Paragon Runs vs Gold / Equipment

  • #1
    Having a hard time deciding what is the best use of my time right now. I need gold badly, never been north of 4mil.

    Just started playing again, on my Barb, and have been doing MP1 Alk runs for the last week. Not soley for speed paragon runs, but just as a efficient way to farm gold / drops.

    I am wondering if I should be doing something else? Like Vault of Assasin Runs or something else completely different? Heck, not even sure if I should be doing MP1 or something higher.

    Here is a link to my profile:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/NinetyProof-1177/hero/4176908

    I kind of have a handle on gear and upgrade path, somewhat, but I don't have the funds currently to make it happen. Any help / advise on this topic would be appreciated.
  • #2
    Well I'm not an expert on any level with a barb so I can't give any kind of advice on that, but as for making money it really depends on a few things.

    If you know your upgrade path then half the work is already out of the way. If you need gold / drops to sell on the AH then you just need to farm.

    The rule it seems is to do what ever MPx you can do with one shooting mobs still. This is because the rate at witch you kill mobs is faster and thus more drops and gold piles hitting the ground. Keep in mind that as you get more paragon levels your passive GF/MF will raise too. There is no real need to gear for MF/GF anymore. The only thing I could see would 'maybe' be some pickup radius but if your doing the WW build farming method your not going to be near mobs when they die half the time so might not need the pick up range on your gear.

    As for selling drops I have a thread going on selling stuff right now about my problems I've had getting things unloaded from my stash and what to pick up. Short answer is nothing that will sell for 100k or less will go on the AH. Mediocre items (stat rolls that is) are way to plentiful right now and don't need to even more flooded and pray one of your items sells. I've got to the point of salvaging set and lengendaires and selling the brimstones (witch oddly sell for more most of the time).

    While your farming You 'CAN' boost your MF/GF some with your follower but only if you got some gold to toss on him for what you need, other wise it's not worth it because they only get 20% of the contribution to your stats. And hey, at para 100 you don't need any mf or gf and nv and mp boot it over the 300% cap.

    Sorry if this was not much help. Happy hunting.
  • #3
    If you have absolutely no gold to upgrade: make sure to play with as low MP as possible to keep a fast killing pace and possibly no deaths. MP1 is not needed in act 3, so only set 1 or higher if you feel that it helps you with keeping up the wrath without losing to much overall run speed. Doing Alks is a solid method for both gaining exp and loot, nothing wrong there. Since your mf is still in the lower range you might want to take advantage of the NV for as long as possible. Maybe add a few areas with high monster density, like Skycrown Battlement or Rakkis Crossing. Vault of the Assasin is a nice area, but it is the only rather efficient area in act 2 and I'd rather not recommend it with low gear and paragon level. Might be something to get back to when you have high mf and don't need the NV bonus that much.

    If you have the gold to do some upgrades, I'd suggest addressing the following items first:
    - Get crit chance on your helm. If you miss the all-resist, maybe switch the War Cry rune to make up for that loss. Andariels with strength and a socket might be a decent option if there are no good rares within your price range.
    - Get crit chance on your amulet. With a WW-barb, especially if you want to use wrath, you should set your priority to getting as much crit chance (and maybe attack speed) as possible. Having a steady fury supply is more important than crit dmg. Don't get me wrong, get it in where it is possible as it is a great damage boost, but if you have to choose because of a lack of gold, go for crit chance.
    - The damage on your main hand is pretty low. The sprint tornados only factor in the main hand damage, so you should try to get in as much damage there as possible. A solid solution is usually to focus on high base damage and damage stats on the main hand and keep the survivability part (i.e. life on hit / life leech) on the offhand. You already have blackthorne pants to boost LoH.
    - If you find yourself loosing to much health when switching to new gear, maybe exchange the socketed rubies for some amethysts. Having 40k+ life really helps in tight situations.

    Sidenote somewhat unrelated to your barb, but to the gaining gold topic: Farming for a leorics ring might be a quick way to boost your cash if you practically start from zero. Of course RNG is a big factor as always, but I decided to try it myself today. Put in about 1 mil in monk equip to get a solid combination of MF and non-stop tempest rush. Had a leorics after about an hour. Dunno if I was very lucky there, maybe someone else can comment on that; just thought it might help considering they usually go for 20m upwards.
  • #4
    MP0 farming i assume would be nice. get stuff killed fast and better XP farmign to get some paragon and get some drops on the way.
  • #5
    One way of going at is.. Doing what the masses seem to agree on is the "most efficient" way of farming. Alk at whatever MP your gear can handle without noticable slowdown.
    And then cross your fingers and hope you get lucky with some good items.

    As Kodaijin said, AH is wierd, Low and Mid end items are a bit tricky to sell, seems like luck is a big factor here aswell since the marked is flooded with soiled crap, and less soiled crap.

    I do still believe that GF is the wrong way to go tho, its gonna take a HELL of a lot of piles of gold to make up for a 1m item.

    However. I find it refreshing to just do a few runs in ACT 1 on MP 8 (which is about the limit my character can handle) just to spice things up a bit every now and then. This also makes the Alk runs less tedious when i do, do them. and ive actually found some of my best items on those runs. guess RNG is my friend in wierd places. cuz im sure as hell never finding good stuff on the Alk runs. But thats prolly just me :), since the numbers arent in my favor on this argument.
    (sorry for the dodo, but it seemed to fit since i kinda find Alk runs to be a big pile of boring DoDo).
  • #6
    IMO what you should do is go down to mp0 and just do alk runs, pick up only legendaries and 63 rares plus 60+ rings/ammys. Also try to find someone who buys unID rings/ammys i got multiple contacts one buys all ringsammys for 90k then i have one guy that only buys 62 rings and ammys but at 300k each. So its a good constant source of income, any legendarys that suck brimestone and sell. Also i would recommend upgrade 5mill at a time, try to see what would make you go faster in mp0? More Dmg? Less Deaths? if less deaths b/c of health/loh/ar? or Movespeed ect.

    If you need any more advice pm me, i don't play a barb so i can't help there but i can with farming ;)
  • #7

    One way of going at is.. Doing what the masses seem to agree on is the "most efficient" way of farming. Alk at whatever MP your gear can handle without noticable slowdown.
    And then cross your fingers and hope you get lucky with some good items.

    As Kodaijin said, AH is wierd, Low and Mid end items are a bit tricky to sell, seems like luck is a big factor here aswell since the marked is flooded with soiled crap, and less soiled crap.

    I do still believe that GF is the wrong way to go tho, its gonna take a HELL of a lot of piles of gold to make up for a 1m item.

    However. I find it refreshing to just do a few runs in ACT 1 on MP 8 (which is about the limit my character can handle) just to spice things up a bit every now and then. This also makes the Alk runs less tedious when i do, do them. and ive actually found some of my best items on those runs. guess RNG is my friend in wierd places. cuz im sure as hell never finding good stuff on the Alk runs. But thats prolly just me :), since the numbers arent in my favor on this argument.
    (sorry for the dodo, but it seemed to fit since i kinda find Alk runs to be a big pile of boring DoDo).


    Alk and similar runs are usually mentioned when it comes to efficiency as they are a consistent way of farming. If you get bored after doing one, it is most likely not the optimal way for you personally. If you have something different that keeps you playing for hours while doing something, that is said to be somewhat optimal by the masses, lets you quit after mere minutes, do it your own way. However getting closer to the most popular routines usually means more loot on average.

    As for higher MP levels, it usually brings in the challenge, keeping you a bit more on the edge rather than mindlessly running through easy content. The rewards however are numerically not favoring this. Picking up an example of MP8 vs. MP0 for act 3, where MP is not needed:
    - Your base mf is 100%
    - For both cases, your gear/paragon mf is considered to be +300%, giving you a total of 400%mf
    - While NV stacks apply for both cases, they can be somewhat neglected from my personal experiences. I've found plenty of legendary items without or with lower than 5 stacks, including drops from goblins.
    - Going from MP0 to MP8 would give you another +200%mf, netting 600%, i.e. a 50% increase in mf
    - For elites, you can simply say that this 50% increase should not be outweighed by a bigger increase in time spent on an elite pack. This is however speaking on average. Within a short time span doing MP8 might appear to be more efficient as it "reduces the risk of getting nothing". The more consistent you'll farm, the more you'll realize that you'd be better off with quantity over quality.
    - As for the bonus loot chance on normal monsters, this in fact is quite nice on higher MP levels, but this only pays off if you can keep a solid killing pace as well. Keep in mind that the bonus drop only applies if an initial drop has happened. If for example an average mob has a 30% chance to drop something, the bonus loot chance only applies to those 30% when the initial drop happens.
  • #8


    One way of going at is.. Doing what the masses seem to agree on is the "most efficient" way of farming. Alk at whatever MP your gear can handle without noticable slowdown.
    And then cross your fingers and hope you get lucky with some good items.

    As Kodaijin said, AH is wierd, Low and Mid end items are a bit tricky to sell, seems like luck is a big factor here aswell since the marked is flooded with soiled crap, and less soiled crap.

    I do still believe that GF is the wrong way to go tho, its gonna take a HELL of a lot of piles of gold to make up for a 1m item.

    However. I find it refreshing to just do a few runs in ACT 1 on MP 8 (which is about the limit my character can handle) just to spice things up a bit every now and then. This also makes the Alk runs less tedious when i do, do them. and ive actually found some of my best items on those runs. guess RNG is my friend in wierd places. cuz im sure as hell never finding good stuff on the Alk runs. But thats prolly just me :), since the numbers arent in my favor on this argument.
    (sorry for the dodo, but it seemed to fit since i kinda find Alk runs to be a big pile of boring DoDo).


    Alk and similar runs are usually mentioned when it comes to efficiency as they are a consistent way of farming. If you get bored after doing one, it is most likely not the optimal way for you personally. If you have something different that keeps you playing for hours while doing something, that is said to be somewhat optimal by the masses, lets you quit after mere minutes, do it your own way. However getting closer to the most popular routines usually means more loot on average.

    As for higher MP levels, it usually brings in the challenge, keeping you a bit more on the edge rather than mindlessly running through easy content. The rewards however are numerically not favoring this. Picking up an example of MP8 vs. MP0 for act 3, where MP is not needed:
    - Your base mf is 100%
    - For both cases, your gear/paragon mf is considered to be +300%, giving you a total of 400%mf
    - While NV stacks apply for both cases, they can be somewhat neglected from my personal experiences. I've found plenty of legendary items without or with lower than 5 stacks, including drops from goblins.
    - Going from MP0 to MP8 would give you another +200%mf, netting 600%, i.e. a 50% increase in mf
    - For elites, you can simply say that this 50% increase should not be outweighed by a bigger increase in time spent on an elite pack. This is however speaking on average. Within a short time span doing MP8 might appear to be more efficient as it "reduces the risk of getting nothing". The more consistent you'll farm, the more you'll realize that you'd be better off with quantity over quality.
    - As for the bonus loot chance on normal monsters, this in fact is quite nice on higher MP levels, but this only pays off if you can keep a solid killing pace as well. Keep in mind that the bonus drop only applies if an initial drop has happened. If for example an average mob has a 30% chance to drop something, the bonus loot chance only applies to those 30% when the initial drop happens.


    As i said in my post. I find it boring, Not less efficient.
    If i didnt believe the notion of it being more effective i wouldnt run Alks over and over, even if i find it boring as i described it.
    I just find it a nice change of pace to do something else every now and then, and ive had some luck on those runs. Guess RNG is my friend there.

    Yes. Kill that much faster = More items = More loot rolls = More chances of great items = WIN.

    When i referred to "seems to agree on is the most efficient" all i ment was that we cannot tell with absolute certanty.
    Whats best today might not be tomorrow when new things are discovered.

    The reasoning behind this is the debate on what MF does. I cant post links but im sure you read the very in depth thread on MF and peoples findings. Very detailed post.

    There are still some interesting points. especially the % of drops with 4, 5 or 6 affixes. How large a role does MF play here.(past the Soft Cap at 300) are there thresholds at 400, 500, etc. Sample size is still not large enough to determine.
    But im looking forward to seing what the future brings.

    Bit off topic. sorry NinetyProof.

    PS:. cant post links yet. The thread about MF is over on the Theorycrafting section stickied under the name
    "magic-find-and-its-efficiency-a-statistical-insight"
    Great read.
  • #9


    I do still believe that GF is the wrong way to go tho, its gonna take a HELL of a lot of piles of gold to make up for a 1m item.



    I do Alk runs with my Monk picking up all gold piles. I consistently average a gold farming rate of 650,000 gold / hour. If you pick up the gold, open the chests and turn over the bodies it is quite easy to build up a multi-million gold war chest. It gets even better if you strap on GF & pickup radius items.

    Granted, stopping to pick up what drops is a huge killer to XP farming efficiency but what's the rush? When you get to Paragon 100 most folks stop playing or start leveling another character anyway.
  • #10
    so, considering that survivability is not much of an issue, are there any guidelines as to what kind of dps you should have for a particular mp level? i play a 2h ww barb and am around 75k ish dps. mp0 is no problem, will check 1-3 myself but was wondering if there are any guidelines of that kind floating around.
  • #11
    OP here and things are moving along, gear is getting better, yet I still don't have enough crit or IAS. Lots of good feedback.

    Good feedback as it may be, the quandary I face is still the same. Do I speed through Alk runs leaving mobs to die in my tornados off screen ... or do I double back to pick up gold and the rares (or even legendaries) that drop?

    As a WW barb, if I am not using Tornados, then I am fury starved ... but if I am not doubling back, I am leaving gold/rares to rot.

    If I am doubling back, then it's a big waste of time with regards to paragon farming ... and is quite boring to just run through picking up piles / rares.

    So, in the end, I guess it's not really something that you guys can answer. If I hate leaving stuff to rot, then I either bump up MP to the point where stuff is dying slower so I get the tornado ticks and am still around killing them ... or I do MP0 and just double back and change my style a bit.

    Decisions, Decisions, Decisions ....
  • #12
    Well try both and see what fits you well. In the end, the satisfaction and fun should be the most important factor.

    Anyway, if you are going for fastest XP, leave all gear except legendaries and jewelery/gloves/some other 63+ items that are nearby and dont backtrack.

    If you are going for loot/gold, then ofcourse backtrack (you might miss on amulets/rings, good gloves or weapons etc.), bumping the MP to a level where you actually stay to slay the monsters is not a bad idea, XP/hour will suffer, loot a bit too I guess (items/hour) but it shouldn't be really that drastic.
  • #13
    It depends what your goals are. If you want to level then just keep running. If you want to make some money, then pick stuff up. I can tell you I have found some very good items in mp0 including something I found yesterday that could potentially sell for over 100m. Personally, I'd rather keep my half hour runs and know I'm not missing anything rather than level as quickly as possible.
  • #14

    It depends what your goals are. If you want to level then just keep running. If you want to make some money, then pick stuff up. I can tell you I have found some very good items in mp0 including something I found yesterday that could potentially sell for over 100m. Personally, I'd rather keep my half hour runs and know I'm not missing anything rather than level as quickly as possible.


    Yea, that is kind of where I am at. I constantly backtrack and pick up a rare that dropped from a nado tick. It's one of the reasons I am not WoTF anymore, as it doesn't make a lot of sense to run real fast through a level, only to go back through on normal speed to pick up stuff.

    I guess I am stuck on the "picking up stuff" part. I guess once I get to the point where I have 100mil+ in gold I might feel differently.
  • #15


    It depends what your goals are. If you want to level then just keep running. If you want to make some money, then pick stuff up. I can tell you I have found some very good items in mp0 including something I found yesterday that could potentially sell for over 100m. Personally, I'd rather keep my half hour runs and know I'm not missing anything rather than level as quickly as possible.


    Yea, that is kind of where I am at. I constantly backtrack and pick up a rare that dropped from a nado tick. It's one of the reasons I am not WoTF anymore, as it doesn't make a lot of sense to run real fast through a level, only to go back through on normal speed to pick up stuff.

    I guess I am stuck on the "picking up stuff" part. I guess once I get to the point where I have 100mil+ in gold I might feel differently.


    Have you considered playing a 2-handed WW-Build? I've been running it for a while now for low MP levels and always keep coming back to it when I played dual wield for a while for ubers or something else on higher MP levels. Dual wield mostly caters the need of generating a lot of fury to keep up WotB. If you feel like you can play without it anyway, a 2-handed build might give you a nice alternative. Using a decent combination of fury generation from passives (animosity + unforgiving perhaps) and active skills (leap / charge / overpower (momentum rocks for that purpose) you might sustain enough fury to whirl and maybe use some other damage skill like rend (your belt already has some rend reduction). If you want to try it out, search for a cheap strength scorn, maybe one with attack speed to slightly boost the fury generation. Lifeleech isn't that important on low level farming and you can still get a better one if you feel like this playstyle suits you; but you also have options like the lifeleech rend rune to boost survivability.

    I found that with a 2-handed build i killed monsters faster and this resulted in less necessary backtracking, as more monsters already died in my line of sight. And there is a lot of burst-damage potential with a combo on elite monsters, like leap with pull, overpower and rend / hammer of the ancients.
  • #16
    When I do Alkaizer runs I want to optimize both the XP gained and the economics (gold/loot). Get gear that puts your mf/gf at or close to the 300% cap. You can get 20-25% off your follower, and there are lots of affordable items that will give you both gf and mf (Depth diggers) or at least one of them (Blackthornes pants for 20 mf). Even Lacunis are cheap with dual mf/gf. As you get to p50-60 you can start replacing mf/gf for more dps.

    Pickup is a lot more expensive, but usually cheap on rare shoulders and gloves. If you have money for a Leoric ring you get 7 pickup. I'm getting around 65m XP, 750k gold and 1-2 legendaries per hour, doing MP0 alk runs, with about 100k dps and pretty pathetic gear. Picking up only legendaries is a big sin to me, but I definately don't pick up all 63 lvl items. No point in picking up non-legendary boots/chests/helms since they basically never sell. Rings/neck/gloves are a whole other deal since rare are usually best in slot.
  • #17


    It depends what your goals are. If you want to level then just keep running. If you want to make some money, then pick stuff up. I can tell you I have found some very good items in mp0 including something I found yesterday that could potentially sell for over 100m. Personally, I'd rather keep my half hour runs and know I'm not missing anything rather than level as quickly as possible.


    Yea, that is kind of where I am at. I constantly backtrack and pick up a rare that dropped from a nado tick. It's one of the reasons I am not WoTF anymore, as it doesn't make a lot of sense to run real fast through a level, only to go back through on normal speed to pick up stuff.

    I guess I am stuck on the "picking up stuff" part. I guess once I get to the point where I have 100mil+ in gold I might feel differently.


    I'm in the same boat as you, thats one reason why I don't like ww/sprint builds.
    I'm much more a fun of cleave or hota builds.

    Sometimes I run higher monster power with a 2-hand cleave / rend build, which is a lot of fun and I don't have the feeling that I'm missing some gold pile or good items on the ground.
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