Well the website I directed you to before in D2JSP is FOR it and they control the whole Diablo economy ATM ha. The people voting in this sub forum are the PvM people, this website is mainly PvM oriented and team play coop, not to many PvP in this website. It doesn't matter, I am not saying it will be in the game, I am saying I would enjoy it, even it was only in private whatever. Kills a part of the game for me but whatever well see what they do with the arena.
From everything I've seen, Diablofans is one of if not the most popular fan sites for Diablo 3. In fact D2JSP doesn't actually come up at all in a search for "Diablo 3 fansite". So, I'm not sure how much an opinion on D2JSP actually represents the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3.
In addition to that, D2JSP only corners the Diablo 2 economy because there is no auction system in Diablo 2. With the RMAH and GAH in Diablo 3, you won't see the majority of players use any site like D2JSP at all. Why subject yourself to scams and shady deals when you can just sell them easily using a built-in system?
Oh, and I looked at the D2JSP forum...the only poll related to PvP in the first 10 pages was asking if people actually planned on PVPing at all. I had nothing to do with hostility or dueling. So am I missing something?...
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
Damn im out $10.
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
I still got my hopes that the big changes blizz is still implementing and considering on thier pvp mechanics may involve the inclusion of hostility. I think enough people liked the idea that there is a chance some 'form' of hostility might comeback. This might explain the shear magnitude of the changes, they have to be doing something big with PvP for the things to still be in construction because PvP was showcased in some of the early diablo 3 demos at the blizzcons.
Nope. Wrong. Explained multiple times and you didn't read. See previous topics/posts.
Doubt it, will most likely never happen. Jay Wilson is an avid caped crusader against hostility, he was obviously attacked and killed many times to give him such trauma. It allows to much "griefing" opportunity, and they don't care enough about the "little people" who liked the features it offered beyond griefing. We will most likely get a boring ass team arena where you will be forced to team duel or join randoms and get stomped by an organized group, and have to make 3 games just to duel once and continue where you left off.
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
Can I get that $10 now? or does it go to him? Cause I sure didn't post 3 essays.
Oh well see, ill run my stuff to gather the data don't worry!
Your stuff?! So, you'll somehow hack Blizzard and get the exact numbers for number of players playing in private games versus public games eh? Because unless you can do that, you'll be waiting on Blizzard to actually announce something...which they might not do.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter.. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In all honestly, it means that dueling/hostility is a WORSE idea as players would be using private games even more and as such more exposure to the negatives. So, if you're right... the result stays the same.
Getting so upset and angry haha. IDK according to you though the majority of players play in public and will do so in D3, yet again..Blizzard says otherwise.
Who did they review to get these answers about PvP? Only thing I saw regarding PvP was a questionnaire they did at Blizzcon which is an inaccurate head count because 90% of the people there were for SC2 and WoW.
Upset!? ~laughs~ No way, I'm laughing at your posts generally. I'm pretty sure I'd be posting a whole lot different if I was angry.
I never said Blizzard said anything about PvP. What I said is what did the majority of players do for PvP... to which the answer is... sit outside town in Act 1 and fight. Guess what Arena is?... joining a specific game to essentially sit in a set area to fight. Oh wait... Blizzard is ignoring their PvP player~base and making something completely different then they are used to playing.. I'm so wrong.
Did I say that the majority of players in PvM are CURRENTLY playing in public games? No. I explained why that was the case specifically in my previous post. So yes, I feel that come the actual release, we'll see the majority actually being public games. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it during this open beta.
Good, glad you are happy. I am tired of reading 3 essays for you to attempt to get your point across haha. Beta or not, you are grabbing at straws here, the majority of games has always been and always will be private. You cannot simply sit there and flaunt how Blizzard says majority of players didn't PvP and majority of players PvM'd, then simply ignore fact they said majority of players play in private.
I don't believe I ignored that fact. I believe I actually gave a reason for why it exists. Seems you chose to not read that as well.
Well first off, pretty simple. No it would act much like D2 hostility probably with a few tweaks if needed so no dueling in town. If they gain your trust and grief you then that is on you, should be better at reading people. If they don't want pvp then stay out of private games with randoms?
Yea the arena fixes everything!! Team battles which EVERYONE wants. Health globes which EVERYONE wants. 3 games to duel once which EVERYONE wants. Man...blizzard rocks!
You are the exact person I was talking about, no idea about PvP at all, just a PvM'er who comes in this sub forum to try and say everything is alright when clearly you are just going to go die to Leoric at level 60 in normal ha.
See, the funny thing Adon... team battles are what the MAJORITY want. Health globes are useful for a more CASUAL play style. As for three games to duel once...well, certainly seems like Blizzard doesn't want you do run around dueling everyone...hrm...I wonder if that is INTENTIONAL...I just don't know.
If you haven't realized this yet, Blizzard is making these choices in order to make the game (including PvP) appeal to a larger audience. Why did the majority of players play private games in Diablo 2? How did the majority of people PvP in Diablo 2? Seriously.. Blizzard is making the game according to what the MAJORITY of their player~base want. You obviously don't seem to be one of those people... so perhaps the game just isn't for you? Perhaps... you should ~gasp~ stick with the game you love (Diablo 2).
I didn't even bother to read your whole post because it is already wrong at the start. Blizzard themselves have already stated that majority of D2 games took place in private games, and even in the beta and internal test the majority was private games. The Diablo community is full of assholes (I being 1 of them as Koda knows ), people will be pushed to private games further through the release regardless if they want or not, whether it is because someone is a dick in a public game or they finally met friends or wanna solo, the odds are majority are in private.
Blizzards beta was primarily private games because it could actually take five minutes sometimes for the matchmaker to set you up with someone on the same quest as you unless you were skeleton king grinding. I played the beta very heavily, and experienced this myself on numerous occasions. Of course people are going to goto private games when waits are that long sometimes. Once the game is officially released and there is a steady stream of players at all levels of play, wait times will be way smaller.
I love how you won't even take the time to ready a post, but you'll manage to prove me right. Thanks! Its good to know that I have a great example to prove my point.
Look it's not that hard. I took the idea from you yourself. There's no need to play social politics (blah blah you hurt my feelings I'm a victim blah blah) with it and base our thought process on blind hatred for one crop or what "might" happen. Also, nearly everyone would use this feature overtime, gauranteed. Even if they were originally against it, they would find it useful at some point in time. I'm as anxious as anyone to get in there and bash me up some monsters, but I also know the vast majority of players will still spend most of their time in >private games< playing with their >friends and family as well as solo< and having a convenience like non-grief hostility or duels in >private games< would be a huge credit to the diablo series.
You're quite wrong actually. I have a feeling the majority of players will actually play Public games, both PvM and PvP. Why? Because its more fun to play with people. Your friends and family won't always be on when you are (unless you purposely play that way only) and as such people will generally end up playing with randoms.
In addition to my belief, its very evident that Blizzard's goal is to have people play together in public games, hence them making it so easy to dive right in. If they expected most people to play private, they would not have put the effort into making a public matchmaking system for quests and such.
I'm not making my decision based on irrational fears, or anything like that. I look at the way the feature would likely be used, how the PvP posters here act, and how the PvM posters here act. I'm sorry if that means I see something different then you, but I just don't see the future being a NEEDED feature. If Blizzard added it, I wouldn't be one to complain about it existing... but I won't support adding it right now. Its a feature that I see very little good coming from, while I can see quite a bit of negative resulting.
Again, I point you to the people that post here on behalf of PvP generally...is that honestly an attitude you want to promote? I sure don't. What would duels/hostility offer that Arena could not (assuming Arena got a FFA/1v1 mode)? The amount of people that would actually want to duel mid quest would be so minor, compared to those that would try use it to grief or complain that it isn't in public games. Sorry, but how can I justify supporting it?
I'm not pvp focused I'm just typing in a pvp forum about pvp, not pvM.
I'll be hacking and slashing the vast majority of my playtime just like everyone else, you can't really pvp on an empty stomache so to speak anyways even if you were pvp focused because equipment is power. All I've done is taken a good idea and thrown it out there so it can get more attention.
And you changing your vote on your *own idea* just proves what I said in my last post. You people really are just here for the sake of arguing. Anything pvp related gets a huge ass thumbs down because despite what you say about wanting more pvp you keep lumping in pvp enthusiasts together as if they were another kind of breed of player apart from what you are or something.
It's amazing to me that people refuse to acknowledge such an easy, grief free switch to make the game better for nearly everyone. I guess I can't blame you, we've had one system after another ripped out from under our feet with excuses, so yes I believe in something similar to brain washing. People have taken every little thing the middle man has said and believed it with a full heart, it's quite sad actually.
Example? Here we are looking at a video unlock on the hype site where Jay *admits* to the team having a release date for 2011 settled back before the beta began, "despite what people think". It's amazing how people just clung to every little thing they've said without objectively thinking for themselves about why certain things are happening and why and being able to look at things with eyes wide open.
I have asked for the negative side of this argument, and the only arguments I've seen have simply not been strong enough. Resources? You might get griefed if you add a dbag to your friends list one time? Come on. I thought this was diablo, not fairy dragon unicorn raider deluxe.
I suggested the idea as a solution to fix the complaint that a few posters here on the forum had with wanting duels, so yes it was my suggestion. However, listening to people post about it shows me that all offering this would do is to give fuel to people complaining that dueling/hostility isn't in public. Its not a fix for a problem, nor would it make the game better for everyone. The majority of Diablo 3 players probably would never use the features. Especially if Blizzard just adds a 1v1 or FFA Arena type. This would only cater to a small group of Diablo 2 players that cannot cope with change. I don't mean to say it in such a harsh way, but I see no other way to say it.
Diablo 3 will have a rather integrated and fun PvP system from what Blizzard has shown us. I see no reason at all for them to devote any resources to adding features like these when they will likely cause more problems then solutions. If they were to add these features to private only, you won't see me complaining about them...but I'm certainly not going to push for their existence.
Look at those that post supporting your side, Kodachii...they tend to flame, troll, harass, insult, etc. Do you think that the majority of us want more people with that mentality? Do we want features that encourage more people to be like them? I certainly don't...
I think it comes down to fact the PvM'ers keep saying "Oh im fine with the PvP as is, and some others are too!" Yea....you arn't a pvper, the PvP'ers are not fine with what is offered thus far. So why are you even in the discussion if you arn't even going to be a real PvP'er? What input do you honestly have to give to experienced PvP'ers about the matter? Like me going into a PvM forum and saying "The game is to easy on inferno please buff everything" when everyone else is getting stomped. My input is not on the same level as a PvM'ers when it comes to that and your input is not on same level as a PvP'ers on this.
Honestly, I am someone who is very interested in PvP in Diablo 3. So it is in my interest to promote features to Diablo 3 that will make the experience more enjoyable for myself. I'm sorry but just because I also defend the PvM player's rights to have their PvM experience without having PvP forced upon them, doesn't mean I don't deserve to have opinions on PvP as well.
You honestly need to come off your high horse. Blizzard isn't making this game just for you. They are making it for a much larger fan-base that predominantly is PvM focused. Blizzard doesn't make decisions about their games without doing research, This means that you probably aren't even part of the target market for Diablo 3 at all. They are focusing the game towards PvM and a more casual PvP experience, so how is the opinion of a player that wants to force PvP on other players more important then someone that is part of their target market?
While everyone's entitled to their own opinion I swear a few posters here like to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, just that there appears to be a lot of pvM talk in what should have been the pvp forums and since people who want next to nothing to do with pvp and are in love with PvM are posting here a lot of these threads are bound to become condesending rather quickly because it isn't likely that two people on opposite sides, both with zero tolerance will agree with each other.
And the bit about doing real life (amongst other things) isn't particularly a great point, in terms of my situation. I will have to set aside specific times to even be able to play, personally. I'm a busy person. I didn't have the time to jump circles in WoW and I barely played enough games in sc2 to keep my league displayed. I play (total gaming) maybe 2 hours a week right now on steam with a few friends and family members. Maybe if I were a worthless slob who contributed nothing to the world and sat around jumping circles all day and inflating the multiplayer auction houses with my amazing farm antics it'd be much better advice, albeit I figure the original poster of the idea was half joking, like most things on these forums it got picked up and ran away with.
The talk about PvM is important because it seems like you PvP focused players have forgotten that this is a PvM focused game. PvP'ing in Arena is the added feature for those that want something EXTRA to do. So asking Blizzard to add more EXTRAS and expecting them to be the primary focus for development is quite silly. I have offered compromises between the sides, but honestly, most of the time the PvP side just wants to bring back Diablo 2. If you honestly want Diablo 2 that badly, go play it. Diablo 3 is a new game with a new PvP system. Diablo 2's PvP system really has no place in it as the overall game's design has changed.
Honestly, I'm changing my vote. I don't think either of these features needs to be a part of the game, I get the feeling that they are only a gateway to frustrating other players and its made evident by the PvP posters here. You PvP focused players should sit down and look at the game you're trying to suggest features for and come up with features that fit within this new design. Stop trying to take 10+ year old game features and shove them into a brand new game just because they are what you know. Perhaps then there will be more common ground to be found.
Such a minor benefit? Ha, to you and your select few buddies maybe.
Also is it impossible for Blizzard to say no? Apparently not, not everything with PvP needs to be an "esport" feature and that pathetic excuse doesn't deserve to be brought up in every argument you make. Get off esports, it has nothing to do with anything we are talking about ha. No way in what we are asking for is going to get people to go "WOW THIS WOULD BE FANTASTIC AS AN ESPORT!!".
Did you not read what I said? I was not saying it was an eSport feature. Go back and carefully reread link. I specifically stated that I used their stance on eSports AS A PARALLEL, to explain why they might have similar issues with these features. Not because these features are eSport related, but because these features would create an expectation that Blizzard obviously doesn't want (public world PvP).
I also wasn't stating these features SHOULDN'T be implemented. If you actually check the votes, I voted for both. I'm trying to explain why Blizzard still might not accept these kind of features.. and that is because they set a precedent.... they make hostility ok in private games, which opens the floodgates for people to say that it needs to be in public as well. Hostility in public is a terrible idea, and as such I can see why even private might not be accepted. That doesn't mean I am against private duels/hostility... it just means that I understand why it might be seen as a bad idea.
To be honest it's instanced pvp that makes a game into an esport more than open world hostility/dueling (in private only games). I know this because like many of you I've been along for the entire wow/starcraft ride from day 1 and I've seen how the arena and addons ran off with wow and because starcraft 2 is a ranked game which requires only 1 player per team it quickly became a powerful esport.
This suggestion is different. I don't like the whole mentality which states "we can't give the players something that *should* be in the game, just because it may give them the wrong idea and people will ask for more", to which the devs wouldn't even have to respond. I understand them not wanting d3 to be an esport, I agree with that notion, which is why I don't think the argument carries much weight seeing as how I agree in that d3 is at it's heart and sole a hack and slash (pvM) action rpg, and still want this change *because* it is only beneficial to the game in every single way imaginable.
I guess some people (and others are afraid that some people) just can't draw a much needed line. I think this topic is where the line should be drawn, personally I'd be happy for life concerning the state of pvp in d3.
You also seem to have taken my comments about eSports out of context. In addition to that, you state that open PvP "should" be in the game and I actually disagree with that. I am not against adding it but I don't think its a feature that NEEDS to be in Diablo 3 either. In fact, I think the majority of people wouldn't care at all if duels were arena only and hostility was gone for good.
That being said, I don't see a real reason to deny duels/hostility really besides this... It seems like a waste of resources as it is likely a feature that the majority of players wouldn't even use. As a developer myself, I'd certainly find it hard to justify adding a feature that the majority of my users wouldn't use. Its just not cost-effective, especially when nearly all the players demanding open-world PvP are going to pay for the game anyways.
This has nothing to do with esports, nor does it give the impression of esports. It is quite the opposite, I guess Blizzard is so weak of a company that if people complain apparently they have to follow. Now I know this is not true because they didn't change the art design, and they still offer us little to no PvP. So please get off the whole "esports" thing because I have proven that theory false in every thread.
Once again you failed to actually read my post or understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying this has to do with eSports. I was drawing a parallel between Blizzard's stance on eSports and people's stance on this. I was stating that giving people the impression that world PvP is ok for private games could lead to them expecting it in public as well. Creating a lot more negatives then the positive of being able to open PvP.
The problem with friend list only hostility is that tt doesn't eliminate the core problem of hostility. Non consensual PVP.. A griefer out to PK will attempt to befriend you first before turning hostile. Adding one extra step to the griefing process.
Yes you can unfriend him and yes he can't do it more than once per account. But that's a lot of painful effort for people who want no part to do with it.
From what I can see, Blizzard is trying hard to go the other extreme with D3 with regards to PVP as they did with D2. Back when, PVP was a free for all and any attempt to dissuade Blizzard was rejected. Was the game being targetted at the PVP crowd? Perhaps it was. Now the game is being targetted at the non PVP crowd with non consensual PVP being singled out as a deal breaker. Any system that will allow players to be PKed when they don't want to be will not be accepted.
I kinda agree there. It could create the exact situation you describe. In addition, that kind of situation would indeed be frustrating. Perhaps open PvP in general isn't worth the trouble for such a minor benefit.
This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.
Would also like to note that this would not force the devs to worry anymore about the game becomming an esport or the esports scene to run off with the game, just a way to kick back and have fun with friends while not hampering *anyone* else's gameplay experience. I'm asking for the negative side of the argument to be shown and so far, despite several "no" votes, I haven't seen a decent argument for not implementing a system like this down the road.
It is true that this would take some resources (albeit not many) somewhere, sometime, but if that is the only argument then you might as well just say pvp should not be in the game at all because you're not willing to make any compromise whatsoever.
Honestly, Kodachii, the only reason I can see for people saying 'no' is that they don't want to give a reason for people to complain about adding it to Public as well. I myself don't really mind one way or another, but I could see a point made that by supporting non-Arena PvP in any form is creates an opening for arguing for more open PvP integration and many people just don't want that kind of thing. They want PvM to be focused on PvM and I could see how supporting non-Arena PvP in any form could potentially lead to issues down the road.
It kind of reminds me of why Blizzard chose to outright state 'no eSport support'. They don't want to be put into a position where they are pressured to alter the design of their game because of eSport tournaments. I could see a parallel with non-Arena PvP. It would give people a foothold to complain that duels/hostility need to be added to public games as well.
I know that you aren't trying to push public duels/hostility here, but I do kinda fear that would be the result if these features were implemented. Still though, I guess I just don't really care personally as long as it is kept to private games.
Holy sheeee....I almost agree with you. It is a function that really doesn't need the high end programmers attention. It is something any of the lower end workers could code into the game at a later time. Still, odds of it coming I feel are like 0. I do however see regular duels making their way to both game types, not only because Jay said it was something he wanted, but because people are going to be annoyed to having to make 3 games to duel once.
Actually, Jay never stated that he wanted dueling in public games. What Jay said is that he wanted a means for HARDCORE players to duel to the death. This could easily just be implemented as part of hardcore-only arena and doesn't need to be a dueling function overall at all.
As for making three games to duel once...if dueling was added into private only games (the best option in my opinion) then could you not just play one game with your friends and duel with them freely in that private game? If you're joining a public game, its for the purpose of completing the content, not PvP. In a sense, its much like an instance in WoW, you join with the intent of completing the instance...not going off to the side and dueling one of the other members. Seems like it'd be best for everyone if any sort of duel/hostility feature was kept to either the Arena or Private games and noone has really stated any good reasons to the contrary.
From everything I've seen, Diablofans is one of if not the most popular fan sites for Diablo 3. In fact D2JSP doesn't actually come up at all in a search for "Diablo 3 fansite". So, I'm not sure how much an opinion on D2JSP actually represents the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3.
In addition to that, D2JSP only corners the Diablo 2 economy because there is no auction system in Diablo 2. With the RMAH and GAH in Diablo 3, you won't see the majority of players use any site like D2JSP at all. Why subject yourself to scams and shady deals when you can just sell them easily using a built-in system?
Oh, and I looked at the D2JSP forum...the only poll related to PvP in the first 10 pages was asking if people actually planned on PVPing at all. I had nothing to do with hostility or dueling. So am I missing something?...
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
Nope. Wrong. Explained multiple times and you didn't read. See previous topics/posts.
Can I get that $10 now? or does it go to him? Cause I sure didn't post 3 essays.
Welp, I suppose that's the end of this discussion. Hey mods, can we get a close here?
Your stuff?! So, you'll somehow hack Blizzard and get the exact numbers for number of players playing in private games versus public games eh? Because unless you can do that, you'll be waiting on Blizzard to actually announce something...which they might not do.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter.. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In all honestly, it means that dueling/hostility is a WORSE idea as players would be using private games even more and as such more exposure to the negatives. So, if you're right... the result stays the same.
Upset!? ~laughs~ No way, I'm laughing at your posts generally. I'm pretty sure I'd be posting a whole lot different if I was angry.
I never said Blizzard said anything about PvP. What I said is what did the majority of players do for PvP... to which the answer is... sit outside town in Act 1 and fight. Guess what Arena is?... joining a specific game to essentially sit in a set area to fight. Oh wait... Blizzard is ignoring their PvP player~base and making something completely different then they are used to playing.. I'm so wrong.
Did I say that the majority of players in PvM are CURRENTLY playing in public games? No. I explained why that was the case specifically in my previous post. So yes, I feel that come the actual release, we'll see the majority actually being public games. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it during this open beta.
I don't believe I ignored that fact. I believe I actually gave a reason for why it exists. Seems you chose to not read that as well.
See, the funny thing Adon... team battles are what the MAJORITY want. Health globes are useful for a more CASUAL play style. As for three games to duel once...well, certainly seems like Blizzard doesn't want you do run around dueling everyone...hrm...I wonder if that is INTENTIONAL...I just don't know.
If you haven't realized this yet, Blizzard is making these choices in order to make the game (including PvP) appeal to a larger audience. Why did the majority of players play private games in Diablo 2? How did the majority of people PvP in Diablo 2? Seriously.. Blizzard is making the game according to what the MAJORITY of their player~base want. You obviously don't seem to be one of those people... so perhaps the game just isn't for you? Perhaps... you should ~gasp~ stick with the game you love (Diablo 2).
Blizzards beta was primarily private games because it could actually take five minutes sometimes for the matchmaker to set you up with someone on the same quest as you unless you were skeleton king grinding. I played the beta very heavily, and experienced this myself on numerous occasions. Of course people are going to goto private games when waits are that long sometimes. Once the game is officially released and there is a steady stream of players at all levels of play, wait times will be way smaller.
I love how you won't even take the time to ready a post, but you'll manage to prove me right. Thanks! Its good to know that I have a great example to prove my point.
You're quite wrong actually. I have a feeling the majority of players will actually play Public games, both PvM and PvP. Why? Because its more fun to play with people. Your friends and family won't always be on when you are (unless you purposely play that way only) and as such people will generally end up playing with randoms.
In addition to my belief, its very evident that Blizzard's goal is to have people play together in public games, hence them making it so easy to dive right in. If they expected most people to play private, they would not have put the effort into making a public matchmaking system for quests and such.
I'm not making my decision based on irrational fears, or anything like that. I look at the way the feature would likely be used, how the PvP posters here act, and how the PvM posters here act. I'm sorry if that means I see something different then you, but I just don't see the future being a NEEDED feature. If Blizzard added it, I wouldn't be one to complain about it existing... but I won't support adding it right now. Its a feature that I see very little good coming from, while I can see quite a bit of negative resulting.
Again, I point you to the people that post here on behalf of PvP generally...is that honestly an attitude you want to promote? I sure don't. What would duels/hostility offer that Arena could not (assuming Arena got a FFA/1v1 mode)? The amount of people that would actually want to duel mid quest would be so minor, compared to those that would try use it to grief or complain that it isn't in public games. Sorry, but how can I justify supporting it?
I suggested the idea as a solution to fix the complaint that a few posters here on the forum had with wanting duels, so yes it was my suggestion. However, listening to people post about it shows me that all offering this would do is to give fuel to people complaining that dueling/hostility isn't in public. Its not a fix for a problem, nor would it make the game better for everyone. The majority of Diablo 3 players probably would never use the features. Especially if Blizzard just adds a 1v1 or FFA Arena type. This would only cater to a small group of Diablo 2 players that cannot cope with change. I don't mean to say it in such a harsh way, but I see no other way to say it.
Diablo 3 will have a rather integrated and fun PvP system from what Blizzard has shown us. I see no reason at all for them to devote any resources to adding features like these when they will likely cause more problems then solutions. If they were to add these features to private only, you won't see me complaining about them...but I'm certainly not going to push for their existence.
Look at those that post supporting your side, Kodachii...they tend to flame, troll, harass, insult, etc. Do you think that the majority of us want more people with that mentality? Do we want features that encourage more people to be like them? I certainly don't...
Honestly, I am someone who is very interested in PvP in Diablo 3. So it is in my interest to promote features to Diablo 3 that will make the experience more enjoyable for myself. I'm sorry but just because I also defend the PvM player's rights to have their PvM experience without having PvP forced upon them, doesn't mean I don't deserve to have opinions on PvP as well.
You honestly need to come off your high horse. Blizzard isn't making this game just for you. They are making it for a much larger fan-base that predominantly is PvM focused. Blizzard doesn't make decisions about their games without doing research, This means that you probably aren't even part of the target market for Diablo 3 at all. They are focusing the game towards PvM and a more casual PvP experience, so how is the opinion of a player that wants to force PvP on other players more important then someone that is part of their target market?
The talk about PvM is important because it seems like you PvP focused players have forgotten that this is a PvM focused game. PvP'ing in Arena is the added feature for those that want something EXTRA to do. So asking Blizzard to add more EXTRAS and expecting them to be the primary focus for development is quite silly. I have offered compromises between the sides, but honestly, most of the time the PvP side just wants to bring back Diablo 2. If you honestly want Diablo 2 that badly, go play it. Diablo 3 is a new game with a new PvP system. Diablo 2's PvP system really has no place in it as the overall game's design has changed.
Honestly, I'm changing my vote. I don't think either of these features needs to be a part of the game, I get the feeling that they are only a gateway to frustrating other players and its made evident by the PvP posters here. You PvP focused players should sit down and look at the game you're trying to suggest features for and come up with features that fit within this new design. Stop trying to take 10+ year old game features and shove them into a brand new game just because they are what you know. Perhaps then there will be more common ground to be found.
Did you not read what I said? I was not saying it was an eSport feature. Go back and carefully reread link. I specifically stated that I used their stance on eSports AS A PARALLEL, to explain why they might have similar issues with these features. Not because these features are eSport related, but because these features would create an expectation that Blizzard obviously doesn't want (public world PvP).
I also wasn't stating these features SHOULDN'T be implemented. If you actually check the votes, I voted for both. I'm trying to explain why Blizzard still might not accept these kind of features.. and that is because they set a precedent.... they make hostility ok in private games, which opens the floodgates for people to say that it needs to be in public as well. Hostility in public is a terrible idea, and as such I can see why even private might not be accepted. That doesn't mean I am against private duels/hostility... it just means that I understand why it might be seen as a bad idea.
You also seem to have taken my comments about eSports out of context. In addition to that, you state that open PvP "should" be in the game and I actually disagree with that. I am not against adding it but I don't think its a feature that NEEDS to be in Diablo 3 either. In fact, I think the majority of people wouldn't care at all if duels were arena only and hostility was gone for good.
That being said, I don't see a real reason to deny duels/hostility really besides this... It seems like a waste of resources as it is likely a feature that the majority of players wouldn't even use. As a developer myself, I'd certainly find it hard to justify adding a feature that the majority of my users wouldn't use. Its just not cost-effective, especially when nearly all the players demanding open-world PvP are going to pay for the game anyways.
Once again you failed to actually read my post or understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying this has to do with eSports. I was drawing a parallel between Blizzard's stance on eSports and people's stance on this. I was stating that giving people the impression that world PvP is ok for private games could lead to them expecting it in public as well. Creating a lot more negatives then the positive of being able to open PvP.
I kinda agree there. It could create the exact situation you describe. In addition, that kind of situation would indeed be frustrating. Perhaps open PvP in general isn't worth the trouble for such a minor benefit.
Honestly, Kodachii, the only reason I can see for people saying 'no' is that they don't want to give a reason for people to complain about adding it to Public as well. I myself don't really mind one way or another, but I could see a point made that by supporting non-Arena PvP in any form is creates an opening for arguing for more open PvP integration and many people just don't want that kind of thing. They want PvM to be focused on PvM and I could see how supporting non-Arena PvP in any form could potentially lead to issues down the road.
It kind of reminds me of why Blizzard chose to outright state 'no eSport support'. They don't want to be put into a position where they are pressured to alter the design of their game because of eSport tournaments. I could see a parallel with non-Arena PvP. It would give people a foothold to complain that duels/hostility need to be added to public games as well.
I know that you aren't trying to push public duels/hostility here, but I do kinda fear that would be the result if these features were implemented. Still though, I guess I just don't really care personally as long as it is kept to private games.
Actually, Jay never stated that he wanted dueling in public games. What Jay said is that he wanted a means for HARDCORE players to duel to the death. This could easily just be implemented as part of hardcore-only arena and doesn't need to be a dueling function overall at all.
As for making three games to duel once...if dueling was added into private only games (the best option in my opinion) then could you not just play one game with your friends and duel with them freely in that private game? If you're joining a public game, its for the purpose of completing the content, not PvP. In a sense, its much like an instance in WoW, you join with the intent of completing the instance...not going off to the side and dueling one of the other members. Seems like it'd be best for everyone if any sort of duel/hostility feature was kept to either the Arena or Private games and noone has really stated any good reasons to the contrary.