Lol the funniest are the people who say a 3 man group posting "last one in pays" is some kind of scam. It's completely not and it's the EXACT same thing as saying "1 spot, you open.".
No, it's not. Guess what, that's why those people actually do NOT say "you pay". "Last one opens" implis there is a chance you do not pay, which is plain scamming in this case. And I have no problem joining a "1 spot you open" because people are honest and upfront, and am not really short on keys either. It's all about the intent.
No crap, but this is not a "you get free blood shards" community. It's a "someone gets to open a new rift for a free boss and shards" community. When I run with anyone beyond myself, I'll often just say "last in opens" because then I have to type less. I don't have to explain there are 2 slots, and lowest PLVL of the joiners openers, etc.
Also, you ARE the last to join, you're just an ass for thinking you should be able to game the system and make yourself less likely to open. Your chance of opening the rift is anywhere from 33% to 100%. I don't owe you any more information than that. Want to join?
But honestly, please keep trying such tactics. It makes it really easy for people who don't care if they pay or not (Which is truly in the spirit of the channel, IMO) like myself to just right-click-> request invite to someone as I'm reading it, thus getting in before someone screening 100% of the time.
Actually that is the whole point of RiF when you are looking for openers, you are meant to say how many spots you have free, where you are (Boss or %clear) and High Middle or Low Paragon opening.
T5 + 2 Low para opens (21 chars)
T5 + 2 Last in opens (20 chars
One Character, Less than 1/10th of a second, also pressing up and enter is hard work.
You don't even need to do that. If you're running the same thing over and over, type your message in notepad, then ctrl c, ctrl v
Yes but then this gives information to people trying to game the system and get free rifts, and I consider it a privilege to cost them rift keys.
Actually that is the whole point of RiF when you are looking for openers, you are meant to say how many spots you have free, where you are (Boss or %clear) and High Middle or Low Paragon opening.
T5 + 2 Low para opens (21 chars)
T5 + 2 Last in opens (20 chars
One Character, Less than 1/10th of a second, also pressing up and enter is hard work.
Actually, no sir. Here's the original post: (Formatting original)
The rules (To explain it a bit more): *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift. Turn off "quick join" in your options menu (under the social panel) This community will only work if you make your own games too. So when you don't feel like clearing full levels, join some games. When you want to get some free rifts, make some.
Create a Solo Rift and invite 3 player in the end, then you can join 3 games in exchange
This facilitates faster farming. Faster blood shards. Faster stuff.
EASY PEASY! 1. Create a game on a difficulty of your choice.
2. Clear that rift almost to the end.
3. Post in the community chat what % you are at (can be found by hover over the rift progress bar).
4. Invite people, or accept party invite requests.
5. Get another rift made for you to clear, without using keystones.
ALTERNATIVELY: 1. Sit in the channel.
2. Look for rift posts.
3. Request an invite to the game.
4. Kill the boss without clearing any trash (get your bloodshards and souls fast).
5. Finish the quest, and open a new rift for the creator.
6. Continue on to the next rift in a few seconds!
As you can see, doesn't mention anything about saying how many spots there are. The original rules even assume a solo player. That's still usually how I do them, but only 90% of the time. It does however, say very clearly, as the VERY FIRST SENTENCE: *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift.
So thanks for the useful information from this post. In my future rifts, I will never be mentioning the number of slots, and I will generally just use the more newly-popularized "T3 100%, I choose who opens".
You'll notice Sigma, this is typing even more. But maybe I'll see a name I recognize as a pay dodger and just put them on a perma-pay list. : )
P.S. I also think they should change it to where a certain % of the rift must be completed by a character to receive rewards (At least blood-shards if nothing else). I think 15% would be a pretty good %.
Yep same here. I understand why some people like this, because it is so easy shards and easy legs with no work and little time, but is this really how people wanna play? Sitting in menu or opening 1 rift here and there and then do almost nothing? But i think this is also harming seasons
Some people, sometimes, yes. Pretty sure the community wouldn't exist or grow if people 'didn't really want to play like this'. That much should be obvious.
The rules (To explain it a bit more): *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift. Turn off "quick join" in your options menu (under the social panel) This community will only work if you make your own games too. So when you don't feel like clearing full levels, join some games. When you want to get some free rifts, make some.
Create a Solo Rift and invite 3 player in the end, then you can join 3 games in exchange
This facilitates faster farming. Faster blood shards. Faster stuff.
EASY PEASY! 1. Create a game on a difficulty of your choice.
2. Clear that rift almost to the end.
3. Post in the community chat what % you are at (can be found by hover over the rift progress bar).
4. Invite people, or accept party invite requests.
5. Get another rift made for you to clear, without using keystones.
ALTERNATIVELY: 1. Sit in the channel.
2. Look for rift posts.
3. Request an invite to the game.
4. Kill the boss without clearing any trash (get your bloodshards and souls fast).
5. Finish the quest, and open a new rift for the creator.
6. Continue on to the next rift in a few seconds!
Nothing in those rules suggests that the RiF community exists to provide anyone with 1500 shards at the cost of zero keystones, though. In fact, the rules you posted suggest that either you open a rift, clear it and then invite people (in which case you pay for it), or you mooch a rift and then repay the creator with a new rift.
Yes but then this gives information to people trying to game the system and get free rifts, and I consider it a privilege to cost them rift keys.
Actually that is the whole point of RiF when you are looking for openers, you are meant to say how many spots you have free, where you are (Boss or %clear) and High Middle or Low Paragon opening.
T5 + 2 Low para opens (21 chars)
T5 + 2 Last in opens (20 chars
One Character, Less than 1/10th of a second, also pressing up and enter is hard work.
Actually, no sir. Here's the original post: (Formatting original)
The rules (To explain it a bit more): *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift. Turn off "quick join" in your options menu (under the social panel) This community will only work if you make your own games too. So when you don't feel like clearing full levels, join some games. When you want to get some free rifts, make some.
Create a Solo Rift and invite 3 player in the end, then you can join 3 games in exchange
This facilitates faster farming. Faster blood shards. Faster stuff.
EASY PEASY! 1. Create a game on a difficulty of your choice.
2. Clear that rift almost to the end.
3. Post in the community chat what % you are at (can be found by hover over the rift progress bar).
4. Invite people, or accept party invite requests.
5. Get another rift made for you to clear, without using keystones.
ALTERNATIVELY: 1. Sit in the channel.
2. Look for rift posts.
3. Request an invite to the game.
4. Kill the boss without clearing any trash (get your bloodshards and souls fast).
5. Finish the quest, and open a new rift for the creator.
6. Continue on to the next rift in a few seconds!
As you can see, doesn't mention anything about saying how many spots there are. The original rules even assume a solo player. That's still usually how I do them, but only 90% of the time. It does however, say very clearly, as the VERY FIRST SENTENCE: *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift.
So thanks for the useful information from this post. In my future rifts, I will never be mentioning the number of slots, and I will generally just use the more newly-popularized "T3 100%, I choose who opens".
You'll notice Sigma, this is typing even more. But maybe I'll see a name I recognize as a pay dodger and just put them on a perma-pay list. : )
P.S. I also think they should change it to where a certain % of the rift must be completed by a character to receive rewards (At least blood-shards if nothing else). I think 15% would be a pretty good %.
These are the rules on EU side, just FYI: As you can see, the first rule is "advertise how many spots are free".
Rules:
-Runners must advertise how many spots are free.
-Wait untill the party is full before killing boss.
-Don't join with less than 5 keys.
-Don't leave before or after boss if you have to open.
-Wait untill everyone is at the boss before killing.
-Runners don't have to open.
-Leave when a new rift is open.
-Don't use the chat to name and shame.
-Report abusers to one officer, not all of them.
-Disable QuickJoin
So there's that.
In any case, people seem to think that there's something wrong with being a "leecher", and I can only assume that's because they get the wrong idea about what is happening here. This is not a "come together and do rifts, fuck people over by not paying for them and get free lewts"-kind of thing. Let's say that you have a solo-T6 runner. He only needs one person to open a new rift, but can invite three people. Two people *are going to get a free leeched rift*. That's just how it works.
If you are an efficient player, you want to max out your chance of not having to open the rift so you can keep going on for longer without having to refill your key supply. If I'm paragon level 465, I'll go for lowest. Sure, there's a chance a pair of 500's will join and it means I will have to open, and of course I do - but if I can get 50 rifts and only open 10 of them instead of the 16-17 I'd otherwise have to, that's just "clever" usage of this, and using the extra time I've spent on the game for my own advantage. What's wrong with that? Everyone walks away happy in the end.
Frankly, I'm just amazed people have the time to "screen" which ones they do. IMO they're probably sending the invite request before the "screening" to ensure they get invited, then deciding whether or not to join based on the rules.
Seems like a good argument for "Block Communication" for anyone who sends a request then rejects an invite from me, as they could just be screening, which I consider to be an unacceptable way of gaming the system.
Also, why in the world does the EU model have the RULE that you should announce how many spots are open? To make it harder for people without 3 spots to get an opener? IMO your reward is the speed at which you get legs and blood shards, you shouldn't have the added advantage of reducing your likelihood of paying for it. This thread has done nothing but make me much more resolved to ensure I marginalize anyone's attempts at such, and I will spread the good word.
To clarify, I have no problem with leechers. Leech all day if you want. Just don't expect me to like the idea that you're making it less likely that you will have to pay your fair share. Ooh, just thought of a nice rule to use: "T3 100%, 3 spots, low plvl opens (But with a twist!)"
"The twist is high plvl opens."
I dont wanna fight about this anymore because it feels useless.
But i just wanna know your opinion about this: What if blizzard fixes this because they feel this is wrong? How will you react to it? And this is mainly for people who do this stuff and defends this
Don't care. Ill just run T6 rifts on my own instead, got the gear I want really. Just trying for a perfect Mirrorball ATM.
Quote fromPaulAcid
Frankly, I'm just amazed people have the time to "screen" which ones they do. IMO they're probably sending the invite request before the "screening" to ensure they get invited, then deciding whether or not to join based on the rules.
Seems like a good argument for "Block Communication" for anyone who sends a request then rejects an invite from me, as they could just be screening, which I consider to be an unacceptable way of gaming the system.
Also, why in the world does the EU model have the RULE that you should announce how many spots are open? To make it harder for people without 3 spots to get an opener? IMO your reward is the speed at which you get legs and blood shards, you shouldn't have the added advantage of reducing your likelihood of paying for it. This thread has done nothing but make me much more resolved to ensure I marginalize anyone's attempts at such, and I will spread the good word.
To clarify, I have no problem with leechers. Leech all day if you want. Just don't expect me to like the idea that you're making it less likely that you will have to pay your fair share. Ooh, just thought of a nice rule to use: "T3 100%, 3 spots, low plvl opens (But with a twist!)"
"The twist is high plvl opens."
Don't know why they have the rule, but it's there.
As already said, some of us likes to gamble with the odds that we don't have to open, so we can get to go longer without spending our keys. Others don't care. Saying 1, 2, 3 spots, low high etc gives us a fighting chance for deciding what our odds of having to open is, so we can decide if we want to try or not. Downside is we don't get as many rifts as the guy who doesn't care. upside is we don't have to spend time farming as many key fragments instead. And your "twist rule" would get you thrown to the curb for false advertising pretty quickly.
You have to understand that this is a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours"-scenario. No one is losing anything on this. The runners gets their rifts, and everyone gets their blood shards. If you want to spend more time looking for runs and joining ones that has a low chance of you opening, that means you spend your time doing THAT - if you don't care, you run out faster, and then you instead spend your time doing bounties. Pick your poison, but nobody loses. What you deem as the "reward" (fast blood shards/legs) is something everyone gets regardless of the situation. If "low opens" is called and people at 200-300 Plvl keeps joining them, then they obviously do not care for their fragments, and me joining at +450 is what they expect. If I join a "high opens" because it's a slow day or I feel like throwing away a few fragments, I expect Ill get to open.
I dont wanna fight about this anymore because it feels useless.
But i just wanna know your opinion about this: What if blizzard fixes this because they feel this is wrong? How will you react to it? And this is mainly for people who do this stuff and defends this
Don't care. Ill just run T6 rifts on my own instead, got the gear I want really. Just trying for a perfect Mirrorball ATM.
And after every new season and those new legs they are providing to us?
What does it matter? Everyone would be in the same boat when it comes to new legends then. I can still collect about 6-700 shards per hour solo. It's probably half or a third of what I can currently get, but it has the added bonus of me finding random legs while slaughtering monsters. Random legs which, with a whole new set of season legs, might actually be usefull. The reason RIF is so good right now is because you're usually searching for a single piece, be it to make a new build (Mirrorball for magic missile for one), or to finish your set bonus off with the last piece you miss.
I think people aren't understanding each other here. MHM's video is getting hate not because he's joining Rift it Forward games, but that he is actively trying to avoid having to put any effort in whatsoever to get rewards, thus "leeching". This was said a few times before but everyone chose to just kind of argue about the semantics and morality of Rift it Forward.
On the other hand, it was also mentioned that a community that does this sort of thing is just asking to be exploited. However, I think that is a poor excuse to justify leeching behavior, which is what most people are up in arms about, imo. It only harms the community that in my opinion is doing a cool thing when you actively try to dodge responsibility of contributing.
Yea, I'm hardly the spokesman for the community, but I do use it frequently. (More often for free keys than free rift guardians) But IMO it does go against the spirit of the community to endorse this type of behavior. Yea you don't HAVE TO run rifts to participate, nor should you necessarily feel obliged, because it seems there are enough people out there that want to run rifts, that rarely have I seen a case of no games going on.. Also, you're supporting the process by funding the runners...
But this thread is different. This thread is saying "Hey, not only do you not need to participate as a runner, you don't even have to participate as someone who pays for the rifts! You can just ride along on the backs of people who run rifts, and the people who pay them".
It is a poor thing to do, and I will actively work against such low behavior. Would I ban someone from the channel for this if I had the power? No. But I sure wouldn't accept a request from them after noticing.
And shaggy yep. Problem is if everyone was thinking and doing like meathead, sitting in menu, waiting for people to clear rift, this community would not work. But there is people who wanna clear rifts and this makes it possible players to leech
You're acting as if people who clear rifts don't benefit from this, like they're doing someone a favor. Maybe you should go back and look at the rewards that clearing rifts provides.
I dont wanna fight about this anymore because it feels useless.
But i just wanna know your opinion about this: What if blizzard fixes this because they feel this is wrong? How will you react to it? And this is mainly for people who do this stuff and defends this
I doubt Blizzard will 'fix' this, because there's nothing to fix. A bunch of people either run rifts or open them. The people running the rifts create games stating what kind of people they want to join those games. Those people then have the opportunity to join or not join. In all my RIF experience, I've never seen anyone complain about having to open. People know the rules. And those who don't are blocked, but the only rule is to open when you're supposed to. Plain and simple.
Frankly, I'm just amazed people have the time to "screen" which ones they do. IMO they're probably sending the invite request before the "screening" to ensure they get invited, then deciding whether or not to join based on the rules.
Seems like a good argument for "Block Communication" for anyone who sends a request then rejects an invite from me, as they could just be screening, which I consider to be an unacceptable way of gaming the system.
Also, why in the world does the EU model have the RULE that you should announce how many spots are open? To make it harder for people without 3 spots to get an opener? IMO your reward is the speed at which you get legs and blood shards, you shouldn't have the added advantage of reducing your likelihood of paying for it. This thread has done nothing but make me much more resolved to ensure I marginalize anyone's attempts at such, and I will spread the good word.
To clarify, I have no problem with leechers. Leech all day if you want. Just don't expect me to like the idea that you're making it less likely that you will have to pay your fair share. Ooh, just thought of a nice rule to use: "T3 100%, 3 spots, low plvl opens (But with a twist!)"
"The twist is high plvl opens."
I mentioned in the video (if you watched it) that requesting before screening is bad manners.
Announcing how many spots you have is a good rule IMO. Yes someone 3 manning T1 will have a harder time finding an opener than someone 3 manning T6, which will fill up instantly. What's your point?
As for that nice 'rule' you thought of, too bad it's AGAINST the community rules, unless you state it up front. So, good luck making those games. You'll get blocked a lot more than 'leechers'.
I think people aren't understanding each other here. MHM's video is getting hate not because he's joining Rift it Forward games, but that he is actively trying to avoid having to put any effort in whatsoever to get rewards, thus "leeching". This was said a few times before but everyone chose to just kind of argue about the semantics and morality of Rift it Forward.
On the other hand, it was also mentioned that a community that does this sort of thing is just asking to be exploited. However, I think that is a poor excuse to justify leeching behavior, which is what most people are up in arms about, imo. It only harms the community that in my opinion is doing a cool thing when you actively try to dodge responsibility of contributing.
Yup, I'm spending MORE time cherry picking which games to join, which is actually less efficient than joining all games and doing bounties the other times. You can argue the morality of RIF all you want. I follow the rules that exist. The rest is just jealous players.
Thumbs up for this. I know i dont agree with RiF idea, but this is something i have been complaining all the time. People who are abusing this community and leeching. And i was using meathead as example, because he was doing it just inbredpsychosis explained here.
'I don't agree with the RIF idea'.
'This is something I've been complaining about'.
If you don't agree with the RIF idea, why are you even posting here? Maybe you should start your own thread about RIF being a horrible community and how it should be shut down. At least stick to your story...
Yea, I'm hardly the spokesman for the community, but I do use it frequently. (More often for free keys than free rift guardians) But IMO it does go against the spirit of the community to endorse this type of behavior. Yea you don't HAVE TO run rifts to participate, nor should you necessarily feel obliged, because it seems there are enough people out there that want to run rifts, that rarely have I seen a case of no games going on.. Also, you're supporting the process by funding the runners...
But this thread is different. This thread is saying "Hey, not only do you not need to participate as a runner, you don't even have to participate as someone who pays for the rifts! You can just ride along on the backs of people who run rifts, and the people who pay them".
It is a poor thing to do, and I will actively work against such low behavior. Would I ban someone from the channel for this if I had the power? No. But I sure wouldn't accept a request from them after noticing.
And yet this guy is making 24 min video to youtube and telling people how to do this.
Once again, you seem to think that people who run rifts are doing others a favor in some way, completely negating the fact that those people get 100% FREE RIFTS 100% of the time. Maybe you should review your understanding of how the community functions.
Once again, you seem to think that people who run rifts are doing others a favor in some way, completely negating the fact that those people get 100% FREE RIFTS 100% of the time. Maybe you should review your understanding of how the community functions.
I believe the people that run rifts and the people that pay for rifts are doing each other a favor. You're fortunate sometimes and don't have to open. To actively avoid paying means you are trying to opt-out (as much as possible) to the system, while still benefiting. Your behavior is a negative to the system, you are making everyone else more likely to have to pay by only joining games where you have a low likelihood of paying. You are screwing the leechers, not the runners. Your behavior is still not admirable, and your continued arguing for it or lack of recognizing it for undesired behavior it simply shows your lack of appreciation for fair play, or to use the current buzz-word description, you are acting "entitled".
Moochers happen everywhere. That's life. You're promoting mooching. It's a bit of a stretch to call it "shameful" since it's only a video game, but it reflects poor ethics.
Yea, my guess is they'll put something in prior to tiered rifts that prevent the farming of greater rift tokens through RiF. Whether that change will remove RiF community altogether, I dunno.
I believe the people that run rifts and the people that pay for rifts are doing each other a favor. You're fortunate sometimes and don't have to open. To actively avoid paying means you are trying to opt-out (as much as possible) to the system, while still benefiting. Your behavior is a negative to the system, you are making everyone else more likely to have to pay by only joining games where you have a low likelihood of paying. You are screwing the leechers, not the runners. Your behavior is still not admirable, and your continued arguing for it or lack of recognizing it for undesired behavior it simply shows your lack of appreciation for fair play, or to use the current buzz-word description, you are acting "entitled".
Moochers happen everywhere. That's life. You're promoting mooching. It's a bit of a stretch to call it "shameful" since it's only a video game, but it reflects poor ethics.
There's no such thing as 'fair play'. Everyone wants to have a maximum advantage for minimal effort in life, a la human nature. I don't believe I'm screwing anyone. I don't make the games. I join the games and follow the rules made by the creators. Hard concept to grasp for some people, I know.
You also forget that opening rifts costs keys. Keys you need to farm. It also takes time to clear those rifts. Time that they could use doing same thing you are doing. Sitting in menu and trying to join other people games without spending those keys.
Why shouldn't i post in this topic? So what if i dont agree with RiF idea, so what if i complain. There is always two sides and i am on the other side. You like it or you dont like it. And ofc those openers dont complain, because they are thinking they can get free games too, and sure they will get some games free, but you are not doing it like they are, you are maximising your chances NOT TO OPEN those rifts.
I was asking:What if blizzard fixes this because they feel this is wrong? Not "What will you do WHEN blizzard fixes this"
If you're going to be clearing 7-10 rifts/hour, opening the initial one by yourself is hardly 'costly'.
What if Blizz destroys the RIF community? It won't matter. Most of my time is spent doing 3-4 man clan T6 rifts. I usually only RIF when I'm drinking my morning coffee or clean out my stash. It'll affect casual players negatively a lot more.
The stupidity in this thread has reached absurd levels.
Kiekura, you are embarassing yourself with your cringing whine on over 4 pages. Go play the game or whine on the official forums about how "people should not be able to join other peoples games and kill the rift guardian and get free shards and this ruins my game whawhawhaaaaa blizzard do something".
Rift it Forward is great for both the runners and the openers. Yes, people can use it to gain more with giving less, but we are humans, we are greedy, what did you expect and at the end of the day why do you care about how other people play. Don't be so pathetic.
I dont really care if i am embarrassing myself and i play the game almost every day just so you know. And this will be bigger problem when ladders and tiered rifts come because then it is about competion and RiF gives way too big advantage over people who wanna play game "normaly"
Newsflash - players who play more will have an advantage over players who play less, regardless of whether it's RIF or anything else. I predict you will whine even more when Seasons come out and the game becomes more competitive, because 'wah wah it's not fair that someone could possibly have more than meeee'.
And as DvMG pointed out, it's more efficient to actually run the rifts yourself. Despite me explaining this over and over in the video, selective hearing still seems to win.
There's no such thing as 'fair play'. Everyone wants to have a maximum advantage for minimal effort in life, a la human nature. I don't believe I'm screwing anyone. I don't make the games. I join the games and follow the rules made by the creators. Hard concept to grasp for some people, I know.
If you're playing solo, sure.
If you're joining a community and playing with others then OF COURSE there's such thing as being an upstanding community member and kicking in your fair share.
While there is no truly fair way to make everyone pay 25% of the costs of opening rifts the community clearly doesn't exist so that some people get infinite rifts at zero cost. You fail to understand that distinction. Continuing to argue that RiF exists so that you can get everything at zero costs underlines your fundamental narcissism and your INABILITY to be a valuable community member.
All you are accomplishing is forcing OTHER community members to do bounties more frequently to fuel your greed. Grats. That totally sounds like someone I'd want running in my games.
In summary: People are not very selfless and will seek to advance themselves over others. This is a negative to any community. This also exists in the RiF community. Some people like to wallow in their selfish behavior and promote it. Arguing arguing arguing... and /thread.
I like to skip threads, make assumptions and post threads full of insults.
Whether RiF is a good idea is really just a small offshoot of this discussion. It's mostly been about whether it's good or bad to be avoiding paying for rifts while using it. (and calling it "optimization") : P
If you're joining a community and playing with others then OF COURSE there's such thing as being an upstanding community member and kicking in your fair share.
While there is no truly fair way to make everyone pay 25% of the costs of opening rifts the community clearly doesn't exist so that some people get infinite rifts at zero cost. You fail to understand that distinction. Continuing to argue that RiF exists so that you can get everything at zero costs underlines your fundamental narcissism and your INABILITY to be a valuable community member.
All you are accomplishing is forcing OTHER community members to do bounties more frequently to fuel your greed. Grats. That totally sounds like someone I'd want running in my games. The ONLY thing in the community is observing the rules. I follow the rules. If I was promoting scamming or leaving games when you're supposed to open, sure, but I don't.
As for being a 'valuable community member', I do believe the runners who SPECIFICALLY create 'lowest opens' games appreciate someone who can down an RG in 1/10 the time of a <p100 rare geared player trying to survive a T6 battle. Think about it.
Unless you can come up with a fair way of opening rifts that guarantees that each community member gets to open the same amount of rifts, people will always be unhappy.
Here, let me shed some genuine tears because other people had to do more bounties!!! Or actually I won't, because they knew the rules when they joined the community. They chose to take part in it knowing that they would have to open rifts. I am a high paragon level and I join lowest rifts, and usually don't have to open. But when I have to, I'll do so and always say a thank you to the runner as well. Since I am left with more gemstones, I also join games that ask +1 and open. Eventually if everyone tries to min-max, the playing field evens out. This is known as communism. It doesn't work.
[quote=Hikashuri;/members/183533-hikashuri]
I like to skip threads, make assumptions and post threads full of insults.
Whether RiF is a good idea is really just a small offshoot of this discussion. It's mostly been about whether it's good or bad to be avoiding paying for rifts while using it. (and calling it "optimization") : P
Call it what you will, but I didn't know the morality police showed up. Plain and simple:
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
But I do think we need to get this system fixed up.
Getting shards/gear should be obtained by beating and being apart of the WHOLE rift. That's just me but whatever. I am not a streamer/Youtuber.
Actually, no sir. Here's the original post: (Formatting original)
As you can see, doesn't mention anything about saying how many spots there are. The original rules even assume a solo player. That's still usually how I do them, but only 90% of the time. It does however, say very clearly, as the VERY FIRST SENTENCE: *Always be prepared to open a rift for the runner. Do not enter a game if you cannot open a rift.
So thanks for the useful information from this post. In my future rifts, I will never be mentioning the number of slots, and I will generally just use the more newly-popularized "T3 100%, I choose who opens".
You'll notice Sigma, this is typing even more. But maybe I'll see a name I recognize as a pay dodger and just put them on a perma-pay list. : )
P.S. I also think they should change it to where a certain % of the rift must be completed by a character to receive rewards (At least blood-shards if nothing else). I think 15% would be a pretty good %.
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Rules:
-Runners must advertise how many spots are free.
-Wait untill the party is full before killing boss.
-Don't join with less than 5 keys.
-Don't leave before or after boss if you have to open.
-Wait untill everyone is at the boss before killing.
-Runners don't have to open.
-Leave when a new rift is open.
-Don't use the chat to name and shame.
-Report abusers to one officer, not all of them.
-Disable QuickJoin
So there's that.
In any case, people seem to think that there's something wrong with being a "leecher", and I can only assume that's because they get the wrong idea about what is happening here. This is not a "come together and do rifts, fuck people over by not paying for them and get free lewts"-kind of thing. Let's say that you have a solo-T6 runner. He only needs one person to open a new rift, but can invite three people. Two people *are going to get a free leeched rift*. That's just how it works.
If you are an efficient player, you want to max out your chance of not having to open the rift so you can keep going on for longer without having to refill your key supply. If I'm paragon level 465, I'll go for lowest. Sure, there's a chance a pair of 500's will join and it means I will have to open, and of course I do - but if I can get 50 rifts and only open 10 of them instead of the 16-17 I'd otherwise have to, that's just "clever" usage of this, and using the extra time I've spent on the game for my own advantage. What's wrong with that? Everyone walks away happy in the end.
Seems like a good argument for "Block Communication" for anyone who sends a request then rejects an invite from me, as they could just be screening, which I consider to be an unacceptable way of gaming the system.
Also, why in the world does the EU model have the RULE that you should announce how many spots are open? To make it harder for people without 3 spots to get an opener? IMO your reward is the speed at which you get legs and blood shards, you shouldn't have the added advantage of reducing your likelihood of paying for it. This thread has done nothing but make me much more resolved to ensure I marginalize anyone's attempts at such, and I will spread the good word.
To clarify, I have no problem with leechers. Leech all day if you want. Just don't expect me to like the idea that you're making it less likely that you will have to pay your fair share. Ooh, just thought of a nice rule to use: "T3 100%, 3 spots, low plvl opens (But with a twist!)"
"The twist is high plvl opens."
Don't know why they have the rule, but it's there.
As already said, some of us likes to gamble with the odds that we don't have to open, so we can get to go longer without spending our keys. Others don't care. Saying 1, 2, 3 spots, low high etc gives us a fighting chance for deciding what our odds of having to open is, so we can decide if we want to try or not. Downside is we don't get as many rifts as the guy who doesn't care. upside is we don't have to spend time farming as many key fragments instead. And your "twist rule" would get you thrown to the curb for false advertising pretty quickly.
You have to understand that this is a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours"-scenario. No one is losing anything on this. The runners gets their rifts, and everyone gets their blood shards. If you want to spend more time looking for runs and joining ones that has a low chance of you opening, that means you spend your time doing THAT - if you don't care, you run out faster, and then you instead spend your time doing bounties. Pick your poison, but nobody loses. What you deem as the "reward" (fast blood shards/legs) is something everyone gets regardless of the situation. If "low opens" is called and people at 200-300 Plvl keeps joining them, then they obviously do not care for their fragments, and me joining at +450 is what they expect. If I join a "high opens" because it's a slow day or I feel like throwing away a few fragments, I expect Ill get to open.
On the other hand, it was also mentioned that a community that does this sort of thing is just asking to be exploited. However, I think that is a poor excuse to justify leeching behavior, which is what most people are up in arms about, imo. It only harms the community that in my opinion is doing a cool thing when you actively try to dodge responsibility of contributing.
But this thread is different. This thread is saying "Hey, not only do you not need to participate as a runner, you don't even have to participate as someone who pays for the rifts! You can just ride along on the backs of people who run rifts, and the people who pay them".
It is a poor thing to do, and I will actively work against such low behavior. Would I ban someone from the channel for this if I had the power? No. But I sure wouldn't accept a request from them after noticing.
I doubt Blizzard will 'fix' this, because there's nothing to fix. A bunch of people either run rifts or open them. The people running the rifts create games stating what kind of people they want to join those games. Those people then have the opportunity to join or not join. In all my RIF experience, I've never seen anyone complain about having to open. People know the rules. And those who don't are blocked, but the only rule is to open when you're supposed to. Plain and simple.
I mentioned in the video (if you watched it) that requesting before screening is bad manners.
Announcing how many spots you have is a good rule IMO. Yes someone 3 manning T1 will have a harder time finding an opener than someone 3 manning T6, which will fill up instantly. What's your point?
As for that nice 'rule' you thought of, too bad it's AGAINST the community rules, unless you state it up front. So, good luck making those games. You'll get blocked a lot more than 'leechers'.
Yup, I'm spending MORE time cherry picking which games to join, which is actually less efficient than joining all games and doing bounties the other times. You can argue the morality of RIF all you want. I follow the rules that exist. The rest is just jealous players.
'I don't agree with the RIF idea'.
'This is something I've been complaining about'.
If you don't agree with the RIF idea, why are you even posting here? Maybe you should start your own thread about RIF being a horrible community and how it should be shut down. At least stick to your story...
Once again, you seem to think that people who run rifts are doing others a favor in some way, completely negating the fact that those people get 100% FREE RIFTS 100% of the time. Maybe you should review your understanding of how the community functions.
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I believe the people that run rifts and the people that pay for rifts are doing each other a favor. You're fortunate sometimes and don't have to open. To actively avoid paying means you are trying to opt-out (as much as possible) to the system, while still benefiting. Your behavior is a negative to the system, you are making everyone else more likely to have to pay by only joining games where you have a low likelihood of paying. You are screwing the leechers, not the runners. Your behavior is still not admirable, and your continued arguing for it or lack of recognizing it for undesired behavior it simply shows your lack of appreciation for fair play, or to use the current buzz-word description, you are acting "entitled".
Moochers happen everywhere. That's life. You're promoting mooching. It's a bit of a stretch to call it "shameful" since it's only a video game, but it reflects poor ethics.
If you're going to be clearing 7-10 rifts/hour, opening the initial one by yourself is hardly 'costly'.
What if Blizz destroys the RIF community? It won't matter. Most of my time is spent doing 3-4 man clan T6 rifts. I usually only RIF when I'm drinking my morning coffee or clean out my stash. It'll affect casual players negatively a lot more.
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And as DvMG pointed out, it's more efficient to actually run the rifts yourself. Despite me explaining this over and over in the video, selective hearing still seems to win.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
If you're joining a community and playing with others then OF COURSE there's such thing as being an upstanding community member and kicking in your fair share.
While there is no truly fair way to make everyone pay 25% of the costs of opening rifts the community clearly doesn't exist so that some people get infinite rifts at zero cost. You fail to understand that distinction. Continuing to argue that RiF exists so that you can get everything at zero costs underlines your fundamental narcissism and your INABILITY to be a valuable community member.
All you are accomplishing is forcing OTHER community members to do bounties more frequently to fuel your greed. Grats. That totally sounds like someone I'd want running in my games.
There's a community.
This community has rules.
Follow the rules.
The rest is just someone's personal opinion.
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