I don't think 20M is gonna cut it. You can make a CM out of that much for gear but it won't be as effective as running archon on a lower MP. I think there's a 5M archon gearing guide around here somewhere if you do a search, but I think that equipment jumped in price after the guide was posted.
No. Life steal gets nerfed to 20% on Inferno, which means it will give you 0.3% life back. Even if your "real DPS" is 1000000, this means you get 3000 life per second. LoH, on the other hand, will give you about 15-20k life per second back.
Use the CMWW calculator to put in your numbers and see how much life per second you get from LoH, and you'll see that it's impossible to get to the same rate with LS due to the Inferno nerf.
Here's a little table I made for some discussion in the official forums. What it shows is how much LoH you get per 1% Life Steal per 100k dps. It's assuming you do 7x your char sheet dps in effective dps and the effective LoH returns are 6, 8, 9, 10 for the respective APS breakpoints. In short, it's mainly an approximation but should give reasonable answers. It overapproximates the usefulness of LS if you have a lower dps multiplier, so maybe I should have used something like 6x. It's also based on single target dps, but more mobs should favor LS because you do more damage with DS and EB due to extra CM procs from more mobs.
If you want to have 900 LoH with just BM you'd need something like 343k dps with 2.5 APS. So basically BM alone isn't enough to make up for 900 LoH for most people. At 175k it's enough to make up for 450 LoH though, and some people run with around 400 LoH.
So BM alone isn't very optimal, but it's possible to some degree at high DPS.
To compare with Bagstone's example, if you do 1 mil effective dps at 2.5 APS, BM is worth about 3000 life per second which is equivalent to about 375 LoH.
Don't you need to take a few more things into account? Like, crit chance for example? The example I actually had in mind was this calc I posted earlier somewhere on the forums: http://d3cmww.com/cmww?configid=55131
88k sheet DPS, 1.5m real DPS (2 enemies for quite a long fight - simulating ubers here). Results in ~17k LPS, 12k of these just from LoH. Blood Magic would give about 4500-5000 LPS.
Crit is accounted for in the char sheet dps, and I just used an approximation for effective dps. I can't see the results from that site because I use IE. How much LoH are you comparing to the BM 900? 4500 LPS from 1.5 mil dps is what I expect from BM.
Thanks. That agrees fairly well with the numbers I was posting above. The effective loh gains per target for those results is around 7.5 which is lower than the value of 9 I use above, which should favor the LS more. I'd attribute the difference to having the extra mob. The 1.5% LS was about 28% of the life gain, and 28% of 800 is 218 so for that sim BM was worth about 218 LoH.
If you rerun the results but use 1018 LoH I imagine you should get about the same life return. The table above predicts it would be 205 LoH so the agreement is pretty good, though mine assumes 1 target and your sim was with 2 targets.
Where do I upgrade from here? I've been shelling out millions for minuscule upgrades and I'm just wondering if I'm missing something obvious. A 3.5% CC mempo doesn't do as much for me as the extra Int. Trifecta rings with dmg are beyond my price range atm.
Where do I upgrade from here? I've been shelling out millions for minuscule upgrades and I'm just wondering if I'm missing something obvious. A 3.5% CC mempo doesn't do as much for me as the extra Int. Trifecta rings with dmg are beyond my price range atm.
IMO you need to pick up some resists and/or armor on pieces. CMWW wizards should always use SA when solo farming and should only use EA when in groups or high MP ubers if your dps contribution doesn't matter and you need it for survival. It's much more benefitial to have slightly lower dps but higher resists so you can run SA then go class cannon and try to make up for lack of survivability with EA. SA is just that good and adds a ton to your effective dps. You can even swap to shell over shards if needed but run SA.
If you want to see how much dps you're missing out on by not using SA try running a quick simulation on the website Bagstone posted above. There's also a thread floating around with a link to it. It's about as accurate as we have at the moment and should give a reasonable approximation to how much dps SA gives.
Also, CC adds to your char sheet dps but also makes the build work better so it adds to your effective dps multiplier. For example, I went from 50.5 to 55 CC recently, which increases my effective multiplier by about 5-6%, so I didn't mind losing a couple thousand dps since the extra crit means I do more effective dps despite having a lower char sheet dps.
As far as gear changes, personally I prefer running SC+non-APoC chanto OH. You get more dps out of it, it's far cheaper, and you can gain some crit since you're using a non-crit mempo. You can make up for some of the loss of life% by getting a high vit OH. The downside is the loss of resist, which you are lacking in most places. You also are between breakpoints so you can lose the IAS from the mempo without dropping you below the 2.73 breakpoint. The only reason to run higher is if you need better freezing strength, particularly against Ubers but should only really apply if you have 150-200+ ms latency. At 100 ms latency 2.73 should be sufficient with around 50% CC.
Picking up extra resists is not going to be cheap, sadly. You'll either have to trade dps for extra resists (such as chest, gloves, or rings) or drop hp a bit (like on pants, belt, shoulders).
If you do opt to switch back to a SC you can drop BM for electrify for better aoe or use teleport for extra survival and maneuverability. If you don't switch to SC you can drop your Lacuni for rare or crafted bracers with high Int, vit, CC, AR and armor. I'm really not a fan of lacuni for CMWW because you can get so much more DPS and/or EHP from crafting.
Thanks for the feedback. I do use storm armor instead of energy armor for farming and I switch into IAS pants for ubers which is why I'm sitting in between break points. I don't usually have survival issues, but I have been looking into crafting bracers because I think the Int and defense will help farm at 2.73 better. I am pretty strongly against switching to storm crow because you only get the one random stat and I feel like I'd be losing more EHP from the helm than I could pick up on the source. How do you feel about having no move speed? That's really what I've been looking at lately is swapping the boots for Ice Climbers and losing the IAS on the bracers for some stacked crafted ones.
I actually just switched to a 0% MS setup with wormhole and I don't really notice any difference in mobility over 12% MS. If you're not using teleport then it's probably much more noticable and might not be a good idea, but you can try it.
I'm glad you use SA for farming. It seems like 90% of the profiles I see for people asking for suggestions use pinpoint barrier for CMWW and it makes me cringe. EA over SA is like 1 MP level worth of mitigation.
For SC, it has as many random rolls as Mempo, technically. It just doesn't have the wonderfull high resist, life%, and socket standard, so I can understand if you want to keep the mempo. Don't neglect the bonus damage vs elites though, but it mostly boils down to EHP vs DPS, though the extra LoH from the SC makes up a bit for the lower EHP. Think of it this way: With SC you could get around 1000 LoH. Without you have more like 600-700, so you raise your life returns by a good 30-50%. Losing the AR will only make you take at most 10% more damage, so it's a net win in survivability. Still, it's your call, especially since it messes up IAS a bit.
Ain't been playin' much lately, but when I do I'm always running BM now.
I ditched the whole Dagger/Triumvirate thing I was doing and went back to Chantodo's @ 2.74+. I finally managed to pull well past the 300k mark I wanted while maintaining 2.74+ IAS, currently sitting at sheet DPS of 351k (buffed) which shoots all the way up to 411k with Deep Freeze. I tried Glass Cannon too for a while but I think the damage increase from it is so minimal compared to the survivability you lose, so I switched back to Evocation.
As far as defensives go, could use more armor but I think I'm doing just fine. Keeping all res @ ~730, and coupled with the above mentioned damage/speed setup; as well as 1014 LoH, I can sometimes do silly things like facetank desecrators + arcane beams.
Definitely recommend BM for anyone with similar gear setups.
Yeah you need IAS gloves like you said. Problem for you is you're starting to get up there where upgrades cost a lot and also have a domino effect (you upgrade something but then you need to change another piece just to make the first upgrade work). The cheapest direct upgrade may be as you mentioned: Lacunis with high crit and armor (since you got good all res but less than 4k armor). You're also missing armor on shoulders.
Another cheap huge DPS boost can come in the forum of an IAS Unity (you will gain damage, 200+ LoH but lose a tiny amount of Vit). In a perfect world, I would tell you to switch your Storm Crow too for a high crit Mempo (cause you have a very nice Chantodo set) but then again that would cost... a looot. You also may need another LoH source for this upgrade too.
***Edit***: Never mind on the Storm Crow you need it. Just noticed your offhand doesn't have APoC.
No idea about the terrorists in Keep Depths... I've believe I've survived them before but probably only with group buffs. They generally still one-shot me both in CM and Archon. I never tried going EHP heavy though, like some people try running Archon with 200-300k DPS, 100k+ life, high res and armor. For me to try something like that would require a few billion gold and would STILL result in massive DPS loss, so I'm not too motivated for it. I'd rather just wait for 1.0.8 and play Archon in groups so I don't need that much EHP, and still keep sheet DPS of 450k+ unbuffed / 600k+ buffed.
This is all Archon though, not CM. For CM you should never really go EHP heavy like that. I have ~45k life, ~1k LoH, ~730 res, ~4.4k armor and it allows me to run around MP10 freely farming in full DPS SNS spec without any problems at all. I rarely get killed by terrorists if I'm paying attention and perma-freeze them or run away correctly.
I think the maniacs do around 450k damage on MP10 so you want 450-500k EHP to be able to survive. Blur works against them though, so you can use that for an extra 20% to your EHP.
To reach 2.73 APS with a 1.65 APS OS chanto, you need 66% IAS on gear. I see 62% on the d3up profile so you need another IAS piece. Crafting will get you there eventually or you can pick up a cheap pair on the AH, though you'll lose dps by doing that.
Alternatively you can use a IAS Chanto. With a 1.78 or 1.79 Chanto you can reach 2.73 APS with just 6 IAS pieces, so you can drop IAS from 2 items, which gives you options for higher DPS and/or EHP. That means you could keep your gloves and you could swap from Lacuni to crafted bracers. This is generally the easier way to build a set for high mitigation while still allowing you to reach high DPS.
I would love some suggestions on where to go next. I am still very very new at this and am running on some loaner gear, although some of it is my own now. I know that I need to add CC but other than that where should I turn? Gold is limited, I have only about 55 million. I have found that the actual cost of pieces on the AH are far more expensive than what has been represented on the forums I read.
You really need more crit. If I'd adding it up right you only have 28% unbuffed, 31% with scoundrel. That's not nearly enough to sustain against single target which really hurts your survivability. Drop CD on gloves for 8.5%+, swap from AR to CC for the SC, I'd say 4-4.5% for a few million. That should get you to a decent place in terms of starting crit value. More crit will be better but won't be as vital since you should have good single target sustainability.
From there you can consider swapping from zuni+lacuni to Tal+rare bracers. Your dps will go up and you'll gain another 4-6%, but you might lose some mitigation and the tal chest is more expensive for less stats than the zuni. This partly depends on how lucky you are with crafted bracers since that's what you'd use ideally (something like 220 int, 4.5% CC, 70 AR, 60+vit to start with). For Tal chest I'd grab something with 70 AR then whatever other stats that you can afford, preferably as high int/vit that doesn't cost too much (should really only be a few million for just AR). I wouldn't worry about paying extra for something with under 600 armor in case you try pricing AR+Armor tal's.
You can also drop 7% IAS from gear and still maintain your breakpoint, which should make upgrading your gloves a lot easier.
I really have not the good stuff for this (http://eu.battle.net...652/hero/170280), but if I found how to farm more effectively, maybe I should buy a stuff for this.
Oh, and just a question, maybe less DPS than mine with a better APS will be a best choice ?
You need to switch half your gear - you don't have any APoC or LoH right now, and your IAS/APS and crit chance are way too low. May also want to add a bit more survivability, but that's secondary for now. Lots of things to swap if you wanna switch to CMWW, and if I dare to ask... why do you wanna switch? By getting all the necessary stuff that makes this build work you'll have a hard time getting past the 100k sheet DPS mark, since it doesn't look like you have an infinite budget. Also, CMWW for farming requires you to hit a couple of keys many times per second, it's extremely tiring. Don't expect to swap 1-2 pieces of gear and be able to farm MP8+ ;-)
I don't know what build to go with (CM/WW in general, but regarding IAS / crit / EHP, i Have no idea what I'm doing).
I have 20M gold and want to do higher MPs. MP7+ if possbible.
I'm Archon right now which is great for lower MPs, but for keys and Ubers I'll need CMWW or SNS or whatever.
Here's the question: do I spend the 20M now on a set or farm MP0 as Archon until I have more gold?
If I'm not gonna be able to get a MP7ish set with 20M I'll just wait.
Thanks in advance.
Use the CMWW calculator to put in your numbers and see how much life per second you get from LoH, and you'll see that it's impossible to get to the same rate with LS due to the Inferno nerf.
Here's a little table I made for some discussion in the official forums. What it shows is how much LoH you get per 1% Life Steal per 100k dps. It's assuming you do 7x your char sheet dps in effective dps and the effective LoH returns are 6, 8, 9, 10 for the respective APS breakpoints. In short, it's mainly an approximation but should give reasonable answers. It overapproximates the usefulness of LS if you have a lower dps multiplier, so maybe I should have used something like 6x. It's also based on single target dps, but more mobs should favor LS because you do more damage with DS and EB due to extra CM procs from more mobs.
If you want to have 900 LoH with just BM you'd need something like 343k dps with 2.5 APS. So basically BM alone isn't enough to make up for 900 LoH for most people. At 175k it's enough to make up for 450 LoH though, and some people run with around 400 LoH.
So BM alone isn't very optimal, but it's possible to some degree at high DPS.
To compare with Bagstone's example, if you do 1 mil effective dps at 2.5 APS, BM is worth about 3000 life per second which is equivalent to about 375 LoH.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
88k sheet DPS, 1.5m real DPS (2 enemies for quite a long fight - simulating ubers here). Results in ~17k LPS, 12k of these just from LoH. Blood Magic would give about 4500-5000 LPS.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
If you rerun the results but use 1018 LoH I imagine you should get about the same life return. The table above predicts it would be 205 LoH so the agreement is pretty good, though mine assumes 1 target and your sim was with 2 targets.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Where do I upgrade from here? I've been shelling out millions for minuscule upgrades and I'm just wondering if I'm missing something obvious. A 3.5% CC mempo doesn't do as much for me as the extra Int. Trifecta rings with dmg are beyond my price range atm.
IMO you need to pick up some resists and/or armor on pieces. CMWW wizards should always use SA when solo farming and should only use EA when in groups or high MP ubers if your dps contribution doesn't matter and you need it for survival. It's much more benefitial to have slightly lower dps but higher resists so you can run SA then go class cannon and try to make up for lack of survivability with EA. SA is just that good and adds a ton to your effective dps. You can even swap to shell over shards if needed but run SA.
If you want to see how much dps you're missing out on by not using SA try running a quick simulation on the website Bagstone posted above. There's also a thread floating around with a link to it. It's about as accurate as we have at the moment and should give a reasonable approximation to how much dps SA gives.
Also, CC adds to your char sheet dps but also makes the build work better so it adds to your effective dps multiplier. For example, I went from 50.5 to 55 CC recently, which increases my effective multiplier by about 5-6%, so I didn't mind losing a couple thousand dps since the extra crit means I do more effective dps despite having a lower char sheet dps.
As far as gear changes, personally I prefer running SC+non-APoC chanto OH. You get more dps out of it, it's far cheaper, and you can gain some crit since you're using a non-crit mempo. You can make up for some of the loss of life% by getting a high vit OH. The downside is the loss of resist, which you are lacking in most places. You also are between breakpoints so you can lose the IAS from the mempo without dropping you below the 2.73 breakpoint. The only reason to run higher is if you need better freezing strength, particularly against Ubers but should only really apply if you have 150-200+ ms latency. At 100 ms latency 2.73 should be sufficient with around 50% CC.
Picking up extra resists is not going to be cheap, sadly. You'll either have to trade dps for extra resists (such as chest, gloves, or rings) or drop hp a bit (like on pants, belt, shoulders).
If you do opt to switch back to a SC you can drop BM for electrify for better aoe or use teleport for extra survival and maneuverability. If you don't switch to SC you can drop your Lacuni for rare or crafted bracers with high Int, vit, CC, AR and armor. I'm really not a fan of lacuni for CMWW because you can get so much more DPS and/or EHP from crafting.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
I'm glad you use SA for farming. It seems like 90% of the profiles I see for people asking for suggestions use pinpoint barrier for CMWW and it makes me cringe. EA over SA is like 1 MP level worth of mitigation.
For SC, it has as many random rolls as Mempo, technically. It just doesn't have the wonderfull high resist, life%, and socket standard, so I can understand if you want to keep the mempo. Don't neglect the bonus damage vs elites though, but it mostly boils down to EHP vs DPS, though the extra LoH from the SC makes up a bit for the lower EHP. Think of it this way: With SC you could get around 1000 LoH. Without you have more like 600-700, so you raise your life returns by a good 30-50%. Losing the AR will only make you take at most 10% more damage, so it's a net win in survivability. Still, it's your call, especially since it messes up IAS a bit.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
I run 434 loh + BM and it nets me about 7k life/sec.
I ditched the whole Dagger/Triumvirate thing I was doing and went back to Chantodo's @ 2.74+. I finally managed to pull well past the 300k mark I wanted while maintaining 2.74+ IAS, currently sitting at sheet DPS of 351k (buffed) which shoots all the way up to 411k with Deep Freeze. I tried Glass Cannon too for a while but I think the damage increase from it is so minimal compared to the survivability you lose, so I switched back to Evocation.
As far as defensives go, could use more armor but I think I'm doing just fine. Keeping all res @ ~730, and coupled with the above mentioned damage/speed setup; as well as 1014 LoH, I can sometimes do silly things like facetank desecrators + arcane beams.
Definitely recommend BM for anyone with similar gear setups.
Another cheap huge DPS boost can come in the forum of an IAS Unity (you will gain damage, 200+ LoH but lose a tiny amount of Vit). In a perfect world, I would tell you to switch your Storm Crow too for a high crit Mempo (cause you have a very nice Chantodo set) but then again that would cost... a looot. You also may need another LoH source for this upgrade too.
***Edit***: Never mind on the Storm Crow you need it. Just noticed your offhand doesn't have APoC.
No idea about the terrorists in Keep Depths... I've believe I've survived them before but probably only with group buffs. They generally still one-shot me both in CM and Archon. I never tried going EHP heavy though, like some people try running Archon with 200-300k DPS, 100k+ life, high res and armor. For me to try something like that would require a few billion gold and would STILL result in massive DPS loss, so I'm not too motivated for it. I'd rather just wait for 1.0.8 and play Archon in groups so I don't need that much EHP, and still keep sheet DPS of 450k+ unbuffed / 600k+ buffed.
This is all Archon though, not CM. For CM you should never really go EHP heavy like that. I have ~45k life, ~1k LoH, ~730 res, ~4.4k armor and it allows me to run around MP10 freely farming in full DPS SNS spec without any problems at all. I rarely get killed by terrorists if I'm paying attention and perma-freeze them or run away correctly.
To reach 2.73 APS with a 1.65 APS OS chanto, you need 66% IAS on gear. I see 62% on the d3up profile so you need another IAS piece. Crafting will get you there eventually or you can pick up a cheap pair on the AH, though you'll lose dps by doing that.
Alternatively you can use a IAS Chanto. With a 1.78 or 1.79 Chanto you can reach 2.73 APS with just 6 IAS pieces, so you can drop IAS from 2 items, which gives you options for higher DPS and/or EHP. That means you could keep your gloves and you could swap from Lacuni to crafted bracers. This is generally the easier way to build a set for high mitigation while still allowing you to reach high DPS.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
http://us.battle.net...6/hero/32309069
Thanks for the help!
From there you can consider swapping from zuni+lacuni to Tal+rare bracers. Your dps will go up and you'll gain another 4-6%, but you might lose some mitigation and the tal chest is more expensive for less stats than the zuni. This partly depends on how lucky you are with crafted bracers since that's what you'd use ideally (something like 220 int, 4.5% CC, 70 AR, 60+vit to start with). For Tal chest I'd grab something with 70 AR then whatever other stats that you can afford, preferably as high int/vit that doesn't cost too much (should really only be a few million for just AR). I wouldn't worry about paying extra for something with under 600 armor in case you try pricing AR+Armor tal's.
You can also drop 7% IAS from gear and still maintain your breakpoint, which should make upgrading your gloves a lot easier.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
You need to switch half your gear - you don't have any APoC or LoH right now, and your IAS/APS and crit chance are way too low. May also want to add a bit more survivability, but that's secondary for now. Lots of things to swap if you wanna switch to CMWW, and if I dare to ask... why do you wanna switch? By getting all the necessary stuff that makes this build work you'll have a hard time getting past the 100k sheet DPS mark, since it doesn't look like you have an infinite budget. Also, CMWW for farming requires you to hit a couple of keys many times per second, it's extremely tiring. Don't expect to swap 1-2 pieces of gear and be able to farm MP8+ ;-)