On the topic of handling botting/hacking/etc. your latest post still does not clearly link the contents of the EULA/ToS to the legal article you believe was breached. The statement remains the same; you misinterpreted the agreement, and now expect compensation from Blizzard.
As for your argument against missing features, this would be treated as a separate breach. You could possibly have more of a case there, depending on where and how the guarantee of PvP features were published, and to what extent the content was guaranteed. If a legallly binding contract states that players would be able to interact with each other in a pvp environment... they have done that with brawling. Although it would not be what any of us anticipated.
Its funny you are still arguing with the wording on the EULA/TOS which i have clearly, bright as day, pointed out to you that these are prohibited. Which I am not fighting that point because you should know as well as I do that those 3rd party software are not allowed. Yet you still want to find justification on why Blizzard can get away with not upholding their own rules and regulations. The breach occurs everyday Blizzard allows these cheaters to continue to bot/cheat because if they dont bot they HUD if they HUD they probably bot. There isnt 1 user that just uses 1 or the other and they can hand you all the lies you want to hear but facts are facts and I am not going to give out the names of the people I have talked to on this that do use both daily without a ban since release of Diablo 3.
See I would give you the whole picture but then I would be handing over the whole case against Blizzard to allow them to try and pick it apart before going to court. Why would I do that, I am not an idiot, when they get served they can scramble to find a loophole I am not going to give them even more time to figure it out. OR they can confront the issues head on like a real company and fight the cheaters its not hard as in my original post I provided plenty of ways for them to catch people.
I know the posts are long and all but take some time actually read them and you might learn something. As far as PVP it was printed on the box they sold release date (which if I am not mistaken they took it off asap). They even had a setup at Blizzcon for people to try it out (Arena PVP) yet we have brawling yeah total bait and switch, false advertisement.
Edit #1:
One more thing about your "Breach of Contract" for PVP,
"A breach of contract occurs when one of the parties in the agreement fails to fulfill one or more of the specified terms and conditions. A violation can also be determined if some agreed work carried out is malfunctioning or sub-standard; or if one party has not carried out the agreed work. This is then placed in the hands of the law where a judge will determine if the contract has been breached and damages may be awarded to one of the parties."
I bolded the part where the PVP they released aka brawling is "sub-standard" to what was promised. Which can also be said about them making the game online only to prevent bots/hacks/cheaters that run rampant everyday. The work they said they would provide is by far sub-standard to how they treat their other games in regards to this.
So I agreed to them stopping botters/hackers/etc, and they did so by making the EULA/TOS. They breached their own contract.
That's fair enough if you don't want to publicly disclose all of your 'evidence' at this point. I'm simply stating truths based upon the 'evidence' you have provided so far. To repeat myself, yet again, Blizzard's failure/refusal to enforce penalties on users whom are deemed to have 'cheated' is not grounds for a lawsuit UNLESS it is explicitly stated that this service will be provided. Based upon the 'evidence' you have posted in this thread so far, such an explicit statement was not made, and thus there is no case on those grounds.
Again, regarding PvP. To determine if a breach has occurred, we first need to look at legally binding documents/materials which state and define those services/features which will be provided. PvP Arena is simply a name, and they can be changed, the real promise would simply have been of a PvP environment. If it can be proven using real evidence, that PvP environment is defined as x, y and z, and that element y has not yet been delivered, and that a reasonable timeframe has been exceeded, then and ONLY THEN, could any case be made against Blizzard.
That's fair enough if you don't want to publicly disclose all of your 'evidence' at this point. I'm simply stating truths based upon the 'evidence' you have provided so far. To repeat myself, yet again, Blizzard's failure/refusal to enforce penalties on users whom are deemed to have 'cheated' is not grounds for a lawsuit UNLESS it is explicitly stated that this service will be provided. Based upon the 'evidence' you have posted in this thread so far, such an explicit statement was not made, and thus there is no case on those grounds.
Again, regarding PvP. To determine if a breach has occurred, we first need to look at legally binding documents/materials which state and define those services/features which will be provided. PvP Arena is simply a name, and they can be changed, the real promise would simply have been of a PvP environment. If it can be proven using real evidence, that PvP environment is defined as x, y and z, and that element y has not yet been delivered, and that a reasonable timeframe has been exceeded, then and ONLY THEN, could any case be made against Blizzard.
You are the only one to have a legitimate conversation with and I appreciate that I really do, thanks for not trolling like others but we can go back and forth all day on how they didn't "explicitly state" that the service will be quote: "Provided". It was said that the reason for online only game is to prevent them, which has done zero to prevent them. So regardless if they explicitly stated "We will ban all users we find immediately" or posted things like the below posting over 3 years ago to make people think they are really doing something when its blatantly clear they do nothing.
First line tells the entire lie "Play nice; Play fair." It's one of Blizzard Entertainment's core values, and it's something we take very seriously. Then they continue on about how they are trying so hard to catch the botters. 3 years not a single mention about it since. Doesn't this seem fishy to you? No AH no care about cheaters because no money income....
Edit #1: What is considered "Reasonable" time frame for them to provide the X,Y,Z format of PVP that was offered at start? 1 year? 2 years? 50 years?
On the topic of handling botting/hacking/etc. your latest post still does not clearly link the contents of the EULA/ToS to the legal article you believe was breached. The statement remains the same; you misinterpreted the agreement, and now expect compensation from Blizzard.
As for your argument against missing features, this would be treated as a separate breach. You could possibly have more of a case there, depending on where and how the guarantee of PvP features were published, and to what extent the content was guaranteed. If a legallly binding contract states that players would be able to interact with each other in a pvp environment... they have done that with brawling. Although it would not be what any of us anticipated.
Edit #1:
One more thing about your "Breach of Contract" for PVP,
"A breach of contract occurs when one of the parties in the agreement fails to fulfill one or more of the specified terms and conditions. A violation can also be determined if some agreed work carried out is malfunctioning or sub-standard; or if one party has not carried out the agreed work. This is then placed in the hands of the law where a judge will determine if the contract has been breached and damages may be awarded to one of the parties."
I bolded the part where the PVP they released aka brawling is "sub-standard" to what was promised...
The work they said they would provide is by far sub-standard to how they treat their other games in regards to this.
I will agree with this section, but please note that context will still determine the validity of the statement "PvP is sub-standard" (as determined by the definition of the PvP feature/environment). Obviously, in terms of our expectations, PvP absolutely fell on its ass and failed to meet expectations, however expectations do not always equate to standards. Also, it is not that I disagree with your case as such, it's more a matter of whether I feel it can be proven or not.
This conversation has been fun for me, and I apologise if it seemed a little too heated at any point, as my intention was not to offend or anger anybody, but rather to point out flaws I saw in the posts provided.
RE: Comment #23 Edit #1:
That is not something I could answer in a legal context. For me as a player, the time liit has most definitely expired, even to the point where the majority of the player base has simply resigned themselves to the idea that PvP does not exist (in any true format) in Diablo 3 and/or RoS.
On the topic of handling botting/hacking/etc. your latest post still does not clearly link the contents of the EULA/ToS to the legal article you believe was breached. The statement remains the same; you misinterpreted the agreement, and now expect compensation from Blizzard.
As for your argument against missing features, this would be treated as a separate breach. You could possibly have more of a case there, depending on where and how the guarantee of PvP features were published, and to what extent the content was guaranteed. If a legallly binding contract states that players would be able to interact with each other in a pvp environment... they have done that with brawling. Although it would not be what any of us anticipated.
Edit #1:
One more thing about your "Breach of Contract" for PVP,
"A breach of contract occurs when one of the parties in the agreement fails to fulfill one or more of the specified terms and conditions. A violation can also be determined if some agreed work carried out is malfunctioning or sub-standard; or if one party has not carried out the agreed work. This is then placed in the hands of the law where a judge will determine if the contract has been breached and damages may be awarded to one of the parties."
I bolded the part where the PVP they released aka brawling is "sub-standard" to what was promised...
The work they said they would provide is by far sub-standard to how they treat their other games in regards to this.
I will agree with this section, but please note that context will still determine the validity of the statement "PvP is sub-standard" (as determined by the definition of the PvP feature/environment). Obviously, in terms of our expectations, PvP absolutely fell on its ass and failed to meet expectations, however expectations do not always equate to standards. Also, it is not that I disagree with your case as such, it's more a matter of whether I feel it can be proven or not.
This conversation has been fun for me, and I apologise if it seemed a little too heated at any point, as my intention was not to offend or anger anybody, but rather to point out flaws I saw in the posts provided.
RE: Comment #23 Edit #1:
That is not something I could answer in a legal context. For me as a player, the time liit has most definitely expired, even to the point where the majority of the player base has simply resigned themselves to the idea that PvP does not exist (in any true format) in Diablo 3 and/or RoS.
Yeah I totally seen that and I may come off arrogant (sorry) but I would have to say a standard for PVP is more than 1 area and 0 gear. Generally speaking when you talk about a game that is PVP you would assume something like LoL, Smite, Dota2, HoTS, Overwatch. All of these games meet the criteria for standard to PVP. Now I know you will say those are not ARPG's so Ill give you a few others, PoE (you knew it was coming =D ), Diablo 2 (yep you knew that one was coming too hehe), and others that I am to tired to think of but I would assume those would be considered the standards which I think you would agree brawling doesn't equate to 1/100th of that standard.
Giving up on the PVP is definitely something a lot of people have done, I for one wont give up the good fight. I just want a game that isnt so watered down that a 2 year old could play it especially on a game rated "M" for mature. However not to lose site of the OP, it is just pretty clear that they don't want to enforce their rules & regulations anymore due to 0 income. Like for example:
I rent an appartment and they make it very clear that they prohibit the use of smoking in the house and if caught I will be evicted due to it causing the property value to decline. Days go by even months and I break I cant handle it going outside anymore and I light up in the house. They find out and BAM evicted. Then Joe moves in they give him the same rules and regulations, but from day 1 Joe smokes in the house they find out and then do nothing since the monetary value incentive is no longer there they no longer care.
This is the same thing Blizzard is doing, "YEAH BAN THE BOTS WE HATE THEM! BANNED SOON! TM Posted 6/23/2013", o wait the AH is gone now and there is no more money to pay for people to read logs and ban people, o well let em cheat we cant get anymore money out of them.
holy shit... it's a GAME. take a step back, a deep breath and think about this for a moment. this is a game. comparing botters with murderers. trying to sue blizzard. there is no economy in this game, there is no esports (a simple leaderboards doesn't make it esports). it's a game and its main focus is "have fun". legally you have no chance, because botters have no influence on you, except the leaderboards, which has no rewards anyways. no money, no fame (blizzard doesn't even call out the winners...)
holy shit, man. why is it so hard to just play something else for you guys? If you want the fair competition, then play one of those thousands of games out there with a fair competition. Diablo was never about fair competition. As far as we know, leaderboards are simply a balancing tool for blizzard.
Blizzard isn't fighting botters because there is no reason to fight botters.
Edit #1 you obviously didnt read half the posts in here and the points brought up. Just to point you to one in particular that you are to incompentent to read heres the link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10319928
quote: "Play nice; Play fair." It's one of Blizzard Entertainment's core values, and it's something we take very seriously.
I put in bold the part that they obviously don't take seriously since I have 100s of people that have botted and cheated from start of their game and are STILL botting and cheating with 0 bans.
Try not to troll anymore people dont come out and post on forums that are displeased with the game. When game released there was 2000+ public games at any point in time. Yet now there is barely 30, and yet we still dont have the "number of players online" that Blizzard also promised in patch 1.07 if I am not mistaken. Please continue to try and stick up for a company that has done nothing but lie to you from the start.
Edit #1 I already have a petition with signatures you obviously didnt read any of the posts either, sorry it is to complicated for you I know. Go back to your troll cave now thanks.
I know you mean well man, but if you were actually serious you wouldn't go to a game forum, you would call a solicitor/lawyer and make an appointment to see if you actually had something you can go to court with? Why would you waste time coming to the forums with it?
Your grammar and punctuation are bad, so I am assuming you're not very well educated or very young.
My friends are in law and they read what you wrote and said: You're either the uber troll and this is just how you pass your time, or you're a moron who has no idea what they're doing.
I know you mean well man, but if you were actually serious you wouldn't go to a game forum, you would call a solicitor/lawyer and make an appointment to see if you actually had something you can go to court with? Why would you waste time coming to the forums with it?
Your grammar and punctuation are bad, so I am assuming you're not very well educated or very young.
My friends are in law and they read what you wrote and said: You're either the uber troll and this is just how you pass your time, or you're a moron who has no idea what they're doing.
I just talked to my lawyer friends and they told me quote: "You are either an uber troll and this is how you pass your time by making up things, or you are a moron who has no idea what you are doing."
See anyone can do that too you have yet to add to the post. My grammar is not bad its fast typing and MISTAKES sorry that I am only human but you are expecting a god? Anyways its seems mute responding to people that have 0 clue what they are talking about. When I do file the class action lawsuit do you want me to mail you the entire lawsuit so you can also see I aint playing? Most people try to resolve a situation outside of court hence what I am doing, yet you obviously dont know that.
Okay... thread locked. It just derailed into name-calling and discussing who's the bigger troll, and OP entirely missed out on actually engaging in a thoughtful debate - and many of you seem to want to chime in on some Saturday forum spam. If you suspect behavior that's against the forum rules, may I remind everyone to not respond to it but report it. Had to delete quite a few posts for that reason. Thanks.
Its funny you are still arguing with the wording on the EULA/TOS which i have clearly, bright as day, pointed out to you that these are prohibited. Which I am not fighting that point because you should know as well as I do that those 3rd party software are not allowed. Yet you still want to find justification on why Blizzard can get away with not upholding their own rules and regulations. The breach occurs everyday Blizzard allows these cheaters to continue to bot/cheat because if they dont bot they HUD if they HUD they probably bot. There isnt 1 user that just uses 1 or the other and they can hand you all the lies you want to hear but facts are facts and I am not going to give out the names of the people I have talked to on this that do use both daily without a ban since release of Diablo 3.
See I would give you the whole picture but then I would be handing over the whole case against Blizzard to allow them to try and pick it apart before going to court. Why would I do that, I am not an idiot, when they get served they can scramble to find a loophole I am not going to give them even more time to figure it out. OR they can confront the issues head on like a real company and fight the cheaters its not hard as in my original post I provided plenty of ways for them to catch people.
I know the posts are long and all but take some time actually read them and you might learn something. As far as PVP it was printed on the box they sold release date (which if I am not mistaken they took it off asap). They even had a setup at Blizzcon for people to try it out (Arena PVP) yet we have brawling yeah total bait and switch, false advertisement.
Edit #1:
One more thing about your "Breach of Contract" for PVP,
"A breach of contract occurs when one of the parties in the agreement fails to fulfill one or more of the specified terms and conditions. A violation can also be determined if some agreed work carried out is malfunctioning or sub-standard; or if one party has not carried out the agreed work. This is then placed in the hands of the law where a judge will determine if the contract has been breached and damages may be awarded to one of the parties."
I bolded the part where the PVP they released aka brawling is "sub-standard" to what was promised. Which can also be said about them making the game online only to prevent bots/hacks/cheaters that run rampant everyday. The work they said they would provide is by far sub-standard to how they treat their other games in regards to this.
So I agreed to them stopping botters/hackers/etc, and they did so by making the EULA/TOS. They breached their own contract.
That's fair enough if you don't want to publicly disclose all of your 'evidence' at this point. I'm simply stating truths based upon the 'evidence' you have provided so far. To repeat myself, yet again, Blizzard's failure/refusal to enforce penalties on users whom are deemed to have 'cheated' is not grounds for a lawsuit UNLESS it is explicitly stated that this service will be provided. Based upon the 'evidence' you have posted in this thread so far, such an explicit statement was not made, and thus there is no case on those grounds.
Again, regarding PvP. To determine if a breach has occurred, we first need to look at legally binding documents/materials which state and define those services/features which will be provided. PvP Arena is simply a name, and they can be changed, the real promise would simply have been of a PvP environment. If it can be proven using real evidence, that PvP environment is defined as x, y and z, and that element y has not yet been delivered, and that a reasonable timeframe has been exceeded, then and ONLY THEN, could any case be made against Blizzard.
You are the only one to have a legitimate conversation with and I appreciate that I really do, thanks for not trolling like others but we can go back and forth all day on how they didn't "explicitly state" that the service will be quote: "Provided". It was said that the reason for online only game is to prevent them, which has done zero to prevent them. So regardless if they explicitly stated "We will ban all users we find immediately" or posted things like the below posting over 3 years ago to make people think they are really doing something when its blatantly clear they do nothing.
LINK: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10319928
First line tells the entire lie "Play nice; Play fair." It's one of Blizzard Entertainment's core values, and it's something we take very seriously. Then they continue on about how they are trying so hard to catch the botters. 3 years not a single mention about it since. Doesn't this seem fishy to you? No AH no care about cheaters because no money income....
Edit #1: What is considered "Reasonable" time frame for them to provide the X,Y,Z format of PVP that was offered at start? 1 year? 2 years? 50 years?
This conversation has been fun for me, and I apologise if it seemed a little too heated at any point, as my intention was not to offend or anger anybody, but rather to point out flaws I saw in the posts provided.
RE: Comment #23 Edit #1:
That is not something I could answer in a legal context. For me as a player, the time liit has most definitely expired, even to the point where the majority of the player base has simply resigned themselves to the idea that PvP does not exist (in any true format) in Diablo 3 and/or RoS.
Giving up on the PVP is definitely something a lot of people have done, I for one wont give up the good fight. I just want a game that isnt so watered down that a 2 year old could play it especially on a game rated "M" for mature. However not to lose site of the OP, it is just pretty clear that they don't want to enforce their rules & regulations anymore due to 0 income. Like for example:
I rent an appartment and they make it very clear that they prohibit the use of smoking in the house and if caught I will be evicted due to it causing the property value to decline. Days go by even months and I break I cant handle it going outside anymore and I light up in the house. They find out and BAM evicted. Then Joe moves in they give him the same rules and regulations, but from day 1 Joe smokes in the house they find out and then do nothing since the monetary value incentive is no longer there they no longer care.
This is the same thing Blizzard is doing, "YEAH BAN THE BOTS WE HATE THEM! BANNED SOON! TM Posted 6/23/2013", o wait the AH is gone now and there is no more money to pay for people to read logs and ban people, o well let em cheat we cant get anymore money out of them.
./throws bucket of attention. You can go away now.
Maybe if you get some botters to sign your letter you'll get some more attention.
Troll forums are here brother (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/3354739/) please add to the conversation or don't respond at all
Edit #1 you obviously didnt read half the posts in here and the points brought up. Just to point you to one in particular that you are to incompentent to read heres the link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10319928
quote: "Play nice; Play fair." It's one of Blizzard Entertainment's core values, and it's something we take very seriously.
I put in bold the part that they obviously don't take seriously since I have 100s of people that have botted and cheated from start of their game and are STILL botting and cheating with 0 bans.
Try not to troll anymore people dont come out and post on forums that are displeased with the game. When game released there was 2000+ public games at any point in time. Yet now there is barely 30, and yet we still dont have the "number of players online" that Blizzard also promised in patch 1.07 if I am not mistaken. Please continue to try and stick up for a company that has done nothing but lie to you from the start.
Troll forums are here brother (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/3354739/) please add to the conversation or don't respond at all
Edit #1 I already have a petition with signatures you obviously didnt read any of the posts either, sorry it is to complicated for you I know. Go back to your troll cave now thanks.
Is this thread still a thing?
I know you mean well man, but if you were actually serious you wouldn't go to a game forum, you would call a solicitor/lawyer and make an appointment to see if you actually had something you can go to court with? Why would you waste time coming to the forums with it?
Your grammar and punctuation are bad, so I am assuming you're not very well educated or very young.
My friends are in law and they read what you wrote and said: You're either the uber troll and this is just how you pass your time, or you're a moron who has no idea what they're doing.
I just talked to my lawyer friends and they told me quote: "You are either an uber troll and this is how you pass your time by making up things, or you are a moron who has no idea what you are doing."
See anyone can do that too you have yet to add to the post. My grammar is not bad its fast typing and MISTAKES sorry that I am only human but you are expecting a god? Anyways its seems mute responding to people that have 0 clue what they are talking about. When I do file the class action lawsuit do you want me to mail you the entire lawsuit so you can also see I aint playing? Most people try to resolve a situation outside of court hence what I am doing, yet you obviously dont know that.
I just have one question, why did you create a new forum account to post this?
Okay... thread locked. It just derailed into name-calling and discussing who's the bigger troll, and OP entirely missed out on actually engaging in a thoughtful debate - and many of you seem to want to chime in on some Saturday forum spam. If you suspect behavior that's against the forum rules, may I remind everyone to not respond to it but report it. Had to delete quite a few posts for that reason. Thanks.