I know…)
With the power of raw extinguished life in his hands the necromancer may channel their despair into destructive forces of his enemies worst nightmares. These are the bread and butter of the necromancer’s magical offense.
Possible Candidates:
Classics:
Teeth Equivalent
Bone Spear Equivalent
Bone Spirit Equivalent
My little ideas:
Spirit Wrack: This power infects the very soul of a creature, terrifying it and dealing % weapon damage over time while stunning the creature. If a creature dies while under this spell a soul is automatically added to the necromancer’s energy no matter where he is.
Imbue: Channel a dead soul into your weapon imbuing it with extra % weapon damage for a short period of time.
Vengeful Apparition: You release a soul from your control into the midst of battle. It screams and unearthly cry of sorrow which damages all enemies within radius for % weapon damage and stuns those affected. (Wail of Banshee, classic )
Fury of the Dead: This spell costs one soul for every kill you make, but also improves the damage, armor, and attack speed of the necromancer for every kill to a capped amount. Each time after the cap requires a soul to remain active.
Trang-oul's Avatar: This spell launches a large skeletal serpent into battle and devours all enemies within it's range for a short time. Every enemy slain by this spell is imbued with trang-oul's blessing and grants the necromancer 2 souls to his resource. HOWEVER each enemy devoured can not be used for re-animation spells due to consumption of corpse.
Reanimate
A necromancer can force a dead soul back into the world of the living to serve out his purposes. These skills revolve around the quintessential ability of the necromancer to reanimate dead matter and return it to form.
Bone Warrior: Targeting a corpse, a necromancer rends the bones from the body and gives them breath. A skeletal warrior will last until destroyed for its master. A necromancer can only have two Bone Warriors at any given time.
Spirit Mage: Similar to Bone Mage, however instead of a skeleton it is an apparition and as such does not require a corpse. Spirit mage is invulnerable to all enemy melee damage, lasts only a few moments and has a cooldown. Also the type of element chosen is, like bone mage, random.
Revive: Full reanimates a dead enemy to fight for you. Unlike the past, it is permanent and will not disappear after a time. However you can only have ONE revived creature at any given time.
Homunculus: A necromancer can make a clone of himself to fight for him. The clone retains all the active skills of the necromancer and uses them in combat, except for summoning spells. A corpse is required, the clone is temporary, and is on a cooldown.
Kamikaze Skeleton: Animates a skeleton that charges it's nearest enemy and explodes into the equivalent of Corpse Explosion dealing damage to all within its radius.
Other considerations:
Golems
Tempoarary army spell
Bone/ Wraith armor spell (Anyone get the Legacy of Kain reference? No? oh well.)
So there you have it guys. Mind you I obviously haven’t considered runes. One criticism I have is that the only real difference lies in its resource gathering but hey this is just meant to be shared. I’m trying to wrack my brain as to how to give him a few more melee abilities but every one I’ve come up with is very Monk-ish, Demon-Hunter-ish for it's own good. If I get some more ideas I’ll definitely share. Thanks for reading, I apologize for the long read and I shall close with this
P.S.
Just for fun, what I think the source could look like:
I think its safe to say that this is my fav fan class that i've seen so far. I love this Necromancer idea. I have a few idea to help you out. So in creating the necromancer, i think the first thing is to distance it from the witch doctor as far as possible. This is so that the necro will feel unique and to avoid overlaps.
Fighting Style
Is the necro a ranged fighter or a melee fighter when not using its spells? Or does it operate more like the wizard and witch doctor and relies heavily on its spells?
Resource
I think this system is excellent. No real qualms about it.
Torments
I think this is a beautiful name for the type of spells it casts. Curses are the bread and butter of any necro and this one is no different. My only suggestion is to remove confusion. Let that be in the realm of the witch doctor. Let the necro concentrate on weakening its opponents rather than turning them against each other.
Death Magic.
We need a name change.
I have a few suggestions for abilities.
Serpent Strike: Launches an snake-like apparition with fangs bared that shoots out in a straight line. All creatures it passes are diseased (damage over time) and/or slowed. (replaces bone spear)
Constriction: A serpent-like apparition appears and wraps itself around an enemy, strangling the life out of it. Mechanics wise, this would act like the Keeper of The Grove's entangling roots, damaging and immobilizing an enemy. Except you'll have this ghostly anaconda doing the constriction instead. (replaces bone spirit)
Vengeful apparition: Instead of stun, how about fear?
You're missing the classic corpse explosion!!!
Reanimation
Feel free to use my suggestion for reanimating aura mechanics. I think its quite original and make the necro stand out from the witch doctor. Plus, with these auras active, the summons will emerge automatically, allowing the necro to focus on fighting instead of animating. like autocast almost.
Kamikaze skeleton is too much like zombie charge for the witch doctor.
Please don't add any golem spells. You could add bone fiend which is a giant creature made from the corpses of multiple creatures. So this creature would be as strong as 2-5 corpses. If 3 corpses is a available, it'll have 3x HP, damage. 4 corpses 4x HP, damage blah blah. bone fiend or bone golem. lets keep the necro summons' bony and the witch doctor's fleshy.
Some other spell ideas:
1. Possession - Sends a spirit and takes control of a single creature. Has a big cooldown and doesn't work on bosses, unique creatures...
2. Wail of the Banshee - summons a banshee which starts singing a dirge. The dirge is so terrible, that monsters immediately start attacking the banshee to try and shut her up. But hitting her will only result in taking damage instead. i don't know if you want to make her temporary but invulnerable or give her x amount of HP. oh and she doesn't move from the spot she's summoned.
3. Death Totem - Any creature that dies around the totem will explode and damage nearby creatures. only downside is it creates no corpses.
4. We need 2 escape spells. Like barbarian has sprint and leaping attack, demon hunter has vault and smoke bomb, monk has inner sanctuary and serenity, wizard has teleport, witch doctor has spirit walk. the necro needs a way to get out of trouble.
That's all for now. If i think of anything else i will let you know.
As for the torments, yeah Confusion was one I wasn't feeling much either but I figured if the necro would have that ability it would go there.
Death Magic, yes I just couldn't think of a better name and actually hesitated to post this because of it What was I thinking?
Serpent Stirke: Sounds cool but I think that is just like the snake to the face runed poison dart ability of the WD no? Sure it substitutes DoT for stun but still the same principle. I think it would work better as a rune ability to the Trang-oul skill I mentioned to be honest
Constriction I like it reminds me of the suffocation D+D spell. I'll think of a way to tweek it a bit because something about it rubs me the wrong way. I'll probably know tomorrow as it's late where I am now.
As for the vengeful apparition spell it was a toss up between stun and fear. And I guess what it came down to was you want the enemies to be within harvesting range so running away would kind of be detremental, but on the other side this would encourage another build option and help out that escape thing you mentioned later in your post...
Corpse Explosion: I'll get to this.
Reanimation, I haven't played the beta but I'm almost certain none of the WD skills requires corpses for summoning. That in itself makes it unique from the WD. But I'm sure with enough thought the two ideas (aura and corpse) could be incorporated together.
As for kamikazee skeleton, yes it is like the charger however see what it does, it is actually a mobile corpse explosion! That is why I left it out of death magic to put a new spin on it.
Now the next thing intrigues me because I was playing around with this a bit. I was thinking about what would happen if multiple corpses were used for a summon and originally thought about that as a source until I came up with Souls. Definitely something to ponder. My current state of thinking is if you want a summon class different from the WD you have two options. One go with a mass summoner or have a class that can summon but summon one pet that you build upon as the game goes on. Since no one wants another lag-omancer, I am trying to figure out a part for the later and that may be a good starting point.
As for the rest
Possession: This is basically confusion or a reverse attract spell on a single target.
Wail of the Banshee: I think I had something like this already with vengeful apparition.
Death Totem: That's pretty cool. Mass Corpse Explosion without the mana drain. I'd throw a Cool down on it for now too.
Escape spells I whole heartedly agree with. With universal cool downs on a good deal of skills and even the potions, panic buttons barely exist in Diablo.
It's funny I'm actually taking this semi seriously, as if Blizzard is going to see this but I admit it is fun to do. Gives me some ideas for great characters.
Count me on board to create the necromancer!
For now I think we'll leave Death Magic as a placeholder til one of us or someone else comes up with a better name.
With regards to serpent strike being similar to snake to the face... Snake to face basically launches a tiny snake that latches on to an enemy face. Snake strike creates a large spectral force (not a physical one) that resembles a snake but shoots out in a line (the same size of the wizard's disintegration beam) and poisons all enemies it hits. it does not deal an initial large damage to creatures in its path. another way to make this different is to add seeking properties to it. so the snake actually homes in one enemies and seeks out new foes after its done poisoning old ones.
*i have another idea below that might incorporate this spell. if you prefer that one, disregard this one.
to me constriction is more about the visual that the mechanics. any spell can cause DOTs plus immobilization. the reason i'm choosing snakes is cause in a way snakes are related to dragons like Trag'Oul. So i kinda figured... maybe there's a connection between the two.
i think vengeful apparition could be a fear spell to chase enemies away while wail of the banshee attracts enemies in for "harvesting" purposes.
all witch doctor spells don't require corpses and are permanent til killed i think. fetish army is on a timer. so is charger. but dogs, spiders and gargantuans are not. i'm for the aura and corpses, not only to make the necro different but to free the necro from constantly summoning pets. making it kinda autocast will definitely show how terrifying the necro is in combat and a master of reanimation.
ok now for the mobile exploding zombie. here's where the * i put in earlier comes in.
lets say you want this mobile exploding creature. here's my idea. a bone spirit is summoned. a bone spirit looks like the skeletal remains of a snake and it hovers in the air when no enemies are present. when enemies come close, the spirit flies straight at them and smashes into them. this results in grievous damage to the target and the impact of the spirit sends shards of bones flying all over the place, damaging surrounding enemies. this way you get to merge the exploding mobile corpse idea with the snake idea and making it different from zombie charger and snake to the face. what say you?
i would go for large army of the pets. but if you use the aura mechanics, then you're sacrificing your total pool of souls to summon more powerful pets. so if you turn on the bone skeleton aura, your total pool is only 90% full, a bone golem would be 70% full and both together 60% full. this will make you wanna choose, ok do i want to sacrifice how much soul i can use to have a large pet army or do i want some pets and a larger pool to use my other skills.
i think we should aim for 22-24 active skills (we can do the passives later).
here's the breakdown of what we should aim for:
7-9 damage dealing spells (nuke, surrounds, AOE, etc)
about 6 summoning spells (bone guard, bone golem, bone mage, dunno if you wanna include bone spirit here)
about 2-4 crowd control spells that deal no or minimal damage but attracts, stuns, slows, disorients, fears and those kinda effects.
5-6 curses. maybe some will get incorporated into the crowd control and others into the direct damage dealing spells.
1-2 escape spells.
2-3 support spells, or misc spells.
in any case i think maybe we should aim for 23 active skills using the combination above.
it is fun to do, and who knows? maybe blizzard might take a look. looking forward to seeing your ideas tmrw.
Life Tap - At level 10 or something, the necromancer can gain this ability to basically sacrifice life for resource. this is because the way the necro's soul resource works depends on the amount of creatures killed, sometimes a necro might find itself without any resource and stuck in a bad predicament. instead of punishing the player for his/her mistake, the necro can use this ability to gain resource and get out of the situation. of course, it'll have a long cooldown so the player won't heavily rely on it and make things too easy.
Druids don´t always have to be bearded big guys wearing a wolfskin.
Why not combine the crusader theme with the nature-flavor?
I made a sketch of what I think the next class should look like
Although I pretty much doubt a lot of people would go for it.
Cheers!
@nineteen
Again a large army will not work, for server reasons. If we due have a mass summon it will probably function like the fetish army, tempoarary and a on shot. Life Tap I like and can be thrown into Death Magic. Still not feeling the constrictor skill though I think it is border line redundant really.
Now see there's the problem with the aura mechanic. I don't think the player would appreciate a lack of control of what is summoned and the expenditure of a a soul point. I mean I'd rather control directly what I summon. It's still a cool idea but I don't think it could function properly. Maybe ONE ability can make use of this but not a whole system dedicated to it.
Tell you what I'm going to look at the current talent trees via Skill calculators and then shoot you a number that coincides with yours in mind. Don't forget we haven't even considered passives yet.
wait a minute...
are you telling me that the witch doctor pets are controllable? if you are... SWEET!!!!!!
let me know what skills you have in mind (as detailed as possible) and i will help you out with them.
Wait what? No no no, sorry you read that wrong. What I meant was if an aura of summoning automatically summons pets then what happens is you end up summoning what you don't really want or need. That's what I meant by control. Sorry I should've typed that better.
@adslalex
Don't be sorry, we're all just shooting ideas. Though if the tulpa summon passes it has to be with the theme every time you summon it.
Besides I'm finding this thread a very fun thread compared to the abundance of 'Why game no release date/ have purdy graphics/why no beta threads that are flooding the general boards.
EDIT: Oh BTW nineteen I read over your heretic class, I don't know how I missed that, you think some things in there could work for the necro? And if so do you mind if I incorporate some ideas into our build?
thanks!
i had this idea for a "druid" character called the warden, who is basically a ranged spear/axe thrower that also uses nature magic like summoning animal spirits to imbue his weapons. like infusing the spirit of the bull into the spear to make it stun enemies who get hit, or spirit of the porcupine to make the spear split into five pieces as it is thrown. also it summons animal totems like the hawk to increase damage, crit chance and speed of the weapons used, a stampede of bulls to rush an enemy, jaguars to slash enemies in an area, stuff like that. also the constriction and snake strike ideas i suggested for the necro come from here. the warden uses "chi" as its resource which is split into yin and yang. as yin is used up, yang gets filled. some abilities are powered by yin and the other yang. so its a juggling of both resources to utilized this character best.
@NecromancerKazuya
ah i see now, i get your point with the auras. well, if you don't need that type of pet, you could turn the aura off and increase your total available "soul". i don't know, the mechanics around it might seem a little complex now that i think about it.
oh go ahead and scavenge whatever you need from the heretic. i have no problems with that (better the ideas get used and if blizzard sees it, woo hoo!, than to be tossed away at the wayside). i think the curses would work well and the wailing banshee idea i suggested is basically a copy of the cackling effigy. i think we should stick to your soul idea for the resource cuz my pain idea is only usable if the character is somewhat evil, and the necro at his core is a good character.
on another note, i noticed that witch doctors can use bows. maybe they should have been given throwing spears. the lack of throwing weapons in the game leads me to believe that i think there's a possibility of a throwing weapon class in the expansion.
Thanks for the heretic use, I'm currently on the Monk in research right no. I'll message you with that stuff though so we don't flood this board with our babble and other people can post their ideas
Also, blizzard better not bring a WoW class to D3, they better not...That includes the monk.