Pvp will be fine. I dont understand what in the world makes you guys think tdm mode somehow invalidates all strategy, and "skill". I played tdm in a lot of shooters, in tournaments too. No one there took it lightly.
This zerg fest your talking about isnt gonna happen but at the lowest possible level of pvp. Near the top of the matchmaking, I'm pretty sure they will be some very tight, fun games. You SHOULD be facing like-minded individuals and teams.
I don't think PvPers are upset so much about the current system, but rather that system being the climax of PvP in Diablo 3. I think people expect a lot more from Blizzard, and simply can't understand why some variety and flavor can't be added to the PvP scene. There are ways to please both PvPers and PvMers so that an all-around great game can be achieved, but instead people seem to want to turn the argument into an "all or nothing" debate. We're all in this together, people. Adding options to the game for a wider audience to enjoy is usually not a bad decision, especially when the game would benefit so much from it (think replay value).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
For the quadrillionth time we don't want razor edge balance at the expense of the PvE game. WE DON'T WANT THAT. IF POSSIBLE it would be nice to have PvP abilities separated from PvE if the imbalance is ridiculous, (Jay Wilson has stated that the system is already implemented to achieve this) but mainly we're simply asking for some FUN and RESPECTABLE PvP systems rather than the mindless zerg PvP that's in the game now.
Please stop using this argument!!!
Who are "we"? The original poster who started this very thread wants it, so it's somewhat possible that the response was to him, you know.
"We" would be people who realize that the heaping pile that is PvP currently in Diablo 3 is a disgrace to the Blizzard name. "We" are also rational people who do realize that this is primarily a PvE game, but have enough common sense to realize that a small amount (when compared with effort put into PvE) of PvP flavor in it's midst would add a tremendous amount of fun and enormous amount of replay value, which would also benefit the game greatly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Yeah, and it would definitely just take two minutes to implement too, damn them lazy bastards.
Currently we have 1, I repeat ONE single arena mode for PvP. Are you really trying to infer that this is an acceptable balance of development time compared to the other 99.9999999999% of the game that's completely devoted to PvE?
I understand this is primarily a PvE game, and I'm fine with that. The point is that it would take a very minute amount of effort (when compared with PvE developement) to implement a few creative PvP options. It wouldn't hurt ANYONE and the game would be much more well-rounded and draw in a broader audience because of it.
If even a fraction of development was spent on PvP (judging by how awesome PvE is looking) I have no doubt we could have a great PvP experience in Diablo 3.
Explain to me what the responsibilities of the "PvP strike team" (Jay Wilson quote) are again? What do they even do?
- no balance
- no design
- no ranking system
WTF do they do?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
They don't want PvP to be a focus because PvP takes time and resources to balance. If you do it whereby you change the skill for both you get what happened to WoW - one minute a class is UP in PvP but OP in PvE and then they balance the PvP side and it now sucks in PvE. It happens because the games are different.
balancing PvE is simple as they can say *okay every class has to put out 10k damage over a minute*...
Now in PvP that doesn't work. Because the Monk's chip damage won't go toe-to-toe with the Barb's bigger hits. Even naked and just having them auto attack; its impossible to get them to kill each other at the same time.
Now that you have done that the Monk's dps in PvE is suddenly 20k instead of 10k per minute because it needed a nuke boost for PvP.
(this is a very bad example showing that balance can't be universal; it has too many factors which is WHY blizz had to choose; PvE or PvP focus. They went with PvE).
For the quadrillionth time we don't want razor edge balance at the expense of the PvE game. WE DON'T WANT THAT. IF POSSIBLE it would be nice to have PvP abilities separated from PvE if the imbalance is ridiculous, (Jay Wilson has stated that the system is already implemented to achieve this) but mainly we're simply asking for some FUN and RESPECTABLE PvP systems rather than the mindless zerg PvP that's in the game now.
Please stop using this argument!!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Blizzard never stated that their aim is to make the game easier than D2, probably just the opposite. A lot of people seem to just equate casual with easy, but if you actually read interview and so on you'd know that what they mean with casual is the ability to play it in smaller chunks of time and still be able to progress, just like the other Diablo games.
That Blizzard aims for "easy to learn hard to master" is not exactly new and Diablo 2 was't exactly that complex of a game.
No, this is EXACTLY the point that Jay Wilson was trying to make in his interview on PvP. I.e. no competition encouragement, no balance whatsoever, no rewards which equates to mindless zerg pvp. Ugh. Sounds horrible. So disappointing.
There are rewards, titles and stuff for your banner. What do you want, gear for pvp? That would be stupid sice d3 is not a game about pvp. They said they would not allow pvp balance to control PvM.
I do wish they would add a little more competition though.
How about aesthetic features for your character (i.e. BLOODY EARS, SKULLS, BONES hanging) for, say, killing a great player in a 1v1 duel.
How about a title and ranking system rather than some half-assed title "that shows you've done a lot of pvp." Ugh. Disgustingly lazy.
How about a "winner takes all" arena where opponents put up gold or items for grabs.
How about some objective based PvP like capture the flag, defend the NPC, hoarde mode (a nice combination of competition and PvE where 2 teams would compete to hold off waves of monsters)
ETC ETC ETC I just thought of those in 2 minutes.
My god there are so many options and this game could be so amazing for both PvE and PvP. AHHHHH.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Blizzard never stated that their aim is to make the game easier than D2, probably just the opposite. A lot of people seem to just equate casual with easy, but if you actually read interview and so on you'd know that what they mean with casual is the ability to play it in smaller chunks of time and still be able to progress, just like the other Diablo games.
That Blizzard aims for "easy to learn hard to master" is not exactly new and Diablo 2 was't exactly that complex of a game.
No, this is EXACTLY the point that Jay Wilson was trying to make in his interview on PvP. I.e. no competition encouragement, no balance whatsoever, no rewards which equates to mindless zerg pvp. Ugh. Sounds horrible. So disappointing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I really don't understand this "catering to the casual market" argument at all. I think even "casual" players want goals to achieve, and enjoy a sense of accomplishment when they achieve them.
Therefore, from a PvP perspective or not, I don't see how dumbing a game down to a state where everyone is essentially on the same level in their gameplay because it's so damn easy will do anything but make people get bored with the game faster. I also don't understand how having a ranking system will drive "casuals" away. People enjoy having goals to reach (even if they're potentially unobtainable.) That's the nature of this game genre and what adds to it's flavor. I would think having a ranking system would encourage "casuals" to strive to get better. Eventually mindless zerging will get old to anyone. Then what happens?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I don't think PvPers are upset so much about the current system, but rather that system being the climax of PvP in Diablo 3. I think people expect a lot more from Blizzard, and simply can't understand why some variety and flavor can't be added to the PvP scene. There are ways to please both PvPers and PvMers so that an all-around great game can be achieved, but instead people seem to want to turn the argument into an "all or nothing" debate. We're all in this together, people. Adding options to the game for a wider audience to enjoy is usually not a bad decision, especially when the game would benefit so much from it (think replay value).
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
"We" would be people who realize that the heaping pile that is PvP currently in Diablo 3 is a disgrace to the Blizzard name. "We" are also rational people who do realize that this is primarily a PvE game, but have enough common sense to realize that a small amount (when compared with effort put into PvE) of PvP flavor in it's midst would add a tremendous amount of fun and enormous amount of replay value, which would also benefit the game greatly.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Currently we have 1, I repeat ONE single arena mode for PvP. Are you really trying to infer that this is an acceptable balance of development time compared to the other 99.9999999999% of the game that's completely devoted to PvE?
I understand this is primarily a PvE game, and I'm fine with that. The point is that it would take a very minute amount of effort (when compared with PvE developement) to implement a few creative PvP options. It wouldn't hurt ANYONE and the game would be much more well-rounded and draw in a broader audience because of it.
If even a fraction of development was spent on PvP (judging by how awesome PvE is looking) I have no doubt we could have a great PvP experience in Diablo 3.
Explain to me what the responsibilities of the "PvP strike team" (Jay Wilson quote) are again? What do they even do?
- no balance
- no design
- no ranking system
WTF do they do?
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
For the quadrillionth time we don't want razor edge balance at the expense of the PvE game. WE DON'T WANT THAT. IF POSSIBLE it would be nice to have PvP abilities separated from PvE if the imbalance is ridiculous, (Jay Wilson has stated that the system is already implemented to achieve this) but mainly we're simply asking for some FUN and RESPECTABLE PvP systems rather than the mindless zerg PvP that's in the game now.
Please stop using this argument!!!
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
How about aesthetic features for your character (i.e. BLOODY EARS, SKULLS, BONES hanging) for, say, killing a great player in a 1v1 duel.
How about a title and ranking system rather than some half-assed title "that shows you've done a lot of pvp." Ugh. Disgustingly lazy.
How about a "winner takes all" arena where opponents put up gold or items for grabs.
How about some objective based PvP like capture the flag, defend the NPC, hoarde mode (a nice combination of competition and PvE where 2 teams would compete to hold off waves of monsters)
ETC ETC ETC I just thought of those in 2 minutes.
My god there are so many options and this game could be so amazing for both PvE and PvP. AHHHHH.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
No, this is EXACTLY the point that Jay Wilson was trying to make in his interview on PvP. I.e. no competition encouragement, no balance whatsoever, no rewards which equates to mindless zerg pvp. Ugh. Sounds horrible. So disappointing.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Therefore, from a PvP perspective or not, I don't see how dumbing a game down to a state where everyone is essentially on the same level in their gameplay because it's so damn easy will do anything but make people get bored with the game faster. I also don't understand how having a ranking system will drive "casuals" away. People enjoy having goals to reach (even if they're potentially unobtainable.) That's the nature of this game genre and what adds to it's flavor. I would think having a ranking system would encourage "casuals" to strive to get better. Eventually mindless zerging will get old to anyone. Then what happens?
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.