Funny you should say that about RoF and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent Oneoftheorder because I've been talking about doing those spells for days. I plan on casting Arcane Torrent with Red rune to get the 120% damage, and then Disintegrate while the damage is increased using Red rune because its damage is higher than AT, and I will be casting them both often. RoF is higher than disintegrate but costs more mana, and only hits one target...
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.
out of the 6 spells you mentioned, I currently only plan to use 1 of them :). I guess I'm not part of that "bunch".
I think your vid misidentified Arcane Torrent. the animation at 3:37 actually looks like Meteor (Indigo) aka Meteor Shower. here's the definition
Meteor Shower
Unleash a volley of 14 smaller meteors that strike for 139 - 189 Fire damage.
I think this is the real Arcane Torrent at 50 seconds. it actually looks like the little spell icon
Omg...... You're right on the Indigo Meteor.... I'm not sure why the clip of the skill plays twice once at normal speed and then again in slow motion. When I first saw this vid I remember being a little confused at this part because the wizard -clearly- isn't channeling. Watching it over and over it looks like back when this was taken it was either only 7 meteors OR it comes down in 2 waves of 7 meteors. There are definitely 2 cast animations though..... Hmmm.
Regardless this is AMAZING. Indigo Meteor is SO viable, those are dropping fast enough to easily be usable to decimate groups! I am SO glad, I wanted to use this Rune/Spell combo so badly.
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
I love how you just assume everyone is going to be using your build. Have you even thought of the time it takes Disintegrate to ramp up during that 6 second window of de-buff time you have? I know you haven't thought about the fact you're going to be standing in place to deal damage.
I also know you haven't thought of the possibility that Alabaster runed Disintegrate might actually do more damage than Crimson.... I know it's the only rune I'll be using with it.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
wasting time setting them up to get disint to work is wasting time
Heh, I wasn't aware there was a race. I'm not a Disintegrate fan. I'm simply saying its not hard getting enemies into position to maximize the effectiveness of the spell.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
From what I've seen of it Arcane Orb is pretty sweet. It's harder to compare with Disint than Ray for obvious reasons.
Plus side - You can cast and move, no need to stay in one place (Pretty big)
Negative side - If you have a huge mob of enemies the orb is only going to hit the front of it while Disint would pierce through the entire thing.
Rune Wise -
Alabaster rune for it is silly since it pretty much just turns it into a more expensive version of Disint, and the Obsidian rune is for melee mages. Indigo could be better than Crimson for damage output, it depends on how much 8 yards is. I'm doubtful Golden is worth it.
Not sure if this fits into what you guys are speaking about, but I did some math.
With Astral Presence, Storm Armor w/Gold Rune (-7 AP costs), and Familair (4.5 AP regen/sec), I'm regenerating AP at 19/sec.
With 120 AP pool, I can cast Ray of Frost (22AP/sec) for 40 seconds for 16461.5 damage total over that time.
I can cast Dis exponentially longer, but I would never be sitting casting for 4 minutes straight.
For 40 seconds, I could do 8440 damage total over that time.
RoF does twice as much damage in the 40sec AP lifespan, but after 4 minutes of Disintegrating a monsters face off,
it does 25320 damage total over that time.
So for 'shorter' bursts of channeling, as you put it, I'm going with RoF.
However, I should make mention of RoF being a single target only spell. Disintegrate, according to you guys right?...pierces enemies so those damage numbers I'm reporting...you could do double those or triple those if there 2-3 monsters around. I just don't expect them to always (or even occasionally) be a single file line.
My thoughts,
DKR
Disintegrate, used correctly, will hands down always do more damage than Ray of Frost vs anything other than bosses. If you've played Diablo 2 you know how stupidly easy it is to get enemies into a line. Once you've got their attention all you have to do is back off and they'll chase you.... forming into a line.
Yeah, if your not using Storm armor with gold rune and ap neutral spells (spells below the 14.5 ap a second regen) with astral presence, Then yes, you will tap out...
They can be great, but sometimes it just looks like you'll be casting these spells most of the time that is why I personally don't like to focus on it, unless your a Melee Wizard with energy armor and pinpoint barrier then spamming sig spells is your bread and butter and I think they would be a match for a meteor or even disintegrate wizard 1 on 1.
Actually it wouldn't be only casting disintegrate, it would be also casting Arcane torrent with crimson to get 120% extra damage then disintegrate, and or slow time with miasma, it wouldn't even come close to being just 1 spell cast over and over.....
Did you even look at my post? Sure, you tap out after 8 seconds after dropping 5 Meteors or Hyrdas. I don't care that I'm tapped out because everything is DEAD.
Mac and I aren't attacking you. Your Golden Storm Armor + Crimson Disintegrate build simply isn't as amazing as you keep claiming it is. It's like you came up with the idea and can't think of anything else. I still don't know what build I really want to use (All I know is Storm Armor, Shock Pulse, Unstable Anomaly and Galvanizing Ward are crap imo).
Why are people looking down on sig spells? I mean any spell that gets to a 0 resource cost is a win in my book. Yes, I know there is a power difference but, at some point your going to tap out and need that freebee spell there.
I know, I don't get Electric's thinking. MM for 14 or Electrocute for 7 - 21 AP gain. Takes one cast, coupled with natural regen means more of the stronger spells.
His build is all about the fact you don't need sigs cause you never run out of AP only casting Disintegrate. Personally, I'd get ridiculously bored only ever casting one spell. To each their own though.
Meteor is still clumsy spell with a vast range between high and low damage, and using Frost nova crimson rune or Arcane torrent Crimson rune would get more damage with Meteor... You can do electrocute dance but I don't think people will (in Arena but in the game, sure...? I wouldn't be surprised if it happened in a game but on arena there are only 2 - 4 enemies? Would they stand close and let you do this? I thought they were supposed to be running from the Meteor...
I have my doubts about that builds "stamina" against someone using DIAT or DIFrostNova...
Arena in D3 is a joke where you go to mess around. The builds are going to be vastly different than for PvE. I'm not sure why you even bring it up, obviously my math was assuming PvE.
And if you think in Arena you'll be able to stand in place and cast Disintegrate while a Barbarian pounds your face in you're sadly mistaken.
Did you see the numbers ? If they are using Energy shield and your both hitting each other assuming neither one has diamond skin etc. they won't be able to cast it because they won't have mana, so my precious Storm armor is what a lot of people will be using and Ice armor doesn't work with non-melee hit with that good intentioned little Armor increase from Gold rune.
I never said the wizards were fighting. You're PvEing side by side.
If it is true that wizards only have 100 arcane power in the game, (120 with astral presence). That is 2 casts of meteor and if your rocking Energy Armor, it is gone or soon will be.
With Astral Presence and Indigo Energy Armor I have 160 AP and 14.5 energy regen. If you use Meteor you'll use Golden Electrocute. Assuming a cast speed of 1 spell per second:
0 second - Meteor, 100 AP
1 second - Electrocute, 135 AP
2 second - Meteor, 75 AP
3 second - Electrocute, 110 AP
4 second - Meteor, 50 AP
5 second - Electrocute, 85 AP
6 second - Meteor, 25 AP
7 second - Electrocute, 60 AP
8 second - Meteor 0 AP
So in 8 seconds you can drop 5 meteors/hyrdas. If everything isn't dead after that much damage something is seriously wrong. Then by the time the next fight starts your regen would have brought you back. This is for solo too, in team fights enemies are going to be dying even faster.
While Golden Storm Armor may seem very powerful, when compared to Indigo Energy Armor, it really isn't.
I took Ray because you wanted a utility build, not a damage build. Ray puts up negative attack speed to reduce the damage your party is taking.
Disintegrate has 100% pierce, Ray only hits the target in front. Ray for bosses, Disintegrate for trash. Disintegrate can also slow everything on screen with the arcane passive while Ray only slows the front target it hits.
You can channel Disintegrate for 4 minutes, okay how is that useful? The speed AP regens, especially when coupled with a Golden Sig spell, not to mention the fact stuff should actually be dying means channeling for 4 minutes is meaningless. If you were in an arena with endless waves of enemies coming towards you it would be useful, but you're running around and not always fighting. Storm Armor gold is to reduce the cost of the massive spells like Hydra and Meteor, not the cheap spells.....
I guarantee you in game, side by side, another Wizard without your Storm Armor golden will be able to channel Disintegrate for exactly the same amount of time as you. Because there is always down time between fights where you will regen to full.
1. No it's 100.
2. 12.5 per sec
3. I don't see a reason not to have a Golden Sig spell to regen AP. IMO Golden Storm Armor isn't as good as Indigo Energy Armor. (20% boost to your stat that reduces all damage by a flat %, plus +40 AP)
4. Yes. A wizard focused on groups could afford to channel Crimson Disintegrate whereas a solo wizard would struggle. In general any channel spell is going to shine in multi player and be weaker solo. Keep in mind there's no real reason to have more than 3-4 damage spells.
5. I threw these builds together -really- fast.
Omg...... You're right on the Indigo Meteor.... I'm not sure why the clip of the skill plays twice once at normal speed and then again in slow motion. When I first saw this vid I remember being a little confused at this part because the wizard -clearly- isn't channeling. Watching it over and over it looks like back when this was taken it was either only 7 meteors OR it comes down in 2 waves of 7 meteors. There are definitely 2 cast animations though..... Hmmm.
Regardless this is AMAZING. Indigo Meteor is SO viable, those are dropping fast enough to easily be usable to decimate groups! I am SO glad, I wanted to use this Rune/Spell combo so badly.
Edit: trashed youtube links to make post smaller.
I love how you just assume everyone is going to be using your build. Have you even thought of the time it takes Disintegrate to ramp up during that 6 second window of de-buff time you have? I know you haven't thought about the fact you're going to be standing in place to deal damage.
I also know you haven't thought of the possibility that Alabaster runed Disintegrate might actually do more damage than Crimson.... I know it's the only rune I'll be using with it.
Heh, I wasn't aware there was a race. I'm not a Disintegrate fan. I'm simply saying its not hard getting enemies into position to maximize the effectiveness of the spell.
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
Plus side - You can cast and move, no need to stay in one place (Pretty big)
Negative side - If you have a huge mob of enemies the orb is only going to hit the front of it while Disint would pierce through the entire thing.
Rune Wise -
Alabaster rune for it is silly since it pretty much just turns it into a more expensive version of Disint, and the Obsidian rune is for melee mages. Indigo could be better than Crimson for damage output, it depends on how much 8 yards is. I'm doubtful Golden is worth it.
Disintegrate, used correctly, will hands down always do more damage than Ray of Frost vs anything other than bosses. If you've played Diablo 2 you know how stupidly easy it is to get enemies into a line. Once you've got their attention all you have to do is back off and they'll chase you.... forming into a line.
Did you even look at my post? Sure, you tap out after 8 seconds after dropping 5 Meteors or Hyrdas. I don't care that I'm tapped out because everything is DEAD.
Mac and I aren't attacking you. Your Golden Storm Armor + Crimson Disintegrate build simply isn't as amazing as you keep claiming it is. It's like you came up with the idea and can't think of anything else. I still don't know what build I really want to use (All I know is Storm Armor, Shock Pulse, Unstable Anomaly and Galvanizing Ward are crap imo).
On a side note, since you keep bringing up Arena, here's my Barb build who would crush your Disintegrate Wiz: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#dbePRY!bWa!aZbZcZ
I know, I don't get Electric's thinking. MM for 14 or Electrocute for 7 - 21 AP gain. Takes one cast, coupled with natural regen means more of the stronger spells.
His build is all about the fact you don't need sigs cause you never run out of AP only casting Disintegrate. Personally, I'd get ridiculously bored only ever casting one spell. To each their own though.
Arena in D3 is a joke where you go to mess around. The builds are going to be vastly different than for PvE. I'm not sure why you even bring it up, obviously my math was assuming PvE.
And if you think in Arena you'll be able to stand in place and cast Disintegrate while a Barbarian pounds your face in you're sadly mistaken.
I never said the wizards were fighting. You're PvEing side by side.
With Astral Presence and Indigo Energy Armor I have 160 AP and 14.5 energy regen. If you use Meteor you'll use Golden Electrocute. Assuming a cast speed of 1 spell per second:
0 second - Meteor, 100 AP
1 second - Electrocute, 135 AP
2 second - Meteor, 75 AP
3 second - Electrocute, 110 AP
4 second - Meteor, 50 AP
5 second - Electrocute, 85 AP
6 second - Meteor, 25 AP
7 second - Electrocute, 60 AP
8 second - Meteor 0 AP
So in 8 seconds you can drop 5 meteors/hyrdas. If everything isn't dead after that much damage something is seriously wrong. Then by the time the next fight starts your regen would have brought you back. This is for solo too, in team fights enemies are going to be dying even faster.
While Golden Storm Armor may seem very powerful, when compared to Indigo Energy Armor, it really isn't.
Disintegrate has 100% pierce, Ray only hits the target in front. Ray for bosses, Disintegrate for trash. Disintegrate can also slow everything on screen with the arcane passive while Ray only slows the front target it hits.
You can channel Disintegrate for 4 minutes, okay how is that useful? The speed AP regens, especially when coupled with a Golden Sig spell, not to mention the fact stuff should actually be dying means channeling for 4 minutes is meaningless. If you were in an arena with endless waves of enemies coming towards you it would be useful, but you're running around and not always fighting. Storm Armor gold is to reduce the cost of the massive spells like Hydra and Meteor, not the cheap spells.....
I guarantee you in game, side by side, another Wizard without your Storm Armor golden will be able to channel Disintegrate for exactly the same amount of time as you. Because there is always down time between fights where you will regen to full.
2. 12.5 per sec
3. I don't see a reason not to have a Golden Sig spell to regen AP. IMO Golden Storm Armor isn't as good as Indigo Energy Armor. (20% boost to your stat that reduces all damage by a flat %, plus +40 AP)
4. Yes. A wizard focused on groups could afford to channel Crimson Disintegrate whereas a solo wizard would struggle. In general any channel spell is going to shine in multi player and be weaker solo. Keep in mind there's no real reason to have more than 3-4 damage spells.
5. I threw these builds together -really- fast.
Glass cannon multi-party wizard: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#kQUhOm!bXZ!ZYZZZZ
Support party wizard: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#SQljad!VXb!ZYcbZb (not terribly thrilled with this build)
Durable solo wizard: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#dhQRkO!XZe!bZYaZZ