I really love your builds, especially the DH hatred generating one, if it works this just proved that you have almost unlimited viable builds.
I was wondering if it would be ok if I borrowed your DH build as an example of a unique build in a post I am writing on the battle.net forum about how the new skill system allows way more customization than the d2 version?
p. s. thanks for the cookie.
Ill send you a pm about this.
Sorry for not posting here much. I have spent most of my time in the DH and monk sub forums beating these builds to death since I tend to get better responses there about them. I am not trying to ignore anyone and I greatly like to have feedback but my attention has shifted greatly in that direction.
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Interesting builds there, the only one I didn't like was the WD, but as you said it's not your favorite of the classes so you probably didn't spend a whole lot of time on it.
Incoming long ass post...
Wizard:
The only issue I really see here is that with disintigrate and meteor (comet) your going to have an issue with AP. Your only way to slow spread out monsters is meteor, but then you won't be able to use Disintigrate as long, which won't be too big of an issue since RoF will also slow, but its something you may want to think about. Frost Nova has no requirement for AP, and would accomplish the same thing, and can be runed to give you more damage. Then again with the Temporal Flux passive, you could change the runestone in meteor to one for more damage and rely on disintigrate to slow your enemies.
I've been on the fence about RoF since they nerfed it. Someone on the b.net forums had a good point about it. While I don't think it's an error since they updated the calculator with the last bit of changes, but it just seems odd to me that RoF would have a 0 cost with a lvl 4 runestone. There are two explanations to this, one being that there are changing the max level of runestones to 4, but idk about that, its a guess and its out of left field so it doesn't seem likely. The other is that it will actually return extra AP beyond level 4, which would substantially raise it's value and give it a good enough reason to be back in my builds after. I just feel like the nerf to it's damage was too extreme, so I went to disintigrate, but I like the use of both a great deal.
Monk:
Good tanking build, I like it. The only thing I didn't really like about it was Alabaster in Breath of Heaven. If your going for a tank like build, you don't want to be sending the enemies running away from you, since threat is done by proximity, you could send a group of monsters right into your other group members causing them to take more damage negating the fact that you just healed them. Other then that though great build. I like Indigo and Crimson for Breath instead though depending on if you need more healing, and if not the damage would be nice. Although obsidian could end up being more damage if it is 12% from everyone not just you.
DH:
I don't really like Hungering Arrow for a PvE build, the runestone that splits it is decent though, it's just that it's utility in PvE is way out done by other options. The chance for it to bounce more than once are really small, and anything more than two is so unlikely that it wouldn't be worth thinking it could even do it. (For PvP its a bit better but it's utility comes from it being a guided shot.) I really like ES because of the "chain" damage. Once the targets are chained together successive shots damage all chained targets, if this holds on release and works with the Chain Gang runestone it's easily the best generator in terms of AoE. Bola Shot with Obsidian could be good if the chance to stun is a chance against all that it damage, not just the initial target, if not it requires more maintainance to match the utility of ES.
As for your crazy no generator build, my initial thought was that it was totally gonna fail. After looking at the full post though, it doesn't seem as bad. I like it. But I have a few concerns. The first, is Rapid Fire. Posts on the other forums from earlier tests said that rapid fire shot at 6 times your normal attack speed, which will drain your hatred pretty quickly. I'm not sure if that is still the case though, and I didn't do the math on how fast that means you'd run our of hatred, so the numbers may show it to not be an issue.
I wonder at the choice for runestone in rapid fire. It mentions an ADDITIONAL chance to pierce, but I see nowhere that it says there is chance to pierce in the first place. So I wonder if it's just an odd choice in phrasing or I'm missing something, I generally really like Rapid Fire, but this would give it a really new level of use if it pierces.
I'm assuming your choice of RoV is because they are guided arrows? If so then okay, but for that much hatred cost, IDK if it will be worthwhile, since you'll have to be really careful about when you use it since your relying on passive regen, I would be more secure using something like Golden with the stun and way higher damage for moments against extremely large groups of mobs.
I'm also assuming companion was sheerly for a bit of added control that does a bit more sustained damage than something like caltrops? In general I really feel like this is another PvP talent, at least runed like you have it, but it seems to work for you since you really need the control with the build you have. All in all though it seems like it will be a really good build at least to start, and will get better as better runestones are attained, I like it.
PS warned you it was a long reply....
Oh I don't mind. I love the input on the builds.
For the wizard you make some good points about AP and the regen from RoF. I did not really think about the rune ranks when putting together the build. Also you mentioned the slow from Meteor. The idea was to have some added AOE output but I can see what you mean with the slows and how there are better options. I'll have to take a look at the build later since I have been mainly focusing on the DH and Monk builds.
Also thanks for the catch with the Monk build. I had not noticed that before. I'll make some changes and post them after I get some of my school work done.
The DH I am a little sorry about the builds. I changed the first build a few times since then and had not actually posted the changes. One of them was what you mentioned with Entangling Shot + Indigo rune. I decided that would be a better generator because of the utility and higher base damage. The no generator build was also changed quite a few times but I never made the changes here because after putting quite a lot of time and work into it I felt it deserved its own post. It does not even use Rapid Fire because there is no way to sustain it... well I should add there is a new way to go about no generator that I did not realize before and I was going to check how long Rapid Fire can be sustained with that particular build.
What about +atk speed on gear? You just wouldnt take any (much)?
Good point but from the numbers you get an extra 20 hatred every 21 seconds that does not get spent. Even if you get enough attack speed to push that out there is a little saving grace that I forgot to mention.
Edit: did the math. If you have a 1.2 speed weapon you get 252 Hatred spent using elemental arrow for the full 21 sec (with rounding). This means you can not take over 9% attack speed bonus or you start to use hatred faster than you generate it. However...
The preparation skill is runed for 21D for the cast at a level 4 rune. At level 4 this build is sustainable but pushing the levels higher, up to the max of 7. I bet the cos will drop to at least 18D (assuming starting at 25D at level 1, 21D at level 4 and 18D at level 7) This than generates the 251H down to every 18 seconds and the hatred cost for 18 seconds to be 217.8 (for Elemental Arrow and 1.1 speed) giving you even more breathing room to play with.
Just did the math for 1.4 speed and you have 252 hatred spent and 251 hatred gained.
To get 1.4 speed you need to have 27.27% attack speed bonus on top of a 1.1 weapon. Seems like quite a large buffer of speeds to me.
Edit: so yes at lower rune values (4-5) I would try to avoid attack speed bonuses higher than 10% but getting to the higher values you do not have to care as much and can start going much more for it. Actually I would say to maximize damage you need to be shooting for very specific values of attack speed to make sure you do not waste hatred! (I will get better numbers for this posted tomorrow when I'm not so tired)
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Going to add this in now. The last DH build, the one with no hatred generators. I do not know if Rapid Fire fires at a faster speed than your attack speed. I do know it scales but I have not been able to figure out how many times per second it fires compared to the average speed. So in lieu of this I will say that skill is up in the air for now and I will come back and change it if I find out otherwise.
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I see many builds being thrown around the forums and I personally thought I should join the fray. After playing the beta, and having prior experience with dungoneering games in general, (anyone remember Gauntlet? ) I have come up with, quite a few, builds that I am going to throw to the wolves to get tested when this comes out. But before I do that I would like to know what others think of them. Remember DPS aint everything if you die!
Also there is a special treat build that I have not seen before (at least in a "I can prove it works" fashion). One using absolutely no hatred generators and it remains completely viable to sustain DPS without relying on RNG to get crits.
~~
To start off will be the monk. What a wonderful class I have found this to be. Regardless of how much I like it I still have problems building something I like without having any doubts.
The first build is something of a quite powerful tanking build. It is designed for multiplayer PvE with a high focus on dodge and crit. Preferably you are the only melee in the party because most of the dps comes from damage back mechanics. Starting with Cyclone Strike and Serenity insures you have the tanking ability to survive the initial amount of high damage while still being able to dish out damage of your own. Following that up with the Rune on the mantra and the passive for dodge this build can mitigate some serious damage while dishing it back out as well.
I have two other monk builds but they are very typical builds and I will not bore anyone with the details.
~~
Wizard. A class I thought I would dislike but it has grown on me. Much more than the monk has at least. In all honesty the monk is loosing its luster to the Wizard and the DH as time goes on.
I have two builds I love. The first is a very "turret" happy build. The idea is to use disintegrate on everything. To go along with the theme the move that pairs up nicely with it would be Ray of Frost acting as a signature spell from the gem. The build in general does two things well, single target and line AOE. For general AOE purposes there is obviously Comet(that can be changed out for blizzard or arcane barrage). To mitigate the loss of armor from Glass Cannon I put in Arcane Armor and to top it off teleport (who doesn't love porting?)
The second build is another one of those interesting ones. I guess I can say it is the "challenge mode" wizard. The idea is because of the gem on disintegrate the wizard is forced into closer range. So for good measure Diamond Armor and Archon are used with AOE runes on them and Wave of Force is taken because of its high damage potential along with utility purposes. The utilities were also chosen with surviveability in mind. ofc Energy Armor was also a must for this one.
WD, well there is not much I can say. Kinda like the class but kinda don't. Have a funny build though. Should I rune ALL THE SPELLS for healing? (purely interested in what your reaction is when you see it)
DH. The class you probably came here to see because of the title. Obviously this has become my favorite class or else why would I leave it to the end? Regardless lets get to this.
Rockets... what can I say? I love the idea and the graphic looked cool at blizzcon so I'm all for them. I don't like grenades though, and for those of you not in the know there is a passive that make them synergize quite nicely with a Explosive Shot. Regardless here is the build. Shadow Power is fun but discipline is already being spent on Sentry and Vault (because of a lack of slows) so it had to be cut. The standard AOE (multi shot) and single target (rapid fire) are both there along with the big DPS CD. I thought about what hatred generator to use and it really is an open option that I am still on the fence about so suggestions would be wonderful.
Now for the typical "hurp durp DH build" I do have to add though that it does have a little bit of a difference. There is no vault or avoidance because of rune on Elemental Arrow. The idea was to keep at least most of them slowed between using Rapid Fire or Seeking Arrow.
Ahh time for the build that made me want to post this thread in the first place. Please note there is a decent amount of theroycrafting to this one. Much more than the others. There will be math.
That is the build. Now you are thinking "what the hell am I looking at?" Well I will tell you. DH as two resource systems. From what we know right now they cap at 125 and 30 and generate at 4 and 1 per second respectively. The build is based around Preparation and the rune it has and the passive to increase max Hatred.
Now assume you go into the fight with 0 Hatred and only 21 Discipline (the amount to cast preparation) and start off by casting prep. After 21 more seconds you have enough Discipline to cast prep once again to get your hatred back. So let's see exactly how much hatred you get every 21 seconds.
With a passive 4 Hatred per sec for 21 seconds you get 84 Hatred. Add that to the 175 from prep and we are gaining 251H every 21 seconds! Most DH would look at this and say "well this is not enough to sustain me!" Well I have come to tell you that you are wrong.
While using a crossbow (most of you should know this is 1.1 attacks per second) you use less Hatred over time than with any other combination. So knowing this and after doing the math using a move like Elemental Arrow or Rapid Fire a DH uses 231H over those 21 seconds! So over 21 seconds your net total is a GAIN of 20H. This means you can still use armor that increases your attack speed and still have the hatred generation to support these attacks.
Thus this build is completely able to sustain its DPS as long as your main weapon is 1.1 speed!
Edit: If you made it this far I applaud you and give you a cookie <3
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Ill send you a pm about this.
Sorry for not posting here much. I have spent most of my time in the DH and monk sub forums beating these builds to death since I tend to get better responses there about them. I am not trying to ignore anyone and I greatly like to have feedback but my attention has shifted greatly in that direction.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
Oh I don't mind. I love the input on the builds.
For the wizard you make some good points about AP and the regen from RoF. I did not really think about the rune ranks when putting together the build. Also you mentioned the slow from Meteor. The idea was to have some added AOE output but I can see what you mean with the slows and how there are better options. I'll have to take a look at the build later since I have been mainly focusing on the DH and Monk builds.
Also thanks for the catch with the Monk build. I had not noticed that before. I'll make some changes and post them after I get some of my school work done.
The DH I am a little sorry about the builds. I changed the first build a few times since then and had not actually posted the changes. One of them was what you mentioned with Entangling Shot + Indigo rune. I decided that would be a better generator because of the utility and higher base damage. The no generator build was also changed quite a few times but I never made the changes here because after putting quite a lot of time and work into it I felt it deserved its own post. It does not even use Rapid Fire because there is no way to sustain it... well I should add there is a new way to go about no generator that I did not realize before and I was going to check how long Rapid Fire can be sustained with that particular build.
You can find it here http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34341-no-hatred-generators/
Sorry for not updating the DH builds right away I seem to have a huge lack of time these days :x
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Sorry had to fix that table.
Good point but from the numbers you get an extra 20 hatred every 21 seconds that does not get spent. Even if you get enough attack speed to push that out there is a little saving grace that I forgot to mention.
Edit: did the math. If you have a 1.2 speed weapon you get 252 Hatred spent using elemental arrow for the full 21 sec (with rounding). This means you can not take over 9% attack speed bonus or you start to use hatred faster than you generate it. However...
The preparation skill is runed for 21D for the cast at a level 4 rune. At level 4 this build is sustainable but pushing the levels higher, up to the max of 7. I bet the cos will drop to at least 18D (assuming starting at 25D at level 1, 21D at level 4 and 18D at level 7) This than generates the 251H down to every 18 seconds and the hatred cost for 18 seconds to be 217.8 (for Elemental Arrow and 1.1 speed) giving you even more breathing room to play with.
Just did the math for 1.4 speed and you have 252 hatred spent and 251 hatred gained.
To get 1.4 speed you need to have 27.27% attack speed bonus on top of a 1.1 weapon. Seems like quite a large buffer of speeds to me.
Edit: so yes at lower rune values (4-5) I would try to avoid attack speed bonuses higher than 10% but getting to the higher values you do not have to care as much and can start going much more for it. Actually I would say to maximize damage you need to be shooting for very specific values of attack speed to make sure you do not waste hatred! (I will get better numbers for this posted tomorrow when I'm not so tired)
h-o-p-e-s.net
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Sorry had to fix that table.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
Also there is a special treat build that I have not seen before (at least in a "I can prove it works" fashion). One using absolutely no hatred generators and it remains completely viable to sustain DPS without relying on RNG to get crits.
~~
To start off will be the monk. What a wonderful class I have found this to be. Regardless of how much I like it I still have problems building something I like without having any doubts.
The first build is something of a quite powerful tanking build. It is designed for multiplayer PvE with a high focus on dodge and crit. Preferably you are the only melee in the party because most of the dps comes from damage back mechanics. Starting with Cyclone Strike and Serenity insures you have the tanking ability to survive the initial amount of high damage while still being able to dish out damage of your own. Following that up with the Rune on the mantra and the passive for dodge this build can mitigate some serious damage while dishing it back out as well.
http://us.battle.net...XQSb!ZWV!YYacaZ
I have two other monk builds but they are very typical builds and I will not bore anyone with the details.
~~
Wizard. A class I thought I would dislike but it has grown on me. Much more than the monk has at least. In all honesty the monk is loosing its luster to the Wizard and the DH as time goes on.
I have two builds I love. The first is a very "turret" happy build. The idea is to use disintegrate on everything. To go along with the theme the move that pairs up nicely with it would be Ray of Frost acting as a signature spell from the gem. The build in general does two things well, single target and line AOE. For general AOE purposes there is obviously Comet(that can be changed out for blizzard or arcane barrage). To mitigate the loss of armor from Glass Cannon I put in Arcane Armor and to top it off teleport (who doesn't love porting?)
http://us.battle.net...mQOi!YZd!bZZYcY
The second build is another one of those interesting ones. I guess I can say it is the "challenge mode" wizard. The idea is because of the gem on disintegrate the wizard is forced into closer range. So for good measure Diamond Armor and Archon are used with AOE runes on them and Wave of Force is taken because of its high damage potential along with utility purposes. The utilities were also chosen with surviveability in mind. ofc Energy Armor was also a must for this one.
http://us.battle.net...cVmQ!SUd!caZaaY
~~
WD, well there is not much I can say. Kinda like the class but kinda don't. Have a funny build though. Should I rune ALL THE SPELLS for healing? (purely interested in what your reaction is when you see it)
http://us.battle.net...gejU!UVe!cYaYca
~~~
DH. The class you probably came here to see because of the title. Obviously this has become my favorite class or else why would I leave it to the end? Regardless lets get to this.
Rockets... what can I say? I love the idea and the graphic looked cool at blizzcon so I'm all for them. I don't like grenades though, and for those of you not in the know there is a passive that make them synergize quite nicely with a Explosive Shot. Regardless here is the build. Shadow Power is fun but discipline is already being spent on Sentry and Vault (because of a lack of slows) so it had to be cut. The standard AOE (multi shot) and single target (rapid fire) are both there along with the big DPS CD. I thought about what hatred generator to use and it really is an open option that I am still on the fence about so suggestions would be wonderful.
http://us.battle.net...SXjd!ZVS!YYcccb
Now for the typical "hurp durp DH build" I do have to add though that it does have a little bit of a difference. There is no vault or avoidance because of rune on Elemental Arrow. The idea was to keep at least most of them slowed between using Rapid Fire or Seeking Arrow.
http://us.battle.net...lXTU!hVY!YZYYbZ
Ahh time for the build that made me want to post this thread in the first place. Please note there is a decent amount of theroycrafting to this one. Much more than the others. There will be math.
Edited(had the wrong link sorry guys)http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#SVlXTk!hVb!aZYYZZ
That is the build. Now you are thinking "what the hell am I looking at?" Well I will tell you. DH as two resource systems. From what we know right now they cap at 125 and 30 and generate at 4 and 1 per second respectively. The build is based around Preparation and the rune it has and the passive to increase max Hatred.
Now assume you go into the fight with 0 Hatred and only 21 Discipline (the amount to cast preparation) and start off by casting prep. After 21 more seconds you have enough Discipline to cast prep once again to get your hatred back. So let's see exactly how much hatred you get every 21 seconds.
With a passive 4 Hatred per sec for 21 seconds you get 84 Hatred. Add that to the 175 from prep and we are gaining 251H every 21 seconds! Most DH would look at this and say "well this is not enough to sustain me!" Well I have come to tell you that you are wrong.
While using a crossbow (most of you should know this is 1.1 attacks per second) you use less Hatred over time than with any other combination. So knowing this and after doing the math using a move like Elemental Arrow or Rapid Fire a DH uses 231H over those 21 seconds! So over 21 seconds your net total is a GAIN of 20H. This means you can still use armor that increases your attack speed and still have the hatred generation to support these attacks.
Thus this build is completely able to sustain its DPS as long as your main weapon is 1.1 speed!
Edit: If you made it this far I applaud you and give you a cookie <3
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Sorry had to fix that table.