Well - good points all - but I can't help but notice you're not actually disagreeing with Mortac's dps and ehp summary there Rhye. I've had a look at your monk and you can't argue that you must have spent a ton of gold on that gear There are VERY VERY few monks doing 200k dps... whereas there are many barbs that easily do that and more.
Ok I have to stop you right there, a 200k barb is just as expensive as 200k monk, more people just play barb because there is the whole sheep syndrome going around Diablo. Another thing your not considering is while Rhyes paper DPS shows 239k, with MoC that is really around 350ish dps, and again thats only paper dps not effective dps. and im not sure if thats a snap shot with all the other dps increase talents monk has so it may even be more.
Hmmm you started off your rant decent, but sorta went downhill after (OP's post). Being the 2 main classes I play are monk and barb, plus dabble a bit in wiz I thought I would add my thoughts on this.
I completely agree with the life steal situation, going between barb and monk I really feel the difference between 6% and 3%, sure I could get LS on both my monks weapons, but with CD socket AS it gets pretty spendy fast. I think all belt should have LS to help even things up there.
Next point i wanted to hit on is the whole Inna's vs IK. Your right, no high end monks use full Inna's... then again no high end barbs use full IK. In fact you could make the argument that almost all high end barbs use Inna's pants while no high end monks use any IK piece. See how that gets twised around? both sets have good and bad points, but the full sets in either cases are used only for speed farming, and in barbs case more for people who have issues with rage.
As for resists, well Monks still have the advantage as long as OwE stays in play, take that away and then yes monks will be in huge trouble. Atm being able to get 100-150 resists off one piece is etremely nice and makes up for lack of resist in other pieces. Also opens up some cheaper options in gearing and while lets say an Inna's Vast Expanse may not have res all standard, you can get one with a single resist fairly cheaply.
Speed of farming, well... what are we talking about here? If your trying to farm higher MPs faster, sure Barb is better, problem is higher mps arent really an advantage. TR tears though lower Mps and i got min started with TR for less than 50m. I don't know about other people who play both classes, but I for one feel slow when playing my barb as ww after playing TR. Also I can stop and go " OHH! SHINEY!" w/o having to worry about zerk falling off lol. Still, monks could use a slight boost to TR, maybe lower spirit costs or not basing cost on weapon speed.
Speaking of damage, I think a lot of people really under estimate the true damage a monk can put out. MoC is amazing 48% damage at a near 100% uptime, and everyone in party benifits, you do reallyize your every other classes best friend when your running this right? When I'm on my barb I will make love to any monk on the spot that starts spamming MoC like a champ. Oh and lets not forget Cyclone... amazing aoe dps, arguably the best aoe dps in the game. Problem I think is a lot of monks dps doesn't show on paper doll, so people think its less then it is, but paper doll in no way, shape, or form reflects actual dps on any class. Is a monk gonna beat a decked out DW HotA barb single target? Prob not, though I don't think any class can single target atm (maybe a dh). But a monk will do much more aoe dps and also will wipe the floor with a ww barb (sorry guys but WW barbs dps blows hard).
There is one major gripe I have between barb and monk atm, and that is armor. Ideally you want 10% of your armor as resist for maximum effectiveness with little diminishing returns. On a barb this is easy, on a monk its next to impossible. Sure monks have dodge but dodge sucks, in fact if anyone from Blizzard happens to read this "F your dodge!". Maybe its because I have played to much WoW in my life, but I believe its better to mitigate all incoming damage to a reasonable level so you can properly heal through it then play with the rng of dodge where one min you might take nothing then with bad rng take 3-4 huge hits in a second or 2 and die. This coupled with LS is barbs biggest advantage by far atm and allows them so sit in massive amounts of damage while heaing through it, I would love a rune that give you armor = to the amount of dex you have, but at a 50-75% decrease of dodge (haven't done any math on this yet).
Do you ever have to stop or circle around mobs to make them die? The definition of "efficient" is a bit unclear of course, but the goal here I think is to get 10m exp in 7 minutes, or roughly 80m-85m/hour.
I'm sure you're doing fine, it just has to be clear what the goal is here. If you can do 80m/hour with 80k unbuffed, good for you. I can't.
core > tower of damned 1 > crater 2 > rakkis cross > fields > depths 3 > depths 2 in 10-12 min
I guess maybe if your not stopping for elites 250 would be important but I dont feel the 2-3 seconds you stop matters, plus you need to refresh Foresight anyways.
Oh and forgot to add thats with picking up rare 1h's, gloves, wrists and off hands on top of legendaries, not the most efficient but im hoping to find a few things
I'm not using TR right now, but to farm MP0 efficiently I think it is enough to have 150k-200k dps and enough spirit regen to never stop.
What?
How high was the person who told you this? Maybe for MP3-4, but I efficiently plow throw MP0 on my monk and I am no where near 150-200k dps (unless we are counting the extra 24% from MoC that doesnt show on paperdoll). Unbuffed I am roughly 81k in my TR gear.
well i went from a barb to a tr monk if that helps. tr is much more of a lazy persons spec, easy and enjoyable. in terms of gold spent you will probably get an extra mp level outta barb, but to be honest i havent noticed a difference in the amount of drops. stick with monk if you like lazy and relaxed
Close to what I use for farming Ubers or MP9-10 for keys. HotA Is extremely good and you do not need great gear to make it work (though great gear helps).
Interesting revision of the HotA build for farming though. I'm gonna try it out, though I feel smash would be better than thunderclap since everything dies so fast.
http://us.battle.net...ZQRP!eYZ!cZZbYc is the HotA build I use for higher MP, if your DW or even SnB OP can be kept up almost 100% making it very effective.
2 hander can be used for hota but will be much harder to keep WotB 100% (though you can by using superstition and standing in poison, molten, desecrate, ect.)
Oh one thing I want to point out in this video that I find to be completely misleading. SoJ is great for damage, the the reduced HotA cost is not necessary. I have absolutely zero trouble maintaining full rage when I am on a target with zero HotA reduction, and have 2 lesser geared friends that converted to the build and have no issues either.
Bump cuz this video is just a lucky run. It doesnt happen it real life !
Need more advice I dont wanna waste Millions !
Its not that lucky of a run, I do it myself and when I follow the exact method I get an average of 1 legendary per run (10-15 min depending on how lazy I am). does this mean that I get a legendary ever run? No. But then I get a run where I get 2-3 which evens things out.
Oh and good lacunis arent 100m+ you can get ones with 80+str, 9% attack speed, and 4 crit for 20-30m. And 24% movement speed is pretty much mandatory for any effiecient farmng build.
It's pretty bad situation where everyone want to move as fast as possible because monsters are so easy and increasing their power is counter-productive as you don't gain enough of a bonus.
However, the barb's fast movement ability is still the best one, even if the difference is minimized by reducing gear requirements so that tempest rush monks and vault demon hunters can sort of compete (but not really because monks need crazy gear to not run out of spirit and still kill fast, and don't actually kill so fast as they have to stop in order to attack, and DHs need pretty good gear to survive while vaulting everywhere, 4pc legacy natalya for discipline and still have to stop to attack). Running through everything at +40% movement speed and watching everything die behind you (or not watching it) is still better than everything else. Plus the overall survivability and damage dealing ability of the build is at least as good as other builds (if you build it right and take advantages of sprint dual wielding mechanics to get very strong tornado ticks for cheap), making it an overall clear winner.
Short version: Barb is faster, and the less gear both you and the other classes have, the more apparent the difference is.
Monks do not need crazy gear to not run out, spent about 50m on my starting set on monk and could hhold TR all day w/o running out of spirit. Also if your farming you dont need high mp levels, you can average a legendary every 15 min out of MP0 if your doing it right.
Hey Det0x... looking back over your video and it hit me that you might be able to shave 30sec or more off your HotA time by using Overpower: Crushing Advance or Killing Spree. As Dual wield HotA you can easily keep those rolling at 100% uptime, as for which is better I'm not entirely positive, I'm fairly certain Crushing Advance would be huge on rak/gom.
Not sure if your even interested and retrying it for a better record but I thought I would throw it out there
I'm aiming to farm some highers MP for more mf +loot bonus. I tried it and its doable but I often face ennemies that rape me hard. I wonder if more defense would make it or I should increase my dmg and let the life steal do his job !
Id like your advice on some upgrades I need, or just a general idea about def stats, or dps stats.
I completely changed how I farm. Now even farming MP0 I am averaging a legendary every 10-15 minutes.
Either way, gear looks decent really only thing to do from where you are is add more crit crit damage and attack speed. Probably suggest getting str crit lacunis and some high str ice climbers.
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Ok I have to stop you right there, a 200k barb is just as expensive as 200k monk, more people just play barb because there is the whole sheep syndrome going around Diablo. Another thing your not considering is while Rhyes paper DPS shows 239k, with MoC that is really around 350ish dps, and again thats only paper dps not effective dps. and im not sure if thats a snap shot with all the other dps increase talents monk has so it may even be more.
P.S. Rhye can I touch your gear? lol
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I completely agree with the life steal situation, going between barb and monk I really feel the difference between 6% and 3%, sure I could get LS on both my monks weapons, but with CD socket AS it gets pretty spendy fast. I think all belt should have LS to help even things up there.
Next point i wanted to hit on is the whole Inna's vs IK. Your right, no high end monks use full Inna's... then again no high end barbs use full IK. In fact you could make the argument that almost all high end barbs use Inna's pants while no high end monks use any IK piece. See how that gets twised around? both sets have good and bad points, but the full sets in either cases are used only for speed farming, and in barbs case more for people who have issues with rage.
As for resists, well Monks still have the advantage as long as OwE stays in play, take that away and then yes monks will be in huge trouble. Atm being able to get 100-150 resists off one piece is etremely nice and makes up for lack of resist in other pieces. Also opens up some cheaper options in gearing and while lets say an Inna's Vast Expanse may not have res all standard, you can get one with a single resist fairly cheaply.
Speed of farming, well... what are we talking about here? If your trying to farm higher MPs faster, sure Barb is better, problem is higher mps arent really an advantage. TR tears though lower Mps and i got min started with TR for less than 50m. I don't know about other people who play both classes, but I for one feel slow when playing my barb as ww after playing TR. Also I can stop and go " OHH! SHINEY!" w/o having to worry about zerk falling off lol. Still, monks could use a slight boost to TR, maybe lower spirit costs or not basing cost on weapon speed.
Speaking of damage, I think a lot of people really under estimate the true damage a monk can put out. MoC is amazing 48% damage at a near 100% uptime, and everyone in party benifits, you do reallyize your every other classes best friend when your running this right? When I'm on my barb I will make love to any monk on the spot that starts spamming MoC like a champ. Oh and lets not forget Cyclone... amazing aoe dps, arguably the best aoe dps in the game. Problem I think is a lot of monks dps doesn't show on paper doll, so people think its less then it is, but paper doll in no way, shape, or form reflects actual dps on any class. Is a monk gonna beat a decked out DW HotA barb single target? Prob not, though I don't think any class can single target atm (maybe a dh). But a monk will do much more aoe dps and also will wipe the floor with a ww barb (sorry guys but WW barbs dps blows hard).
There is one major gripe I have between barb and monk atm, and that is armor. Ideally you want 10% of your armor as resist for maximum effectiveness with little diminishing returns. On a barb this is easy, on a monk its next to impossible. Sure monks have dodge but dodge sucks, in fact if anyone from Blizzard happens to read this "F your dodge!". Maybe its because I have played to much WoW in my life, but I believe its better to mitigate all incoming damage to a reasonable level so you can properly heal through it then play with the rng of dodge where one min you might take nothing then with bad rng take 3-4 huge hits in a second or 2 and die. This coupled with LS is barbs biggest advantage by far atm and allows them so sit in massive amounts of damage while heaing through it, I would love a rune that give you armor = to the amount of dex you have, but at a 50-75% decrease of dodge (haven't done any math on this yet).
Anyways that finishes my rant for the moment
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core > tower of damned 1 > crater 2 > rakkis cross > fields > depths 3 > depths 2 in 10-12 min
I guess maybe if your not stopping for elites 250 would be important but I dont feel the 2-3 seconds you stop matters, plus you need to refresh Foresight anyways.
Oh and forgot to add thats with picking up rare 1h's, gloves, wrists and off hands on top of legendaries, not the most efficient but im hoping to find a few things
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What?
How high was the person who told you this? Maybe for MP3-4, but I efficiently plow throw MP0 on my monk and I am no where near 150-200k dps (unless we are counting the extra 24% from MoC that doesnt show on paperdoll). Unbuffed I am roughly 81k in my TR gear.
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Grats.
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Interesting revision of the HotA build for farming though. I'm gonna try it out, though I feel smash would be better than thunderclap since everything dies so fast.
http://us.battle.net...ZQRP!eYZ!cZZbYc is the HotA build I use for higher MP, if your DW or even SnB OP can be kept up almost 100% making it very effective.
2 hander can be used for hota but will be much harder to keep WotB 100% (though you can by using superstition and standing in poison, molten, desecrate, ect.)
Oh one thing I want to point out in this video that I find to be completely misleading. SoJ is great for damage, the the reduced HotA cost is not necessary. I have absolutely zero trouble maintaining full rage when I am on a target with zero HotA reduction, and have 2 lesser geared friends that converted to the build and have no issues either.
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Its not that lucky of a run, I do it myself and when I follow the exact method I get an average of 1 legendary per run (10-15 min depending on how lazy I am). does this mean that I get a legendary ever run? No. But then I get a run where I get 2-3 which evens things out.
Oh and good lacunis arent 100m+ you can get ones with 80+str, 9% attack speed, and 4 crit for 20-30m. And 24% movement speed is pretty much mandatory for any effiecient farmng build.
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Combination strike, hands down a way better dps alternative, also exalted soul, chant of resonance can be allowing you to spam conv more
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Monks do not need crazy gear to not run out, spent about 50m on my starting set on monk and could hhold TR all day w/o running out of spirit. Also if your farming you dont need high mp levels, you can average a legendary every 15 min out of MP0 if your doing it right.
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Not sure if your even interested and retrying it for a better record but I thought I would throw it out there
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Higher MP is over rated. I started thinking it was the way to go but after watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaKqeOt4c7o&continue_action=p3z7Nxh3ZoFaqjy5nhNI1UXATp0ctMZCRYSKpbmF49NsudB2YqUwdHGz5ELpH69E2i_7eBW5NUUAnT0DoMWdCdCtQQoW1hgsd2xx_8bFL-k=
I completely changed how I farm. Now even farming MP0 I am averaging a legendary every 10-15 minutes.
Either way, gear looks decent really only thing to do from where you are is add more crit crit damage and attack speed. Probably suggest getting str crit lacunis and some high str ice climbers.
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Most monks dont even use OwE at high levels anymore....
DPS is all that matters in the new D3
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