It's nice to see they're addressing this but I'm hesitant to say it will be better than just running the superior non-set pieces like Cindercoat, Magefists, Andariel's Visage, Depth Diggers, Aughild's, etc. You are really giving up a ton of good stats to use some pretty bad pieces of gear (I mean dear god look at the shoulders..) just for the set bonus.. and that set bonus, at least on the surface, still does not look amazing. Realistically how often are you actually going to hit something enough to stack up to 3000% damage before it just dies anyway? I can see this being good for a grift build where you manage to max stack the dot on mobs with four trillion HP then go afk for a few hours until they die but for normal t6 rift farming and such I think it'll be preferable to just wear non-set pieces and one shot the mobs with magic missile.
This. And I think it's not 3000% weapon damage that's needed to get the DOT ticking forever - it's more like 9000% (since damage dealt is done to a monster over 3 seconds and we need to achieve 3000% per second), which is only possible against super-fat mobs in Grifts.
It's nice to see they're addressing this but I'm hesitant to say it will be better than just running the superior non-set pieces like Cindercoat, Magefists, Andariel's Visage, Depth Diggers, Aughild's, etc. You are really giving up a ton of good stats to use some pretty bad pieces of gear (I mean dear god look at the shoulders..) just for the set bonus.. and that set bonus, at least on the surface, still does not look amazing. Realistically how often are you actually going to hit something enough to stack up to 3000% damage before it just dies anyway? I can see this being good for a grift build where you manage to max stack the dot on mobs with four trillion HP then go afk for a few hours until they die but for normal t6 rift farming and such I think it'll be preferable to just wear non-set pieces and one shot the mobs with magic missile.
I agree with you, but the same holds true for almost any class. In endgame parties (i.e. where everything dies as soon as it enters the screen), EQ Barbs are mostly useful because of their speed buffs, not because they deal an extraordinary amount of damage because by the time their secondleap hits the ground, everything is already dead. Same goes for my class (DH), that performs better with Cluster spam instead of Marauder Set when fights don't last longer than 5 sec at max (and you have someone else in party for clearing white monsters). I can't even use the stronger Cluster Bombs simply because things die before the grenades have even touched them, so I use the faster-traveling Loaded for Bear rune. Wizards are in a good place because they don't need ramp-up time (Vyr Wizards even have a somewhat unique burst output) forT6 rifts, so the new Firebird's will probably only shine in slow parties and greater rifts.That's not a bad thing however, as this holds true for all classes except Crusaders, who deal a constant amount of damage. With the new legendary gems, ramp-up mechanisms will even increase andwe will feel cycling through phases of high and low output. That sounds exciting to me. You just have to switch your gear from time to time depending on what you're going to do, but that has been commonplace for some classes all along. Even though I don't play a Wizard myself, I'm looking forward to see how the new Firebird's is going to work and what people are going to do with it.
It's nice to see they're addressing this but I'm hesitant to say it will be better than just running the superior non-set pieces like Cindercoat, Magefists, Andariel's Visage, Depth Diggers, Aughild's, etc. You are really giving up a ton of good stats to use some pretty bad pieces of gear (I mean dear god look at the shoulders..) just for the set bonus.. and that set bonus, at least on the surface, still does not look amazing. Realistically how often are you actually going to hit something enough to stack up to 3000% damage before it just dies anyway? I can see this being good for a grift build where you manage to max stack the dot on mobs with four trillion HP then go afk for a few hours until they die but for normal t6 rift farming and such I think it'll be preferable to just wear non-set pieces and one shot the mobs with magic missile.
How much dps do you have on your wiz? I admittedly don't have godly gear, but even when I go full fire/MM damage, I barely reach 20M with MM (and that's when all 3 missiles hit the target). Not quite enough to one-shot those 150M hp mobs, even with the conflagrate dot.
Regarding the ramp-up time, I think we can find ways to keep it at reasonable levels. For instance, with a woh, each cast will do 3840% weapon damage, which means that in 2 casts + MM spam in between, you should be able to reach the 9000%.
I also like the fact that it opens the way for hit-and-run tactics, which will be particularly well-suited to GRifts, since we don't need to stand around waiting for loot. I just hope we get a nice icon above the mobs which have reached the 9000% limit, so we know we can move on to the next pack.
How much dps do you have on your wiz? I admittedly don't have godly gear, but even when I go full fire/MM damage, I barely reach 20M with MM (and that's when all 3 missiles hit the target). Not quite enough to one-shot those 150M hp mobs, even with the conflagrate dot.
I think "one-shot" was a figure of speech. Other than that, I agree with him: currently on PTR my MM/Conflag crits elites for 20M+ each - and that's with a rather crappy DD. Because of this, on PTR I can pretty much face-roll through T6 rifts with MM only (1.4M buffed DPS, +111% fire, +43% elite damage, +104% MM). There's really no reason to use Firebird's there since things die very fast.
This set seems to be good for GRifts though for reasons that you've already mentioned.
It's still a cop-out, though. A really solid idea I saw somewhere was "molten impact" no longer has a cooldown. That's a dramatic build changer. As it is...we probably will change Force Weapon to Ignite. Maybe. It's not really a build changer. It just increases the power of Wand of Woh, already very rare.
The way I understand the Firebird set effect is that everytime you deal Fire Damage you apply a debuff that deals 100% weapon damage over 3 seconds which can be stacked up to 3000% weapon damage over 3 seconds (30 stacks). Once it reaches 30 stacks, the debuff becomes "deal 3000% weapon damage per second untill the target dies".
Whatever way we understand it, it's probably going to change before it hits live servers, so let's not get too deep into theorycrafting with it... yet.
Basically, we can say that Firebird will provide a 100% damage bonus over 3s. Now we have to determine if swapping gear to reach the 6p bonus is worth it or not.
The way I understand the Firebird set effect is that everytime you deal Fire Damage you apply a debuff that deals 100% weapon damage over 3 seconds which can be stacked up to 3000% weapon damage over 3 seconds (30 stacks). Once it reaches 30 stacks, the debuff becomes "deal 3000% weapon damage per second untill the target dies".
Whatever way we understand it, it's probably going to change before it hits live servers, so let's not get too deep into theorycrafting with it... yet.
Not exactly :
"Fire damage will now cause enemies to start burning for the same amount of damage over 3 seconds", not 100% weapon damage (which is just bad).
Basically, we can say that Firebird will provide a 100% damage bonus over 3s. Now we have to determine if swapping gear to reach the 6p bonus is worth it or not. (and why not theorycrafting ? it's fun after all :p)
Considering you lose about 100% Magic Missile damage by dropping Depth Diggers alone, nevermind a potential 60% fire damage from Cindercoat, Magefist, and Andariel's Visage.. that doesn't bode well for Firebird. It's worth considering though that Conflag should also be building towards the 3000%/sec, so calculating how quickly you'll get there isn't entirely straightforward. I think it's fair to say that for mobs with less than X amount of HP non-set items will be strictly better, and Firebird will be superior for mobs with over X HP. The question is the value of X, and where you encounter mobs with that amount of HP. Barring some serious changes, it's likely it'll only be useful in high level greater rifts.
With that in mind, how the later level greater rifts are tuned will likely have a large impact on whether this set is worth using. In the current iteration of mobs with four trillion HP Firebird may be our only way to combat those numbers. If they change how difficulty is scaled (and I hope they do) that may no longer be the case. I believe there is some value in theorycrafting but right now there's so many unknown variables that it may be premature to pursue hard data.
Greater rifts also introduce an intangible element of practicality into the equation, as has been mentioned by others. Even if non-set items do outdamage Firebird on paper, if greater rifts remain tuned in such a way that kiting and avoiding being hit entirely is our only option then the passive damage of the DOT may be superior in practice. I can imagine a build that forgoes Magic Missile entirely for kiting around Hydras, thus opening up the use of the Firebird orb and another non-set armor piece. Who knows where 2.1 will take us?
Even if non-set items do outdamage Firebird on paper
This shouldn't be the case, unless you 1-2-shot stuff with MM. With my current gear, going for Mirrorball + DD + RoRG + 5 set pieces means I'll lose 58% fire damage and 15% elite damage or ~35% total fire damage vs elites, but 6p bonus will essentially double all that's left.
There's also another route: hydra + fire tornadoes + mirror images. This way you can keep 2 non-set fire items + RoRG + 5 set items, one of which is a source with +fire, hence you'll only lose 15% elite damage from Aughild's set, which translates to only ~11% of total damage vs elites lost if you use a SoJ (which is a nobrainer IMO). Double what's left and you'll see that 6p is a huge buff for this setup.
Now, since you won't have to use Aughild's bracers, you can use Strongarm bracers instead and buff yourself some more. Also, for hydra setup you can take T&T instead of some non-set fire legendary and buff your DPS even more.
We need to lose tal rasha pieces, cindercoats, magefists and or depth diggers to make this work. The firebirds sources can roll really good, but mirrorball is sooooo cute
I will stick to a normal fire build and poop on firebird set. Maybe use the set when bored
New bonus looks a bit underwhelming. With 1.25M DPS, 90% fire damage, 43% elite damage it only ticks for ~44M when fully stacked (tested on T6 Ghom). Not sure why, but I was expecting more from it as a compensation for all the nerfs we've got.
New bonus looks a bit underwhelming. With 1.25M DPS, 90% fire damage, 43% elite damage it only ticks for ~44M when fully stacked (tested on T6 Ghom). Not sure why, but I was expecting more from it as a compensation for all the nerfs we've got.
44m/sec until they die seems pretty good. It might not be as high as you could get before with conflag, but now you can drop some survivability for nova or something and just stack then run past them.
New bonus looks a bit underwhelming. With 1.25M DPS, 90% fire damage, 43% elite damage it only ticks for ~44M when fully stacked (tested on T6 Ghom). Not sure why, but I was expecting more from it as a compensation for all the nerfs we've got.
How long did it take to reach max stacks? Is there any kind of an indicator to let you know when you've reached it?
There's no indicator, so I can't really say how long did it take. I think he was at full stacks by the time he's reached the entrance to the room.
Edit: also, it appears that hydras don't stack the Firebird's DOT.
GUYS, I've been told that HYDRA DO NOT apply the stacks, is this true? And if so, does that mean RIP to hydras or can gale force apply it fast enough? I guess not ... mby its a bug, idk. But hydra doesnt technically count as your damage. Hmm..
So now, Woh is the best build?
I have tested with Ghom in T6. I dealt 60% of its health with double hydra, then I removed the hydras, and checked the damage done to Ghom. Nothing, only my follower's damage. So, bug aside, Hydra doesn't trigger firebird at the moment. I think it's not intended, but if it is, Hydra build will be stuck with tasker/yan/cindercoat etc, no firebird. G fucking G.
New bonus looks a bit underwhelming. With 1.25M DPS, 90% fire damage, 43% elite damage it only ticks for ~44M when fully stacked (tested on T6 Ghom). Not sure why, but I was expecting more from it as a compensation for all the nerfs we've got.
How long did it take to reach max stacks? Is there any kind of an indicator to let you know when you've reached it?
It takes like 2 casts of MM with mirrorball to reach max stacks. I was getting it stacked to max on everything I hit in under 2 seconds. After attacking twice, I was able to stop attacking and the dot wouldn't go away.
New bonus looks a bit underwhelming. With 1.25M DPS, 90% fire damage, 43% elite damage it only ticks for ~44M when fully stacked (tested on T6 Ghom). Not sure why, but I was expecting more from it as a compensation for all the nerfs we've got.
How long did it take to reach max stacks? Is there any kind of an indicator to let you know when you've reached it?
It takes like 2 casts of MM with mirrorball to reach max stacks. I was getting it stacked to max on everything I hit in under 2 seconds. After attacking twice, I was able to stop attacking and the dot wouldn't go away.
It wouldn't go away, because both Conflag's and Firebird's DOTs are refreshed by ANY fire damage, so basically you can throw 1 MM without Mirrorball - and both DOTs will never expire, since they refresh each other, while Firebird's one gets progressively stronger.
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Regarding the ramp-up time, I think we can find ways to keep it at reasonable levels. For instance, with a woh, each cast will do 3840% weapon damage, which means that in 2 casts + MM spam in between, you should be able to reach the 9000%.
I also like the fact that it opens the way for hit-and-run tactics, which will be particularly well-suited to GRifts, since we don't need to stand around waiting for loot. I just hope we get a nice icon above the mobs which have reached the 9000% limit, so we know we can move on to the next pack.
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This set seems to be good for GRifts though for reasons that you've already mentioned.
It's still a cop-out, though. A really solid idea I saw somewhere was "molten impact" no longer has a cooldown. That's a dramatic build changer. As it is...we probably will change Force Weapon to Ignite. Maybe. It's not really a build changer. It just increases the power of Wand of Woh, already very rare.
Whatever way we understand it, it's probably going to change before it hits live servers, so let's not get too deep into theorycrafting with it... yet.
With that in mind, how the later level greater rifts are tuned will likely have a large impact on whether this set is worth using. In the current iteration of mobs with four trillion HP Firebird may be our only way to combat those numbers. If they change how difficulty is scaled (and I hope they do) that may no longer be the case. I believe there is some value in theorycrafting but right now there's so many unknown variables that it may be premature to pursue hard data.
Greater rifts also introduce an intangible element of practicality into the equation, as has been mentioned by others. Even if non-set items do outdamage Firebird on paper, if greater rifts remain tuned in such a way that kiting and avoiding being hit entirely is our only option then the passive damage of the DOT may be superior in practice. I can imagine a build that forgoes Magic Missile entirely for kiting around Hydras, thus opening up the use of the Firebird orb and another non-set armor piece. Who knows where 2.1 will take us?
There's also another route: hydra + fire tornadoes + mirror images. This way you can keep 2 non-set fire items + RoRG + 5 set items, one of which is a source with +fire, hence you'll only lose 15% elite damage from Aughild's set, which translates to only ~11% of total damage vs elites lost if you use a SoJ (which is a nobrainer IMO). Double what's left and you'll see that 6p is a huge buff for this setup.
Now, since you won't have to use Aughild's bracers, you can use Strongarm bracers instead and buff yourself some more. Also, for hydra setup you can take T&T instead of some non-set fire legendary and buff your DPS even more.
I will stick to a normal fire build and poop on firebird set. Maybe use the set when bored
Edit: also, it appears that hydras don't stack the Firebird's DOT.
personally i think it is a positive move for wiz change to move away from just doing boring MM all the way.