1. Yes, I didn't incorrect word what I was saying. Its not my opinion either, its a factual statement. I thought I explained it well enough but I guess I need to type the #'s out so theres less confusion. Shadow Power's Night Bane rune effect gives 60 hatred at the cost of 20 (or my build's case, 16) discipline. Preparation's Punishment effect restores ALL of your hatred at the same cost of 20 (or 16) discipline. The sole factor I was comparing the two skills and their rune effect was to determine which is a better hatred regenerator, and Preparation is factually superior in this regard. So yes, in this case, Shadow Power is "virtually useless" to me.
2. Considering I know more about my gaming "skills" than you do, I'd say its fair to say you're making quite the assumption as to what I'll need to survive. And yes, just to humor you, I have read the speculation (in fact, I'm one of the advocates for hoping Inferno punishes players severely), watched that doctored video on "you will die," and no, I don't plan on getting hit much. If there were ladders I would be one of the people towards the top in the HC side.
3. In case you didn't notice, I referenced and provided a link to Azuresky's thread about not using hatred generators THREE posts above yours...
1. Shadow Power gives 45 hatred (just to play devils advocate) so your point would stand even more if it wasn't false. Which regens the most hatred and which is best are 2 separate things. 'Better' is personal choice because it relies on synergy with your build and playstyle, therefore is subjective. Also, re-reading your post you just said "virtually useless", you didn't say "to me". That was probably a typo so fair enough. If you can't use all the hatred then you might be better off taking a lower hatred generator with an added bonus. That possibility is fact. If you can't survive enough to make use of the hatred then you might want shadow power. That possibility is fact. You say you were comparing the two skills as hatred generators, but you have to compare them using all available options. If you won't take it, thats fine, but it isn't very constructive to the community to only say what you would do.
3. Yes I did notice you posted the link, but I didn't feel that you understood some of the points made in that thread.
Shadow Power: Generates 45 hatred over 20 sec. This is now a very powerful option to the DH for this type of build. Because of the 'nerf' to it (used to be 30% attack speed not life drain) it now has a very balanced amount of hatred generated over the time. It is the lowest option but since it now can heal the DH for a substantial amount it is quite powerful in this build.
You can see that by adding any one of these means we will achieve enough hatred regen to support a 1.1 speed build. Some of them, like Prep, have quite a good amount of excesses hatred generated. Knowing this we can bump up our attack speed a little bit and give much more play room when it comes to gear choices.
I still think my point stands. Shadow power opens up some new survival while still allowing hatred regen with Night Bane, or adds damage reduction. We will have to wait and see if you need those and if you do, at what point.
Just to re-iterate. If you have enough disc and therefore hatred, for hatred regen Preperation is the inferior skill.
OK...
1. If I made it seem like I was comparing anything OTHER than the hatred regen of Shadow Power's Night Bane to Preparation's Punishment, I'm sorry I didn't mean to. That was the only comparison (because that was the only effect that interests me, I admit, I could've and should've worded my initial post better to reflect that...) I was really trying to make.
2. Isn't really relevant since it sounds like I'm trying to start a pissing contest XD Sorry again...I'll invoke the "really tired and really sick (sinus infection...yuck!)" excuse...
3. Yeah...see #1. I was only responding to 1 rune effect of the skill comparing it to another skill's 1 rune effect.
Anyways...sorry if I came accross as a prick, I didn't really mean to and it was pretty much my fault XD I can also appreciate and respect everybody else's opinion on the fact that its now a utility skill to boost the class's survivability, and it is in fact a great skill. No denying that from me
This ability would seem to get much better when using AoE skills on large packs of mobs; 20% of all damage, right? Perhaps combined with cluster arrow, multi shot or piercing rapid fire, it would be very respectable. I presume you could fire off two cluster arrows (50 hatred each) within 3 seconds.
Also consider the fact that in inferno, the Demon Hunter is unlikely to want to get toe to toe with hordes of enemies and will instead prefer (in general) to keep distance. It would therefore seem likely that Demon Hunters will have more difficulty picking up health globes during a fight with many enemies, due to the risk of loosing yet more health. I see this new Shadow Power as an end game ability that allows the DH to heal without having to risk even more health loss getting in close to pick up globes.
Also, multishot can be runed to add discipline for every enemy hit, could work well together perhaps?
Agree with everything you've said. The functionality has definitely changed from being a dps self buff to a utility skill used to increase survivability.
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
"Vitually useless"? That is a very subjective use of words and completely your opinion. If you are right then Blizzard will change it. If you are wrong, which I suspect, then they either won't, or they will just balance it.
To quote myself:
...Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
I'll quote myself again:
Have you read the info about later difficulties? Have you seen the videos? Remember "YOU WILL DIE!" How can that happen if you never get hit? You will get surrounded, there are teleporting mobs, freezing mobs, charming mobs, stunning mobs and Azmodan knows what else! You WILL get hit! You will need survival skills. There are plenty of threads about this.
Also, I HIGHLY recommend read Azureskys post about no hatred generators. He talks in great length and great detail about how with the right gear Hatred regen can be through the roof. That extra regen you get from Prep might be completely wasted, and don't forget that to get the most out of Prep you have to use it when you have the discipline and zero hatred, otherwise it loses efficiency. In many builds the lower hatred of shadow power would be adequate and the free heal useful. Using 125 hatred every 10 secs with the templar plus over 10 hatred regen possibly just from gear isn't easy.
This is about build synergy, not one skill is better than another.
1. Yes, I didn't incorrect word what I was saying. Its not my opinion either, its a factual statement. I thought I explained it well enough but I guess I need to type the #'s out so theres less confusion. Shadow Power's Night Bane rune effect gives 60 hatred at the cost of 20 (or my build's case, 16) discipline. Preparation's Punishment effect restores ALL of your hatred at the same cost of 20 (or 16) discipline. The sole factor I was comparing the two skills and their rune effect was to determine which is a better hatred regenerator, and Preparation is factually superior in this regard. So yes, in this case, Shadow Power is "virtually useless" to me.
2. Considering I know more about my gaming "skills" than you do, I'd say its fair to say you're making quite the assumption as to what I'll need to survive. And yes, just to humor you, I have read the speculation (in fact, I'm one of the advocates for hoping Inferno punishes players severely), watched that doctored video on "you will die," and no, I don't plan on getting hit much. If there were ladders I would be one of the people towards the top in the HC side.
3. In case you didn't notice, I referenced and provided a link to Azuresky's thread about not using hatred generators THREE posts above yours...
If you have more than 1 generator or spender you're wasting slots.
Idk...I've narrowed it down to "trash" and "boss" builds for DH and my trash one is more versatile having both multishot and rapid fire, for different situations. But yeah with all the versatility the passives and rune effects have, its entirely possible to get away with no generators too. Thread talking about the viability of said build:
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Then your build sucks ass. Maybe I should have clarified that, "any non-shitty build..."
Yah you will never take dmg...lol. NEVER!
This is why we get stuck with the mickey mouse build calculator. so people like you don't make some terrible spec.
LOL you're the perfect example of "ignorance is bliss." Have fun sitting in act 2 of nightmare while I'm already starting Inferno. If you don't believe me, we can definitely work something out battletag wise.
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
Just one problem. He was right, and you are wrong. You can only make use out of 1-2 disc abilities, and prep although generates far more hatred wont heal you. Its the difference between having 1 or 2 abilities.
I agree though, I had big plans for the old shadow power.
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
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OK...
1. If I made it seem like I was comparing anything OTHER than the hatred regen of Shadow Power's Night Bane to Preparation's Punishment, I'm sorry I didn't mean to. That was the only comparison (because that was the only effect that interests me, I admit, I could've and should've worded my initial post better to reflect that...) I was really trying to make.
2. Isn't really relevant since it sounds like I'm trying to start a pissing contest XD Sorry again...I'll invoke the "really tired and really sick (sinus infection...yuck!)" excuse...
3. Yeah...see #1. I was only responding to 1 rune effect of the skill comparing it to another skill's 1 rune effect.
Anyways...sorry if I came accross as a prick, I didn't really mean to and it was pretty much my fault XD I can also appreciate and respect everybody else's opinion on the fact that its now a utility skill to boost the class's survivability, and it is in fact a great skill. No denying that from me
Agree with everything you've said. The functionality has definitely changed from being a dps self buff to a utility skill used to increase survivability.
1. Yes, I didn't incorrect word what I was saying. Its not my opinion either, its a factual statement. I thought I explained it well enough but I guess I need to type the #'s out so theres less confusion. Shadow Power's Night Bane rune effect gives 60 hatred at the cost of 20 (or my build's case, 16) discipline. Preparation's Punishment effect restores ALL of your hatred at the same cost of 20 (or 16) discipline. The sole factor I was comparing the two skills and their rune effect was to determine which is a better hatred regenerator, and Preparation is factually superior in this regard. So yes, in this case, Shadow Power is "virtually useless" to me.
2. Considering I know more about my gaming "skills" than you do, I'd say its fair to say you're making quite the assumption as to what I'll need to survive. And yes, just to humor you, I have read the speculation (in fact, I'm one of the advocates for hoping Inferno punishes players severely), watched that doctored video on "you will die," and no, I don't plan on getting hit much. If there were ladders I would be one of the people towards the top in the HC side.
3. In case you didn't notice, I referenced and provided a link to Azuresky's thread about not using hatred generators THREE posts above yours...
Idk...I've narrowed it down to "trash" and "boss" builds for DH and my trash one is more versatile having both multishot and rapid fire, for different situations. But yeah with all the versatility the passives and rune effects have, its entirely possible to get away with no generators too. Thread talking about the viability of said build:
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34341-no-hatred-generators/
LOL you're the perfect example of "ignorance is bliss." Have fun sitting in act 2 of nightmare while I'm already starting Inferno. If you don't believe me, we can definitely work something out battletag wise.
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.