As we all know, once Hell difficulty was conquered, Diablo II did not have much else to offer. Sure, you could grind Annihilus charms or run Uber Tristram, but outside of those two things there was hardly any PvM left once Hell was done. However, it seems things are going to change once Diablo III hits shelves, as indicated by Bashiok in this post.
I'm sorry for putting [a fourth difficulty] down outright, but it's not a very sexy solution to make the end game more interesting or exciting. Sort of just draws it out, or maybe resolves some pacing issues that existed in Diablo II, which was a different game.
I've said this a lot but try not to think of Diablo III as an extension of Diablo II. Things like experience curves are not a constant that we have to take from Diablo II, implement directly into Diablo III, and then be really upset about it and have to try to solve the problems they give us. This is a new game being built from the ground up, problems aren't inherited from the previous games. We can do whatever we want.
Personally, I think Bashiok is spot on about adding a fourth difficulty. While it may seem like a good idea to some, this would solve nothing. With this suggestion, we are essentially assuming that the three difficulties in Diablo III will be scaled similarly to those in Diablo II, in terms of difficulty and overall content. We don't yet know how difficult each level of play will be ( Normal, Nightmare, Hell), we don't know how long they will be, or even if they will be the same game. Basically, we know nothing at this point outside of what Bashiok has revealed to us in this quote.
As was said, Diablo III is going to be an entirely new game. Problems that plagued Diablo II obviously will not be intentionally included in the game. This (hopefully) means a new pace to the game. Where 3 difficulties took us roughly to level 80 in Diablo II, they could take us all the way to the level cap in Diablo III. If this were to happen, it would prevent a lot of unnecessary level grinding from taking place. This would leave us free to enjoy endgame content, and to enjoy the game. Due to this recent series of posts, I'm beginning to think this may happen. As always, bear with me for this next bit of speculation.
I was in a meeting with Jay and Wyatt earlier (about something completely different), and Wyatt expressed specifically that giving players some sort of end-game that doesn't involve grinding areas or bosses is something that keeps him up at night. It's a real problem, and it needs a real solution. It's also very much in the minds of our designers and something we will try to remedy as long as we need to.
From this post, we can conclude that the development team is putting a significant amount of thought into end game activities, be it quests, new areas, or bosses. Possibly even a new realm for players to travel to after completion of Hell. However, due to the fact that they're end game activities, we can assume that they will be more difficult than Hell, which in turn would require high level characters. However, this in turn would put forth a contradiction. If the end game activities are to prevent us from grinding areas or bosses, then would it not defeat the purpose of these if we had to grind areas and bosses after Hell is completed to be able to tackle the end game content? Thus, this may suggest that the experience rates of Diablo III being scaled back slightly, to allow players an easier time of attaining a high level to actually be able to enjoy the end game content.
However, once more, this is all thrown up into the air by the fact that we cannot assume Diablo III is going to be like Diablo II. In principle, it's going to be a continuation. But, we don't even know if the difficulty levels are going to behave as they did in Diablo II. Hell may even turn out to be the end game content, with additional puzzles and scripted events provided to make the final run through an entirely new experience. Until we know more, it's incredibly difficult to peg down one thing that is for sure going to happen.
Anyway, we have many ideas, there have been many good ideas discussed out there on how to solve some of the end game issues. Some of them are pretty much spot-on for ideas we'll likely go ahead with. Most of that design and work on end-game hasn't started yet though. We're still working primarily on building out the core game experience (act-to-act world and dungeons and monsters). Just the basic play through on Normal. Which is coming along quite well still, I might add.
As always, the specifics of the ideas are not revealed. However, we do know that the content most likely will not involve significant amounts of grinding. Due to the fact that Diablo III already features random side quests, it may turn out that the development team is thinking about implementing random end game content to keep us satisfied. Of course, the difficulty and sheer amount of content would both have to be significant to keep us interested, but it can definitely be done.
Overall, this series of posts has me very hopeful for the end game. It is good to see that the development team has identified problems the players are worried about, and are doing their best to remedy them.
On a side note, if you're looking for a different take on this blue post, check out this thread by Airandius.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
After you defeat the last boss on the last difficulty, you could unlock a 'bounty hunting mode'.
It would make sense too that some sneaky little demons escaped and are still messing around in Sanctuary and their heads could be up for a bounty by the different NPCs in the different acts.
There should also be some nice stories/additional lore tied to them to get the full package.
No what I think what would be interesting would be instead of Bounty Hunting, you could have like the "Impossible" mode, where you could literally only have the BEST of the best. New monsters, new areas, and new everything. I personally think it would help everyone since you have to be actually good which will motivate people for better stuff.
As we all know, once Hell difficulty was conquered, Diablo II did not have much else to offer. Sure, you could grind Annihilus charms or run Uber Tristram, but outside of those two things there was hardly any PvM left once Hell was done. However, it seems things are going to change once Diablo III hits shelves, as indicated by Bashiok in this post.
I'm sorry for putting [a fourth difficulty] down outright, but it's not a very sexy solution to make the end game more interesting or exciting. Sort of just draws it out, or maybe resolves some pacing issues that existed in Diablo II, which was a different game.
I've said this a lot but try not to think of Diablo III as an extension of Diablo II. Things like experience curves are not a constant that we have to take from Diablo II, implement directly into Diablo III, and then be really upset about it and have to try to solve the problems they give us. This is a new game being built from the ground up, problems aren't inherited from the previous games. We can do whatever we want.
Personally, I think Bashiok is spot on about adding a fourth difficulty. While it may seem like a good idea to some, this would solve nothing. With this suggestion, we are essentially assuming that the three difficulties in Diablo III will be scaled similarly to those in Diablo II, in terms of difficulty and overall content. We don't yet know how difficult each level of play will be ( Normal, Nightmare, Hell), we don't know how long they will be, or even if they will be the same game. Basically, we know nothing at this point outside of what Bashiok has revealed to us in this quote.
As was said, Diablo III is going to be an entirely new game. Problems that plagued Diablo II obviously will not be intentionally included in the game. This (hopefully) means a new pace to the game. Where 3 difficulties took us roughly to level 80 in Diablo II, they could take us all the way to the level cap in Diablo III. If this were to happen, it would prevent a lot of unnecessary level grinding from taking place. This would leave us free to enjoy endgame content, and to enjoy the game. Due to this recent series of posts, I'm beginning to think this may happen. As always, bear with me for this next bit of speculation.
I was in a meeting with Jay and Wyatt earlier (about something completely different), and Wyatt expressed specifically that giving players some sort of end-game that doesn't involve grinding areas or bosses is something that keeps him up at night. It's a real problem, and it needs a real solution. It's also very much in the minds of our designers and something we will try to remedy as long as we need to.
From this post, we can conclude that the development team is putting a significant amount of thought into end game activities, be it quests, new areas, or bosses. Possibly even a new realm for players to travel to after completion of Hell. However, due to the fact that they're end game activities, we can assume that they will be more difficult than Hell, which in turn would require high level characters. However, this in turn would put forth a contradiction. If the end game activities are to prevent us from grinding areas or bosses, then would it not defeat the purpose of these if we had to grind areas and bosses after Hell is completed to be able to tackle the end game content? Thus, this may suggest that the experience rates of Diablo III being scaled back slightly, to allow players an easier time of attaining a high level to actually be able to enjoy the end game content.
However, once more, this is all thrown up into the air by the fact that we cannot assume Diablo III is going to be like Diablo II. In principle, it's going to be a continuation. But, we don't even know if the difficulty levels are going to behave as they did in Diablo II. Hell may even turn out to be the end game content, with additional puzzles and scripted events provided to make the final run through an entirely new experience. Until we know more, it's incredibly difficult to peg down one thing that is for sure going to happen.
Anyway, we have many ideas, there have been many good ideas discussed out there on how to solve some of the end game issues. Some of them are pretty much spot-on for ideas we'll likely go ahead with. Most of that design and work on end-game hasn't started yet though. We're still working primarily on building out the core game experience (act-to-act world and dungeons and monsters). Just the basic play through on Normal. Which is coming along quite well still, I might add.
As always, the specifics of the ideas are not revealed. However, we do know that the content most likely will not involve significant amounts of grinding. Due to the fact that Diablo III already features random side quests, it may turn out that the development team is thinking about implementing random end game content to keep us satisfied. Of course, the difficulty and sheer amount of content would both have to be significant to keep us interested, but it can definitely be done.
Overall, this series of posts has me very hopeful for the end game. It is good to see that the development team has identified problems the players are worried about, and are doing their best to remedy them.
On a side note, if you're looking for a different take on this blue post, check out this thread by Airandius.
i had plenty of fun mfing after i finished hell... its all i did in d2, was so fun xD
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Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...
Pvp focus, i think, would be the most appropriate course of action for post-hell content. it lasts longer for the amount of work involved and is an opportune moment for people to really show off what character development they've ...well.. developed.
A style of action similar to that of icecrown world pvp areas (WoW is a good example of extensive endgame material, despite being a completely different style {its not hard to see how one could incorporate ideas between games)).
One idea for end game content is to allow players to run through the original campaigns of Diablo I and II with their characters. (: But that would require them to construct the maps and scripting of 2 other games into Diablo III, which would be very time consuming... ):
I would like to see quests with some puzzles, unlocking secret places... like the cow level, where you could find interesting gear. Or maybe items that can only be founded in the last difficulty
Hmmm...a few concepts! Randomly generated bosses(or at least A randomly generated boss of end game difficulty). Crafting. User generated content. Extra hard-mode bosses with exceptional loot/special items(think Weapons from FF7). In-game "tavern"/world nexus. As someone said, a Colosseum-type area would be cool. D2 never had any built-in place to PVP and would just be world brawling. Some structure to PvP would be neat(but not the artifical VERY forced structure of WoW.)
As a special request, please DO NOT implement stupid achievements(though I assume they will anyways).
The wave defense idea sounds awesome, they could turn it into a mini-game almost where you would set up defenses like walls and guard towers to help you defend the town. It reminds me of all the custom tower defense games from Warcraft 3 that i love to play. The dungeons also sounds really cool and for the sake of not taking up too much space on the map it makes sense, since its practically 99% underground but it would be nice for some variation to the dungeons. If they made an extension to the map they could put a massive mausoleum to go into or perhaps a huge tower.
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Youth and skill will always be eventually overcome by old age and treachery.
One thing that I'd always wished Diablo 2 had implemented end game was some sort of rebuilding process from the ashes that the brothers had left in their wake.
I always found it frustrating when after clearing the Monastery in Act 1, all the Rogues would talk about moving back in and rebuilding their order but never actually did! There could of been loads of endgame content to fiddle away with just in that one part of the game! Bounty hunting out remaining demons running around the monastery, gathering lost supplies from the dungeons, just getting the Rogues all settled in and prospering again. The other acts could have had similar processes as well. Act 4 could have had a full fledged invasion of hell!
Now obviously, this would affect the other side of Diablo 2 where we all love to magic find and level up after we've finished the game. If the monastery was cleared, Kurast rebuilt, and Mount Arreat teaming with travellers again (avoiding the Worldstone shards in the process!) then there would be no monsters to kill (or at least hardly any) and things might get too tame.
But there are ways to work around this. Blizzard could implement a system where the player can choose to go back and forth to the old world where everything's gone to hell and the new one where everything's in the process of re-building. Obviously, this affects immersion a bit but I think that's a worthy sacrifice for some end-game fun.
Patches could update the end-game content with new quests and areas so there's always be something new to do. Or even better, the modding community could add some of their own content and save Blizzard the trouble. Morrowind (and I suppose Oblivion too, though I'm biased against the game) has gained lots of shelf life from its modders, why can't Diablo 3 too?
If Diablo 3 would implement something like this, I'd be a very satisfied customer.
How about Unlocking a mode where we get to bash through the (16?) levels of the old tristram cathedral!
Remastered with new graphics, better sound, indisious rework of old monsters and bosses (Hiddens and Butcher anyone?), and different challenges within the challenge (e.g Kill the Butcher under 30 seconds and use a scroll on your weapon for s cool new particle effect)
Special old school spells can probably be only found from the bookshelves in that mode (Bloodstar, Flamewave, Elemental)
You know, the really classic stuff that we all loved in D1, now in D3 as end game content!
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Official Blizzard Quote:
//www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/bn-forums/26262771716-fourth-difficulty.html" class="blizzsource">I'm sorry for putting [a fourth difficulty] down outright, but it's not a very sexy solution to make the end game more interesting or exciting. Sort of just draws it out, or maybe resolves some pacing issues that existed in Diablo II, which was a different game.
I've said this a lot but try not to think of Diablo III as an extension of Diablo II. Things like experience curves are not a constant that we have to take from Diablo II, implement directly into Diablo III, and then be really upset about it and have to try to solve the problems they give us. This is a new game being built from the ground up, problems aren't inherited from the previous games. We can do whatever we want.
Personally, I think Bashiok is spot on about adding a fourth difficulty. While it may seem like a good idea to some, this would solve nothing. With this suggestion, we are essentially assuming that the three difficulties in Diablo III will be scaled similarly to those in Diablo II, in terms of difficulty and overall content. We don't yet know how difficult each level of play will be ( Normal, Nightmare, Hell), we don't know how long they will be, or even if they will be the same game. Basically, we know nothing at this point outside of what Bashiok has revealed to us in this quote.
As was said, Diablo III is going to be an entirely new game. Problems that plagued Diablo II obviously will not be intentionally included in the game. This (hopefully) means a new pace to the game. Where 3 difficulties took us roughly to level 80 in Diablo II, they could take us all the way to the level cap in Diablo III. If this were to happen, it would prevent a lot of unnecessary level grinding from taking place. This would leave us free to enjoy endgame content, and to enjoy the game. Due to this recent series of posts, I'm beginning to think this may happen. As always, bear with me for this next bit of speculation.
Official Blizzard Quote:
//www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/bn-forums/26262771716-fourth-difficulty.html" class="blizzsource">I was in a meeting with Jay and Wyatt earlier (about something completely different), and Wyatt expressed specifically that giving players some sort of end-game that doesn't involve grinding areas or bosses is something that keeps him up at night. It's a real problem, and it needs a real solution. It's also very much in the minds of our designers and something we will try to remedy as long as we need to.
From this post, we can conclude that the development team is putting a significant amount of thought into end game activities, be it quests, new areas, or bosses. Possibly even a new realm for players to travel to after completion of Hell. However, due to the fact that they're end game activities, we can assume that they will be more difficult than Hell, which in turn would require high level characters. However, this in turn would put forth a contradiction. If the end game activities are to prevent us from grinding areas or bosses, then would it not defeat the purpose of these if we had to grind areas and bosses after Hell is completed to be able to tackle the end game content? Thus, this may suggest that the experience rates of Diablo III being scaled back slightly, to allow players an easier time of attaining a high level to actually be able to enjoy the end game content.
However, once more, this is all thrown up into the air by the fact that we cannot assume Diablo III is going to be like Diablo II. In principle, it's going to be a continuation. But, we don't even know if the difficulty levels are going to behave as they did in Diablo II. Hell may even turn out to be the end game content, with additional puzzles and scripted events provided to make the final run through an entirely new experience. Until we know more, it's incredibly difficult to peg down one thing that is for sure going to happen.
Official Blizzard Quote:
//www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/bn-forums/26262771716-fourth-difficulty.html" class="blizzsource">Anyway, we have many ideas, there have been many good ideas discussed out there on how to solve some of the end game issues. Some of them are pretty much spot-on for ideas we'll likely go ahead with. Most of that design and work on end-game hasn't started yet though. We're still working primarily on building out the core game experience (act-to-act world and dungeons and monsters). Just the basic play through on Normal. Which is coming along quite well still, I might add.
As always, the specifics of the ideas are not revealed. However, we do know that the content most likely will not involve significant amounts of grinding. Due to the fact that Diablo III already features random side quests, it may turn out that the development team is thinking about implementing random end game content to keep us satisfied. Of course, the difficulty and sheer amount of content would both have to be significant to keep us interested, but it can definitely be done.
Overall, this series of posts has me very hopeful for the end game. It is good to see that the development team has identified problems the players are worried about, and are doing their best to remedy them.
On a side note, if you're looking for a different take on this blue post, check out this thread by Airandius.
It would make sense too that some sneaky little demons escaped and are still messing around in Sanctuary and their heads could be up for a bounty by the different NPCs in the different acts.
There should also be some nice stories/additional lore tied to them to get the full package.
It made me go-
+rep for you.
i had plenty of fun mfing after i finished hell... its all i did in d2, was so fun xD
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
A style of action similar to that of icecrown world pvp areas (WoW is a good example of extensive endgame material, despite being a completely different style {its not hard to see how one could incorporate ideas between games)).
As a special request, please DO NOT implement stupid achievements(though I assume they will anyways).
I always found it frustrating when after clearing the Monastery in Act 1, all the Rogues would talk about moving back in and rebuilding their order but never actually did! There could of been loads of endgame content to fiddle away with just in that one part of the game! Bounty hunting out remaining demons running around the monastery, gathering lost supplies from the dungeons, just getting the Rogues all settled in and prospering again. The other acts could have had similar processes as well. Act 4 could have had a full fledged invasion of hell!
Now obviously, this would affect the other side of Diablo 2 where we all love to magic find and level up after we've finished the game. If the monastery was cleared, Kurast rebuilt, and Mount Arreat teaming with travellers again (avoiding the Worldstone shards in the process!) then there would be no monsters to kill (or at least hardly any) and things might get too tame.
But there are ways to work around this. Blizzard could implement a system where the player can choose to go back and forth to the old world where everything's gone to hell and the new one where everything's in the process of re-building. Obviously, this affects immersion a bit but I think that's a worthy sacrifice for some end-game fun.
Patches could update the end-game content with new quests and areas so there's always be something new to do. Or even better, the modding community could add some of their own content and save Blizzard the trouble. Morrowind (and I suppose Oblivion too, though I'm biased against the game) has gained lots of shelf life from its modders, why can't Diablo 3 too?
If Diablo 3 would implement something like this, I'd be a very satisfied customer.
Remastered with new graphics, better sound, indisious rework of old monsters and bosses (Hiddens and Butcher anyone?), and different challenges within the challenge (e.g Kill the Butcher under 30 seconds and use a scroll on your weapon for s cool new particle effect)
Special old school spells can probably be only found from the bookshelves in that mode (Bloodstar, Flamewave, Elemental)
You know, the really classic stuff that we all loved in D1, now in D3 as end game content!