hi, so my view is that the more time the game has been out the easier it will be to clear inferno. this is because of ppl getting saturated with better and better gear, so price on decent gear is falling.
however, i did see a video of kripparrian where he had bought a very good 1h sword very early for an amount which is far lower than it would have cost today. but this is maybe just some effect of being of the very first players to progress to a late stadium of the game, and therefore not representative of what is happening to gear prices now. (or no?)
so does this mean that what i have achieved in 150 hours will be achieved by players in the future in 80hrs? this demotivates me to play, because i know i can just wait and have better progress later. it feels kind of a waste of time.
of course ppl could argue that "u shouldnt worry so much about what other players are doing" so i will limit this discussion to not include any arguments of this form.
so any opinions? what are other ppl thinking about this?
You are demotivated to play because in the future, players might be able to achieve the same as you in half the time, which means you really care about what other people are doing. Then you don't want this to be part of the discussion, which doesn't make sense.
It's almost like a top end raiding guild in WoW not wanting to progress sooner because other guilds will be able to do it in half the time later down the road because of gear. If D3 has any expansions, are you not going to play them because the new gear will make fresh 60's smash everything we are grinding through in Vanilla?
It's the nature of any game. The longer the game is out, the amount of upgrades on the market increases which makes it easier to do progression. It took me a long time to get through Inferno on my barb from the date of release, but I'm flying through it painlessly on my DH because gear is so much cheaper than before.
Edit- I'm not even concerning myself with the devaluation of gold today or in the future. Even if prices skyrocket for the best items in the game, they would be nice to own, but it's not mandatory to have them to be successful in Inferno. There are so many mid-high items selling for such low prices, it's not even worth worrying if people are listing the best weapons for hundreds of millions of gold.
of course ppl could argue that "u shouldnt worry so much about what other players are doing" so i will limit this discussion to not include any arguments of this form.
In other words, you're not interested in a discussion -- you're interested in people agreeing with you. Because, honestly, you just cut out the only real argument there is against your point.
The fact of the matter is that you should never play a game with any concerns about how other people are playing it. Yes, you could wait until the market is so saturated with cheap goods that you can just buy a full set for cheap. But, guess what? That's just letting other people play the game for you.
Here's my suggestion, OP: Quit reading the forums. Just drop out of the community and play the game. If it's fun, keep playing. If it's not, stop playing. If you stop playing, try again a few months/years down the road and see if it has gotten any better. But don't let other people's progress or ease of play influence you, because that is stupid.
I think I'm going to wait for GW2 to be out for a while, that way after a few expansions I can go pick up the best gear and smash through what would have been challenging, original content with it.
You are demotivated to play because in the future, players might be able to achieve the same as you in half the time, which means you really care about what other people are doing. Then you don't want this to be part of the discussion, which doesn't make sense.
yes i do care what other ppl are doing and im not looking to find a reason not to, that is why i dont wanna hear the "think about yourself instead" argument, because its so obvious and simple that anyone know it, its just completely trivial. and this thread is not really me making a statement about the game mechanic being bad or anything, its merely for me to learn whether or not im right about the difficulty varying as a function of time
kooqu: read my reply to doez, it is clear that im not here for a discussion on wheter its bad or not bad that the difficulty is varying. im here just to learn whether or not its true that the difficulty is varying. your whole post is really only talking about stuff that i said was irrelevant in this thread, that is quite an achievement when u think about it.
There are 2 things here. First is of course those people who start later will get same gear much easier and cheaper than you get, BUT if you start later it's harder to make gold / money. Most of the people are already in inferno farming and there are lots of competition in terms of high-end items, also players know prices on AH so it's much harder to get cheap deals there.
So overall, yeah, if you start later it's easier to gear up the character but at the same time it's much better to start earlier if you want to make profit.
that is interresting, i wonder which effect is strongest.
Diablo is and always has been an item based game. If you choose to buy the gear instead of find it, it will be easier.
The prices on low-med end gear will decrease as the game gets older (it's already amazingly cheap) and it's possible to fairly easily beat the game with this gear. Really though, it's not that the game is easier, it's that the price is lower. You could have just spent a ton of real money when the RMAH came out and instantly "made the game easier".
Keep in mind there are rewards for completing the game before others. It's mostly past by now but the people that cleared the game early on enjoyed some real nice AH sales for items that quite honestly weren't very good. I made a lot of gold on items that are now worth 5-10k. I don't feel like my time was wasted just because someone can now buy gear for under a million and do what I did previously.
If you're looking for a challenge, don't use the AH, it's that simple.
kooqu: read my reply to doez, it is clear that im not here for a discussion on wheter its bad or not bad that the difficulty is varying. im here just to learn whether or not its true that the difficulty is varying. your whole post is really only talking about stuff that i said was irrelevant in this thread, that is quite an achievement when u think about it.
Yes, the difficulty of the base game will obviously vary between now and 5 months/a year/5 years from now. Of course, expansions and content updates will change the balance of certain aspects of the game. For instance, the expansion will almost certainly be easier for people who play now than people who start playing when the expansion releases.
But you also have to consider the fact that when items get devalued to the point where they're selling for 5-10k on the AH, most people will simply start vendoring them. At that point, you're, once again, dealing with high-priced expansion items because no one bothers selling anything but the best "old Diablo 3" items.
The effect of expansions and content updates are hard to predict. Will the expansion raise the level cap? If so, then all current level 60 items pretty much become worthless. If not, then the new item tiers will severely devalue the current item tiers, possibly to the point of removing them from the market.
In other words, no one can predict what it's going to be like beyond the almost certainty that it will be slightly easier.
You can progress through the game, work hard, and beat it in a couple weeks (or whatever time-frame your skill level allows), or you can let other people play the game for a year and then show up and beat it with barely any effort as a result of their auction house throwaways. It would not be unfair to describe this as akin to cheat codes.
Personally, I feel that the latter would cheapen the experience. Hell, the experience might completely change between now and then and you might never get a chance to play Diablo 3, as it is now, ever again.
If you just want another boring, easy game to play, go ahead and wait. You'll probably forget the game exists and never play it again. Honestly, it sounds like maybe you should just finish the game on Hell and be done with it. Either way, you're going to get a cheapened, easy experience.
It's fairly easy to explain the phenomena you're talking about OP.
-Prices in general are trending downward as more supply (items) are in the market
-Prices for items in popular builds are trending upward as demand (ie. from krip's videos) out-paces the increasing supply
Compound that with the fact many tornado/ww barbs keep several weapon swaps (which means demand is going to be astronomically high, as every barb will want 4-6 different weapons with ideal stats) and you have today's 30mil gold 600 dps 1h crit/LoH weapons.
Eventually, demand will be met there too and prices will drop, but I wouldn't bank on that happening very soon with ww/tornado being increasingly popular, even weeks after it's big video adverts. The good news is you can get big crit dmg and primary stat weapons for comparatively cheap. The bad news is without those snazzy crit/LoH weapons you'll be loath to use a build that is lacking sustain skills like furious charge - dreadnaught or revenge.
You can progress through the game, work hard, and beat it in a couple weeks (or whatever time-frame your skill level allows), or you can let other people play the game for a year and then show up and beat it with barely any effort as a result of their auction house throwaways. It would not be unfair to describe this as akin to cheat codes.
Personally, I feel that the latter would cheapen the experience. Hell, the experience might completely change between now and then and you might never get a chance to play Diablo 3, as it is now, ever again.
If you just want another boring, easy game to play, go ahead and wait. You'll probably forget the game exists and never play it again. Honestly, it sounds like maybe you should just finish the game on Hell and be done with it. Either way, you're going to get a cheapened, easy experience.
i have completed inferno (125 hrs barb), im not after a cheap mindless experience. i would prefer the game to not have normal through hell difficulties as i view these to be worth zero of anything.
but i am uninspired to grind for better gear, since the product of grinding is going to devalue with time. i dislike the experience of grinding if it is performed just for the sake of grinding, but i do enjoy grinding when the product of grinding is something that has value. so its not the act of grinding in itself that i seek, but more the feeling of being on the way to a more valuable character, which is triggered by grinding. but if i grind 15 hrs the next days to increase the worth of my items and then take a break for a month before i return to play, then my grinding was basically worthless because i can get better gear from the ah by just staring out the window instead. and since the grinding was worthless, this doesnt trigger the "im on my way to a more valuable character"-feeling, meaning that the grinding is just for the sake of grinding.
i would prefer the game to not have normal through hell difficulties as i view these to be worth zero of anything.
Huh?
this was merely to show a poster here that im not after a easy/boring/walk in the park game. what i meant is that the normal, nightmare and hell difficulties could have been left out of the game. i dont see what these difficulties bring to the table except for a streamline grind that anyone can do. probably there is not a single player in the world that finds this content challenging. but this is just an opinion on a digression, its not really what is to be discussed in this thread.
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however, i did see a video of kripparrian where he had bought a very good 1h sword very early for an amount which is far lower than it would have cost today. but this is maybe just some effect of being of the very first players to progress to a late stadium of the game, and therefore not representative of what is happening to gear prices now. (or no?)
so does this mean that what i have achieved in 150 hours will be achieved by players in the future in 80hrs? this demotivates me to play, because i know i can just wait and have better progress later. it feels kind of a waste of time.
of course ppl could argue that "u shouldnt worry so much about what other players are doing" so i will limit this discussion to not include any arguments of this form.
so any opinions? what are other ppl thinking about this?
It's almost like a top end raiding guild in WoW not wanting to progress sooner because other guilds will be able to do it in half the time later down the road because of gear. If D3 has any expansions, are you not going to play them because the new gear will make fresh 60's smash everything we are grinding through in Vanilla?
It's the nature of any game. The longer the game is out, the amount of upgrades on the market increases which makes it easier to do progression. It took me a long time to get through Inferno on my barb from the date of release, but I'm flying through it painlessly on my DH because gear is so much cheaper than before.
Edit- I'm not even concerning myself with the devaluation of gold today or in the future. Even if prices skyrocket for the best items in the game, they would be nice to own, but it's not mandatory to have them to be successful in Inferno. There are so many mid-high items selling for such low prices, it's not even worth worrying if people are listing the best weapons for hundreds of millions of gold.
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The fact of the matter is that you should never play a game with any concerns about how other people are playing it. Yes, you could wait until the market is so saturated with cheap goods that you can just buy a full set for cheap. But, guess what? That's just letting other people play the game for you.
Here's my suggestion, OP: Quit reading the forums. Just drop out of the community and play the game. If it's fun, keep playing. If it's not, stop playing. If you stop playing, try again a few months/years down the road and see if it has gotten any better. But don't let other people's progress or ease of play influence you, because that is stupid.
I think I'm going to wait for GW2 to be out for a while, that way after a few expansions I can go pick up the best gear and smash through what would have been challenging, original content with it.
Mental blocks are mental.
yes i do care what other ppl are doing and im not looking to find a reason not to, that is why i dont wanna hear the "think about yourself instead" argument, because its so obvious and simple that anyone know it, its just completely trivial. and this thread is not really me making a statement about the game mechanic being bad or anything, its merely for me to learn whether or not im right about the difficulty varying as a function of time
The prices on low-med end gear will decrease as the game gets older (it's already amazingly cheap) and it's possible to fairly easily beat the game with this gear. Really though, it's not that the game is easier, it's that the price is lower. You could have just spent a ton of real money when the RMAH came out and instantly "made the game easier".
Keep in mind there are rewards for completing the game before others. It's mostly past by now but the people that cleared the game early on enjoyed some real nice AH sales for items that quite honestly weren't very good. I made a lot of gold on items that are now worth 5-10k. I don't feel like my time was wasted just because someone can now buy gear for under a million and do what I did previously.
If you're looking for a challenge, don't use the AH, it's that simple.
But you also have to consider the fact that when items get devalued to the point where they're selling for 5-10k on the AH, most people will simply start vendoring them. At that point, you're, once again, dealing with high-priced expansion items because no one bothers selling anything but the best "old Diablo 3" items.
The effect of expansions and content updates are hard to predict. Will the expansion raise the level cap? If so, then all current level 60 items pretty much become worthless. If not, then the new item tiers will severely devalue the current item tiers, possibly to the point of removing them from the market.
In other words, no one can predict what it's going to be like beyond the almost certainty that it will be slightly easier.
Personally, I feel that the latter would cheapen the experience. Hell, the experience might completely change between now and then and you might never get a chance to play Diablo 3, as it is now, ever again.
If you just want another boring, easy game to play, go ahead and wait. You'll probably forget the game exists and never play it again. Honestly, it sounds like maybe you should just finish the game on Hell and be done with it. Either way, you're going to get a cheapened, easy experience.
-Prices in general are trending downward as more supply (items) are in the market
-Prices for items in popular builds are trending upward as demand (ie. from krip's videos) out-paces the increasing supply
Compound that with the fact many tornado/ww barbs keep several weapon swaps (which means demand is going to be astronomically high, as every barb will want 4-6 different weapons with ideal stats) and you have today's 30mil gold 600 dps 1h crit/LoH weapons.
Eventually, demand will be met there too and prices will drop, but I wouldn't bank on that happening very soon with ww/tornado being increasingly popular, even weeks after it's big video adverts. The good news is you can get big crit dmg and primary stat weapons for comparatively cheap. The bad news is without those snazzy crit/LoH weapons you'll be loath to use a build that is lacking sustain skills like furious charge - dreadnaught or revenge.
but i am uninspired to grind for better gear, since the product of grinding is going to devalue with time. i dislike the experience of grinding if it is performed just for the sake of grinding, but i do enjoy grinding when the product of grinding is something that has value. so its not the act of grinding in itself that i seek, but more the feeling of being on the way to a more valuable character, which is triggered by grinding. but if i grind 15 hrs the next days to increase the worth of my items and then take a break for a month before i return to play, then my grinding was basically worthless because i can get better gear from the ah by just staring out the window instead. and since the grinding was worthless, this doesnt trigger the "im on my way to a more valuable character"-feeling, meaning that the grinding is just for the sake of grinding.
Huh?