They are by no means whiners, and its a little insulting to call them that. A game that EVERYONE here has been waiting for, and only some get the sigils. The FoS is w/e noone really cares imo. The sigil is what I found odd about this. Giving us something that stands out on our flags that other hardcore fans can never get. (and there was nothing they could do to get it, unlike blizzcons and such).. its an odd move. Im still shocked by it myself. So FoS, really no big deal The sigil.. Its.. I dunno. I was surprised thats for sure.
What about all of the people who start playing D3 after the 8th or only learn of the game after the 8th? Because they are in the same boat with the Reveal Sigils. Funny though you don't hear people making a big deal about that, because they personally aren't being excluded from something. This is nothing new. The CE Sigil, the Reveal Sigil, and the Beta Sigil are all granted exclusive to certain people for doing certain things. Some are luck, some are effort and some are monetary. To cry foul in one case and one case only is why they are whiners. Most of the people have made statements that indicate it is about Beta Testers getting something rather then simply an exclusive Sigil. Few have been about exclusive rewards, but that will be true through out all of D3. Whats next saying its valid that Blizzard should nerf Inferno because not everyone can beat it to get that sigil? When is it whining?
But that's not even close to the same thing.
That's their own fault if they don't have the class unlock sigils. They could have been reading this site. They could have been following the game sooner.
They had control over missing those sigils. Even if it was due to a lack of knowledge. The people who are missing this sigil, have 100% no control. They are hardcore fans, and there is nothing they can do.
I don't know how much of a difference this would have made, but I feel that a lot of this backlash could have been avoided if we were properly informed from the beginning of the beta that a FoS and exclusive Sigil would be awarded to those lucky enough to get into the beta.
They could have advertised it like, "Opt in for a chance to get in the beta. Those that get in will receive a sigil and Feat of Strength for participating, so be sure to visit our various fansites and participate in their contests to increase your chances of getting in! Good luck everyone!"
I think things could have been handled better is all. Had we known about this from the very beginning instead of them springing it on everyone less than a week before launch, individuals may feel differently about how things turned out. Maybe? I dunno.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
There is no reason for the sigil. The only thing it does it makes those same hardcore fans feel left out. They can never get all the sigils like us, even tho they have been following the game for just as long.
So it is about being an elitism in the end. Why should only hardcore fans be reward with class sigils? Why shouldn't everyone that plays the game get the chance to unlock them? Why is it that only "hardcore" fans as you call them are the deserving ones of having everything and anything? Where do we draw the land onf pandering? You and 99% of the other hardcore fans didn't get a legendary to drop. Its only fair everyone gets it. You and 60% of the hardcore fan's didn't complete Inferno but its only fair that you all get the inferno Sigils/loot/rewards. You aren't some special snowflake just because you've followed the game for years, or are highly interested in it. You don't deserve something just because you think you deserve it.
Wait what? How are people that find joy in collecting all the sigils, and find joy in having all those little things (even if you don't care about them) elitists?
Im sorry but you're turning the argument in a 180 direction that has nothing to do with the topic trying to make it look like something its not.
once in game, its all about random. So what if only 1% of the people have rare X. Those other 99% of people, CAN still get it through farming or heck, even the RMAH. the option is there.
Blizzard has never done anything like this before in a beta, and I 100% feel for every person that is now left out of something they really wanted to collect. No matter how much work they put into something there was never a way for them to get it, that kind of sucks for them.
Just because you may not understand why they want it. Or you may not agree with why they want it, does not matter. They have their reasons, it and matters to them.
That's their own fault if they don't have the class unlock sigils. They could have been reading this site. They could have been following the game sooner.
They had control over missing those sigils. Even if it was due to a lack of knowledge. The people who are missing this sigil, have 100% no control. They are hardcore fans, and there is nothing they can do.
It is still a sigil that not everyone will get to unlock. There were plenty of non-luck ways of getting into the Beta. From twitter, from fan sites, from attending pax east and signing up at the Blizzard booth. You are arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand just because it comes from the Beta rather then another source.
That is illogical and shows how elistist they think they are. Just because they think they are some super fan the deserve every single reward ever given.
Having Class sigils not unlockable after the 8th is just as unfair as having Closed Beta sigils as a reward. Why? Because it excludes people because they didn't meet the requirements. Why does being a hardcore fan make you deserving of everything?
Wait what? How are people that find joy in collecting all the sigils, and find joy in having all those little things (even if you don't care about them) elitists?
Do you even read your own posts? You said the Hardcore fans are deserving of every reward because they are hardcore fans. That is textbook elitism.
And how could they really want to collect it, if they never knew it existed? If they never even had the chance to collect it?
That's their own fault if they don't have the class unlock sigils. They could have been reading this site. They could have been following the game sooner.
They had control over missing those sigils. Even if it was due to a lack of knowledge. The people who are missing this sigil, have 100% no control. They are hardcore fans, and there is nothing they can do.
It is still a sigil that not everyone will get to unlock. There were plenty of non-luck ways of getting into the Beta. From twitter, from fan sites, from attending pax east and signing up at the Blizzard booth. You are arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand just because it comes from the Beta rather then another source.
That is illogical and shows how elistist they think they are. Just because they think they are some super fan the deserve every single reward ever given.
Having Class sigils not unlockable after the 8th is just as unfair as having Closed Beta sigils as a reward. Why? Because it excludes people because they didn't meet the requirements. Why does being a hardcore fan make you deserving of everything?
Not at all, even with all the keys out there. There was still a VERY limited number compared to how many people wanted in the beta. The class unlock sigils have no end in how many people can get them. If they were following the game, then they got them.
What about those cosmetic wings from the CE's.... Its not fair that its limited and onyl a reward to those who are paying $100 USD. Where are my wings for the normal game? Do I get a special hat or something? WHAT NO!!! Thats not fair, CE was limited print and I didn't get my pre-order in time NO FAIR NO FAIR. Its the same argument.....it really is. Neither makes sense and both are retarded.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sometimes you don't always know where you stand... until you know that you won't run away.
Wait what? How are people that find joy in collecting all the sigils, and find joy in having all those little things (even if you don't care about them) elitists?
Do you even read your own posts? You said the Hardcore fans are deserving of every reward because they are hardcore fans. That is textbook elitism.
And how could they really want to collect it, if they never knew it existed? If they never even had the chance to collect it?
I know for a fact I did not say they were deserving of every reward. It was being locked out of something even though they were as much as a fan as anyone here (saying we are all hardcore fans) is what I was referring to.
Also, I agree noone a month from now that is new will have any idea what these are, and thats fine. The issue is people DO know what these are right now.
What about those cosmetic wings from the CE's.... Its not fair that its limited and onyl a reward to those who are paying $100 USD. Where are my wings for the normal game? Do I get a special hat or something? WHAT NO!!! Thats not fair, CE was limited print and I didn't get my pre-order in time NO FAIR NO FAIR. Its the same argument.....it really is. Neither makes sense and both are retarded.
Right there "you didn't get it in time" . Meaning they had control, They could have rushed and beat the others to it. It was their own fault.
(You could use that same argument I guess with Keys I guess, but people tried their butts off for those.)
A lot of people slacked on CE's and lost out. But they had the chance is the point.
Not at all, even with all the keys out there. There was still a VERY limited number compared to how many people wanted in the beta. The class unlock sigils have no end in how many people can get them. If they were following the game, then they got them.
The class Sigils end on the 8th. Anyone after the 8th no matter how big of a fan they are will not be able to get them. How is that fair? You keep changing the parameters for what is fair. First it was because people are excluded. Then it become Hardcore fans are excluded. And now the sole factor in when it is right to excluded people from rewards is "If they followed the game before it launched".
Why is it okay for the line to be drawn at "Following the game before launch" but not at "was in the beta" or any other number of requirements for rewards that Blizzard will have over the years of Dialbo 3's life. Why do hardcore fans or any fan that followed the game before launch mean more then new fans? Or people that missed the week you could unlock them all?
Not everyone has access to a computer 24/7 and might miss out on the sigil's despite following the game for years or being a hardcore fan.
A lot of people slacked on CE's and lost out. But they had the chance is the point.
And they had a chance at Beta keys. Both in a lottery from Blizzard and Fan sites. And in non-lottery forms from Blizzard and several fan sites. You are creating a double standard for beta vs CE rewards.
Not at all, even with all the keys out there. There was still a VERY limited number compared to how many people wanted in the beta. The class unlock sigils have no end in how many people can get them. If they were following the game, then they got them.
The class Sigils end on the 8th. Anyone after the 8th no matter how big of a fan they are will not be able to get them. How is that fair? You keep changing the parameters for what is fair. First it was because people are excluded. Then it become Hardcore fans are excluded. And now the sole factor in when it is right to excluded people from rewards is "If they followed the game before it launched".
Why is it okay for the line to be drawn at "Following the game before launch" but not at "was in the beta" or any other number of requirements for rewards that Blizzard will have over the years of Dialbo 3's life. Why do hardcore fans or any fan that followed the game before launch mean more then new fans? Or people that missed the week you could unlock them all?
Not everyone has access to a computer 24/7 and might miss out on the sigil's despite following the game for years or being a hardcore fan.
First off, Im using the term "hardcore fan" as in anyone using this site now. I could just say fan. But you're missing the point. Yes it ends may 8th, BUT ANYONE could be getting them right now. There was nothing stopping people from getting these other than a lack of knowledge, but thats something they have control over.
Why is it okay for the line to be drawn at "Following the game before launch" but not at "was in the beta" or any other number of requirements for rewards that Blizzard will have over the years of Dialbo 3's life.
Because people can control if they were following the game before launch. A lot of people couldn't control if they got into the beta. Even after trying multiple contest.
To everyone following the game, it was well within their own individual power to obtain the class sigils. If they missed out on them, nobody is at fault but themselves.
However, to everyone following the game, beta invites were outside of their personal power to influence. To the fans of the game, you fell into 2 categories. Those with beta invites and those without. You could help tilt the scales in your favor ever so slightly by participating in fansite contests and events, but ultimately the beta handouts were completely random and out of the fan's hands.
That's the difference between the 2. In one category, fans had direct control over whether they get their reward or not. In the other category, fans had very little to no control whatsoever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
Because people can control if they were following the game before launch. A lot of people couldn't control if they got into the beta. Even after trying multiple contest.
So now its control? Why should all fans get every reward? Why should someone that wants to get something be able to get it? You keep changing the logic you are using and applying it to different cases of the same situation. If the fan deserves the Beta sigil now, why don't they deserve to get the Inferno sigil just because they are a fan?
Exclusive rewards by their very nature mean exclusive. CE, Mark of Valor, and Beta are all the same exact situations of exclusive rewards that exclude some people. They exclude people in different ways but they all have the chance of excluding fans. The problem is that you are creating entirely arbitrary rules for what is proper and what is not. Even when those rules conflict with themselves.
That's the difference between the 2. In one category, fans had direct control over whether they get their reward or not. In the other category, fans had very little to no control whatsoever.
But why is someone entilted to something just because they are a Fan? Why aren't they entilted to CE rewards? They didn't have direct control over how many copies Blizzard Allocated for their country or local store. Pre-ordering earlier could have got them one, but same thing with Beta and winning a fansite contest.
This all comes down to elitism and entitlement. Why can't their be exclusive rewards? Why must everyone get everything just because?
That's the difference between the 2. In one category, fans had direct control over whether they get their reward or not. In the other category, fans had very little to no control whatsoever.
But why is someone entilted to something just because they are a Fan?
That had nothing to do with them being fans tho. Change fans to "people" and the point is still there
[Im replying to your other post still, give me a min]
But why is someone entilted to something just because they are a Fan?
It's not that they should be entitled because they are a fan. That's not the point. It's rather that people should be able to have direct influence over the in game rewards they receive. I can respect fans that don't care about and choose to not go after the rewards. However, the few that want said rewards but have no means of obtaining them regardless of how much they may want them, that's what bothers me and that's what I'm debating.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
It's not that they should be entitled because they are a fan. That's not the point. It's rather that people should be able to have direct influence over the in game rewards they receive. I can respect fans that don't care about and choose to not go after the rewards. However, the few that want said rewards but have no means of obtaining them regardless of how much they may want them, that's what bothers me and that's what I'm debating.
They had direct control. They had to choose to opt-in and choose to enter contests. Just because not every wins doesn't mean they don't have control. It also doesn't mean that everyone has to win when not every can win in order to be fair. The thing is though that not every person has the right to those rewards so it doesn't matter how much they might want them. They don't have a right to them just because they are fans.
A lottery is fair because it gives the same chances to everyone that enters. A lottery doesn't become unfair just because it gives a reward out to people that win but not to everyone that entered. Could Blizzard have given it out to everyone? Sure. Could they have done open beta too? Sure. Is it unfair, or is anyone cheated out of a reward? Nope.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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But that's not even close to the same thing.
That's their own fault if they don't have the class unlock sigils. They could have been reading this site. They could have been following the game sooner.
They had control over missing those sigils. Even if it was due to a lack of knowledge. The people who are missing this sigil, have 100% no control. They are hardcore fans, and there is nothing they can do.
They could have advertised it like, "Opt in for a chance to get in the beta. Those that get in will receive a sigil and Feat of Strength for participating, so be sure to visit our various fansites and participate in their contests to increase your chances of getting in! Good luck everyone!"
I think things could have been handled better is all. Had we known about this from the very beginning instead of them springing it on everyone less than a week before launch, individuals may feel differently about how things turned out. Maybe? I dunno.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
Wait what? How are people that find joy in collecting all the sigils, and find joy in having all those little things (even if you don't care about them) elitists?
Im sorry but you're turning the argument in a 180 direction that has nothing to do with the topic trying to make it look like something its not.
once in game, its all about random. So what if only 1% of the people have rare X. Those other 99% of people, CAN still get it through farming or heck, even the RMAH. the option is there.
Blizzard has never done anything like this before in a beta, and I 100% feel for every person that is now left out of something they really wanted to collect. No matter how much work they put into something there was never a way for them to get it, that kind of sucks for them.
Just because you may not understand why they want it. Or you may not agree with why they want it, does not matter. They have their reasons, it and matters to them.
It is still a sigil that not everyone will get to unlock. There were plenty of non-luck ways of getting into the Beta. From twitter, from fan sites, from attending pax east and signing up at the Blizzard booth. You are arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand just because it comes from the Beta rather then another source.
That is illogical and shows how elistist they think they are. Just because they think they are some super fan the deserve every single reward ever given.
Having Class sigils not unlockable after the 8th is just as unfair as having Closed Beta sigils as a reward. Why? Because it excludes people because they didn't meet the requirements. Why does being a hardcore fan make you deserving of everything?
Do you even read your own posts? You said the Hardcore fans are deserving of every reward because they are hardcore fans. That is textbook elitism.
And how could they really want to collect it, if they never knew it existed? If they never even had the chance to collect it?
Not at all, even with all the keys out there. There was still a VERY limited number compared to how many people wanted in the beta. The class unlock sigils have no end in how many people can get them. If they were following the game, then they got them.
I know for a fact I did not say they were deserving of every reward. It was being locked out of something even though they were as much as a fan as anyone here (saying we are all hardcore fans) is what I was referring to.
Also, I agree noone a month from now that is new will have any idea what these are, and thats fine. The issue is people DO know what these are right now.
Right there "you didn't get it in time" . Meaning they had control, They could have rushed and beat the others to it. It was their own fault.
(You could use that same argument I guess with Keys I guess, but people tried their butts off for those.)
A lot of people slacked on CE's and lost out. But they had the chance is the point.
The class Sigils end on the 8th. Anyone after the 8th no matter how big of a fan they are will not be able to get them. How is that fair? You keep changing the parameters for what is fair. First it was because people are excluded. Then it become Hardcore fans are excluded. And now the sole factor in when it is right to excluded people from rewards is "If they followed the game before it launched".
Why is it okay for the line to be drawn at "Following the game before launch" but not at "was in the beta" or any other number of requirements for rewards that Blizzard will have over the years of Dialbo 3's life. Why do hardcore fans or any fan that followed the game before launch mean more then new fans? Or people that missed the week you could unlock them all?
Not everyone has access to a computer 24/7 and might miss out on the sigil's despite following the game for years or being a hardcore fan.
And they had a chance at Beta keys. Both in a lottery from Blizzard and Fan sites. And in non-lottery forms from Blizzard and several fan sites. You are creating a double standard for beta vs CE rewards.
Because people can control if they were following the game before launch. A lot of people couldn't control if they got into the beta. Even after trying multiple contest.
LOL what? You know you don't have to agree with me, I don't care. There is nothing wrong with debating.
However, to everyone following the game, beta invites were outside of their personal power to influence. To the fans of the game, you fell into 2 categories. Those with beta invites and those without. You could help tilt the scales in your favor ever so slightly by participating in fansite contests and events, but ultimately the beta handouts were completely random and out of the fan's hands.
That's the difference between the 2. In one category, fans had direct control over whether they get their reward or not. In the other category, fans had very little to no control whatsoever.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png
I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
So now its control? Why should all fans get every reward? Why should someone that wants to get something be able to get it? You keep changing the logic you are using and applying it to different cases of the same situation. If the fan deserves the Beta sigil now, why don't they deserve to get the Inferno sigil just because they are a fan?
Exclusive rewards by their very nature mean exclusive. CE, Mark of Valor, and Beta are all the same exact situations of exclusive rewards that exclude some people. They exclude people in different ways but they all have the chance of excluding fans. The problem is that you are creating entirely arbitrary rules for what is proper and what is not. Even when those rules conflict with themselves.
Aight, aight. I get it. Someone be RIGHT on da internets, n' it ain't dem. Props dawg, props.
It's a good topic. B+
http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png
I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
But why is someone entilted to something just because they are a Fan? Why aren't they entilted to CE rewards? They didn't have direct control over how many copies Blizzard Allocated for their country or local store. Pre-ordering earlier could have got them one, but same thing with Beta and winning a fansite contest.
This all comes down to elitism and entitlement. Why can't their be exclusive rewards? Why must everyone get everything just because?
That had nothing to do with them being fans tho. Change fans to "people" and the point is still there
[Im replying to your other post still, give me a min]
It's not that they should be entitled because they are a fan. That's not the point. It's rather that people should be able to have direct influence over the in game rewards they receive. I can respect fans that don't care about and choose to not go after the rewards. However, the few that want said rewards but have no means of obtaining them regardless of how much they may want them, that's what bothers me and that's what I'm debating.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
They had direct control. They had to choose to opt-in and choose to enter contests. Just because not every wins doesn't mean they don't have control. It also doesn't mean that everyone has to win when not every can win in order to be fair. The thing is though that not every person has the right to those rewards so it doesn't matter how much they might want them. They don't have a right to them just because they are fans.
A lottery is fair because it gives the same chances to everyone that enters. A lottery doesn't become unfair just because it gives a reward out to people that win but not to everyone that entered. Could Blizzard have given it out to everyone? Sure. Could they have done open beta too? Sure. Is it unfair, or is anyone cheated out of a reward? Nope.