How official is their timeline but? In Cain's journal, the years apparently go by 'Anna Kehjistani', which means something like 'After Khejistani'. So, what happened at Kehjistan that warrents for a refresher on the yearly records? According to d3fans.net, it is the Dark Exile that warranted for the change. If thats true, then why call it 'Kehjistani'? I suppose it could be because the Horadrim originated from Kehjistan.
I remember seeing a timeline here somewhere quite a while ago. It was just an estimate, but it was apparently from someone official on the Blizzard forums. If I couldl find it I could see if whoever wrote that also says that the Dark Exile happened in or around the year 0.
The concept of the Nephalem isn't completely new. The stuff in the Sin War Trilogy does have roots in the Diablo games.
Ancients: "We are the spirits of the Nephalem, the Ancient Ones..."
Anya: "I believe that the Ancients were more than human -- that mankind has fallen from what it once was."
Also, I can support Veltras' dates. It says on the back of the Sin War books that it takes place "3000 years before the darkening of Tristram". And we know that the Dark Exile happened hundreds of years ago. I don't remember how we know, I just know that we know. But at the least, we know this:
Izual: "The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency."
The Binding of the Three: "In the ancient days, before the rise of the Western Empires, the dark and terrible entities known as the Three Evils were exiled to the world of Man."
'So long ago' and 'ancient days' clearly means it didn't happen recently.
I believe that every class (except for the mages) get their power from their nephalic side. Mages are different because they call upon the power of magic. But for classes like the Druid, Barbarian and Necromancer, they are using nephalic powers.
The Sin War trilogy basically let us know that anything a human does that is more than a normal human should be able to do is regarded as their nephalic powers being used. The whole 'let humans grow to their potential' thing did happen 3000 years ago, so it indicates that all the clans and orders that have developed since then are honing their 'birthright' powers.
Mages are an exception because the nature of magic is different. They were able to cast spells even when the Worldstone was taking away their 'birthright'.
The Nature of Magic
Magic is an extremely powerful force, the manipulation of which is carefully studied, frequently learned, but is never fully mastered. Enchantments exude an aura that can be sensed by many, but years of training are required to properly exploit the Mana that pervades the world.
Some scholars use natural manifestations to explain the workings of the universe. In a common archetype, the physical world is linked to the sky while the ethereal realm of magic is set as an ocean. If we follow this line of thought, spells are much like turbulence that occurs where the two interact with each other. During the Sin War, Demon and Angel alike wrought powerful magicks that threatened to tear the fabric of reality apart. The physical and magical realms began to blur and merge, which, in our archetype, would be the equivalent of a fierce hurricane.
The forces of Order sought to preserve our reality by limiting the power of mortal man. As a consequence, only the strongest wills can harness more than the most basic of magical effects. Even then, much energy is lost in the transition of power between the two Realms. As a practitioner of the arcane rate grows more knowledgeable he is able to create these effects with greater efficiency, resulting in spells that are more potent, have more endurance and drain less Mana in their casting.
A little while ago I asked Knaak about the size of the book, and he didn't say anything has been cut. So no, you're not missing out on any of the story. The difference is just with the formatting and stuff, no actual content change.
I don't know if anyone else knows, but I am unaware of the second person. And how he was able to do it? Tyrael just said that it was his sheer will to live that keeps him in limbo between life and death. Uldyssian's powers are based on his 'will', so yeah, it would have something to do with the Nephalic powers within him. Pretty much everything any human does comes from their nephalic powers.
Even seated, the demon was taller than Cholik standing up. The old priest guessed that
Kabraxis was twice as tall as a man, perhaps even as much as fifteen feet tall. The
demon’s massively broad body was black flesh, marbled with blue fire that burned and
ran through him. His face was horrid, crafted of hard planes and rudimentary features:
two inverted triangle eyes, no nose but black pits that were nostrils, and a lipless gash of
a mouth filled with yellowed fangs. Writhing, poisonous vipers sprouted from his head,
all of them beautiful, cool crystal colors of a rainbow.
After reading through The Black Road a little bit just then, it made me realise that its actually a very cool book. The whole Kabaxis thing is just awesome, and apparently easily overlooked (not many people like The Black Road).
I guess we can attribute all of our knowledge of The Sin War to Mendeln/Kalan, as he's the only one who remembers.
Note that the prologues of each book in the trilogy are credited to being "From the Books of Kalan". He must have written many books, recording those events.
The Sin War itself is what Demons and Angels call the war over Sanctuary, so technically it is still happening and continues to happen until Heaven and Hell are either defeated or leave Sanctuary alone altogether. It is confusing, I made a thread about it a while ago and thats the answer I got.
I think the books are called The Sin War trilogy because its kind of marking the beginning of the war. At the end of the books, both Heaven and Hell are aware of Sanctuary and both decide to leave it alone for now and see how it grows. This must be the point the war starts because a 'war' needs at least two parties to participate, and before this point Heaven was not participating.
Every time he builds up enough strength to try and battle them, he is defeated. Its part of the balance, that whenever Kabraxis returns to this world, a hero is destined to defeat him. However, things make a bit of a twist at the end of The Black Road. If you really really want to know, I can tell you, but its funner if you discover it yourself.
Tal Rasha was the leader of the Horadrim, and was the most powerful of them.
Here's the story of Tal Rasha and Baal:
Mephisto and Diablo, once found, were easily lured into the Soulstones. The capture of their brother Baal, however, became complicated when the Soulstone that was to be his eternal prison was shattered and fragmented. We found that while the shards still held the power to lure the demon to them, they could not properly contain it. Tal Rasha, a fellow Initiate who has been since immortalized in Horadrim lore, theorized that a mortal of strong will might be able to contain Baal within his own mortal soul. This sacrifice meant that the essence of any mortal so chosen would be forever tortured while locked in eternal conflict with the enthralled demon. To this end, Tal Rasha volunteered to contain the raging Lord of Destruction.
Piercing his breast with a shard of the Soulstone, Tal Rasha took within himself the essence of Baal, the Lord of Destruction. The Initiate's body was shackled, chained and buried deep within a tomb under the desert. The sacrifice of Tal Rasha has kept Baal imprisoned for many years now, and although the demon was imprisoned without the use of a whole Soulstone, we believe that our victory may be a hollow one. Should Tal Rasha ever escape, he would have the formidable powers of Baal added to his own. By ridding the world of this present Evil, we may have created a nightmare worse than that which we first sought to contain...
And yeah, I dunno why Marius said 'Tal Rasha' instead of 'Baal'. At that time, Baal was indeed fully possessing Tal Rasha.
Crucifixes in Sanctuary so far have no meaning. There has never been mention or even a hint of someone 'dying on the cross' or sacrificing themselves for mankind or anything similar to Jesus. Its all just there for aesthetics and allusions.
Soulstones are indeed fragments of the Worldstone.
Tyrael (Act IV): Now, Baal's army is searching for the Worldstone, the ancient source of all the Soulstones and their power.
I used to think that I read that Diablo is the strongest of the Three, while Mephisto is the eldest. But now I cant find the quote to support myself, so I'll just assume that I read wrong. Or maybe I was just thinking of that quote from Astrogha. I dunno, its debatable. He may be slightly stronger than the others, but likely not by much.
They know about it, that doesn't mean is was not hidden.
If it was not hidden then will didn't they invade ?
Why everybody saying the sanctuary is no longer hidden SINCE the destruction of the worldstone ?
They are either wrong, or they meant to say 'protected'. There's a pretty big difference between 'hidden' and 'protected'. Hell knows about Sanctuary, but actually being able to get to it, or whether they even want to get to it, is another matter.
You also have to define 'hidden'. If you mean 'cannot see/sense', then it might be somewhat 'invisible' to demons and angels, but its not hard for them to locate if they try. But if by hidden you mean 'unaware of' (like being stealthy), then no, they are certainly aware of it.
Its like when looking at a complicated image. Trying to find a certain 'hidden' object within the image is really hard, but once you know where to look, you can find it again easily.
I don't think the majority of Hell even want to take over Sanctuary, feeling that its a waste of time. Or at least, thats what Azmodan and Belial feel, and their followers would just do as they say.
Demons can enter Sanctuary fairly freely, apparently. Xazax came to Sanctuary, and even summoned minions from Belial in a little ritual. The minions were like spirits that possessed mortals, and eventually over time they would be able to rip off the mortal skin and emerge as their true selves. Then there's also Astrogah (Moon of the Spider), Assur and his demon army (Demonsbane), Andariel & Duriel (who came to Sanctuary when Diablo was freed), and the whole of Baal's army. I think demons only really go to Sanctuary if their master wishes them to, or if they are looking for some sort of power.
The whole Worldstone thing is very confusing. I'll quote the Ancients here:
Few are worthy to stand in its presence
Fewer still can comprehend its true purpose...
I'm gonna ask my question again since it got buried in those 2 pages.
How come we can dig in the ground and find hell in Diablo 1 if sanctuary is hidden (and not linked to hell) ?
(If it was actually Hell in diablo 1.)
Lol, Blizter, I always read every post in this thread, don't worry about anything getting buried. But these guys are right; Sanctuary was not hidden from Heaven nor Hell during Diablo I or II.
The sheer fact that Diablo was in Tristram is proof that he was aware of Sanctuary, because he was IN IT. The Prime Evils were exiled to Sanctuary by the Lesser Evils a long time ago, which lead to them being imprisoned within the Soulstones. If all the Great Evils (Prime and Lesser) know about Sanctuary, then the rest of Hell must know about it too. Even if there are a few demons in Hell that are unaware of Sanctuary, what does it matter? The Great Evils are in control of Hell, no other demon can do anything about Sanctuary anyway.
But I will still provide you with a lengthy explanation, just to be clear.
Scales of the Serpent, Rathma: Yet, the notion of the nephalem disgusted him and that is why he took the Worldstone—which had been created in great part as a manner by which to hide Sanctuary from the eyes of the High Heavens and the Burning Hells—and altered its resonance.
Sanctuary was only hidden from Hell and Heaven in the very beginning, when it was first created. Hell ended up finding out about it somehow, and thus brought the upon the Triune. The Prime Evils sent representatives of themselves (Astrogah, Goolag and Lucion) to Sanctuary to create the Triune and try to convert the mortals to Hell's side. The whole Sin War trilogy is about fighting to keep Sanctuary hidden from Heaven, and to eradicate the establishments of Hell.
At the time of the Sin War trilogy (3000 years before DI), Hell (including the Prime Evils) obviously knew of Sanctuary, but they weren't trying to destroy it. They were trying to use it and convert it to their side as a weapon against the High Heavens.
Scales of the Serpent: Rathma speaks of his father’s folly, the dragon explained. The folly of keeping Sanctuary secret from those beyond. The Burning Hells know already…and thanks to Lilith’s insanity, the High Heavens will also soon discover this realm…
...
And so, even if Lilith is foiled and Inarius offers peace…an improbable thing…it is very likely that Sanctuary and all within it—being that which not even the most powerful of either side could have once imagined—will still be destroyed.
“But why?”
There was that in the shifting of Trag’Oul that hinted to Mendeln how disturbed even the great creature was concerning what they discussed. It is what the demons and angels do whenever they come across a potent potential advantage. They fight over it until they destroy the very thing they desire…a fate, sadly, that is better than becoming the fodder for either…
Heaven, on the other hand, would want to destroy Sanctuary at first sight, as it feels that such a thing is an abomination. Uldyssian and everyone else feared that if Heaven ever found out about Sanctuary, they would simply wipe it out. It was also feared that Inarius would just wipe out Sanctuary and start the whole world again from scratch - but he didn't do it because he grew too attached to it.
During the Trilogy, Tyrael discovers Sanctuary and checks it out first before telling the rest of the council. At first he hated them, but soon learned of their importance and potential.
As much as everyone tried, the High Heavens eventually became aware of Sanctuary by the end of the Sin War Trilogy, and thus sent their army to battle Hell's army on Sanctuary. There was a magnificant battle, with the edyrem caught in between.
The Veiled Prophet: For now the sky looked as if it were not real, as if it were instead a vast drawing on a gargantuan piece of parchment. More impossible, that parchment had a vast rip running across it, a literal rip in the sky.
And through that tear flowed an astounding, breathtaking sawm of magnificent beings whose armour gleamed brighter than the sun and whose many wings created a dazzling display of colours unmatched upon the mortal plane. The armed hosts of the High Heavens spilled out over the world.
...
The Burning Hells had come to have their say in the fate of Sanctuary. The demons were not like the angels. They had no uniformity save their savageness. They did not come in rank upon rank but spilled out like water, quickly covering vast round, then rising up into the sky.
The battle ended with the capture of Inarius and a pact made with the Angiris Council and Mephisto (as representative of the Prime Evils). From this point on, both sides would leave Sanctuary alone to see how they develop. Neither Heaven nor Hell were to interfere, (or at least, only subtle influence was allowed). BACK TO THE BEGINNING, Tyrael reiterated. AND FROM THERE, WE SHALL LEAVE THEM TO THEIR OWN DESTINY, WHETHER GOOD OR ILL, FOR AS LONG AS THE TRUCE HOLDS.
The pact didn't last long though. We don't know for sure how long it was until it was broken, but it likely didn't take very long. The most obvious point of interference was with the Dark Exile, when the Three were 'exiled' to Sanctuary by Azmodan and Belial. But then there's also Diablo's favoured baron Assur who came to Sanctuary 600 years before that.
The Worldstone hided Sanctuary for some time, but ever since these events some 3000 years ago, both Heaven and Hell have been fully aware of its existence. Once you know where something is, you can't just forget its location - especially not with Angels or Demons. That would just be stupid.
Further proof that Heaven and Hell knew of Sanctuary during Diablo I and II:
DI manual excerpt: The Sin War The coming of the Great Conflict to the mortal realm is known as the Sin War. Angels and Demons, disguising themselves while traveling amongst men, attempted to secretly lure mortals to their respective causes. Over time, the forces of Darkness discovered that mortals responded much more to brute force than to subtle coercion, and so began to terrorize Man into submission. The Angels fought to defend humanity against this demonic oppression, but all too often their austere methods and severe punishments succeeded only in alienating those whom they sought to protect.
_________________
This is how Tristram's monastery turned into something that resembles Hell. Whether it actually was Hell or not is unknown. I would say that it wasn't actually Hell, it was just Diablo's influence that turned the place into something that acts like Hell. All the demons in there were spawned from Diablo himself.
DI manual:
Pain and fire raced through the child's soul. Hideous laughter filled his head and clouded his thoughts. Paralyzed with fear, Albrecht felt the presence of Diablo within his mind as it seemed to push him down, deeper and deeper into darkness and oblivion. Diablo gazed upon his surroundings through the eyes of the young prince. A lustful hunger still tortured the demon after his frustrating bout for control over Leoric, but the nightmares of the boy provided ample substance to sate him. Reaching deep into Albrecht's subconscious, Diablo ripped the greatest fears of the child from their hiding places and gave them breath.
Albrecht watched, as if out of a dream, twisted and disfigured forms appeared all around him. Unholy, writhing visages of terror danced about him chanting choruses of obscenities. All of the "monsters" that he had ever imagined or believed that he had seen in his life became flesh and were given life before him. Large bodies comprised of living rock erupted from the walls and bowed to their dark master. The ancient, skeletal corpses of the Horadrim arose from archaic crypts and lumbered off into the red-washed corridors beyond. As the cacophony of madness and nightmares hammered its final blow against Albrecht's shattered spirit, the bloodlusted ghouls and demons of his mind scattered and scrambled maniacally into the lengthening passageways of his waking Nightmare.
The ancient catacombs of the Horadrim had become a twisted labyrinth of raw, focused Terror. Empowered by Diablo's possession of young Albrecht, the creature's of the boy's own imagination had gained corporeal form. So strong was the terror that grew inside of Albrecht, that the borders of the Mortal realm began to warp and tear. The Burning Hell began to seep into the world of Man and take root within the labyrinth. Beings and occurrences displaced by time and space, and long lost to the history of Man were pulled screaming into the ever-expanding domain.
The body of Albrecht, fully possessed by Diablo, began to distort and change. The small boy grew and his eyes blazed as tendril-like spines ripped through his flesh. Great, arched horns erupted from Albrecht's skull as Diablo altered the form of the child to match that of his demonic body. Deep within the recesses of the labyrinth, a growing power was being harnessed. When the moment was right, Diablo would venture once more into the mortal world and free his captive Brothers Mephisto and Baal. The Prime Evils would be reunited, and together they would reclaim their rightful place in Hell.
I just found a good quote as proof that there is more to the world than just Heaven and Hell:
Scales of the Serpent, Trag'Oul: The High Heavens and the Burning Hells create their own notions of their
absolute might. The dragon paused, then added, They will someday find that they are far from the ultimate masters of all things created…
Uldyssian’s brother seized upon the other’s words. “Are you saying that there is something more, something greater?” He recalled something that he had wondered about earlier. “The spirits of the firstborn; they have not moved on, but where do all others go? Where do the souls of my people go?”
To their rightful place…to beyond the reach of both the High Heavens and the Burning Hells and this universe of tragedy they have wrought… “What does that mean? How do you know all you say?”
We know because we know…
Mendeln noted the “we” and somehow felt it did not include Rathma. Were there others like Trago’Oul? Was that possible?
But the celestial beast said no more on the subject and Mendeln knew that, if he asked such questions, Trag’Oul would not answer him. Still, some of what the dragon had said just prior gave him hope again.
I believe that the Durance of Hate is a level within the Guardian Tower, and the tower is part of the Temple of Light. So yeha, basically the same place.
However, Mephisto's Temple is a different location, further south. Apparently its an old temple that was built back in the early years of the Sin War. Can't say when for sure, but its definitely a different place to the Guardian Tower.
Oh yeah, and thanks for reminding me about that thread, Angellium. I'll email Knaak about that now, I never got around to it last time lol.
The Smith in Act I seems like a shifty character. As all of the monsters were the humans/animals in their corrupted form, is there any idea who he is? Also, does he have anything to do with Hephasto?
This is the original lore regarding the Overlords. The Sin War changed this a bit, however, so now we aren't too sure on their origin now.
Overlords (Tyrannus Pinguis): Even the Seraphim are not immune to the corruption of the Dark Lords. One such angels, Inarius, was proud of his beauty and boasted loudly of his purity and worth. His thoughts became so clouded that he believed himself to be above both Angel and Demon, and he left the High Heavens to form his own dominion. He constructed a great cathedral of mirrored glass and crystal, and followers flocked to him, drawn by his numinous charm and wealth. Once Inarius had gathered a sizable army, he decided to prove his power.
Inarius first laid siege to an infernal temple devoted to the worship of Mephisto, but made the foolish mistake of overestimating his prowess. The armies of Inarius laid waste to the temple and killed the dark monks that dwelled within. The Three Evils had considered the vain warrior a mere nuisance and amusement until this time, but this was an insult that they could not bear.
Mephisto himself is said to have appeared at the cathedral of Inarius. He laid waste to the church and the surrounding countryside. The Lord of Hatred took the proud archangel and his followers captive. He bound Inarius with tremendous chains and slowly tore the wings from the back of the angel. Great barbed hooks were then used to stretch out the once glowing skin and his features were distorted by vile powers. Many of the followers of Inarius were given as gifts to Baal and Diablo, but the rest were molded to match the bloated image of the now crippled angel. To this day, Inarius is said to be trapped in Hell within a chamber of mirrors, his eyelids torn from his face as he is forced to gaze upon his misshapen form for all eternity. His misguided followers now serve as Hell's taskmaster taking the anguish of their lost glory out upon the bodies of others.
These grotesque demons have considerable brawn hidden beneath their layers of greasy flab. Do not underestimate their strength or their intelligence for crossing swords with them is ill advised. You will be far better served to combat them with ranged weapons or magic.
Note here the mention of 'anguish'. Andariel is the Maiden of Anguish, so it is fitting that The Smith would be with her.
The Rogue Monastery served as temple, military headquarters and home for the Sisters of the Sightless Eye for generations. It was here that the Rogues gathered in times of peace to train and in times of war to utilize that training. During the Sin War, the ancient Horadric Mages forged and enchanted a Weapon that also held the power to create powerful artifacts. When their union dissolved, this Horadric Malus was entrusted to the Sisterhood guarding the pass into the East.
When Andariel's deceit overthrew the structure of the Sisterhood, a great struggle between the followers of Blood Raven and those of Kashya, erupted. The Rogues were forced to give up their ancestral home and the Monastery is now filled with voracious hellspawn. While all of these dark beasts are dangerous, the Overlord who guards the Malus is particularly brutal. Known as The Smith, this vile craftsman now uses the power of the Malus to create weaponry for the minions of Diablo.
When the Serephim who followed the Angel Inarius into battle were made to pay for the destruction of an infernal temple by an outraged Mephisto, many were forced into unholy servitude to the Lord of Hatred. Inarius himself was bound with tremendous chains as the wings were slowly torn from his back. Great barbed hooks were then used to stretch out his once glowing skin and his features were distorted by the vile powers of The Three. Hephasto, one of the weapon smiths of Inarius that was corrupted by Mephisto, rose through the ranks of Hell to become a master armorer for the forces of darkness. While his place at the fires of the Hellforge is coveted amongst jealous Overlords, none dare cross swords with him lest he take the anguish of his lost glory out upon their bloated bodies.
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I remember seeing a timeline here somewhere quite a while ago. It was just an estimate, but it was apparently from someone official on the Blizzard forums. If I couldl find it I could see if whoever wrote that also says that the Dark Exile happened in or around the year 0.
Ancients: "We are the spirits of the Nephalem, the Ancient Ones..."
Anya: "I believe that the Ancients were more than human -- that mankind has fallen from what it once was."
Also, I can support Veltras' dates. It says on the back of the Sin War books that it takes place "3000 years before the darkening of Tristram". And we know that the Dark Exile happened hundreds of years ago. I don't remember how we know, I just know that we know. But at the least, we know this:
Izual: "The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency."
The Binding of the Three: "In the ancient days, before the rise of the Western Empires, the dark and terrible entities known as the Three Evils were exiled to the world of Man."
'So long ago' and 'ancient days' clearly means it didn't happen recently.
I believe that every class (except for the mages) get their power from their nephalic side. Mages are different because they call upon the power of magic. But for classes like the Druid, Barbarian and Necromancer, they are using nephalic powers.
The Sin War trilogy basically let us know that anything a human does that is more than a normal human should be able to do is regarded as their nephalic powers being used. The whole 'let humans grow to their potential' thing did happen 3000 years ago, so it indicates that all the clans and orders that have developed since then are honing their 'birthright' powers.
Mages are an exception because the nature of magic is different. They were able to cast spells even when the Worldstone was taking away their 'birthright'.
The Nature of Magic
Magic is an extremely powerful force, the manipulation of which is carefully studied, frequently learned, but is never fully mastered. Enchantments exude an aura that can be sensed by many, but years of training are required to properly exploit the Mana that pervades the world.
Some scholars use natural manifestations to explain the workings of the universe. In a common archetype, the physical world is linked to the sky while the ethereal realm of magic is set as an ocean. If we follow this line of thought, spells are much like turbulence that occurs where the two interact with each other. During the Sin War, Demon and Angel alike wrought powerful magicks that threatened to tear the fabric of reality apart. The physical and magical realms began to blur and merge, which, in our archetype, would be the equivalent of a fierce hurricane.
The forces of Order sought to preserve our reality by limiting the power of mortal man. As a consequence, only the strongest wills can harness more than the most basic of magical effects. Even then, much energy is lost in the transition of power between the two Realms. As a practitioner of the arcane rate grows more knowledgeable he is able to create these effects with greater efficiency, resulting in spells that are more potent, have more endurance and drain less Mana in their casting.
Yeah, Auriel is the only actual female angel that has been named, and Itherael is "neither female nor male in aspect".
After reading through The Black Road a little bit just then, it made me realise that its actually a very cool book. The whole Kabaxis thing is just awesome, and apparently easily overlooked (not many people like The Black Road).
Note that the prologues of each book in the trilogy are credited to being "From the Books of Kalan". He must have written many books, recording those events.
The Sin War itself is what Demons and Angels call the war over Sanctuary, so technically it is still happening and continues to happen until Heaven and Hell are either defeated or leave Sanctuary alone altogether. It is confusing, I made a thread about it a while ago and thats the answer I got.
I think the books are called The Sin War trilogy because its kind of marking the beginning of the war. At the end of the books, both Heaven and Hell are aware of Sanctuary and both decide to leave it alone for now and see how it grows. This must be the point the war starts because a 'war' needs at least two parties to participate, and before this point Heaven was not participating.
Every time he builds up enough strength to try and battle them, he is defeated. Its part of the balance, that whenever Kabraxis returns to this world, a hero is destined to defeat him. However, things make a bit of a twist at the end of The Black Road. If you really really want to know, I can tell you, but its funner if you discover it yourself.
Here's the story of Tal Rasha and Baal:
And yeah, I dunno why Marius said 'Tal Rasha' instead of 'Baal'. At that time, Baal was indeed fully possessing Tal Rasha.
Soulstones are indeed fragments of the Worldstone.
Tyrael (Act IV): Now, Baal's army is searching for the Worldstone, the ancient source of all the Soulstones and their power.
I used to think that I read that Diablo is the strongest of the Three, while Mephisto is the eldest. But now I cant find the quote to support myself, so I'll just assume that I read wrong. Or maybe I was just thinking of that quote from Astrogha. I dunno, its debatable. He may be slightly stronger than the others, but likely not by much.
They are either wrong, or they meant to say 'protected'. There's a pretty big difference between 'hidden' and 'protected'. Hell knows about Sanctuary, but actually being able to get to it, or whether they even want to get to it, is another matter.
You also have to define 'hidden'. If you mean 'cannot see/sense', then it might be somewhat 'invisible' to demons and angels, but its not hard for them to locate if they try. But if by hidden you mean 'unaware of' (like being stealthy), then no, they are certainly aware of it.
Its like when looking at a complicated image. Trying to find a certain 'hidden' object within the image is really hard, but once you know where to look, you can find it again easily.
I don't think the majority of Hell even want to take over Sanctuary, feeling that its a waste of time. Or at least, thats what Azmodan and Belial feel, and their followers would just do as they say.
Demons can enter Sanctuary fairly freely, apparently. Xazax came to Sanctuary, and even summoned minions from Belial in a little ritual. The minions were like spirits that possessed mortals, and eventually over time they would be able to rip off the mortal skin and emerge as their true selves. Then there's also Astrogah (Moon of the Spider), Assur and his demon army (Demonsbane), Andariel & Duriel (who came to Sanctuary when Diablo was freed), and the whole of Baal's army. I think demons only really go to Sanctuary if their master wishes them to, or if they are looking for some sort of power.
The whole Worldstone thing is very confusing. I'll quote the Ancients here:
Few are worthy to stand in its presence
Fewer still can comprehend its true purpose...
This is a map that Solomir created, judging from all the information provided (before DIII).
Lol, Blizter, I always read every post in this thread, don't worry about anything getting buried. But these guys are right; Sanctuary was not hidden from Heaven nor Hell during Diablo I or II.
The sheer fact that Diablo was in Tristram is proof that he was aware of Sanctuary, because he was IN IT. The Prime Evils were exiled to Sanctuary by the Lesser Evils a long time ago, which lead to them being imprisoned within the Soulstones. If all the Great Evils (Prime and Lesser) know about Sanctuary, then the rest of Hell must know about it too. Even if there are a few demons in Hell that are unaware of Sanctuary, what does it matter? The Great Evils are in control of Hell, no other demon can do anything about Sanctuary anyway.
But I will still provide you with a lengthy explanation, just to be clear.
Scales of the Serpent, Rathma:
Yet, the notion of the nephalem disgusted him and that is why he took the Worldstone—which had been created in great part as a manner by which to hide Sanctuary from the eyes of the High Heavens and the Burning Hells—and altered its resonance.
Sanctuary was only hidden from Hell and Heaven in the very beginning, when it was first created. Hell ended up finding out about it somehow, and thus brought the upon the Triune. The Prime Evils sent representatives of themselves (Astrogah, Goolag and Lucion) to Sanctuary to create the Triune and try to convert the mortals to Hell's side. The whole Sin War trilogy is about fighting to keep Sanctuary hidden from Heaven, and to eradicate the establishments of Hell.
At the time of the Sin War trilogy (3000 years before DI), Hell (including the Prime Evils) obviously knew of Sanctuary, but they weren't trying to destroy it. They were trying to use it and convert it to their side as a weapon against the High Heavens.
Scales of the Serpent:
Rathma speaks of his father’s folly, the dragon explained. The folly of keeping Sanctuary secret from those beyond. The Burning Hells know already…and thanks to Lilith’s insanity, the High Heavens will also soon discover this realm…
...
And so, even if Lilith is foiled and Inarius offers peace…an improbable thing…it is very likely that Sanctuary and all within it—being that which not even the most powerful of either side could have once imagined—will still be destroyed.
“But why?”
There was that in the shifting of Trag’Oul that hinted to Mendeln how disturbed even the great creature was concerning what they discussed. It is what the demons and angels do whenever they come across a potent potential advantage. They fight over it until they destroy the very thing they desire…a fate, sadly, that is better than becoming the fodder for either…
Heaven, on the other hand, would want to destroy Sanctuary at first sight, as it feels that such a thing is an abomination. Uldyssian and everyone else feared that if Heaven ever found out about Sanctuary, they would simply wipe it out. It was also feared that Inarius would just wipe out Sanctuary and start the whole world again from scratch - but he didn't do it because he grew too attached to it.
During the Trilogy, Tyrael discovers Sanctuary and checks it out first before telling the rest of the council. At first he hated them, but soon learned of their importance and potential.
As much as everyone tried, the High Heavens eventually became aware of Sanctuary by the end of the Sin War Trilogy, and thus sent their army to battle Hell's army on Sanctuary. There was a magnificant battle, with the edyrem caught in between.
The Veiled Prophet:
For now the sky looked as if it were not real, as if it were instead a vast drawing on a gargantuan piece of parchment. More impossible, that parchment had a vast rip running across it, a literal rip in the sky.
And through that tear flowed an astounding, breathtaking sawm of magnificent beings whose armour gleamed brighter than the sun and whose many wings created a dazzling display of colours unmatched upon the mortal plane. The armed hosts of the High Heavens spilled out over the world.
...
The Burning Hells had come to have their say in the fate of Sanctuary. The demons were not like the angels. They had no uniformity save their savageness. They did not come in rank upon rank but spilled out like water, quickly covering vast round, then rising up into the sky.
The battle ended with the capture of Inarius and a pact made with the Angiris Council and Mephisto (as representative of the Prime Evils). From this point on, both sides would leave Sanctuary alone to see how they develop. Neither Heaven nor Hell were to interfere, (or at least, only subtle influence was allowed).
BACK TO THE BEGINNING, Tyrael reiterated. AND FROM THERE, WE SHALL LEAVE THEM TO THEIR OWN DESTINY, WHETHER GOOD OR ILL, FOR AS LONG AS THE TRUCE HOLDS.
The pact didn't last long though. We don't know for sure how long it was until it was broken, but it likely didn't take very long. The most obvious point of interference was with the Dark Exile, when the Three were 'exiled' to Sanctuary by Azmodan and Belial. But then there's also Diablo's favoured baron Assur who came to Sanctuary 600 years before that.
The Worldstone hided Sanctuary for some time, but ever since these events some 3000 years ago, both Heaven and Hell have been fully aware of its existence. Once you know where something is, you can't just forget its location - especially not with Angels or Demons. That would just be stupid.
Further proof that Heaven and Hell knew of Sanctuary during Diablo I and II:
DI manual excerpt:
The Sin War
The coming of the Great Conflict to the mortal realm is known as the Sin War. Angels and Demons, disguising themselves while traveling amongst men, attempted to secretly lure mortals to their respective causes. Over time, the forces of Darkness discovered that mortals responded much more to brute force than to subtle coercion, and so began to terrorize Man into submission. The Angels fought to defend humanity against this demonic oppression, but all too often their austere methods and severe punishments succeeded only in alienating those whom they sought to protect.
_________________
This is how Tristram's monastery turned into something that resembles Hell. Whether it actually was Hell or not is unknown. I would say that it wasn't actually Hell, it was just Diablo's influence that turned the place into something that acts like Hell. All the demons in there were spawned from Diablo himself.
DI manual:
Pain and fire raced through the child's soul. Hideous laughter filled his head and clouded his thoughts. Paralyzed with fear, Albrecht felt the presence of Diablo within his mind as it seemed to push him down, deeper and deeper into darkness and oblivion. Diablo gazed upon his surroundings through the eyes of the young prince. A lustful hunger still tortured the demon after his frustrating bout for control over Leoric, but the nightmares of the boy provided ample substance to sate him. Reaching deep into Albrecht's subconscious, Diablo ripped the greatest fears of the child from their hiding places and gave them breath.
Albrecht watched, as if out of a dream, twisted and disfigured forms appeared all around him. Unholy, writhing visages of terror danced about him chanting choruses of obscenities. All of the "monsters" that he had ever imagined or believed that he had seen in his life became flesh and were given life before him. Large bodies comprised of living rock erupted from the walls and bowed to their dark master. The ancient, skeletal corpses of the Horadrim arose from archaic crypts and lumbered off into the red-washed corridors beyond. As the cacophony of madness and nightmares hammered its final blow against Albrecht's shattered spirit, the bloodlusted ghouls and demons of his mind scattered and scrambled maniacally into the lengthening passageways of his waking Nightmare.
The ancient catacombs of the Horadrim had become a twisted labyrinth of raw, focused Terror. Empowered by Diablo's possession of young Albrecht, the creature's of the boy's own imagination had gained corporeal form. So strong was the terror that grew inside of Albrecht, that the borders of the Mortal realm began to warp and tear. The Burning Hell began to seep into the world of Man and take root within the labyrinth. Beings and occurrences displaced by time and space, and long lost to the history of Man were pulled screaming into the ever-expanding domain.
The body of Albrecht, fully possessed by Diablo, began to distort and change. The small boy grew and his eyes blazed as tendril-like spines ripped through his flesh. Great, arched horns erupted from Albrecht's skull as Diablo altered the form of the child to match that of his demonic body. Deep within the recesses of the labyrinth, a growing power was being harnessed. When the moment was right, Diablo would venture once more into the mortal world and free his captive Brothers Mephisto and Baal. The Prime Evils would be reunited, and together they would reclaim their rightful place in Hell.
I just found a good quote as proof that there is more to the world than just Heaven and Hell:
Scales of the Serpent, Trag'Oul:
The High Heavens and the Burning Hells create their own notions of their
absolute might. The dragon paused, then added, They will someday find that they are far from the ultimate masters of all things created…
Uldyssian’s brother seized upon the other’s words. “Are you saying that there is something more, something greater?” He recalled something that he had wondered about earlier. “The spirits of the firstborn; they have not moved on, but where do all others go? Where do the souls of my people go?”
To their rightful place…to beyond the reach of both the High Heavens and the Burning Hells and this universe of tragedy they have wrought… “What does that mean? How do you know all you say?”
We know because we know…
Mendeln noted the “we” and somehow felt it did not include Rathma. Were there others like Trago’Oul? Was that possible?
But the celestial beast said no more on the subject and Mendeln knew that, if he asked such questions, Trag’Oul would not answer him. Still, some of what the dragon had said just prior gave him hope again.
However, Mephisto's Temple is a different location, further south. Apparently its an old temple that was built back in the early years of the Sin War. Can't say when for sure, but its definitely a different place to the Guardian Tower.
Oh yeah, and thanks for reminding me about that thread, Angellium. I'll email Knaak about that now, I never got around to it last time lol.
This is the original lore regarding the Overlords. The Sin War changed this a bit, however, so now we aren't too sure on their origin now.
Note here the mention of 'anguish'. Andariel is the Maiden of Anguish, so it is fitting that The Smith would be with her.