I don't care what people do, I really don't, so long as we're not talking about hacking, duping, issues that can indirectly/directly affect my experience.
But let's be honest. Blizzard allows this because it leads to substantial profit. Many 3rd party programs don't affect other players. Many 3rd party programs don't give an advantage (dark d3). But these programs don't provide Blizzard with a profit advantage, thusly, they are forbidden.
Call it smart business, call it dubious, I suppose the truth is in the eye of the beholder. But certainly this is allowed solely on the basis that it provides increased profit margins. No other 3rd party programs do this.
Being able to run 4 copies simultaneously IS an advantage. This game revolves around items, and when a player can trade items to himself from 4 accounts, said player is enjoying a distinctive advantage over players that choose not to participate, whether due to a distaste for the cheap practice, or financial reasons.
seriously tho. you nailed it. It is all about money and profits. They are a business. selling 4 units instead of 1 units to a customer. i mean come on. how the fuck could anyone be mad about this. in the long run. it is better for everyone. wtf are people crying about multi boxing.
Who the fuck wants a business NOT to make more money.
@ruksak: Not true. We have a variety of multiboxers in our clan. They play a lot (their multibox-twinks are relatively high in paragon). They can farm T6 efficiently. Yet, their gear is not better than that of any other player who is online for a similar amount of time. As I've pointed out, this "advantage" is a myth, period.
So being able to harvest 4 times as many items in a given time frame ......ISN'T an advantage?
Certainly you're joking, right?
PS: In your earlier post you said people cannot farm T6 effectively while multi-boxing. Now you're saying they can. Which is it? It sounds like you're reaching to defend this aspect.
Regarding Blizzard's motivations for multiboxing - so what?
Smart business. They'd be remiss not to. I wasn't saying they are crooked for this. I just claimed we should be honest about it. They allow it because it adds money to their coffers, period.
If there was a multibox program that allowed you to run four chars simultaneously on 1 account, it would be entirely forbidden, and you know this.
I don't care what people do, I really don't, so long as we're not talking about hacking, duping, issues that can indirectly/directly affect my experience.
But let's be honest. Blizzard allows this because it leads to substantial profit. Many 3rd party programs don't affect other players. Many 3rd party programs don't give an advantage (dark d3). But these programs don't provide Blizzard with a profit advantage, thusly, they are forbidden.
Call it smart business, call it dubious, I suppose the truth is in the eye of the beholder. But certainly this is allowed solely on the basis that it provides increased profit margins. No other 3rd party programs do this.
Being able to run 4 copies simultaneously IS an advantage. This game revolves around items, and when a player can trade items to himself from 4 accounts, said player is enjoying a distinctive advantage over players that choose not to participate, whether due to a distaste for the cheap practice, or financial reasons.
seriously tho. you nailed it. It is all about money and profits. They are a business. selling 4 units instead of 1 units to a customer. i mean come on. how the fuck could anyone be mad about this. in the long run. it is better for everyone. wtf are people crying about multi boxing.
Who the fuck wants a business NOT to make more money.
I'd do it too (allowing my company to sell extra copies for multiboxing). It makes sense. This is not a subscription game, and I'm all for anything that adds to their profitability in regard to D3. The more they make, the more incentive they have to continue expanding and dev'ing this game.
Certainly I accept them allowing this, but it is what it is, as my grand pappy would say.
Though I would find it silly and I wouldn't personally participate, I'd be all for them having micro transactions for cosmetics if they chose to. It would help fund this ongoing project. To that end, we should all turn a blind eye to such practices if it helps the game grow and doesn't adversely suppress your experience through distinct disadvantage.
I don't particularly care if a person can crop 4 times the items in a given time. Mostly because one could make the case that an unemployed bachelor has more of an advantage than a fully employed family man.
There is a difference between a player having an advantage and another player being at a disadvantage. Multiboxing doesn't place me, personally at a disadvantage in any regard.
I think I was using the wrong word, let's call it "effectively". Yes, of course softcore, not hardcore, and not nearly as fast as decent heterogeneous T6 groups. Btw, I'm not multiboxing myself, just some of our clan members are, which gave me this entirely different perspective and made me aware that they're not at an advantage at all. You also described this in detail in your post, and I highlighted it again, but ruksak seems to be on a crusade against multiboxers and a company that wants to make money (D'oh!) so I'm tired of arguing for the same points again and again and again.
Bring this topic back to a sane level of discussion and leave tinfoil hat theories (no matter how realistic they are) out or this will be closed. Thanks.
In your earlier post you said people cannot farm T6 effectively while multi-boxing. Now you're saying they can. Which is it? It sounds like you're reaching to defend this aspect.
I think it was me who hinted at that point that you can not efficiently do T6, I dont know which mode Bagstone plays and he might be talking about MB in softcore. But even in Softcore I doubt any MB comes close to 3-4 Bil XP/Hour rifts like you can if you are running a normal 4man party.
1) Multiboxing does not give you any advantage at this point, you're better off in creating an efficient group with your friends. High Greater Rifts (45+) are virtually impossible with multiboxing, and T6 is significantly slower with multiboxing,
...and then;
span>They play a lot (their multibox-twinks are relatively high in paragon). They can farm T6 efficiently
Not trying to be a pain in the asshole, I'm just a bit confused. To be honest, I have no idea about multiboxing whatsoever, what it entails and how it goes down.
I think I was using the wrong word, let's call it "effectively". Yes, of course softcore, not hardcore, and not nearly as fast as decent heterogeneous T6 groups. Btw, I'm not multiboxing myself, just some of our clan members are, which gave me this entirely different perspective and made me aware that they're not at an advantage at all. You also described this in detail in your post, and I highlighted it again, but ruksak seems to be on a crusade against multiboxers and a company that wants to make money (D'oh!) so I'm tired of arguing for the same points again and again and again.
Bring this topic back to a sane level of discussion and leave tinfoil hat theories (no matter how realistic they are) out or this will be closed. Thanks.
What are you on about? My posts clearly show I don't care if people do this, I displayed that I understand MB'ing being allowed on the basis of profit. The disingenuous language (as well as throwing your weight around) isn't very becoming. If you can't step up and admit that profit is the motivation for MB, that's your issue to deal with. Be it wrong or right, it is what it is.
MB'ing from 1 account = illicit. MB from 4 accounts = allowed. Tell me why?
You're being a bit silly and not actually bothering to read what I've typed.
Mboxing can be a huge advantage for players who don't have friends / are not part of a clan / playing group. But an optimized group (4x same char or not) will always trump the effectiveness of mboxing unless you are farming certain spots for goblins when the 2x gobs buff is active. Mboxing also requires a lot of time to set up and maintain just like Funkenstein mentioned, which is one of the cons too.
@Ruksak: What do you mean with mboxing with 1 account? That would mean that you somehow hacked the game and are able to log on 4 of your different characters at the same time and join the same game... This is obviously next to impossible due to hardcoded limitations... Most likely. Maybe i didn't understand what you meant but mboxing from 1 account is just not possible and if someone would manage to achieve such a thing he would get banned on the spot because it means that he is messing around with the server by feeding it false information which basically means that he has a client(s) emulator of some sort running alongside the conventional client.
@Ruksak: What do you mean with mboxing with 1 account? That would mean that you somehow hacked the game and are able to log on 4 of your different characters at the same time and join the same game... This is obviously next to impossible due to hardcoded limitations... Most likely. Maybe i didn't understand what you meant but mboxing from 1 account is just not possible and if someone would manage to achieve such a thing he would get banned on the spot because it means that he is messing around with the server by feeding it false information which basically means that he has a client(s) emulator of some sort running alongside the conventional client.
It was just for example; A Hypothetical; If there was a program that allowed you to multibox with 1 account (logged in 4 times simultaneously, nevermind how), it would not be allowed.
However, there is a program that allows people to play 4 chars at once, with 4 accounts. To me, the only distinction is that Blizzard didn't get paid.
@Ruksak: What do you mean with mboxing with 1 account? That would mean that you somehow hacked the game and are able to log on 4 of your different characters at the same time and join the same game... This is obviously next to impossible due to hardcoded limitations... Most likely. Maybe i didn't understand what you meant but mboxing from 1 account is just not possible and if someone would manage to achieve such a thing he would get banned on the spot because it means that he is messing around with the server by feeding it false information which basically means that he has a client(s) emulator of some sort running alongside the conventional client.
It was just for example; A Hypothetical; If there was a program that allowed you to multibox with 1 account (logged in 4 times simultaneously, nevermind how), it would not be allowed.
However, there is a program that allows people to play 4 chars at once, with 4 accounts. To me, the only distinction is that Blizzard didn't get paid.
It would not be allowed not just because you didn't pay for 4 accounts but also because the game is not built like this, and such an act will probably create a mess on the server + database. A client is not built to host more than one playing session and i'm pretty sure that's hardcoded. If such a program existed, it still wouldn't work on live because of authentication issues and such. It would jsut be a program you can use on sandboxes and emulated servers / clients.
Anyway Blizzard is a corporation and their goal is to earn money. I don't see how that proves anything. It's just a fact and a reality. Of course they would be happy if you bought a copy of the game more than once. But to say that they don't allow people running a spoofed 4x client setup of some sort with one bought copy just because of money is just wrong because that assumption totally disregards things like authenticity, security and the nature of the actual code behind the game servers.
I say again, I don't care if other people MB, as it doesn't place me at a disadvantage if they do. I only care about 3rd party issues if it affects me, if it places me at a disadvantage while sharing a game with them.
Being told I'm "On a crusade against multiboxing" is fucking ridiculous, considering I've said multiple times that I don't care, it doesn't affect me, I understand why they allow it from a business standpoint.
IF......if there was a way to multibox without buying extra copies, it wouldn't be allowed, period. What that FACT means to the individual is out of my control. I didn't mean to imply any negative connotation by stating this, I just said it. Don't confuse me with people that rail against MB as if it hurts the community.
This next bit is completely off-topic. I saw a sign the other day that said "Watch for falling rocks". Which seems so negative. It should say "Watch for pretty rocks".
Does MB really affect the leader boards?...., compared to having a kick ass group plowing there way threw Grifts? do it tho? is MB players dominating the leader boards?
Does MB really affect the leader boards?...., compared to having a kick ass group plowing there way threw Grifts? do it tho? is MB players dominating the leader boards?
Feel free to give an example at anytime. The same generic response isnt doing it for me. Im not talking about the virtual machine, im talking about the automation and pickit.
Feel free to give an example at anytime. The same generic response isnt doing it for me. Im not talking about the virtual machine, im talking about the automation and pickit.
Are you going to give a definition of a hack at some point and then try to fit multibox software, which is specialized virtualization software, into that definition somehow? Maybe it seems like a hack to someone who is not very savy with tech. But it really isn't something special. Would it be OK if it was 4 different computers controlled with the same mouse? Or 3 hardware mice + keyboard being controlled by 1 other hardware mouse and keyboard. Why make the distinction between virtual and hardware? becuase one is easier to do?
I didnt call it a hack, i called it a third party ap. Which is why this debate is puzzling. Third party software is illegal in d3 according to the tos.
"Actually the benefits of Multiboxing are relatively low."
vs
"Sure, if you are farming for a specific legendary it is nice to be able to Multibox since the chances to get it are better."
But Blizzard allows it, and only because of that it is not cheating. From a computer tech perspective it's the right decision by them.
The advantage of multiboxing, is best visible at start of season, how fast you gear up, and can farm at T6.
Getting full m6 in hours, instead of days, gives a competitive head start on the leaderboards yes ?
That's not contradictory at all, if you consider the whole of his post instead of those two lines. The work required to get everything set up is not not worth the results.
If you're farming for a specific legendary, you can simply join a class lootshare group, which requires little-to-no setup.
Also, one could get full M6 faster in a proper 4-player group than in a multiboxed group. Granted, those players will be feeding items to him, but that's a perk regularly enjoyed by popular D3 streamers. Indeed, it's exactly how the first seasonal level 70s leveled up -- friends of theirs looked for the good quests and invited the chosen one into their games -- they fed him quests, just like they feed xp or loot.
In other words, multiboxing provides no advantage over playing with 3 other players, which is the only accurate comparison that can be made. You cannot compare a multiboxer to a person playing a single account.
I say again, I don't care if other people MB, as it doesn't place me at a disadvantage if they do. I only care about 3rd party issues if it affects me, if it places me at a disadvantage while sharing a game with them.
Being told I'm "On a crusade against multiboxing" is fucking ridiculous, considering I've said multiple times that I don't care, it doesn't affect me, I understand why they allow it from a business standpoint.
IF......if there was a way to multibox without buying extra copies, it wouldn't be allowed, period. What that FACT means to the individual is out of my control. I didn't mean to imply any negative connotation by stating this, I just said it. Don't confuse me with people that rail against MB as if it hurts the community.
This next bit is completely off-topic. I saw a sign the other day that said "Watch for falling rocks". Which seems so negative. It should say "Watch for pretty rocks".
How do you know it would not be allowed because not more copies are being bought? Since you claim this as FACT I'm sure you have an example of a situation where this has occurred?
As long as software doesn't modify the diablo 3 software, or reverse engineers data used by diablo3 in an unauthorized way etc. it would not be against the EULA. However being able to use 1 account 4 times simultaniously would almost certainly require circumventing or redirecting the authentication mechanism which is clearly against the EULA. For obvious reasons.
It is not that Blizzard allows multiboxing because it gets them more profits, it is that multiboxing that is allowed doesn't violate the EULA to begin with. Unless you can show us that there was a time where all multiboxing software was against the EULA and they changed the EULA with the explicit motivation of getting more money, it is all in your mind which appears to default to extremely cynical thoughts.
Really I'm interested in where you get your facts. Because it would mean I have learned something new.
Blizzard Tracker: May 25, 2013
"As we have mentioned many times before, 3rd-party mods are not allowed in conjunction with Diablo III, period. We do not support them, and choosing to use them may lead to penalties taken against your account, up-to and including permanent account closure.
I appreciate that this topic may not have been originally meant for the Customer Support Forum, but as it’s now here I’m afraid I can only continue to provide you with our official stance on multiboxing (which you may well have heard before).
The simultaneous use of multiple game clients and multiple accounts by the account holder of said accounts is fully allowed within the game Terms of Use as long as no actual automation is taking place (i.e. as long as one keypress only initiates one actionper client)."
Dark D3 doesn't provide any advantage whatsoever, but it is not allowed. Maybe if it required buying more copies, Dark D3 would be just spiffy by Blizz, aye?
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I'd like to see a list of 3rd party software that IS allowed.
SO............The current list of allowable 3rd party software is
1) "Certain" Multibox programs.
2) Who fucking knows?
span>Also answer me this: do you understand why PR has to publically say that mods are not allowed?
Sure. Liability.
Answer me this; Do you not see how MB is, in fact, a program that gives an advantage to those whom use it? Under the purview of the AH's (when they were up), this advantage was profound. The MB programs were still allowed.
Who the fuck wants a business NOT to make more money.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
Certainly you're joking, right?
PS: In your earlier post you said people cannot farm T6 effectively while multi-boxing. Now you're saying they can. Which is it? It sounds like you're reaching to defend this aspect.
Smart business. They'd be remiss not to. I wasn't saying they are crooked for this. I just claimed we should be honest about it. They allow it because it adds money to their coffers, period.
If there was a multibox program that allowed you to run four chars simultaneously on 1 account, it would be entirely forbidden, and you know this.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Certainly I accept them allowing this, but it is what it is, as my grand pappy would say.
Though I would find it silly and I wouldn't personally participate, I'd be all for them having micro transactions for cosmetics if they chose to. It would help fund this ongoing project. To that end, we should all turn a blind eye to such practices if it helps the game grow and doesn't adversely suppress your experience through distinct disadvantage.
I don't particularly care if a person can crop 4 times the items in a given time. Mostly because one could make the case that an unemployed bachelor has more of an advantage than a fully employed family man.
There is a difference between a player having an advantage and another player being at a disadvantage. Multiboxing doesn't place me, personally at a disadvantage in any regard.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Bring this topic back to a sane level of discussion and leave tinfoil hat theories (no matter how realistic they are) out or this will be closed. Thanks.
...and then;
Not trying to be a pain in the asshole, I'm just a bit confused. To be honest, I have no idea about multiboxing whatsoever, what it entails and how it goes down.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
MB'ing from 1 account = illicit. MB from 4 accounts = allowed. Tell me why?
You're being a bit silly and not actually bothering to read what I've typed.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
@Ruksak: What do you mean with mboxing with 1 account? That would mean that you somehow hacked the game and are able to log on 4 of your different characters at the same time and join the same game... This is obviously next to impossible due to hardcoded limitations... Most likely. Maybe i didn't understand what you meant but mboxing from 1 account is just not possible and if someone would manage to achieve such a thing he would get banned on the spot because it means that he is messing around with the server by feeding it false information which basically means that he has a client(s) emulator of some sort running alongside the conventional client.
However, there is a program that allows people to play 4 chars at once, with 4 accounts. To me, the only distinction is that Blizzard didn't get paid.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Anyway Blizzard is a corporation and their goal is to earn money. I don't see how that proves anything. It's just a fact and a reality. Of course they would be happy if you bought a copy of the game more than once. But to say that they don't allow people running a spoofed 4x client setup of some sort with one bought copy just because of money is just wrong because that assumption totally disregards things like authenticity, security and the nature of the actual code behind the game servers.
Being told I'm "On a crusade against multiboxing" is fucking ridiculous, considering I've said multiple times that I don't care, it doesn't affect me, I understand why they allow it from a business standpoint.
IF......if there was a way to multibox without buying extra copies, it wouldn't be allowed, period. What that FACT means to the individual is out of my control. I didn't mean to imply any negative connotation by stating this, I just said it. Don't confuse me with people that rail against MB as if it hurts the community.
This next bit is completely off-topic. I saw a sign the other day that said "Watch for falling rocks". Which seems so negative. It should say "Watch for pretty rocks".
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lUDY5QpCz3I
If it doesnt give you an advantage you should sue to dev for false advertising
"Actually the benefits of Multiboxing are relatively low."
vs
"Sure, if you are farming for a specific legendary it is nice to be able to Multibox since the chances to get it are better."
But Blizzard allows it, and only because of that it is not cheating. From a computer tech perspective it's the right decision by them.
The advantage of multiboxing, is best visible at start of season, how fast you gear up, and can farm at T6.
Getting full m6 in hours, instead of days, gives a competitive head start on the leaderboards yes ?
If you're farming for a specific legendary, you can simply join a class lootshare group, which requires little-to-no setup.
Also, one could get full M6 faster in a proper 4-player group than in a multiboxed group. Granted, those players will be feeding items to him, but that's a perk regularly enjoyed by popular D3 streamers. Indeed, it's exactly how the first seasonal level 70s leveled up -- friends of theirs looked for the good quests and invited the chosen one into their games -- they fed him quests, just like they feed xp or loot.
In other words, multiboxing provides no advantage over playing with 3 other players, which is the only accurate comparison that can be made. You cannot compare a multiboxer to a person playing a single account.
As for spammers, why? Really why? It's not like your going to retire selling virtual trinkets online for one game.
"As we have mentioned many times before, 3rd-party mods are not allowed in conjunction with Diablo III, period. We do not support them, and choosing to use them may lead to penalties taken against your account, up-to and including permanent account closure.
I appreciate that this topic may not have been originally meant for the Customer Support Forum, but as it’s now here I’m afraid I can only continue to provide you with our official stance on multiboxing (which you may well have heard before).
The simultaneous use of multiple game clients and multiple accounts by the account holder of said accounts is fully allowed within the game Terms of Use as long as no actual automation is taking place (i.e. as long as one keypress only initiates one actionper client)."
Dark D3 doesn't provide any advantage whatsoever, but it is not allowed. Maybe if it required buying more copies, Dark D3 would be just spiffy by Blizz, aye?
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I'd like to see a list of 3rd party software that IS allowed.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
1) "Certain" Multibox programs.
2) Who fucking knows?
Sure. Liability.
Answer me this; Do you not see how MB is, in fact, a program that gives an advantage to those whom use it? Under the purview of the AH's (when they were up), this advantage was profound. The MB programs were still allowed.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan