@Jamoose So you say when you increase 100% damage with 500% you still get 500%? Explain how. You cant explain that. I used example where you buff 0% damage by 500% just to show you that you are wrong. I talked about gear for GR and not for trials if that is not obvious then I don't know what is.
This "With crusader AS buff and WD AS buff there is basicly no difference between AS weapon or no AS weapon" is simply wrong. Where do you get that information from? And no, in trials with 0dog you don't run out of hatred and no elite damage in trials is useless. 0dog does not spawn more or less globes when fighting an RG so no, that's not true. the stat priority between ias, ad, ed, rcr on wepaon / gloves or whatever, is different for various setups. For 2 players (wd + dh) i found that you still need quite a lot of rcr. For 4 player groups (wd+crus+2dh) you can totally give up on rcr and rely only on the health globes. For any other setup that doesn't involve 0dog, you want as much rcr as possible.
My information comes from actual game play. Iam top 30 DH EU right now and I have compleated 56 in 4 man. It looks to me I know what I am doing. If you did not know you dont use WD for trials. You go there with 2 crusaders one for globes one for damage buff. In that setup we where able to get GR 58 key. And yes we still lack globes almost each trials run. 0dog WD can spawn globes fast if he is using legacy mojo and almost noone has that. Elite damage for trials is useless agreed but I did not talk about trials. Crusader spawns more globes if there are more monsters and RG is single target. 0dog WD does not spawn globes in GR. I did not read rest of the post because so far you dont use valid arguments.
Sorry to be a party-pooper, but;
1) Completing 56 right now with a proper group is nothing to be really proud of, the cap where 0DOG starts making a difference is 57/58.
2) My group of 0Dog/Crusader/DH/DH gets 58 keys regularly, while also having attained 59's and even 60's (Arround 10 59's and 5 60's). Why you would take a second crusader there just for HG is beyond me when the WD gives you more globes, more dps via BBV and either mass confusion or haunt.
3) Crusader's law might spawn more HG's per click but it's also on a CD, whereas 0DOG is not, making 0DOG provide more globes per any timeframe that's superior to 5/6 seconds.
4) "0DOG WD does not spawn globes in GR". Im sorry to be offensive, but i've never read anything as retarded as this. What do you think they take 0DOG gear for in GRifts, show and tell? That's exactly what they do in GRifts: Spawn health globes.
Not too sure on what to say here. The fact that you're also stating that with certain AS buffs, having AS on weapon is the same as not having it is just...mindboggling. In your own words, a player with 2 APS will do the exact same dps as someone with 2,2 APS while under the effects of a chanelling pylon. Not too sure where you got this conclusion from (And if it's from your gameplay as you stated then do remind me never to run with you), but to each his own.
I wrote 0dog WD while I tought support WD that is the only problem here. Sorry but I only play DH so this weird names confuse me sometimes. I hope that clears missunderstanding. If you read what I wrote you would see that I also said that I don't take into account legacy items that almost no one has. IF you are telling me that you are getting 60 key in trials with WD that does not use legacy items I must say I don't trust you until you post video of it. Also post video of you clearing 59/60 GR while not using legacy items. What was your max GR with no legacy items on WD?
Support WD that does not use legacy items does not spawn globes in GR. Am I wrong about this???
The biggest advantage of 0dog WD is on boss fight.
Now if we don't take into account legacy items and we speak about regular support WD would you agree that on boss fight you lack HP globes and that RCR is good stat on weapon. AS does not metter in that case beacause it is not important if you spend your hatred 7% faster because CA costs much and it is gone fast anyway. With regular support WD RCR on weapon >>> of AS.
And yes all this comes from my game play because I don't have privilege to play with WD that is using legacy items but regular support WD that does not spawn globes in GR.
Just to add I made Excel spreadsheet for sentry damage clculation before patch. What I did was: record game play and play it over and over again 100 times. Then I get same numbers I see in video in my excel calculator. That was my main source of information. I spent about one week to figure out what type of buffs are additive and multiplicative. So I think I have good knowledge about basic game mechanics. How much time did you spent on research?
@Jamoose So you say when you increase 100% damage with 500% you still get 500%? Explain how. You cant explain that. I used example where you buff 0% damage by 500% just to show you that you are wrong. I talked about gear for GR and not for trials if that is not obvious then I don't know what is.
This "With crusader AS buff and WD AS buff there is basicly no difference between AS weapon or no AS weapon" is simply wrong. Where do you get that information from? And no, in trials with 0dog you don't run out of hatred and no elite damage in trials is useless. 0dog does not spawn more or less globes when fighting an RG so no, that's not true. the stat priority between ias, ad, ed, rcr on wepaon / gloves or whatever, is different for various setups. For 2 players (wd + dh) i found that you still need quite a lot of rcr. For 4 player groups (wd+crus+2dh) you can totally give up on rcr and rely only on the health globes. For any other setup that doesn't involve 0dog, you want as much rcr as possible.
My information comes from actual game play. Iam top 30 DH EU right now and I have compleated 56 in 4 man. It looks to me I know what I am doing. If you did not know you dont use WD for trials. You go there with 2 crusaders one for globes one for damage buff. In that setup we where able to get GR 58 key. And yes we still lack globes almost each trials run. 0dog WD can spawn globes fast if he is using legacy mojo and almost noone has that. Elite damage for trials is useless agreed but I did not talk about trials. Crusader spawns more globes if there are more monsters and RG is single target. 0dog WD does not spawn globes in GR. I did not read rest of the post because so far you dont use valid arguments.
"Pretty sure that's not how it works. With 5 sentries out, your damage is boosted by 500%, that's it. You don't deal 100% damage + 500%... You deal 500% of your original damage. Attack speed is the best roll on weapons and gloves when you have a 0dog wd in group and you are doing trials or 4p with a crusader too that can consistently pickup health globes."
I am pretty sure you are wrong.
If you have 0 sentries out you can still fire and do damage that's 100% damage (original damage) I am talking about. For every active sentry you get 100% increased damage. For 5 it is 500% increased damage. If you increase 0 damage by 500% you still get 0. You are increasing your original damage that 100% that I talked about. The only possible question you could have is if that 500% is added or multiplied to/with 100% original damage and I am pretty sure it is additive if it was multiplicative it would be too much.
Now lets take a look at sentry damage. Marauder set increase damage only for your own shots. Sentry shots are not buffed by marauder set bonus so each sentry will fire at 100% original damage unbuffed (you can buff that with %CA/%Sentry on gear but I don't talk about that now). Five sentry will shoot 5*100%=500%.
So it is clear that you do more damage then sentries do.
And about attack speed..... With crusader AS buff and WD AS buff there is basicly no difference between AS weapon or no AS weapon if you only look at attacks per second stat. Also with as many HP globes there you would still run out of hatred. When you use wolf all HP globes are gone for example. On boss you cant spawn that many globes anyway. Now difference between 18 shots *if you use RCR) and 15 shots (if you don't) ( 1 hatred pool, wolf and preparation) is: 15/18 = 0.8333 1-0.8333=0.16666 about 16%.
Damage to elites is better on weapon then AS also.
You do more damage then your sentries do. Your own shot is 100% + 500% boost from each sentry placed on the ground. That is 600%. And 5 sentry hit for 5*100%=500%. So out of 1100% total damage you do about 55% and sentries about 45%. Getting CA on the offhand is smart because that way you buff bigger part of your damage and that is your own shots.
Also Attack speed on weapon is nearly useless in almost any type of setup.
Support WD that does not use legacy items does not spawn globes in GR. Am I wrong about this???
The biggest advantage of 0dog WD is on boss fight.
Now if we don't take into account legacy items and we speak about regular support WD would you agree that on boss fight you lack HP globes and that RCR is good stat on weapon. AS does not metter in that case beacause it is not important if you spend your hatred 7% faster because CA costs much and it is gone fast anyway. With regular support WD RCR on weapon >>> of AS.
And yes all this comes from my game play because I don't have privilege to play with WD that is using legacy items but regular support WD that does not spawn globes in GR.
My information comes from actual game play. Iam top 30 DH EU right now and I have compleated 56 in 4 man. It looks to me I know what I am doing. If you did not know you dont use WD for trials. You go there with 2 crusaders one for globes one for damage buff. In that setup we where able to get GR 58 key. And yes we still lack globes almost each trials run. 0dog WD can spawn globes fast if he is using legacy mojo and almost noone has that. Elite damage for trials is useless agreed but I did not talk about trials. Crusader spawns more globes if there are more monsters and RG is single target. 0dog WD does not spawn globes in GR. I did not read rest of the post because so far you dont use valid arguments.
"Pretty sure that's not how it works. With 5 sentries out, your damage is boosted by 500%, that's it. You don't deal 100% damage + 500%... You deal 500% of your original damage. Attack speed is the best roll on weapons and gloves when you have a 0dog wd in group and you are doing trials or 4p with a crusader too that can consistently pickup health globes."
I am pretty sure you are wrong.
If you have 0 sentries out you can still fire and do damage that's 100% damage (original damage) I am talking about. For every active sentry you get 100% increased damage. For 5 it is 500% increased damage. If you increase 0 damage by 500% you still get 0. You are increasing your original damage that 100% that I talked about. The only possible question you could have is if that 500% is added or multiplied to/with 100% original damage and I am pretty sure it is additive if it was multiplicative it would be too much.
Now lets take a look at sentry damage. Marauder set increase damage only for your own shots. Sentry shots are not buffed by marauder set bonus so each sentry will fire at 100% original damage unbuffed (you can buff that with %CA/%Sentry on gear but I don't talk about that now). Five sentry will shoot 5*100%=500%.
So it is clear that you do more damage then sentries do.
And about attack speed..... With crusader AS buff and WD AS buff there is basicly no difference between AS weapon or no AS weapon if you only look at attacks per second stat. Also with as many HP globes there you would still run out of hatred. When you use wolf all HP globes are gone for example. On boss you cant spawn that many globes anyway. Now difference between 18 shots *if you use RCR) and 15 shots (if you don't) ( 1 hatred pool, wolf and preparation) is: 15/18 = 0.8333 1-0.8333=0.16666 about 16%.
Damage to elites is better on weapon then AS also.
You do more damage then your sentries do. Your own shot is 100% + 500% boost from each sentry placed on the ground. That is 600%. And 5 sentry hit for 5*100%=500%. So out of 1100% total damage you do about 55% and sentries about 45%. Getting CA on the offhand is smart because that way you buff bigger part of your damage and that is your own shots.
Also Attack speed on weapon is nearly useless in almost any type of setup.