DiabloFans

Quote from Indimix

The end result of how it works right now the "item end-game" of Diablo 3 and my idea of an improved and customized MF would be the same in terms of time to get your perfect gear. The only difference is, that the process of getting your gear would be enjoyable.

That's what I've said that JKlimek was missing the point.

Basically, what my idea does, is to change the AH for a mechanism which behaves similarly, but it makes you work for it. The result is (or I think it would be) farming for gear, specific gear, instead of buying it from the AH like 90+% of players do.

No, it would make it FASTER. If that's what you want, to get to the last items as fast as you can, then I guess you're right, doing so would make that more "enjoyable." Personally, I enjoy the hunt more than having the end items.

As far as I can tell, you're saying the problem is you never find good items, and the only way to fix this would be to make the better items more common (by, in your case, by fixing your most important affix). Doing this WOULD increase the chances you'd find something you need, but like I have said before, eventually you will then just get to the point where it takes forever to find an improvement, even with a fixed affix, because everything basically needs a perfect roll, and you'll either be bored by then, or be back here complaining about the other, unrelated, issues.

Quote from Indimix

Just as an example, when I've heard about the zero CD dog sacrifice WD build I thought: "nice!, I'll give it a try!". Turns out, that you need like 3 different legendaries with the proper affixes plus some other quite expensive pieces of gear to achieve that. As a no AH user, that is impossible to get, because, you cant farm for something specific, because the MF works in a incompatible way.

Of course this problem only happen when you have a poor itemization in conjunction with not too many choices of viable skills combinations.

Just to say, this happened in Diablo 2 as well (I believe Hammerdins were very gear heavy, I never had enough gear to make it work, so I never ran one and am unsure). The only ways around this particular issue (that I can think of) is either make it so easy that medicore gear can run almost any build, make items and builds independent, or just make the best gear really common. You're idea goes the "make the best gear common" route. Which causes the game to become easier.

Quote from Goriki

The question, which comes to my mind is...
How exactly do you play it?

You need to move around...so one analog stick is used for that
You got 6 skills...you can use the X, square, circle, triangle, R1, R2 for this for example
You have a potion...L1
(of course you can switch it around to have left/right handed support fully implemented...right analog stick+d-pad + L1, L2 for skills and R1 with potion)

Ok...but in which direction do you fire the arrow? A friend of me had the idea to have one button as an equivalent to shift...L2 is left, so lets take this
So normally you shoot your skill in the direction you are facing. But you can press L2 and aim with the analog stick you used for moving. Problem solved.

If someone could answer me, how to place a sentry gun? Cast a Heroic Leap, Wave of Light, Plague of Toads, Acid Cloud, Grasp of the Dead, Wall of Zombies, Slow Time, Teleport, Hydra, Blizzard, Meteor?
All those skills are not casted into a direction, but onto a location. How do I select this location on the screen, while running? Use the second analog stick? But how do i push the skill buttons when i have both thumbs on the analog sticks?

I don't own a PS3 and only played some games with friends, so I don't know how other games solve the problem of the missing mouse input...so please enlighten me

In my opinion the mouse is essential for playing Diablo...you can have trillions of buttons for skills, but i want to point on a location on the screen before using a skill

edit: clarified the left/right-handed part

You're also forgetting perhaps the most important action - picking up items. The reduced precision of the controller means they basically have to add a dedicated button and use the second mouse button as a cursor. Think how terrible it is to pick up items that aren't in storage in FO3 or Skyrim. Alternatly they would just auto pick up.

I, personally, am very skeptical that this game will be even remotely fun on a console, just because SO much of the skills are designed around area placement.


Anyway, as to why people are so upset about the idea that the game was designed for consoles (I don't think it was, but I won't bother with why, it's been said many times above) is because either A) They think of consoles as lesser, they think that being designed for console means it must be dumbed down, or C) they need a reason to justify they don't like the game, and they won't accept that just maybe other people wanted the game to be different from them (no, Blizzard must have been purposely gimping the game so it would work on consoles).


As a change of speed, how many skills can you use in PoE? When I tried it, I only saw the 7 (or was it 8) options, M1, 2, 3, and 1 through 4 or 5. I don't remember anyone complaining that PoE was designed for consoles.

Quote from Indimix

Yeah, the thing is, this need of having the required affixes when you ID an item, is because... if not, the item is useless.

For example:

- boots without MS? -> trash
- helm, weapon, chest, legs without sockets? -> trash
- amulets that are not at least trifecta? -> trash
and the list goes on...

In the current system, a way to sort of fix at least one affix would improve the fun when you ID any item.

Just to give an example why some things in Diablo 2 were better designed, the armor chest Enigma, it didn't have the best stats, however you could blink.

The item is useless because you're at the point where only an ammy with a trifecta is useful. As an example, I would love a good weapon w/o a socket for my WD. Why? because he's only lvl 60, and only at the beginning of Inferno (or maybe act 2, I forget if I beat Act 1 with my Monk or my WD). You're just confusing the matter by combining two things you dislike and implying they are linked (the time to ID and the fact that you have such high gear that you need near perfect to improve).

Quote from Jaetch

Well... it is a kind of solution, but I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary.

Sure, I get a little upset when I find a 1100 DPS sword with 300 dexterity but... bonus Magic Missile damage. Or a Mara's Kaleidoscope with 200 intelligence and... bonus Frenzy damage.

I'd like those types of combinations to never meet (as in if the game sees the Mara's roll a barb bonus affix, it automatically rejects dexterity and intelligence and lets the Mara's roll strength), but I don't really support "rigging" affixes for drops you get in-game from killing monsters and opening treasure chests. I like the mystery. Rigging crafting recipes are enough, in my opinion.

I agree, it would be nice if they limited certain combination, aka when they have items/affixes that are intended for a set type of character, than the main affixes should be useful for that goal (so, it's not that a sword with +magix missile can't have Dex, it's just that it should have MORE int). I guess they decided that random should mean 100% random.

Quote from Indimix

JKlimek, you are missing the point here.

So I guess I'm missing the point too, cause I agree with him. Unless you meant the Enigma thing.

Quote from Indimix

What if I told you, that you could invest MPo™ and make it so every time an Archon Gauntlet drops on the floor it has a fixed affix, wouldn't be great?...

Here's my point. It would be nice the first time. And probably the second and third. BUT pretty soon I wouldn't just need an Archon Gauntlet with one fixed affix, I'd need it with 3, 4, or 5. Why? Well, lets say I decided the #1 would be +int. I roll one with good int, +damage, and +chc. Now, if I want a better one, I need great rolls. Then perfect. Then I have no more reason to look for items cause I can't improve at all. So, the first time you found one, yay! upgrade. But, pretty quickly, even find an Archon Gauntlet has a tiny chance to be good, and you're back where you started. See my point? Doing this would not alleviate the issue of taking time to ID an item that has little to no chance of being good, it would just push it a few (or a few hundred) hours out.

Yeah, I don't think this would fix that at all (assuming I understand you). All you seem to be doing is increasing the chance you find an item you want. Which means A) unless you increase the chances by a HUGE amount, the tiny tiny chance that what you want is now doubled or trippled (think 0.001% going to 0.003%) and if you DO increase the chances you find what you want enough so that it makes a big difference, then you'll find everything you want, until you get bored, or an upgrade that you want is now so rare (cause you are so close to the perfect possible roll) that it is 0.001%.

But as to changing MF, I, personally, think they should just drop it off items, and increase the basic rate by whatever that % was. Sure, maybe keep it on NV, but I'm not thrilled by the idea of having it on items. I was thrilled when they said they were trying the game without it.

That all said, I'm not saying this would be a bad system, but I don't think it would work for your stated objective of IDing a bunch of rares.

1) By vast majority of the community, I believe you mean a bunch of threads on the noturiously whiny b.net forums? Cause I sure don't care. It takes very little time. I would much rather they put this effort towards something else, like say #2.
2) Agreed. They've stated they're looking at this, I think it was one of the AMA's. No clue when this will happen. However, the reason why they did this is part of the reason why they have you "unwrap" an item, the anticipation (which I think is actually heightened by the lack of useful yellows, it's that gamblers high which you won't get if you always win).
3) Same as above, plus they want people to feel they invested in it. Also, the time is part of the investment.

All that said, yes they could probably fix these rather easily. However, something a lot of people forget is that every easy fix takes time away from something else. Something one finds in any production environment is nothing happens in a vacum. Yes, it is easy to fix by itself, BUT they have to weigh that time against all sorts of other stuff, and whether it's worth it or not to do so. Plus, I'm sure if they did fix it, there'd be other people complaining about how now they don't get that anticipation, just like there were people complaining about how you don't need scrolls, or Cain, to ID anymore. Same with the crafting items, people are going to start whining about how someone is mass crafting high level items and flooding the market or some such.

Some thoughts.

To start, to Hiderius - While darker colors (I refuse to say "grittier." It's that thinking that got us nearly a decade of brown shotters) would be nice, I think that's a little lower on the old priority list.

Anyway, to OP
1) I, personally, am not super thrilled about end game. For one, it's limited to small portion of the player base, and less likely to bring people back. For two, it's a one time pay game. It should end at some point, and I think constantly harping on "end game" sets a bad goal for devs of ignoring the leveling and just focusing on what a small portion of the game. Not that I'd say no to an endless dungeon or lane defense of some sort (assuming it properly scales for those who aren't the best of the best).

1a) I would rather see additions to incentivize rerolling new characters. Maybe one of those prestige reset options that starts you back off at zero, but with some ePeen meter increase and/or some stat increase (so you'll have a stronger lvl 60 when you get back there). Or maybe certain crafting items are only possible to drop the first time you beat Diablo on each difficulty.

2) You are correct itemization is the problem, but I'm not so sure it's the items that are the issue. I think it's more that all the characters mechanics are too similiar. In D2, the reason why Sorc's and Necs didn't all want the same gear as the others is because their damage was derived from the skill points, not the weapons (okay, everyone's was, but at least the other's was a little more based on weapons). Anyway, I think the game needs to go more like that. Perhaps WD and Wiz's do not obtain any increased damage from weapon damage, it's all from int, CHC, and CHD, and add +skill points to items? Or even just increase the occurance and strength of the +mana regen for WD (say, instead of the VQ build everyone ran back in the day, people would have less damage, but a massive +regen allowing constant spamming) and -AP cost for Wiz. Additional tweaks such as this could be made to other characters (say, DH and Monk get a passive increase to CHD, making CHC more important, and Barb get's a passive increase to base damage, making that more important). The actual change would be simple, the bitch would be in balance (which is why any and all item changes should be slow).

2a) Skills - I think you're not annoyed with player diversity (players use the most effective builds, just like the cookie cutter builds in D2). You're annoyed with lack of effective builds and lack of player ownership in their characters. The first they're working on. The second, I have no clue how to fix (and it seems you feel the same way) because it's so hard to avoid what happened in D2, making a handful of cookie cutter builds that if you deviated from at all, you gimped your character. The only things I can think of is either picking things that define how you play, like a WD picking CC vs pets vs poison vs AA. Possibly the other idea just general skill points, but attach the respec skill to something difficult, like saying running a special dungeon that's scaled to your character.

3) There are two problems with the AH, imo. One is that it makes it too easy to find the exact type of item you want (cause there are thousands of players posting) and Two - all items are recyclable - if you buy it on the AH, you'll probably put it back when you're doing. The first one can't be corrected for with the AH as is. The second...maybe. Perhaps BoA is the way, or perhaps cause items to wear some every time they go on the AH, so they actually get used to the point they are gone. Perhaps if they add a second AH that doesn't wear items, but is a trade house (you put up what you have, and a general idea of what you want, and people bid on it).

As per the rest of your post:
1) I agree two more heroes would be great. I personally hope for a Templar/Paladin strength type and something...else. I don't know what they're missing other than that first suggestion.

2) I agree, more gem types (diamond and skulls, at least), plus more effects (shields add resist perhaps, or boots add speed or some such).

3) My problem with enchantment is it ends up feeling as something that has to be done, but will end up being worthless 9/10 times. I'd rather they go to the charm/talisman idea. If we really want to add to items, then make it so that the effect is changed based not just as what is in/on the talisman, but what item it's mounted on (gloves add ias or chc; shield add resist or block; helm adds mf, gf, or exp; sword adds damage, ls, or CHD; etc).

4) More followers would be great. What would be better is an option to stop their chatter after we've heard X number of times. That leads me to something else - an option to skip all story beats (that wait for the scoundrel to open the gates around that farm).

5) While some things need to be in place (otherwise the damage vs ehp imbalance from the game itself limits what you can do) I disagree that it needs to be balanced. D2 got plenty of play without any balancing. The fundamental issue here is you have a different goal for PvP. They want it to be a fun diversion tha tpeople do everyone once in awhile. You seem to think they have to turn it into something closer to an eSport to be any fun. While you're ideas here would be fun, I'd rather they focus on the PvE side, as they can only do so much.

Quote from Indimix

One thing that I think it shows completely that this game wasn't tested properly, is that pets (before the vitality inheritance buff) in inferno were one shotted by a white mob, in act 1. Let alone act 2 or 3.

That, is just really poor testing, or devs didn't care about that happening.

And there are endless examples like that one.

This is not a mindless rant, this is as simple as:

- Tester 1, Witch Doctor testing inferno: pets are useless.
- Tester 1: Hey devs, pet are useless, please buff them somehow, they are being one-shotted.
- Devs: Done, try now.

Yes, it is that simple, there is no magic, or complicated quantum mechanic going on, just some simple math.

Maybe I'm just off my rocker here, but I thought Blizzard themselves addressed these kind of issues in Inferno, when they said they made it so hard they could just barely beat it, and then doubled it. They purposely made it so hard they couldn't test it, therefore, they didn't (couldn't) test it. For some reason I have this crazy idea that Blizzard said at some point that Inferno was supposed to be the challenge for the super hardcore, the people who 300+ hours. But it seems I'm just taking crazy pills, cause so many other people thought the game was terrible cause they couldn't beat Inferno easily. Which is maybe why we're getting easier games, cause if it's too hard, people whine much more loudly then if it's too easy

Quote from Indimix

Quote time:

1 - For a lot of players, what makes fun playing Diablo 3 is finding loot in a regular basis. So, if you have a character that is paragon 90, and you are tired of playing that character, or just want to play a different one for a change, you will find out that your items wont drop nearly as often as they used to be. And, like I've already said, this is a loot hunting game, if you find 1 legendary per 7 runs or 2 per run, it could mean a no-go for your low level paragon character. Is not about efficienty, is about fun, I find fun finding items, if a character has a serious handicap over another.. I will think twice before I do the switch. And I think a lot of players think the same.

2 - I'm not quite well geared, not even close, I find from time to time an update, but is very odd even without using the AH. What I've described was that I find that the experience didn't change a bit, taking into account the latests additions.

3 - Nothing to say, just a problem that is a ghost that will go away maybe in a few years.

4 - And again.. is not about efficiency.. is about fun. I'd love to change the scenario and go play Act 1, but guess what, the mob density there is do low that my item drop rate gets cut by 4. Again, finding loot -> fun, not finding loot -> not fun. See the difference?.

5 - I don't care about history or rants.. I just see that I'd rather have to pick up 10 rares that I know they have a real potential to be an upgrade rather than that having to identify 100 that I know that their potential to become an upgrade is almost 0. This item is about the lack of excitement when you pick items from the floor, it shouldn't be like that, and a possible fix is the one I suggested. The current situation is depressing.


And when I said that about the selling unidentified items, I've never said it was a gamebreaking problem, but God is in the details you know. A well designed game take cares of things like that before it even hits the market, or maybe, in a hot patch 2 weeks later. Months passed since then...

Another think I've noticed, is interesting how when I say things in a... let say, arrogant way, I'm automatically wrong in everything I've said, come on Zero, I expected more from you.

If you enjoy finding upgrades, wouldn't starting a new character be good? For one, you can get a different play experience. For two, you're now way at the bottom of the item pool, so you should find lots of upgrades, right?

And it's not that you're wrong cause you're arrogant. You're wrong because A) you state your opinion as fact, according to Zero, you seem to have stated this opinion lots (I usually don't read these threads, so I can't back that up from my experience), C) because other people who agree with you seem to post lots more qq threads then people who disagree, the automatic response is usually more disinterested then what would be if you were bringing something new to the party, and D) I'm pretty sure you ARE wrong when you state things like "Blizzard obvious doesn't care" because they ARE changing things (but you seem to have missed it cause you don't care about the patch history).

Quote from wayne007

patch was a joke the pvp on POE is ten times better and account bound finds are no good. just seen they even took away the tradable Demonic ess. i was selling that 30 DE for a million and it was fun farming now nothing lol big FAIL

That's cause the PvP they gave was not what they've been working on for the last 8 months. They purposely kept it simple so they new they could get it out. PoE probably had it's PvP as a major design goal during development.

And the demonic essence thing is because people have been whining about the AH since the begining of time, so they're trying to get people off it.

See, I don't really get how 5 million is really *that* big a deterent. I mean, unless they just buy it off the RMAH, it takes 3 Radiant Star Gems PLUS 20 mill gold PLUS 10 Demonic Essences. Players who can afford that can probably afford that 5 million for the limited occasion changing (which is what replacing a Nat's Chest with a better one probably would be). However, they probably can't afford to do it how Blizz doesn't want them too - build one and just pass it around their characters.

Of course, those people buying and selling items in the 1E9+ gold range probably don't care about a piddly little 5 mil, but they can probably afford to make more than one in that case.

I too stopped earlier, but not cause of the audio (although I agree, don't try and eat the mic). I stopped cause you recommended having 10-20 million, as the minimum. Maybe it's true for lvl 60 legendaries, but I don't even have anything CLOSE to that.

Also, just a little advice that I give because not following it is a pet peeve (so, follow as you will). But, prevent your videos from following the wadsworth constant. So, don't have the video just sit with no audio, don't have a long intro, and where my real pet peeve comes in - don't take a long time trying to explain what you're showing/why it's important (unless you do some sort of series where the topic varies). Your video up there you don't need to say you're showing people how to make money (it's in the title) or that you could flip items on the AH or grind (the or grind should be obvious, the flipping AH is either in the title or the description, although a REAL brief explaination of the AH might fit, just don't linger).

So, you might start with "Hi, I'm *name* and today I'll show you how to make money in Diablo 3."

The summary at a beginning of a paper/video/presentation is needed, IMO, when someone is skimming through a whole bunch (such as looking through a news blog). I figure most youtube videos are watched because someone got a link (this article), they searched for the topic, or they follow the person (say, following Krip or Husky). In those cases you either new what you were getting, or wanted to watch anyway. Plus, if they're stupid, watch the first 20 seconds, then comment "I stopped watching cause I don't know what this video is about" then they already watched (a view) and commented. Both of which are good for youtube channels.

Someways yes, someways no.

Some of the D2 itemization coming back would be great, but only if done properly. For example, bringing back RW's, exactly as it was, would be terrible. It makes BiS items that aren't just BiS for a class/build, but BiS, pretty much period (Engima, I'm looking at you). Don't get me wrong, there will probably always be a handful of items that are generally BiS, but the RW where just stupid, course that could be cause the duping made it feasible for everyone even half way dedicated could get one. Anyway, if they limited it so RW's would make a bad item decent, decent great, and great BiS, maybe.

Same thing with Charms. Limit them so it's not a "fill the inventory with them." Maybe reuse that talisman idea so you can only use a handful of charms, and/or make them interact so you have to chose (and not chose as in, I'll replace this cold res with a better cold res, but, "do I want off, def? If I take Off, do I want IAS/CHC/CD or +Damage/stun?").

As much as I liked Whimsyshire, I would like to see a return of the cows, at least a little, just cause at this point they are incredibly classic.

There are other things that I don't want back. The skill system/attribute system, for example. I don't really like how easy it was to gimp your character. It was, IMO, unfriendly and created unnecessary grief. I'm not saying that D3 system maybe doesn't go too far (I do enjoy the "build you're own character" idea), but I think it's poor design that you basically needed a FAQ otherwise you weren't going to make it out of NM. Same thing with the attributes. You either didn't have a plan, and you gimped your character, or you had a plan, and could basically set out the optimal progression at the get go. If they do include anything like this, I would prefer it be more like regular RPGs (Fallout/TES immediately comes to mind) where you build it at the get go, and use it to define what kind of class you will play. That said, I have no clue how that could be combined with their current design goal of letting people try different things.

I am also glad they took the art direction that the game does not have to be visual dark (as in low light) to be thematically dark. What I played of PoE (and if it's spaced like Diablo, with it's 3.5 acts, I played about half), they made that mistake, and it was some of the most boring visuals I've seen outside the "brown is gritty" MMS genre.

Quote from Jaetch

Solo or power level via friend?

I recommend you get a friend to help power level you. You can easily go 1-60 in about two hours if you run ruby Cain's set with either Leoric's or Hellfire all on MP10.

Just have your friend drag you into Normal Act III, repeat Crater and Keep 2 until level 25, then kill Diablo to unlock Nightmare, have aforementioned friend drag you into NM Act III, repeat as before until level 50, kill Diablo to unlock Hell, repeat on Hell mode until 60.

A little off topic, but how exactly does said friend drag you to Act 3? Doesn't said friend actually have to beat each quest in a row?

As the title says, which one is the least dependent hero in HC? I'm looking to level several at once to share gear, and I'm not sure which is best to be my front runner, who won't have as good a gear.

Thoughts?

Quote from Tuskrat

The "always online" DRM that game companies seem to be pushing will hurt the industry if it is not used on the correct type of game. MMO's are a great place to use an "always online" DRM system because the internet is required for gameplay. However, consoles don't really have popular MMO's, but mostly multiplayer or single player. As an example, Diablo III was a poor choice for that same type of "always online" DRM because.... internet connectivity is not required for the single player component of the game. Case in point:

• If my internet connection is poor because I am stationed in Afghanistan, then I am now unable to log in and play the single player version of Diablo III.

The absurd amount of units D3 would beg to differ. Steam sales would beg to differ (yes, I know it technically has an offline mode, but it's crap, AND all the sales it gets from straight downloading.

Tl;Dr : Things that are sold as entertainment products should not have DRM systems that require "always online" mode if it removes a layer of convenience, prevents proper enjoyment of the product, or makes the product more expensive.

To be clear, I do agree with this part. Which is why I don't purchase always online DRM games (note, I don't call D3's always online as DRM cause I see it as dupe/hack prevention, which I FULLY support, given the stupidity of Diablo 2 the last few years). I also refused to purchase steam games for along time for the same reason, until I bought my first boxed game that forced me to play it through steam. And I gave up, cause my protest already lost.

I also plan to avoid buying the new xbox if tries to push this always online, no backwards compatibility, single console use only BS.

Quote from AlamarCurse

Quote from Rodan

*snip*

So much stupid, and so many jerks... Not the OP, but many of those responding : )

It's not a bad theory, but disproving it is just as impossible as proving it, so it's kind of moot... Blizzard did indeed claim that AH usage affects the game (design), but I don't recall them specifically stating how...

However, those that use the RMAH frequently (to sell), do indeed get better items (more often) than those that don't.

Your opinions may differ on that, but note one special point. I'm not arguing cause and effect. : )

-Alamar

Yes, and then when the internet explode from that, they went and clarified that it did NOT affect drop rates. So we're back to the OP coming up with a theory after a single data point, which is really about as scientific as foil hats.