Wow thats awesome. They also changed the cost of almost every skill. And look at the dmg change for Fan of Knives. Oo
Yeah but Fan of Knives has a 10 sec cooldown now.
Hmm didnt catch that at first glance... is it me or did they only change the Hatred Spells? The discipline looks almost the same... they lowered some of the costs a little but thats all.
Well the big complaints were about hatred running out too quickly and not doing enough damage compared to the other classes so they fixed the biggest problems.
Sadly since we have Hatred generators now im going to assume Hatred acts like Fury or Spirit.
If it does then Rapid Fire wont be as powerful as it was before.
Impale got a boost in damage so Impale might replace it for me.
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed with the DH changes.
One of the things I most liked about Diii was that each class has a unique resource system. When they were first all announced they weren't radically different, but enough to provide flavor for each class. Now it really feels like Barb, Monk, and DH are pretty close.
Fury and Spirit were different enough to be ok, but adding a third class that builds a resource with half their skills and spends it with the other half feels kinda lame. I expected a more creative solution to the problem, or more subtle.
I liked that the DH had to pace themselves in combat and balance skill usage between Hatred and Discipline spells. But now it looks like I could ignore Discipline entirely if I wanted to.
I'm glad that they're trying to solve the problems with the DH, but it really feels like they took the easy way out on this one.
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed with the DH changes.
One of the things I most liked about Diii was that each class has a unique resource system. When they were first all announced they weren't radically different, but enough to provide flavor for each class. Now it really feels like Barb, Monk, and DH are pretty close.
Fury and Spirit were different enough to be ok, but adding a third class that builds a resource with half their skills and spends it with the other half feels kinda lame. I expected a more creative solution to the problem, or more subtle.
I liked that the DH had to pace themselves in combat and balance skill usage between Hatred and Discipline spells. But now it looks like I could ignore Discipline entirely if I wanted to.
I'm glad that they're trying to solve the problems with the DH, but it really feels like they took the easy way out on this one.
What made (and still makes) the DH's resource unique was the fact that it was split.
It used to basically be AP/mana, now its just kinda spirit/mana instead.
I haven't fully looked over all the exact skill/rune changes, but I can say I'm extremely glad that the entire resource (hatred) system was reworked. In the previous incarnation, it was generally weaker than Witch Doctor/Wizard systems and not balanced over different weapon speeds like Barbarian and Monk. Most of the Hatred Generator runes don't seem to be updated yet like Entangling Shot golden rune which still reduces the cost instead of generating more. If the runes follow suit like monk/barbarian/wizard resource generating skill runes, where you can rune for additional resource generation, then I think this system will turn out much more balanced and most importantly fun.
What made (and still makes) the DH's resource unique was the fact that it was split.
It used to basically be AP/mana, now its just kinda spirit/mana instead.
I haven't played it myself, so I guess I can't tell whether or not it's fun. It just seems like Barb, Monk, and Demon Hunter all kinda have the same rhythm to combat now. I'd be interested to know what happens to Hatred naturally. Perhaps it still regens naturally but even more slowly. That way you have the Barb that decays, the Monk that stays static, and the DH that regens.
Discipline just doesn't look all that interesting. It seems like you won't worry about it most of the time. Its basic function seems to be preventing utility skill spamming without needing to implement cooldowns (which is different than the other classes, granted).
Whatevs, I just was a bit disappointed to see 3/5 classes using the combo point style of DPS.
I am happy with the skill order changes, though. Impale at level 1 to give the DH a nuke right up front is pretty sweet. And skills like grenades and fan of knives that are much more situational being moved back to later levels seems like a nice fit.
Ok, I haven't really looked at these changes but I need some clarification. So Fan of Knives now has a 10 second cool down. Does this mean that their is one less skill the Demon Hunter has. To me a close range, mid-damage, aoe attack for the Demon Hunter was pretty useless to begin with, but now with the 10 second cool down, it can't even be used anymore?
Ok, I haven't really looked at these changes but I need some clarification. So Fan of Knives now has a 10 second cool down. Does this mean that their is one less skill the Demon Hunter has. To me a close range, mid-damage, aoe attack for the Demon Hunter was pretty useless to begin with, but now with the 10 second cool down, it can't even be used anymore?
How can it still be effective?
Now it's based on weapon damage, so it will do massively more damage than the old puny version.
@Prunetracy: First off, I love your name; that's one of my all time favorite Simpsons moments
But yeah, I agree I was kinda bummed that it's now just another version of the monk/barb, and I also kinda think that discipline management will never really be a problem. But I haven't played the beta yet either (DAMMIT!) so I'll give it a few sessions playing with the DH before I come to my conclusion
It was completely useless before due to it not scaling with weapon damage. It did about 2-3 damage when you first got it. However, now, they increased the damage significantly and scales off of weapon damage AND increased its slow. Now its supposed to be a "crap a bunch of stuff is around me *Fan of Knives and vault away*" type thing. At least, thats how I imagine it. I may put it on my skill set up in its new incarnation.
It was completely useless before due to it not scaling with weapon damage. It did about 2-3 damage when you first got it. However, now, they increased the damage significantly and scales off of weapon damage AND increased its slow. Now its supposed to be a "crap a bunch of stuff is around me *Fan of Knives and vault away*" type thing. At least, thats how I imagine it. I may put it on my skill set up in its new incarnation.
I guess so. I think i'm just still pissed about all these freaking cool-downs still lol. But 10 seconds... come on. Every type of rpg game I have ever played, cool-downs averaged between 1-5 seconds. Diablo 3 is supposed to be a fast paced action game where you absolutely obliterate large mobs around you and fly through them. If they are going to add cool downs they shouldn't at least be longer than 10 seconds. Fan of knives which i thought to be a spammable skill is now going to be incredibly dull for my play-style. I'm just so worried at what else blizzard decides to give cool-downs to, we already have a bunch of freaking 30 second cool-downs. =(
Strafe is solid AOE now.
Only costs 2 Hatred a second with no cooldown and if you Obsidian rune it and have Ballistics passive on you do 270% weapons damage a second.
It was completely useless before due to it not scaling with weapon damage. It did about 2-3 damage when you first got it. However, now, they increased the damage significantly and scales off of weapon damage AND increased its slow. Now its supposed to be a "crap a bunch of stuff is around me *Fan of Knives and vault away*" type thing. At least, thats how I imagine it. I may put it on my skill set up in its new incarnation.
I guess so. I think i'm just still pissed about all these freaking cool-downs still lol. But 10 seconds... come on. Every type of rpg game I have ever played, cool-downs averaged between 1-5 seconds. Diablo 3 is supposed to be a fast paced action game where you absolutely obliterate large mobs around you and fly through them. If they are going to add cool downs they shouldn't at least be longer than 10 seconds. Fan of knives which i thought to be a spammable skill is now going to be incredibly dull for my play-style. I'm just so worried at what else blizzard decides to give cool-downs to, we already have a bunch of freaking 30 second cool-downs. =(
Think of it this way: You'll most likely do more damage now doing 1 FoK every 10 seconds than you would casting the old one for 10 seconds straight
Why is strafe at hatred generators, when it costs 2 hatred per sec? I guess its not the final stuff.
BTW, I reealy dont like these changes as they are now, other than the weapon damage% buffs on skills. All they needed to do, is to boost the hatred regen and buff the damage(did the latter). The good thing was, that even though you more or less had to pick a few discipline skill, and then the hatred skills you like, but ir was more or less free choice. Now, I "have to" pick around 2-3 hatred generators, then 1-3 hatred spenders and then 1-2 discipline skills. I'm not feeling positive about this.
I don't wanna whine, at least they did the rework instead leaving it as it was, and we have to see how it actually works out, but I'm slowly turning away from the DH...
Ok, I haven't really looked at these changes but I need some clarification. So Fan of Knives now has a 10 second cool down. Does this mean that their is one less skill the Demon Hunter has. To me a close range, mid-damage, aoe attack for the Demon Hunter was pretty useless to begin with, but now with the 10 second cool down, it can't even be used anymore?
How can it still be effective?
I'm with you. It either needs a huge damage boost (on top of the one it already got) or that cooldown needs to be reduced drastically.
Fan of Knives is basically Frost Nova now. Short range, player based AOE that snares targets while doing moderate damage.
It's a tool you can use or not use, but it has its place.
I think it's old role was more strange. Why would the Demon Hunter voluntarily place themselves into the middle of a pack of monsters and spam a snare for low damage? One snare, get away, and start pelting them is all that's needed, and that's what we go. The cooldown allows for it to do more damage (to prevent the stand there and spam it technique).
@Bran: I'm glad you got the reference. I've been using it for years and only a handful of people have recognized it (and said something to me). Hurricane Neddy is among my favorite episodes of all time (behind You Only Move Twice, of course).
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TONS OF CHANGES!!!
Demon Hunter has Hatred generators now!!!
http://us.battle.net.../demon-hunter#.
Yeah but Fan of Knives has a 10 sec cooldown now.
Well the big complaints were about hatred running out too quickly and not doing enough damage compared to the other classes so they fixed the biggest problems.
For example, haunt used to do flat damage, now it scales with weapon damage. I'm sure there are lots of similar changes.
My linkhttp://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#c!
Sadly since we have Hatred generators now im going to assume Hatred acts like Fury or Spirit.
If it does then Rapid Fire wont be as powerful as it was before.
Impale got a boost in damage so Impale might replace it for me.
One of the things I most liked about Diii was that each class has a unique resource system. When they were first all announced they weren't radically different, but enough to provide flavor for each class. Now it really feels like Barb, Monk, and DH are pretty close.
Fury and Spirit were different enough to be ok, but adding a third class that builds a resource with half their skills and spends it with the other half feels kinda lame. I expected a more creative solution to the problem, or more subtle.
I liked that the DH had to pace themselves in combat and balance skill usage between Hatred and Discipline spells. But now it looks like I could ignore Discipline entirely if I wanted to.
I'm glad that they're trying to solve the problems with the DH, but it really feels like they took the easy way out on this one.
What made (and still makes) the DH's resource unique was the fact that it was split.
It used to basically be AP/mana, now its just kinda spirit/mana instead.
WANT BETA MOAR NAO
I haven't played it myself, so I guess I can't tell whether or not it's fun. It just seems like Barb, Monk, and Demon Hunter all kinda have the same rhythm to combat now. I'd be interested to know what happens to Hatred naturally. Perhaps it still regens naturally but even more slowly. That way you have the Barb that decays, the Monk that stays static, and the DH that regens.
Discipline just doesn't look all that interesting. It seems like you won't worry about it most of the time. Its basic function seems to be preventing utility skill spamming without needing to implement cooldowns (which is different than the other classes, granted).
Whatevs, I just was a bit disappointed to see 3/5 classes using the combo point style of DPS.
I am happy with the skill order changes, though. Impale at level 1 to give the DH a nuke right up front is pretty sweet. And skills like grenades and fan of knives that are much more situational being moved back to later levels seems like a nice fit.
How can it still be effective?
Now it's based on weapon damage, so it will do massively more damage than the old puny version.
@Prunetracy: First off, I love your name; that's one of my all time favorite Simpsons moments
But yeah, I agree I was kinda bummed that it's now just another version of the monk/barb, and I also kinda think that discipline management will never really be a problem. But I haven't played the beta yet either (DAMMIT!) so I'll give it a few sessions playing with the DH before I come to my conclusion
I guess so. I think i'm just still pissed about all these freaking cool-downs still lol. But 10 seconds... come on. Every type of rpg game I have ever played, cool-downs averaged between 1-5 seconds. Diablo 3 is supposed to be a fast paced action game where you absolutely obliterate large mobs around you and fly through them. If they are going to add cool downs they shouldn't at least be longer than 10 seconds. Fan of knives which i thought to be a spammable skill is now going to be incredibly dull for my play-style. I'm just so worried at what else blizzard decides to give cool-downs to, we already have a bunch of freaking 30 second cool-downs. =(
Only costs 2 Hatred a second with no cooldown and if you Obsidian rune it and have Ballistics passive on you do 270% weapons damage a second.
Think of it this way: You'll most likely do more damage now doing 1 FoK every 10 seconds than you would casting the old one for 10 seconds straight
BTW, I reealy dont like these changes as they are now, other than the weapon damage% buffs on skills. All they needed to do, is to boost the hatred regen and buff the damage(did the latter). The good thing was, that even though you more or less had to pick a few discipline skill, and then the hatred skills you like, but ir was more or less free choice. Now, I "have to" pick around 2-3 hatred generators, then 1-3 hatred spenders and then 1-2 discipline skills. I'm not feeling positive about this.
I don't wanna whine, at least they did the rework instead leaving it as it was, and we have to see how it actually works out, but I'm slowly turning away from the DH...
It's a tool you can use or not use, but it has its place.
I think it's old role was more strange. Why would the Demon Hunter voluntarily place themselves into the middle of a pack of monsters and spam a snare for low damage? One snare, get away, and start pelting them is all that's needed, and that's what we go. The cooldown allows for it to do more damage (to prevent the stand there and spam it technique).
@Bran: I'm glad you got the reference. I've been using it for years and only a handful of people have recognized it (and said something to me). Hurricane Neddy is among my favorite episodes of all time (behind You Only Move Twice, of course).