.......i don't even....... Nothing can walk through the zombie wall, it is a redesign of the classic necro ability, bone wall. OBVIOUSLY the indigo rune makes the wall longer ie 1x5 becomes 1x10 runed.
Thank you.
D3maniac, you say your points are based on common sense and observation of skill mechanics in beta, but your blatant disregard for all logic concerning Zombie Wall makes me have to take your notion of "common sense" with a very large grain of salt.
no one knows that its a 'redesign' of anything, MORE speculation. speculation based on skills in D2? ya thats logical to assume this ability works EXACTLY the same, not. my speculation is based on the rune effects, yours is based on NOTHING, neither of yours. its a joke to think your "argument" somehow trumps mine with zero reasons behind it, besides "wall" in the name, lmao. and the indigo rune makes the WIDTH twice as large not the length, how do i know this? because the effing ability says WIDTH FFS. i hate arguing with people who use zero logic and dont use reasons behind what they think. im using specific examples, YOUR using PURE speculation.
You really need to realize that you are being a humongous hypocrite, you are fighting speculation with speculation and your 'common sense' seems to only have things in common with your own senses. How come I can't draw comparisons from D2 to assume how abilities will work? A majority of the spells are remakes of old spells and they are working fairly similar this time around. They only managed to make bone wall cooler because now it attacks what it touches.
On the topic of length vs. width: These two words are entirely interchangeable and are totally relative to your orientation to the object you are describing. Length's application to zombie wall is a bit more narrow, specifying that it will simply be doubling the longest side of the wall. Width can be applied to either the shorter or longer side.
you do realize were talking WIDTH and not LENGTH right? two VERY different things. the WIDTH makes sense for its if able to be walked through, LENGTH would make me believe the opposite is true. and saying "blizzard wouldnt... blizzard would" is NOT a freaking point, holy shit. thats not even close to an argument, please stay with facts about skills and how they work, which is what this entire argument is about. not what you think blizz would or wouldnt do.
we know the monsters will have advanced AI especially in inferno, so why would monsters walk UP to a wall that will attack and slow them if they HAVE to walk AROUND in the first palce. they wouldnt. so it makes WAY more sense that it can be walked through. still dont see why you would think otherwise.
.......i don't even....... Nothing can walk through the zombie wall, it is a redesign of the classic necro ability, bone wall. OBVIOUSLY the indigo rune makes the wall longer ie 1x5 becomes 1x10 runed. And wtf do you think the game AI is, the monsters won't be rolling around on the ground like idiots, but they won't really have the problem solving to avoid the walls with peak efficiency like a player would in arena, they will simply be more aggressive. Also, how much CC do you think we'll need? We will obviously need to control positioning vs monsters with CC, but do we need disables like hex? Personally I think most builds could get by with just grasp and horrify, but zombie wall will probably be super useful since it's spammable. You seem to be very worried about defense but you are using flamebats? Your whole concept of the WD seems very warped, I dunno...
check it: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ZcikYe!dWY!aaZYaa
why can't something like that be viable? melee confusion, hp/mp regenerating easy-to-cast damaging spell, hard(i consider zombie wall hard) and soft crowd control, and an escape tool. Seems like a pretty efficient machine that can kite all day to me
I think 80% crit is enough, unless there are diminishing returns, which I don't think there will be in PvM. I wasn't aware of this rune, but I was aware of alabaster rune on storm armor. Obvious synergy is obvious, so here's a pretty sweet build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#dlOZgi!YdV!babZaa
Since the synergy is so good, I favored spamming blizzard over a harder-hitting blizzard, hence the gold familiar. Alabaster nova is overkill, but crimson seems super good for this build as does gold, which could keep everything locked down nearly all the time for really dense packs of mobs to blizzard.
Not sure if pvp builds without indigo runestone zombie dogs (70% dmg transfert to dogs)will be viable since it might be hard to effectively CC other range classes who'll be nuking you from distance. Also if CC duration will be greatly reduced for pvp getting max dmg reduction will be a nessesity. But all in all looks like a fine build to me, just curious whether you're able to go through your zombie wall with spirit walk (think i saw WD ignoring unit collision in spirit walk state during blizzcon class presentation).
Oooooo never put any thought to dogs, though I am afraid that whenever they are up, the opposing team will just LoS while they kill them. A lot depends on how controllable the dogs are, but that would be a ton of mitigation, maybe even enough to drop Death Trance. I think dogs would be better suited for an aggressive build where you need a meat shield to let you stop moving and chain spells.
I've found the WD's pvp toolbox to be my favorite and today I stumbled across a build that may very well be my deciding factor for going WD as my main. This is a support build that is heavy in crowd control and survivability and abuses Rush of Essence+Pierce Through the Veil for infinite mana and a free boost in damage. I'm going to break down the skill choices one by one. Here's the build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#cikdeU!fdW!ZZYaaa
1. Haunt(Crimson): This is not a dps build and you will be fairly squishy to melee. Haunt with crimson will allow you to stay mobile while keeping up some pressure and keeping your health topped off. With passives, this spell will cost ~138 mana and regen ~276 mana over 10 secs, effectively giving you infinite mana alongside Spirit Barrage.
2. Spirit Barrage(Crimson): This serves as your supplemental dps whenever when either all your targets are Haunted or you are going for a kill. The damage isn't great, but if your opponents are properly controlled, it should be enough. Like Haunt, crimson rune makes Barrage a heal which I suspect will make the WD very durable when used together. Also like Haunt, Barrage combined with Rush of Essence effectively gives you infinite mana, which is convenient because you might want to be dumping lots of mana into your next skill.
3. Zombie Wall(Indigo): Maybe I am assuming too much, but I think Zombie Wall with double width rune will be incredibly strong. It is a little expensive, but it is spammable and has countless uses on both offence and defense, and the cost should be easy do manage as long as you are weaving in enough spirit spells. The utility of this ability really depends on how certain escape mechanics will operate against it. I'm assuming Leap Attack and Tele can overcome the wall, but abilities like Vault and Dashing Strike may not. Either way it will have tons of uses, though you will have to be careful no to create your own death trap and wall yourself in for 5 secs only to have a Barb leap on top of you.
4. Hex(Alabaster): Apparently the shaman hexes twice during it's life but I'm not quite sure how it will be normalized or how targeting will work. Either way, this should be a fantastic offensive disable, especially with alabaster rune pushing the damage bonus up to 90%!
5. Horrify(Alabaster): Fears are always great mechanics and Horrify is no exception. Alabaster rune enhances it's effectiveness as an escape tool and allows you to quickly get back to your dps target while you trying to chain CC another target. Horrify should be saved for melee attackers if there are any on the opposing team.
6. Spirit Walk(Alabaster): With alabaster rune, Spirit walk is the ultimate responsive escape tool. 3 seconds of vanish is all you will need considering you will come out of it with an extra 48# health. SW can also set up some nasty Horrifies.
Passives-
1. Death Trance: This is your insurance policy meant to buy you enough time to Spirit Walk if you are getting focused and disabled
2. Pierce Through the Veil: The 30% mana cost increase is actually a buff when combined with Rush of Essence and although damage is not your focus, your damage does translate into health, so +20% damage is crucial.
3. Rush of Essence: Obviously a backbone passive for this build, allowing you to cast as many damaging spells as you please, and fueling as many zombie walls as you see fit.
I am relieved that they cut the talisman, not because I didn't like it, but because it shows that they are finally getting real and making concessions when needed to get things moving. The wait for beta is killlllliiing me.
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On the topic of length vs. width: These two words are entirely interchangeable and are totally relative to your orientation to the object you are describing. Length's application to zombie wall is a bit more narrow, specifying that it will simply be doubling the longest side of the wall. Width can be applied to either the shorter or longer side.
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.......i don't even....... Nothing can walk through the zombie wall, it is a redesign of the classic necro ability, bone wall. OBVIOUSLY the indigo rune makes the wall longer ie 1x5 becomes 1x10 runed. And wtf do you think the game AI is, the monsters won't be rolling around on the ground like idiots, but they won't really have the problem solving to avoid the walls with peak efficiency like a player would in arena, they will simply be more aggressive. Also, how much CC do you think we'll need? We will obviously need to control positioning vs monsters with CC, but do we need disables like hex? Personally I think most builds could get by with just grasp and horrify, but zombie wall will probably be super useful since it's spammable. You seem to be very worried about defense but you are using flamebats? Your whole concept of the WD seems very warped, I dunno...
check it: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ZcikYe!dWY!aaZYaa
why can't something like that be viable? melee confusion, hp/mp regenerating easy-to-cast damaging spell, hard(i consider zombie wall hard) and soft crowd control, and an escape tool. Seems like a pretty efficient machine that can kite all day to me
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Since the synergy is so good, I favored spamming blizzard over a harder-hitting blizzard, hence the gold familiar. Alabaster nova is overkill, but crimson seems super good for this build as does gold, which could keep everything locked down nearly all the time for really dense packs of mobs to blizzard.
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1. Haunt(Crimson): This is not a dps build and you will be fairly squishy to melee. Haunt with crimson will allow you to stay mobile while keeping up some pressure and keeping your health topped off. With passives, this spell will cost ~138 mana and regen ~276 mana over 10 secs, effectively giving you infinite mana alongside Spirit Barrage.
2. Spirit Barrage(Crimson): This serves as your supplemental dps whenever when either all your targets are Haunted or you are going for a kill. The damage isn't great, but if your opponents are properly controlled, it should be enough. Like Haunt, crimson rune makes Barrage a heal which I suspect will make the WD very durable when used together. Also like Haunt, Barrage combined with Rush of Essence effectively gives you infinite mana, which is convenient because you might want to be dumping lots of mana into your next skill.
3. Zombie Wall(Indigo): Maybe I am assuming too much, but I think Zombie Wall with double width rune will be incredibly strong. It is a little expensive, but it is spammable and has countless uses on both offence and defense, and the cost should be easy do manage as long as you are weaving in enough spirit spells. The utility of this ability really depends on how certain escape mechanics will operate against it. I'm assuming Leap Attack and Tele can overcome the wall, but abilities like Vault and Dashing Strike may not. Either way it will have tons of uses, though you will have to be careful no to create your own death trap and wall yourself in for 5 secs only to have a Barb leap on top of you.
4. Hex(Alabaster): Apparently the shaman hexes twice during it's life but I'm not quite sure how it will be normalized or how targeting will work. Either way, this should be a fantastic offensive disable, especially with alabaster rune pushing the damage bonus up to 90%!
5. Horrify(Alabaster): Fears are always great mechanics and Horrify is no exception. Alabaster rune enhances it's effectiveness as an escape tool and allows you to quickly get back to your dps target while you trying to chain CC another target. Horrify should be saved for melee attackers if there are any on the opposing team.
6. Spirit Walk(Alabaster): With alabaster rune, Spirit walk is the ultimate responsive escape tool. 3 seconds of vanish is all you will need considering you will come out of it with an extra 48# health. SW can also set up some nasty Horrifies.
Passives-
1. Death Trance: This is your insurance policy meant to buy you enough time to Spirit Walk if you are getting focused and disabled
2. Pierce Through the Veil: The 30% mana cost increase is actually a buff when combined with Rush of Essence and although damage is not your focus, your damage does translate into health, so +20% damage is crucial.
3. Rush of Essence: Obviously a backbone passive for this build, allowing you to cast as many damaging spells as you please, and fueling as many zombie walls as you see fit.
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