One question though, let's say we receive a beta key before then (astronomical odds but just in case) is there a way we can like pull our submission or just say 'Hey I have one already'?
The file dump is 404'd btw.
Yeah I just saw the bow thing on another beta run through. You would think given the tribal nature of the Witch Doctor they could throw spears, I mean even his animation with the spear fits him perfectly. I think if any class has a handle on ranged/physical it would be the DH BUT spears and javelin class....hrrrm...return of the Amazon?
Thanks for the heretic use, I'm currently on the Monk in research right no. I'll message you with that stuff though so we don't flood this board with our babble and other people can post their ideas
Wait what? No no no, sorry you read that wrong. What I meant was if an aura of summoning automatically summons pets then what happens is you end up summoning what you don't really want or need. That's what I meant by control. Sorry I should've typed that better.
@adslalex
Don't be sorry, we're all just shooting ideas. Though if the tulpa summon passes it has to be with the theme every time you summon it.
Besides I'm finding this thread a very fun thread compared to the abundance of 'Why game no release date/ have purdy graphics/why no beta threads that are flooding the general boards.
EDIT: Oh BTW nineteen I read over your heretic class, I don't know how I missed that, you think some things in there could work for the necro? And if so do you mind if I incorporate some ideas into our build?
@Airnesto: Not too shabby. Probably would call it a Sentinel class. I'm actually working on a drawing for my class too.
@nineteen
Again a large army will not work, for server reasons. If we due have a mass summon it will probably function like the fetish army, tempoarary and a on shot. Life Tap I like and can be thrown into Death Magic. Still not feeling the constrictor skill though I think it is border line redundant really.
Now see there's the problem with the aura mechanic. I don't think the player would appreciate a lack of control of what is summoned and the expenditure of a a soul point. I mean I'd rather control directly what I summon. It's still a cool idea but I don't think it could function properly. Maybe ONE ability can make use of this but not a whole system dedicated to it.
Tell you what I'm going to look at the current talent trees via Skill calculators and then shoot you a number that coincides with yours in mind. Don't forget we haven't even considered passives yet.
Thank you nineteen. I knew you'd appreciate it. My goal was actually to distance him from the original necro since that was the major issue Blizzard has. I figured I'd hammer out the WD details down the line if I had time and people were interested.
As for the torments, yeah Confusion was one I wasn't feeling much either but I figured if the necro would have that ability it would go there.
Death Magic, yes I just couldn't think of a better name and actually hesitated to post this because of it What was I thinking?
Serpent Stirke: Sounds cool but I think that is just like the snake to the face runed poison dart ability of the WD no? Sure it substitutes DoT for stun but still the same principle. I think it would work better as a rune ability to the Trang-oul skill I mentioned to be honest
Constriction I like it reminds me of the suffocation D+D spell. I'll think of a way to tweek it a bit because something about it rubs me the wrong way. I'll probably know tomorrow as it's late where I am now.
As for the vengeful apparition spell it was a toss up between stun and fear. And I guess what it came down to was you want the enemies to be within harvesting range so running away would kind of be detremental, but on the other side this would encourage another build option and help out that escape thing you mentioned later in your post...
Corpse Explosion: I'll get to this.
Reanimation, I haven't played the beta but I'm almost certain none of the WD skills requires corpses for summoning. That in itself makes it unique from the WD. But I'm sure with enough thought the two ideas (aura and corpse) could be incorporated together.
As for kamikazee skeleton, yes it is like the charger however see what it does, it is actually a mobile corpse explosion! That is why I left it out of death magic to put a new spin on it.
Now the next thing intrigues me because I was playing around with this a bit. I was thinking about what would happen if multiple corpses were used for a summon and originally thought about that as a source until I came up with Souls. Definitely something to ponder. My current state of thinking is if you want a summon class different from the WD you have two options. One go with a mass summoner or have a class that can summon but summon one pet that you build upon as the game goes on. Since no one wants another lag-omancer, I am trying to figure out a part for the later and that may be a good starting point.
As for the rest
Possession: This is basically confusion or a reverse attract spell on a single target.
Wail of the Banshee: I think I had something like this already with vengeful apparition.
Death Totem: That's pretty cool. Mass Corpse Explosion without the mana drain. I'd throw a Cool down on it for now too.
Escape spells I whole heartedly agree with. With universal cool downs on a good deal of skills and even the potions, panic buttons barely exist in Diablo.
It's funny I'm actually taking this semi seriously, as if Blizzard is going to see this but I admit it is fun to do. Gives me some ideas for great characters.
You're almost on the same track as I am actually. Here let me share my ideas for a necro build. Hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed making it.
THE NECROMANCER
This idea was actually inspired from a D+D build, inspired by the Diablo D+D game, which was based on Diablo 1+2. Cool cycle huh? Anyway, here it is.
Short-short version: I went with a more Battle-Mage type Necromancer to make him play a little bit different from the original Necro who was primarily a ranged caster (optional builds not withstanding) Experienced players will notice similarities to a Paladin style of gameplay as well..
Detailed version: The original necromancer to me felt like a modern day general. He doesn’t exactly participate in the battle directly, but sets the battlefield to his advantage as his armies do the grunt work. That was awesome, but obviously things need to change for this game so I theorized ‘how can the necromancer, play differently but still have the old school charm?’ My answer was to turn the general, into a warlord. Much of his abilities (and his energy to use them) revolve around him being in combat rather than observing and acting from a distance. As you will see.
Resource: Death/Souls
'Souls' works similar to the Barbarian’s Fury in so much you generate it while in combat. UNLIKE the Barbarian however you gain souls only by killing your foes or being within ‘harvesting’ range of the dying foe. Your soul amount also does not degenerate over time. Souls are used to power all of your abilities so this forces the necromancer to partake in combat when depleted. You only receive ONE soul for every kill (exceptions may be elites, champions and bosses). Passive skills will increase the range of his harvest, ergo making him very effective in multiplayer when enemies slain by comrades start dropping.
The cost of his abilities would be relatively low given the circumstances required to generate. However he does have a limited capacity at first which can of course be improved upon by skills, runes, and items.
SKILLS
So here are the three skill types for the necro. I should say I did find it rather frustrating trying to come up with BETTER necromancer skills (Now I know how Blizzard felt). I had a few ideas for each listing after the classic spells the necromancer possessed that would fit in that set.
Torments
Note: I was originally going to call this set ‘afflictions’, but several red flags went up for obvious reasons so I renamed it to Torments.
Because the necromancer at lower levels needs to be in combat to generate soul power, even his added endurance and a good blade may not be enough to take on some foes. Enter our first skill type, Torments.
Torments act much like the Paladins auras and affect all enemies around the necromancer within range of the field. A Torment requires no soul power to activate or maintain but only ONE torment can be activated at any given time. Torments are the skills meant to turn the tide of battle and to make it easier to defeat foes in order to rack up souls. The range of an aura and its level of effect can be improved with runes and items.
Possible candidates:
Classics
Amplify Damage: Double damage
Weaken: Lessen enemy damage
Slow: Lessen enemy speed and mobility
Dim Vision: Lessen enemy precision
Absorb/Life Tap: Grant life per strike
Confuse: Turn enemies within range against each other
Resistance: Lowers resistance of enemies
Thorns: Damage returned to enemies
My little ideas:
Silent Reaper: You turn invisible to your enemies and strike without repercussions for a short while. Disengaging with the Torment still active will cause enemies to lose you so you may run back in the fray unnoticed after a short time.
Death’s Swift Hand: Allows you to strike multiple enemies at once, dealing less damage but greatly increasing attack speed.
Note: I would think it best to combine some of these into one. Such as Amplify Damage and Weaken.
Death Magic (Lame title I know…)
With the power of raw extinguished life in his hands the necromancer may channel their despair into destructive forces of his enemies worst nightmares. These are the bread and butter of the necromancer’s magical offense.
Possible Candidates:
Classics:
Teeth Equivalent
Bone Spear Equivalent
Bone Spirit Equivalent
My little ideas:
Spirit Wrack: This power infects the very soul of a creature, terrifying it and dealing % weapon damage over time while stunning the creature. If a creature dies while under this spell a soul is automatically added to the necromancer’s energy no matter where he is.
Imbue: Channel a dead soul into your weapon imbuing it with extra % weapon damage for a short period of time.
Vengeful Apparition: You release a soul from your control into the midst of battle. It screams and unearthly cry of sorrow which damages all enemies within radius for % weapon damage and stuns those affected. (Wail of Banshee, classic )
Fury of the Dead: This spell costs one soul for every kill you make, but also improves the damage, armor, and attack speed of the necromancer for every kill to a capped amount. Each time after the cap requires a soul to remain active.
Trang-oul's Avatar: This spell launches a large skeletal serpent into battle and devours all enemies within it's range for a short time. Every enemy slain by this spell is imbued with trang-oul's blessing and grants the necromancer 2 souls to his resource. HOWEVER each enemy devoured can not be used for re-animation spells due to consumption of corpse.
Reanimate
A necromancer can force a dead soul back into the world of the living to serve out his purposes. These skills revolve around the quintessential ability of the necromancer to reanimate dead matter and return it to form.
Bone Warrior: Targeting a corpse, a necromancer rends the bones from the body and gives them breath. A skeletal warrior will last until destroyed for its master. A necromancer can only have two Bone Warriors at any given time.
Spirit Mage: Similar to Bone Mage, however instead of a skeleton it is an apparition and as such does not require a corpse. Spirit mage is invulnerable to all enemy melee damage, lasts only a few moments and has a cooldown. Also the type of element chosen is, like bone mage, random.
Revive: Full reanimates a dead enemy to fight for you. Unlike the past, it is permanent and will not disappear after a time. However you can only have ONE revived creature at any given time.
Homunculus: A necromancer can make a clone of himself to fight for him. The clone retains all the active skills of the necromancer and uses them in combat, except for summoning spells. A corpse is required, the clone is temporary, and is on a cooldown.
Kamikaze Skeleton: Animates a skeleton that charges it's nearest enemy and explodes into the equivalent of Corpse Explosion dealing damage to all within its radius.
Other considerations:
Golems
Tempoarary army spell
Bone/ Wraith armor spell (Anyone get the Legacy of Kain reference? No? oh well.)
So there you have it guys. Mind you I obviously haven’t considered runes. One criticism I have is that the only real difference lies in its resource gathering but hey this is just meant to be shared. I’m trying to wrack my brain as to how to give him a few more melee abilities but every one I’ve come up with is very Monk-ish, Demon-Hunter-ish for it's own good. If I get some more ideas I’ll definitely share. Thanks for reading, I apologize for the long read and I shall close with this
P.S.
Just for fun, what I think the source could look like:
Actually new characters in expansions is nothing new to Diablo. Remember Lord of Destruction featured two new classes, the Assassin and the Druid. This was well before WoW.
I was going to be ok with no release date announcement, but this award show has been the single most painful experience of my life I expected at least something more. Very nice trailer though...grumble grumble
That is probably the one thing that keps a January release date alive for me and the thing that all but ensures tonight's release date reveal. Unfortunately my time filler game is already here in the form of Skyrim
@Zaagazug Perhaps I worded that a little too doomy. I didn't mean slap like QQ'ing slap. I just meant it would be disappointing because we're all thinking it and most are expecting it. Come on, we'd all be disappointed, if just a little bit, of no release date announcement tonight. A slap doesn't have to be a heavy one.
@JaundiceBunny Well I wouldn't go THAT far but a slap nonetheless. Ah Urb. Dictionary, what wonders you have.
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One question though, let's say we receive a beta key before then (astronomical odds but just in case) is there a way we can like pull our submission or just say 'Hey I have one already'?
The file dump is 404'd btw.
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Thanks for the heretic use, I'm currently on the Monk in research right no. I'll message you with that stuff though so we don't flood this board with our babble and other people can post their ideas
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Wait what? No no no, sorry you read that wrong. What I meant was if an aura of summoning automatically summons pets then what happens is you end up summoning what you don't really want or need. That's what I meant by control. Sorry I should've typed that better.
@adslalex
Don't be sorry, we're all just shooting ideas. Though if the tulpa summon passes it has to be with the theme every time you summon it.
Besides I'm finding this thread a very fun thread compared to the abundance of 'Why game no release date/ have purdy graphics/why no beta threads that are flooding the general boards.
EDIT: Oh BTW nineteen I read over your heretic class, I don't know how I missed that, you think some things in there could work for the necro? And if so do you mind if I incorporate some ideas into our build?
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@nineteen
Again a large army will not work, for server reasons. If we due have a mass summon it will probably function like the fetish army, tempoarary and a on shot. Life Tap I like and can be thrown into Death Magic. Still not feeling the constrictor skill though I think it is border line redundant really.
Now see there's the problem with the aura mechanic. I don't think the player would appreciate a lack of control of what is summoned and the expenditure of a a soul point. I mean I'd rather control directly what I summon. It's still a cool idea but I don't think it could function properly. Maybe ONE ability can make use of this but not a whole system dedicated to it.
Tell you what I'm going to look at the current talent trees via Skill calculators and then shoot you a number that coincides with yours in mind. Don't forget we haven't even considered passives yet.
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As for the torments, yeah Confusion was one I wasn't feeling much either but I figured if the necro would have that ability it would go there.
Death Magic, yes I just couldn't think of a better name and actually hesitated to post this because of it
Serpent Stirke: Sounds cool but I think that is just like the snake to the face runed poison dart ability of the WD no? Sure it substitutes DoT for stun but still the same principle. I think it would work better as a rune ability to the Trang-oul skill I mentioned to be honest
Constriction I like it reminds me of the suffocation D+D spell. I'll think of a way to tweek it a bit because something about it rubs me the wrong way. I'll probably know tomorrow as it's late where I am now.
As for the vengeful apparition spell it was a toss up between stun and fear. And I guess what it came down to was you want the enemies to be within harvesting range so running away would kind of be detremental, but on the other side this would encourage another build option and help out that escape thing you mentioned later in your post...
Corpse Explosion: I'll get to this.
Reanimation, I haven't played the beta but I'm almost certain none of the WD skills requires corpses for summoning. That in itself makes it unique from the WD. But I'm sure with enough thought the two ideas (aura and corpse) could be incorporated together.
As for kamikazee skeleton, yes it is like the charger however see what it does, it is actually a mobile corpse explosion! That is why I left it out of death magic to put a new spin on it.
Now the next thing intrigues me because I was playing around with this a bit. I was thinking about what would happen if multiple corpses were used for a summon and originally thought about that as a source until I came up with Souls. Definitely something to ponder. My current state of thinking is if you want a summon class different from the WD you have two options. One go with a mass summoner or have a class that can summon but summon one pet that you build upon as the game goes on. Since no one wants another lag-omancer, I am trying to figure out a part for the later and that may be a good starting point.
As for the rest
Possession: This is basically confusion or a reverse attract spell on a single target.
Wail of the Banshee: I think I had something like this already with vengeful apparition.
Death Totem: That's pretty cool. Mass Corpse Explosion without the mana drain. I'd throw a Cool down on it for now too.
Escape spells I whole heartedly agree with. With universal cool downs on a good deal of skills and even the potions, panic buttons barely exist in Diablo.
It's funny I'm actually taking this semi seriously, as if Blizzard is going to see this but I admit it is fun to do. Gives me some ideas for great characters.
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You're almost on the same track as I am actually. Here let me share my ideas for a necro build. Hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed making it.
THE NECROMANCER
This idea was actually inspired from a D+D build, inspired by the Diablo D+D game, which was based on Diablo 1+2. Cool cycle huh? Anyway, here it is.
Short-short version: I went with a more Battle-Mage type Necromancer to make him play a little bit different from the original Necro who was primarily a ranged caster (optional builds not withstanding) Experienced players will notice similarities to a Paladin style of gameplay as well..
Detailed version: The original necromancer to me felt like a modern day general. He doesn’t exactly participate in the battle directly, but sets the battlefield to his advantage as his armies do the grunt work. That was awesome, but obviously things need to change for this game so I theorized ‘how can the necromancer, play differently but still have the old school charm?’ My answer was to turn the general, into a warlord. Much of his abilities (and his energy to use them) revolve around him being in combat rather than observing and acting from a distance. As you will see.
Resource: Death/Souls
'Souls' works similar to the Barbarian’s Fury in so much you generate it while in combat. UNLIKE the Barbarian however you gain souls only by killing your foes or being within ‘harvesting’ range of the dying foe. Your soul amount also does not degenerate over time. Souls are used to power all of your abilities so this forces the necromancer to partake in combat when depleted. You only receive ONE soul for every kill (exceptions may be elites, champions and bosses). Passive skills will increase the range of his harvest, ergo making him very effective in multiplayer when enemies slain by comrades start dropping.
The cost of his abilities would be relatively low given the circumstances required to generate. However he does have a limited capacity at first which can of course be improved upon by skills, runes, and items.
SKILLS
So here are the three skill types for the necro. I should say I did find it rather frustrating trying to come up with BETTER necromancer skills (Now I know how Blizzard felt). I had a few ideas for each listing after the classic spells the necromancer possessed that would fit in that set.
Torments
Note: I was originally going to call this set ‘afflictions’, but several red flags went up for obvious reasons so I renamed it to Torments.
Because the necromancer at lower levels needs to be in combat to generate soul power, even his added endurance and a good blade may not be enough to take on some foes. Enter our first skill type, Torments.
Torments act much like the Paladins auras and affect all enemies around the necromancer within range of the field. A Torment requires no soul power to activate or maintain but only ONE torment can be activated at any given time. Torments are the skills meant to turn the tide of battle and to make it easier to defeat foes in order to rack up souls. The range of an aura and its level of effect can be improved with runes and items.
Possible candidates:
Classics
Amplify Damage: Double damage
Weaken: Lessen enemy damage
Slow: Lessen enemy speed and mobility
Dim Vision: Lessen enemy precision
Absorb/Life Tap: Grant life per strike
Confuse: Turn enemies within range against each other
Resistance: Lowers resistance of enemies
Thorns: Damage returned to enemies
My little ideas:
Silent Reaper: You turn invisible to your enemies and strike without repercussions for a short while. Disengaging with the Torment still active will cause enemies to lose you so you may run back in the fray unnoticed after a short time.
Death’s Swift Hand: Allows you to strike multiple enemies at once, dealing less damage but greatly increasing attack speed.
Note: I would think it best to combine some of these into one. Such as Amplify Damage and Weaken.
Death Magic (Lame title I know…)
With the power of raw extinguished life in his hands the necromancer may channel their despair into destructive forces of his enemies worst nightmares. These are the bread and butter of the necromancer’s magical offense.
Possible Candidates:
Classics:
Teeth Equivalent
Bone Spear Equivalent
Bone Spirit Equivalent
My little ideas:
Spirit Wrack: This power infects the very soul of a creature, terrifying it and dealing % weapon damage over time while stunning the creature. If a creature dies while under this spell a soul is automatically added to the necromancer’s energy no matter where he is.
Imbue: Channel a dead soul into your weapon imbuing it with extra % weapon damage for a short period of time.
Vengeful Apparition: You release a soul from your control into the midst of battle. It screams and unearthly cry of sorrow which damages all enemies within radius for % weapon damage and stuns those affected. (Wail of Banshee, classic
Fury of the Dead: This spell costs one soul for every kill you make, but also improves the damage, armor, and attack speed of the necromancer for every kill to a capped amount. Each time after the cap requires a soul to remain active.
Trang-oul's Avatar: This spell launches a large skeletal serpent into battle and devours all enemies within it's range for a short time. Every enemy slain by this spell is imbued with trang-oul's blessing and grants the necromancer 2 souls to his resource. HOWEVER each enemy devoured can not be used for re-animation spells due to consumption of corpse.
Reanimate
A necromancer can force a dead soul back into the world of the living to serve out his purposes. These skills revolve around the quintessential ability of the necromancer to reanimate dead matter and return it to form.
Bone Warrior: Targeting a corpse, a necromancer rends the bones from the body and gives them breath. A skeletal warrior will last until destroyed for its master. A necromancer can only have two Bone Warriors at any given time.
Spirit Mage: Similar to Bone Mage, however instead of a skeleton it is an apparition and as such does not require a corpse. Spirit mage is invulnerable to all enemy melee damage, lasts only a few moments and has a cooldown. Also the type of element chosen is, like bone mage, random.
Revive: Full reanimates a dead enemy to fight for you. Unlike the past, it is permanent and will not disappear after a time. However you can only have ONE revived creature at any given time.
Homunculus: A necromancer can make a clone of himself to fight for him. The clone retains all the active skills of the necromancer and uses them in combat, except for summoning spells. A corpse is required, the clone is temporary, and is on a cooldown.
Kamikaze Skeleton: Animates a skeleton that charges it's nearest enemy and explodes into the equivalent of Corpse Explosion dealing damage to all within its radius.
Other considerations:
Golems
Tempoarary army spell
Bone/ Wraith armor spell (Anyone get the Legacy of Kain reference? No? oh well.)
So there you have it guys. Mind you I obviously haven’t considered runes. One criticism I have is that the only real difference lies in its resource gathering but hey this is just meant to be shared. I’m trying to wrack my brain as to how to give him a few more melee abilities but every one I’ve come up with is very Monk-ish, Demon-Hunter-ish for it's own good. If I get some more ideas I’ll definitely share. Thanks for reading, I apologize for the long read and I shall close with this
P.S.
Just for fun, what I think the source could look like:
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That is probably the one thing that keps a January release date alive for me and the thing that all but ensures tonight's release date reveal. Unfortunately my time filler game is already here in the form of Skyrim
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@JaundiceBunny