Want to make Meteor Wizard

  • #21
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from witchdoctorcrulx

    Quote from RasAlgethi24

    ^I wouldnt' use Shocking Aspect without wicked wind. The reason SA does so much damage in the typical CMWW build is because WW procs so damn quickly. Without it, in a meteor build, SA just isn't worth it.


    It does, and I can back it up. I use this build daily. zCrystallite#1460, come in a game with me sometime :D

    The reason it does work better than WW is because besides the Liquefy crit pools lasting 8 seconds, unlike WW, meteor has an impact damage proc coefficient. All of your "proc skills" combined proc SA potentially better than SNS by far in big groups. The difference is Nadoes are good AP batteries where as you have to be more careful with meteors if it's your spender/generator because they cost more and have a delay.

    Proc coefficients

    Meteor
    Molten Impact .250 impact, .125 pool
    Star Pact .212 impact, .106 pool
    Meteor Shower .100 impact, .050 pool
    Comet .250 impact, .125 pool
    Liquefy .212 impact, .106 pool


    Energy Twister
    Wicked Wind .125 DoT (all of them are .125)

    If you can keep casting meteors without stopping, it's better.


    The number of SA procs per WW cast per mob are on the order of 5-6 depending on APS and CC. For Meteor, it's more like 0.3-0.5 per cast per mob. That's like 10x difference, so unless you're hitting 10 times the number of mobs with a meteor as your WW, it's not as worthwhile as with WW.

    That said, SA is still probably the best dps option for meteor builds. Reactive armor is nice but if you're running FN and high APS, SA likely does more damage. IMO the point of using SA with meteor isn't that it does huge damage like in CMWW builds, but that it does some damage, and some is better than none, assuming you don't need EHP, in which case you'd use a different armor anyway.


    Overall, the SNS build doesn't do more dmg though since tornadoes don't have impact damage, I shoulda specified my point better. You're right, WW does proc SA better, but liquefy/SA/Shards/EB does more overall damage than SNS, granted you can comfortably cast more meteors without running out of AP, my bad I think I was tunnel visioning my reasoning.

    I should probably make a video because it's not easy to explain without the hardcore theorycrafting done on the numbers, but the result is there.
  • #22
    Quote from witchdoctorcrulx

    Try this:

    Meteor - Liquefy
    Diamond Skin - Shards
    Explosive Blast - Chain Reaction
    Storm Armor - Shocking Aspect
    Magic Weapon - Blood Magic
    Frost Nova - Deep Freeze

    Astral Presence
    CM
    Power Hungry

    -28-30 Apoc
    -10 Meteor reduction through SoJ and Offhand
    --Life Steal/9-10 Apoc wand, socket, highest dmg you can get without spending too much
    -600+ AR
    -40k EHP
    - At least one item with Pickup Radius
    -As much CC as possible, or anywhere from 48-54%

    Meteor is your main ability and the point is to keep as many enemies in the pools as possible while continuing to drop meteors. Shards, EB and Shocking Aspect will take care of everything. Between Shards, EB, Meteor impact+pools, you'll have plenty of Life Steal and CM/Apoc/SA procs. Don't be fooled about Power Hungry, it fills the gaps between kills and bosses to ensure 90-100% meteor/EB uptime. A really cool trick is to try as often as possible to bottleneck enemies together, try not to freeze enemies prematurely apart if you're not in danger.

    Here's an example of my gear (get a life steal wand though) http://us.battle.net...0/hero/29659376

    It's pretty complex because of the delay meteor and EB has, and that positioning matters since it's a build that doesn't use teleport or energy armor, but it's highly rewarding, it might take a bit getting used to. I had a ton of fun testing and making this one, and I still haven't changed.


    I'm playing a different variant of this build (mainly different passives, Cold Blooded and Conflagration for more DPS instead of the arcane generation passives) and it works quite well ! Just abuse Frost nova + CM (like every wizard build) and you will be fine !
  • #23
    Quote from witchdoctorcrulx

    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from witchdoctorcrulx

    Quote from RasAlgethi24

    ^I wouldnt' use Shocking Aspect without wicked wind. The reason SA does so much damage in the typical CMWW build is because WW procs so damn quickly. Without it, in a meteor build, SA just isn't worth it.


    It does, and I can back it up. I use this build daily. zCrystallite#1460, come in a game with me sometime :D

    The reason it does work better than WW is because besides the Liquefy crit pools lasting 8 seconds, unlike WW, meteor has an impact damage proc coefficient. All of your "proc skills" combined proc SA potentially better than SNS by far in big groups. The difference is Nadoes are good AP batteries where as you have to be more careful with meteors if it's your spender/generator because they cost more and have a delay.

    Proc coefficients

    Meteor
    Molten Impact .250 impact, .125 pool
    Star Pact .212 impact, .106 pool
    Meteor Shower .100 impact, .050 pool
    Comet .250 impact, .125 pool
    Liquefy .212 impact, .106 pool


    Energy Twister
    Wicked Wind .125 DoT (all of them are .125)

    If you can keep casting meteors without stopping, it's better.


    The number of SA procs per WW cast per mob are on the order of 5-6 depending on APS and CC. For Meteor, it's more like 0.3-0.5 per cast per mob. That's like 10x difference, so unless you're hitting 10 times the number of mobs with a meteor as your WW, it's not as worthwhile as with WW.

    That said, SA is still probably the best dps option for meteor builds. Reactive armor is nice but if you're running FN and high APS, SA likely does more damage. IMO the point of using SA with meteor isn't that it does huge damage like in CMWW builds, but that it does some damage, and some is better than none, assuming you don't need EHP, in which case you'd use a different armor anyway.


    Overall, the SNS build doesn't do more dmg though since tornadoes don't have impact damage, I shoulda specified my point better. You're right, WW does proc SA better, but liquefy/SA/Shards/EB does more overall damage than SNS, granted you can comfortably cast more meteors without running out of AP, my bad I think I was tunnel visioning my reasoning.

    I should probably make a video because it's not easy to explain without the hardcore theorycrafting done on the numbers, but the result is there.


    Do you mean more damage as in farming, against multiple enemies? Because against a single target im pretty sure an SNS will out perform your set up.
  • #24
    Quote from witchdoctorcrulx

    Overall, the SNS build doesn't do more dmg though since tornadoes don't have impact damage, I shoulda specified my point better. You're right, WW does proc SA better, but liquefy/SA/Shards/EB does more overall damage than SNS, granted you can comfortably cast more meteors without running out of AP, my bad I think I was tunnel visioning my reasoning.

    I should probably make a video because it's not easy to explain without the hardcore theorycrafting done on the numbers, but the result is there.


    I have a couple issues with those statements. First, Meteor doesn't do more damage than SNS in general. In sustained fights against single targets, SNS > Meteor, even if you could sustain meteor against single target. For short fights, Meteor can beat out SNS because of the burst damage of meteor.

    Against elites, SNS > meteor if you can hit everything with each WW.

    Where meteor gets ahead of SNS is the aoe potential against trash mobs because meteor has around 2x the radius as WW, roughly speaking. Also, if you can kill trash mobs fairly fast, then the burst damage of meteor can outweigh the damage of SNS because of the windup associated with SNS.

    Otherwise, SNS > meteor in general. The math backs it up if you just look at the damage per WW cast + SA procs vs meteor cast with SA procs. That doesn't include the potential for extra DS and EB procs from WW, which further pushes it ahead of meteor in a lot of situations. The math gets more complicated once you start comparing say 4 WW mobs hit vs 5 hit with meteor, which is where trash mobs come into play.

    IMO most of the reason to use meteor is because it's a cool spell and is fun to play with. If you're trying to make the most versatile, most efficient farming build, then it likely won't quite hold up to SNS, but I will concede that it's still viable with the right gear.
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  • #25
    Quote from Loroese


    Where meteor gets ahead of SNS is the aoe potential against trash mobs because meteor has around 2x the radius as WW, roughly speaking. Also, if you can kill trash mobs fairly fast, then the burst damage of meteor can outweigh the damage of SNS because of the windup associated with SNS.


    I will not argue in the Meteor vs SNS debate since I never played SNS, but right now the game is really only about aoeing trash mobs (there is a reason if people begged for an increased mob density). I just played Meteor again earlier today and Meteor in the Decaying Crypt is devastating :)
  • #26
    Why isn't there a single item that increases damage done by ARCANE skills.... I mean, not even the tal'rasha's terrible TERRIBLE set bonus includes arcane damage.
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