I'm very tempted to beat the countess in D2 with a tweaked level 1 character just to prove how silly this "OMG the game is easy in the first 10 minutes" - debate is..
I don't think that's quite a fair comparison. The Countess has less health, weaker attacks, and no real strategic skills. She also isn't really a major part of the lore. She's a side quest with little back story, and the story of the game doesn't really flow through her plot point.
With Leoric, we have an entire game's worth of lore to back him up, he has a variety of interesting skills and mechanics, much more health, and he is absolutely a plot point, not a side quest.
I think there's something to be said for all that. Someone of Leoric's importance simply should not be able to be beaten so quickly--if at all--by level one characters.
And this isn't the first ten minutes of the game. Leoric is placed a couple hours into the game, if you're playing it at the rate it was designed to be played.
So who would you compare Leoric to then? The only boss you really have to go through in Act 1 of Diablo 2 is Andarial.
Do you think a boss 1/3 of the way through an act should be as difficult as the end boss then, just because there is lore behind him?
This article/video is dumb. This game is all based on gear and he has nothing but rare and magic items that are levels above what you should have when playing the skeleton king (level 8 remember). So even though hes at level 1 all his stats are boosted a ton including health. Its simply the fact that these low level items don't have level requirements of at least 2 on them. Nothing impressive...
Reminds me of a front page "hardcore vs casual" comment piece that was put out on mmo-champion a few months ago (it was related to game difficulty). Boubouille came in and took out the whining about Blizzard making the game too easy.
Being upset that the first hour or two of a video game is easy just points directly to:
"I am bored. I need something to complain about. Oh, I can complain about this even though it doesn't make much sense."
May I add this also, "omg I have beaten inferno, what after that, play another game, they should add another difficulty after inferno"
What I do not agree IF its the case, going through normal act 1-2-3-4, being able to do wtf I want, going afk on boss fight and come back from making a sandwich and I'm still alive. They could just make a tutorial on how things work.
One good thing tho, you can get rushed through level difficulties, no need to waste your time running around to get to a difficulty matching your skill or gameplay...
So who would you compare Leoric to then? The only boss you really have to go through in Act 1 of Diablo 2 is Andarial.
Do you think a boss 1/3 of the way through an act should be as difficult as the end boss then, just because there is lore behind him?
Nope. But the point isn't that he could be beaten so easily so much as it is the details surrounding it. It's that a third of the way through act one, when you're supposed to be level 11-13, you can beat a major plot boss at level one. I think that screams broken. That's a boss that you shouldn't be facing until you've achieved 18% to 21% of your total experience in the game at 0% experience. And this isn't limited to one case. You can see countless examples of players beating him at all sorts of low levels.
And mr magistrate, you're trying to claim the person who did this has absolutely no prior experience to the game and he just waltzed in as a level 1 after these hours of playing and so forth?
No, I don't believe I said that.
This article/video is dumb. This game is all based on gear and he has nothing but rare and magic items that are levels above what you should have when playing the skeleton king (level 8 remember). So even though hes at level 1 all his stats are boosted a ton including health. Its simply the fact that these low level items don't have level requirements of at least 2 on them. Nothing impressive...
Exactly. Why should a level one character be able to kill a boss? Why should it be able to wear extremely over-leveled gear? I think there's cause for concern there.
But as long as this stirred up responses, I've achieved my diabolical task. I'm not here to shitstorm Blizzard; nor do I think I did. You'll notice I, at no point like you did to me, said Blizzard's work was dumb. I simply pointed out some issues that might need to be addressed. I've been here for nearly five years to keep people thinking, active, and communicating I'm simply raising a subject that others have voiced concern for.
Of course, your feedback on the topic will help me tailor articles in the future to what you guys want. That's the problem: you can't please everyone, and sometimes you can't please almost everyone. It's a roll of the dice. So, from post to post, we have to analyze responses and think about how this plays into the broader role of front page articles.
Enough whining, unfounded speculation, twisting of words, and terribleawfulholy balls this is overdone nightmarishly bad jokes in there for you magistrate?
You've gotta be the only person who can hear "inferno difficulty is really hard, hell is really hard, nightmare is hard but we think you can handle it if you can beat normal" as "OMFG NIGHTMARE SO EASY EASYMODECASUALGAME LOLOL."
I can vote down posts at the Blizz forums, why no here D:
It's OK, my post will probably get deleted for "trolling" or something, even though it's a perfectly reasonable statement. I don't like reading articles that sound like they were written by that incgamers idiot, that's why I go here. If that special brand of stupidity spreads, where will I read about Diablo?
It's OK, my post will probably get deleted for "trolling" or something, even though it's a perfectly reasonable statement. I don't like reading articles that sound like they were written by that incgamers idiot, that's why I go here. If that special brand of stupidity spreads, where will I read about Diablo?
No, it won't. We only delete troll posts for trolling. You posted your thoughts and I respect that.
I honestly thought it would be a good point to take a stance on something and post something controversial. I did that, and obviously came off more subjectively than I intended. I'm sorry I've ruined your experience here and I hope I can make up for it in the future, OmniNom.
"It's likely that without the mass availability of cheap gear--mostly due to duping and botting--Hell would have been even more challenging. Just imagine trying to beat Hell mode without that Enigma, Call to Arms, or Infinity. Many of us can admit that such a version of the game would require significantly different strategies than the Teleport-and-spam-Traps/Hammers/Lightning/Fireballs/insert-your-skill-here that many players are so accustomed to."
Um, just a question. If Hell was not challenging enough for you people because of duped/traded top tier gear...why in the world did you do that?? I really sometimes can't understand people. I have beaten Hell with all character classes without twinking and such and the sense of accomplishment was awesome. Why in the world would any sane person deny themselves that? It's like playing Doom 2 for the first time ever and having IDDQD on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head!
"It's likely that without the mass availability of cheap gear--mostly due to duping and botting--Hell would have been even more challenging. Just imagine trying to beat Hell mode without that Enigma, Call to Arms, or Infinity. Many of us can admit that such a version of the game would require significantly different strategies than the Teleport-and-spam-Traps/Hammers/Lightning/Fireballs/insert-your-skill-here that many players are so accustomed to."
Um, just a question. If Hell was not challenging enough for you people because of duped/traded top tier gear...why in the world did you do that?? I really sometimes can't understand people. I have beaten Hell with all character classes without twinking and such and the sense of accomplishment was awesome. Why in the world would any sane person deny themselves that? It's like playing Doom 2 for the first time ever and having IDDQD on.
I don't know. Ask the thousands of players every day that do
There's not really a way to know what is and isn't duped and what is and isn't farmed by bots. Once it's in the economy, it's part of the completely legitimate trading game. Should we deny ourselves trading opportunities?
I don't think we are looking at enough of the game to start making predictions on difficulty. This is the first sub-boss... of the first act.. of the first difficulty level. Not to mention that it's in Beta. Trying to draw conclusions from such small ammounts of data is pointless. Practically no better than a guess. Fun tp speculate but I'm not worried yet.
The part about nightmare basically being a ramp up to hell diffiulty is concerning though. In Diablo II, at the beginning of each Difficulty level you felt challenged. Of course, this game does add Inferno, which sounds amazing to me.
Nope. But the point isn't that he could be beaten so easily so much as it is the details surrounding it. It's that a third of the way through act one, when you're supposed to be level 11-13, you can beat a major plot boss at level one. I think that screams broken. That's a boss that you shouldn't be facing until you've achieved 18% to 21% of your total experience in the game at 0% experience. And this isn't limited to one case. You can see countless examples of players beating him at all sorts of low levels.
When I play through the beta I have almost always fought him at level 7-8.
Regardless. These characters killing him are:
1. Obviously using gear that does not have level restrictions.
2. Have farmed health potions on them.
3. Due to these things, they have enhanced stats.
It's like saying World of Warcraft PvP is broken and then citing the reason: "This level 29 character that has spent thousands of gold on specific items for his character can kill my level 39 who has terrible gear! HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?"
Yeah, he can kill them at level one. I think I'd rather fight him at level one with gear that I spend two/three weeks gathering up than fight him at level 7-8 with just the gear that I pick up along the way. That doesn't mean "THE GAME IS BROKEN!" though... it just means that some dude farmed a bunch of items and spent time so he could kill the boss at the end of a freaking beta at level one.
I'd like you to go try to kill Leoric when first entering the game at level one. No extra loot, no extra potions. Just log on, go to the WP, go to Leoric and then just fight him. My guess is you can probably kill him, but it'd take (like some of these videos) 3-5 minutes. Mainly because Leoric is slow and his mechanics are made easier for the easy difficulty. It won't continue like that through the rest of the game.
I honestly don't know why I come to this site anymore. All you see is people bitching. I remember when people had reasonable conversations about things that mattered in the game... that was awesome. But I guess everyone is getting bored, so that is understandable.
I question the validity of the video. The dude gains no experience from killing the mobs at the gate. Plus, I've actually tried doing the same thing (getting a lvl 1 character to Leoric) and you simply can't do it. Even if you try to get someone to "power act" you through it, whenever that a quest is completed, you still get experience from it even if you're in town while it's completed.
Nope. But the point isn't that he could be beaten so easily so much as it is the details surrounding it. It's that a third of the way through act one, when you're supposed to be level 11-13, you can beat a major plot boss at level one. I think that screams broken. That's a boss that you shouldn't be facing until you've achieved 18% to 21% of your total experience in the game at 0% experience. And this isn't limited to one case. You can see countless examples of players beating him at all sorts of low levels.
Skeleton King is more on the 6-8 level range than 11-13.
Exactly. Why should a level one character be able to kill a boss? Why should it be able to wear extremely over-leveled gear? I think there's cause for concern there.
The problem then is gear restriction. But I feel it's too soon to complain about gear restriction. If later it appears you can wear gear that enables you to beat nightmare at level 15 without much issue then please yes I will complain with you. Right now... meh. Blizzard is aware beta is easy and players complain, it's up to them to do the right thing for what comes next but be assured they know it by now.
It's OK, my post will probably get deleted for "trolling" or something, even though it's a perfectly reasonable statement. I don't like reading articles that sound like they were written by that incgamers idiot, that's why I go here. If that special brand of stupidity spreads, where will I read about Diablo?
No, it won't. We only delete troll posts for trolling. You posted your thoughts and I respect that.
I honestly thought it would be a good point to take a stance on something and post something controversial. I did that, and obviously came off more subjectively than I intended. I'm sorry I've ruined your experience here and I hope I can make up for it in the future, OmniNom.
You just had to go and ruin my perfectly good internet rage with kindness and understanding, didn't you? D:
It's OK, my post will probably get deleted for "trolling" or something, even though it's a perfectly reasonable statement. I don't like reading articles that sound like they were written by that incgamers idiot, that's why I go here. If that special brand of stupidity spreads, where will I read about Diablo?
No, it won't. We only delete troll posts for trolling. You posted your thoughts and I respect that.
I honestly thought it would be a good point to take a stance on something and post something controversial. I did that, and obviously came off more subjectively than I intended. I'm sorry I've ruined your experience here and I hope I can make up for it in the future, OmniNom.
You just had to go and ruin my perfectly good internet rage with kindness and understanding, didn't you? D:
I'm getting enough of it right now. I don't think it's necessary to return more to justifiably upset readers.
I question the validity of the video. The dude gains no experience from killing the mobs at the gate. Plus, I've actually tried doing the same thing (getting a lvl 1 character to Leoric) and you simply can't do it. Even if you try to get someone to "power act" you through it, whenever that a quest is completed, you still get experience from it even if you're in town while it's completed.
go read the thread this video is in, it explains all this already.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So who would you compare Leoric to then? The only boss you really have to go through in Act 1 of Diablo 2 is Andarial.
Do you think a boss 1/3 of the way through an act should be as difficult as the end boss then, just because there is lore behind him?
"I am bored. I need something to complain about. Oh, I can complain about this even though it doesn't make much sense."
Maybe he should clean up this post too.
May I add this also, "omg I have beaten inferno, what after that, play another game, they should add another difficulty after inferno"
What I do not agree IF its the case, going through normal act 1-2-3-4, being able to do wtf I want, going afk on boss fight and come back from making a sandwich and I'm still alive. They could just make a tutorial on how things work.
One good thing tho, you can get rushed through level difficulties, no need to waste your time running around to get to a difficulty matching your skill or gameplay...
Nope. But the point isn't that he could be beaten so easily so much as it is the details surrounding it. It's that a third of the way through act one, when you're supposed to be level 11-13, you can beat a major plot boss at level one. I think that screams broken. That's a boss that you shouldn't be facing until you've achieved 18% to 21% of your total experience in the game at 0% experience. And this isn't limited to one case. You can see countless examples of players beating him at all sorts of low levels.
No, I don't believe I said that.
Exactly. Why should a level one character be able to kill a boss? Why should it be able to wear extremely over-leveled gear? I think there's cause for concern there.
But as long as this stirred up responses, I've achieved my diabolical task. I'm not here to shitstorm Blizzard; nor do I think I did. You'll notice I, at no point like you did to me, said Blizzard's work was dumb. I simply pointed out some issues that might need to be addressed. I've been here for nearly five years to keep people thinking, active, and communicating I'm simply raising a subject that others have voiced concern for.
Of course, your feedback on the topic will help me tailor articles in the future to what you guys want. That's the problem: you can't please everyone, and sometimes you can't please almost everyone. It's a roll of the dice. So, from post to post, we have to analyze responses and think about how this plays into the broader role of front page articles.
terribleawfulholy balls this is overdonenightmarishly bad jokes in there for you magistrate?You've gotta be the only person who can hear "inferno difficulty is really hard, hell is really hard, nightmare is hard but we think you can handle it if you can beat normal" as "OMFG NIGHTMARE SO EASY EASYMODECASUALGAME LOLOL."
I can vote down posts at the Blizz forums, why no here D:
This is the most entertaining post on Dfans in a while!
No, it won't. We only delete troll posts for trolling. You posted your thoughts and I respect that.
I honestly thought it would be a good point to take a stance on something and post something controversial. I did that, and obviously came off more subjectively than I intended. I'm sorry I've ruined your experience here and I hope I can make up for it in the future, OmniNom.
Um, just a question. If Hell was not challenging enough for you people because of duped/traded top tier gear...why in the world did you do that?? I really sometimes can't understand people. I have beaten Hell with all character classes without twinking and such and the sense of accomplishment was awesome. Why in the world would any sane person deny themselves that? It's like playing Doom 2 for the first time ever and having IDDQD on.
I don't know. Ask the thousands of players every day that do
There's not really a way to know what is and isn't duped and what is and isn't farmed by bots. Once it's in the economy, it's part of the completely legitimate trading game. Should we deny ourselves trading opportunities?
The part about nightmare basically being a ramp up to hell diffiulty is concerning though. In Diablo II, at the beginning of each Difficulty level you felt challenged. Of course, this game does add Inferno, which sounds amazing to me.
When I play through the beta I have almost always fought him at level 7-8.
Regardless. These characters killing him are:
1. Obviously using gear that does not have level restrictions.
2. Have farmed health potions on them.
3. Due to these things, they have enhanced stats.
It's like saying World of Warcraft PvP is broken and then citing the reason: "This level 29 character that has spent thousands of gold on specific items for his character can kill my level 39 who has terrible gear! HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?"
Yeah, he can kill them at level one. I think I'd rather fight him at level one with gear that I spend two/three weeks gathering up than fight him at level 7-8 with just the gear that I pick up along the way. That doesn't mean "THE GAME IS BROKEN!" though... it just means that some dude farmed a bunch of items and spent time so he could kill the boss at the end of a freaking beta at level one.
I'd like you to go try to kill Leoric when first entering the game at level one. No extra loot, no extra potions. Just log on, go to the WP, go to Leoric and then just fight him. My guess is you can probably kill him, but it'd take (like some of these videos) 3-5 minutes. Mainly because Leoric is slow and his mechanics are made easier for the easy difficulty. It won't continue like that through the rest of the game.
I honestly don't know why I come to this site anymore. All you see is people bitching. I remember when people had reasonable conversations about things that mattered in the game... that was awesome. But I guess everyone is getting bored, so that is understandable.
Skeleton King is more on the 6-8 level range than 11-13.
The problem then is gear restriction. But I feel it's too soon to complain about gear restriction. If later it appears you can wear gear that enables you to beat nightmare at level 15 without much issue then please yes I will complain with you. Right now... meh. Blizzard is aware beta is easy and players complain, it's up to them to do the right thing for what comes next but be assured they know it by now.
You just had to go and ruin my perfectly good internet rage with kindness and understanding, didn't you? D:
I'm getting enough of it right now. I don't think it's necessary to return more to justifiably upset readers.
go read the thread this video is in, it explains all this already.