I share your concerns. I'm overall worried about the whole endgame scenario now. I dont think they realize how many people actually pvp'd in diablo 2. I'm worried endgame consists of magic finding and selling items on ah. That will only hold some of us for awhile.
Personally I seek a challenge when I play a video game. I went through progressions in d2 in my day, and I'll do the same here. I lvled up softcore and geared him until It just wasnt that much fun magic finding for whole days to further 1 shot mobs. So I turned to hardcore. That was fun for awhile too until I figured it out and did the same. Then I turn to lvling up the worst possible spec I can in hardcore. That gets old too.
Then you turn to pvp, which is always different. This is where the majority of my gameplay revolved. Its why I rerolled toon after toon for 1 vitality point, and why I continued to farm and lvl up for those next 5 points.
Ill say the pvp sounds a bit better then what we had in d2, but that is no excuse. None. This is almost 12 years later. Simply giving us a place to pvp besides act 1 is not exactly leaps and bounds in the right direction for a viable endgame. We, as gamers, hunt a challenge. Moving up a ladder no matter how imbalanced, is progression.
To me simply gearing up to kill some easy to kill pve monsters 1 second faster isnt progression. It would be different if the game was hard. But diablo is a mass monster murder game where we will be farming the hardest bosses in the game ad nauseum over and over and over. So there is no real challenge pve wise outside of hardcore.
I do think tdm works pretty well though. I just wish it was semi ranked or something or at least had a win/loss ratio. Last man standing in instagib doesnt sound too appealing to me. tdm sounds more like a controlled act 1. I just want more fleshing out of the stats, etc.
I hear people saying "D2 wasn't a PvP game" "D2 didn't have rankings"
I keep responding to the morons that D2 WAS a PvP game or atleast PvP was a big part it was A) Grind gear PvP
AND YEAH EXACTLY D2 = 12 YEARS OLD
just cus a 12 year old game didn't have something doesn't mean that thing isn't an imporvment
They need to bring back Last Man Standing, and some sort of Ranking system to keep people who play the game for it's endgame PvP, actually playing further down the line. I've said this like 9 times over the past two days in posts, but you can make a game competitive without turning it into an E-Sport. Achievements don't matter much to most people who have played a game competitively.
They need to bring back Last Man Standing, and some sort of Ranking system to keep people who play the game for it's endgame PvP, actually playing further down the line. I've said this like 9 times over the past two days in posts, but you can make a game competitive without turning it into an E-Sport. Achievements don't matter much to most people who have played a game competitively.
They need to bring back Last Man Standing, and some sort of Ranking system to keep people who play the game for it's endgame PvP, actually playing further down the line. I've said this like 9 times over the past two days in posts, but you can make a game competitive without turning it into an E-Sport. Achievements don't matter much to most people who have played a game competitively.
I 100% agree
I agree as well. This is like making capcom making Street fighter 5 and going well fuck balance because we want it more appealing to scrubs so tournament play means nothing. Way to alienate your community Blizzard.
They need to bring back Last Man Standing, and some sort of Ranking system to keep people who play the game for it's endgame PvP, actually playing further down the line. I've said this like 9 times over the past two days in posts, but you can make a game competitive without turning it into an E-Sport. Achievements don't matter much to most people who have played a game competitively.
I 100% agree
I agree as well. This is like making capcom making Street fighter 5 and going well fuck balance because we want it more appealing to scrubs so tournament play means nothing. Way to alienate your community Blizzard.
I don't know that the majority of the community care about pvp IMO, however, I do think most if not all the community that has played D2 did infact take there chances in pvp but it wasn't game changing like "OMG WE HAVE TO PVP" In my experiences with D2(I've played since it came out basically) dueling games never had a full 8 players on occasion it did but generally it did not, on the other hand, cow games always had 8 players, i would constantly have trouble getting into a cow game. Again this is in my own experiences.
My pro pvp arguments, getting tired of typing them, but hopefully they will be worth it.
D3 PvP, what I like? I like the new arena system, because it takes some of the difficulty out of organizing GM (Good mannered) PvP. In D2 most players just joined random dueling games and had fun, and then players starting taking PvP more seriously, and it eventually turned into essential an e-sport, a set of rules that were put in place for balance, and an entire communities who would have Team Duels every night in a respectable, fun, and enjoyable manor. I think the arena system allows more people to enjoy this experience.
I am very concerned about the PvP aspect of D3. Now I realize that D3 is focused on PvE, but I don't think you should eliminate the PvP aspect of D3. I think neglecting PvP has a crippling effect on it (I am not talking about world pk). I am talking about Jay Wilsons naive ignorance towards PvP and the reveal of the new Team Deathmatch mechanic.
Improving PvP caters to a much wider audience, and provides an endless amount of end game content. When I think of the audience for D3, I am thinking about WoW, FPS, SC2, and pretty much any MMO or Online RPG game that is successful has solid competitive game play, and will EXPECT that from D3.
Now I am not saying that they should spend all their time balancing PvP for D3, I am saying that Blizzard should support it to were it can be enjoyable, instead of crippling it with the excuse that D3 is for PvE. I know D3 isn't an E-sport, but don't prohibit those who turn it into one.
This may be ignored or flamed for now, but I think the mood will change a few months after launch when more people shift towards PvP and will want more out of the game, but I wish it wouldn't have to wait until then.
/edit Forgive me for the bad structure and grammatical errors, (12:21 AM) and a little side tracked.
I am not talking about Balance, I am not talking about the uniqueness of builds, I am talking about simpler things, the fundamentals. With the current D3 plan PvPers are limited to arenas (okay fine, this is understandable). Then turning "tradition last man standing" PvP into some type of team deathmatch idea instead of letting the players openly decide on how they want to PvP in arenas.
PvP is not some thing that you can't half a$$ and say "well, they want pvp they can team death match in arena", you can't take control of it and then not do anything, either leave it in the hands of us, or do it right.
Before somebody comes in and says this isn't an esport, we don't expect them to turn it into one, but we want to be able to turn it into one OURSELVES.
In D2 we had world PvP, so we could do anything we wanted, including 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, FFA, 2v8. We could organize Good manered (Traditional last mand standing games), but there was also random duel games.
We could structure say SvS, TvT, BvB ect tournaments, competitions.
With this new system they limit us to 1v1-3v3 and the only game type is Team deathmatch.
What we want: more options,
- both last mand standing and team deathmatch.
- the ability to have some basic PvP tracking statistics (wether private or public)
- CUSTOM PvP LOBBIES/Matchmaking (EI the ability to directly duel a certain person or a certain party)
- and finally some basic balance within the game, we aren't asking for perfection.
And last point: D3 PvP DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME, AT IT IS 100% optional just like the real money auction house.
I've made some fairly lengthy posts in other thread, but it really comes down to a few very simple points:
1. Give us options. Team Death Match is simply not going to cut it, devs. We need competition. We need risk. We need rewards. We need goals to obtain. You really should know this, and I believe you do. It should not be THAT difficult to design a respectable PvP system that coincides with PvE. Make us a great well-rounded game that both PvP and PvErs can enjoy. We have faith in you.
2. Separate PvE from PvP. This is a key point, and must be done. There really is no valid argument (in my view) against separating PvP and PvE abilities. Have a designated design team for PvE, and one for PvP. That way balance changes don't have unintended consequences that pit "PvErs" against "PvPer's. We're all interested in the same thing. A great game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Since the other thread got closed because people we're being stupid i will just copy and paste what i wrote:
''Jay Wilson doesn't want D3 to be an esport, but honestly? If D3 will or not be one its not up for blizzard to decide.
I mean, i doubt there will be professional players like in sc2 with $200,000 tournaments, but pvp WILL be played competitively, IF there is a community to support it.
Take DOTA as an example, everytime a OP hero was released all the major leagues would put him under a banlist, in TF2 unbalanced items are banned from competitions, in D3 something like that may happen, with leagues banning OP skills, limiting the amount of legendaries, etc.''
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Diisfunk I agree about the whole PvP discussion and how it needs a change, but there's no reason why CherubDown deserves to be trashtalked. He's a very knowledgeable and respected member.
Developers don't have infinite time and PvP is a whole 'nother system that needs to be tweaked and balanced on an entirely different principle than PvE. Would you prefer Blizzard delay the release of the game for another year or two? I certainly wouldn't.
Developers don't have infinite time and PvP is a whole 'nother system that needs to be tweaked and balanced on an entirely different principle than PvE. Would you prefer Blizzard delay the release of the game for another year or two? I certainly wouldn't.
Developers don't have infinite time and PvP is a whole 'nother system that needs to be tweaked and balanced on an entirely different principle than PvE. Would you prefer Blizzard delay the release of the game for another year or two? I certainly wouldn't.
It's already been stated that they have a system design in place for the separation of PvP and PvE abilities.
It's also been stated that there is a match making system in place, albeit invisible due to some misguided prejudice against competitive PvP.
Honestly, what else does the "PvP strike team" have to do? You're basically just pulling dates out of your ass. Furthermore, everything doesn't have to be perfectly balanced at release. Actually, it never is with any game. There should be continuous development after release, or at the very release some promise of support rather than a fanatical "over my dead body" (direct quote about allowing PvP to dictate design decisions in D3 from Jay Wilson) view against competitive PvP. What we have now simply isn't going to cut it for anyone who enjoys competitive PvP.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I'd be willing to wait on Diablo 3's release for them to add more to the PvP side of the table.
As would I, but we need some promises. What I'm not willing to do is settle for the heaping pile that we have currently (system wise - not gameplay wise, obviously).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I hear people saying "D2 wasn't a PvP game" "D2 didn't have rankings"
I keep responding to the morons that D2 WAS a PvP game or atleast PvP was a big part it was A) Grind gear PvP
AND YEAH EXACTLY D2 = 12 YEARS OLD
just cus a 12 year old game didn't have something doesn't mean that thing isn't an imporvment
I personally hate tdm too casual for me
D3 PvP, what I like? I like the new arena system, because it takes some of the difficulty out of organizing GM (Good mannered) PvP. In D2 most players just joined random dueling games and had fun, and then players starting taking PvP more seriously, and it eventually turned into essential an e-sport, a set of rules that were put in place for balance, and an entire communities who would have Team Duels every night in a respectable, fun, and enjoyable manor. I think the arena system allows more people to enjoy this experience.
I am very concerned about the PvP aspect of D3. Now I realize that D3 is focused on PvE, but I don't think you should eliminate the PvP aspect of D3. I think neglecting PvP has a crippling effect on it (I am not talking about world pk). I am talking about Jay Wilsons naive ignorance towards PvP and the reveal of the new Team Deathmatch mechanic.
Improving PvP caters to a much wider audience, and provides an endless amount of end game content. When I think of the audience for D3, I am thinking about WoW, FPS, SC2, and pretty much any MMO or Online RPG game that is successful has solid competitive game play, and will EXPECT that from D3.
Now I am not saying that they should spend all their time balancing PvP for D3, I am saying that Blizzard should support it to were it can be enjoyable, instead of crippling it with the excuse that D3 is for PvE. I know D3 isn't an E-sport, but don't prohibit those who turn it into one.
This may be ignored or flamed for now, but I think the mood will change a few months after launch when more people shift towards PvP and will want more out of the game, but I wish it wouldn't have to wait until then.
/edit Forgive me for the bad structure and grammatical errors, (12:21 AM) and a little side tracked.
I am not talking about Balance, I am not talking about the uniqueness of builds, I am talking about simpler things, the fundamentals. With the current D3 plan PvPers are limited to arenas (okay fine, this is understandable). Then turning "tradition last man standing" PvP into some type of team deathmatch idea instead of letting the players openly decide on how they want to PvP in arenas.
PvP is not some thing that you can't half a$$ and say "well, they want pvp they can team death match in arena", you can't take control of it and then not do anything, either leave it in the hands of us, or do it right.
Before somebody comes in and says this isn't an esport, we don't expect them to turn it into one, but we want to be able to turn it into one OURSELVES.
In D2 we had world PvP, so we could do anything we wanted, including 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, FFA, 2v8. We could organize Good manered (Traditional last mand standing games), but there was also random duel games.
We could structure say SvS, TvT, BvB ect tournaments, competitions.
With this new system they limit us to 1v1-3v3 and the only game type is Team deathmatch.
What we want: more options,
- both last mand standing and team deathmatch.
- the ability to have some basic PvP tracking statistics (wether private or public)
- CUSTOM PvP LOBBIES/Matchmaking (EI the ability to directly duel a certain person or a certain party)
- and finally some basic balance within the game, we aren't asking for perfection.
And last point: D3 PvP DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME, AT IT IS 100% optional just like the real money auction house.
1. Give us options. Team Death Match is simply not going to cut it, devs. We need competition. We need risk. We need rewards. We need goals to obtain. You really should know this, and I believe you do. It should not be THAT difficult to design a respectable PvP system that coincides with PvE. Make us a great well-rounded game that both PvP and PvErs can enjoy. We have faith in you.
2. Separate PvE from PvP. This is a key point, and must be done. There really is no valid argument (in my view) against separating PvP and PvE abilities. Have a designated design team for PvE, and one for PvP. That way balance changes don't have unintended consequences that pit "PvErs" against "PvPer's. We're all interested in the same thing. A great game.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
''Jay Wilson doesn't want D3 to be an esport, but honestly? If D3 will or not be one its not up for blizzard to decide.
I mean, i doubt there will be professional players like in sc2 with $200,000 tournaments, but pvp WILL be played competitively, IF there is a community to support it.
Take DOTA as an example, everytime a OP hero was released all the major leagues would put him under a banlist, in TF2 unbalanced items are banned from competitions, in D3 something like that may happen, with leagues banning OP skills, limiting the amount of legendaries, etc.''
Jay Wilson addresses the first two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E452S_fJwA
And for the last one, the PvP data will be different than the PvE data, as mentioned at BlizzCon.
and he only said he would change stuns for pvp (not in depth again)
also I talked about endgame
and casual
It's already been stated that they have a system design in place for the separation of PvP and PvE abilities.
It's also been stated that there is a match making system in place, albeit invisible due to some misguided prejudice against competitive PvP.
Honestly, what else does the "PvP strike team" have to do? You're basically just pulling dates out of your ass. Furthermore, everything doesn't have to be perfectly balanced at release. Actually, it never is with any game. There should be continuous development after release, or at the very release some promise of support rather than a fanatical "over my dead body" (direct quote about allowing PvP to dictate design decisions in D3 from Jay Wilson) view against competitive PvP. What we have now simply isn't going to cut it for anyone who enjoys competitive PvP.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
As would I, but we need some promises. What I'm not willing to do is settle for the heaping pile that we have currently (system wise - not gameplay wise, obviously).
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.