If you want a baseline for comparison, the full SNS build has an effective dps of about 6-7x your char sheet dps, so let's just say 7 to make LS have a good chance. The really highly geared SNS builds can reach 8x dps or higher, but I've only seen around 6-7 from mine so far. If you have 2.73 APS your LoH returns are about 9x per second (it's more like 8x for 2.5 breakpoint), though it does depend slightly on gear. Let's use a char sheet dps of 100k to make it simple. The results scale directly with dps so that 2x the dps means your LS is worth 2x the LoH.
3% Life Steal
100k * 7 = 700k dps
700k DPS* 0.03 / 5 life per damage = 4200 life gain per second
4200 Life per second / 9 Life per LoH = 467 LoH
So 3% Life Steal, the max you can get on a 1h, is worth only 467 LoH, which you can get on a Storm Crow or BT pants. You can get 900 on an amulet. At 200k dps it looks a lot better at around 933.
Blood Magic, if it doesn't work with shocking aspect (SA), would only give about 50-70% of that since SA+Storm Armor = 30-50% of your dps. I'm still not sure that BM works with SA.
Also note, if you use Energy Armor you lose the same 30-50% of the LoH effectiveness. Diamond Shards is another 10% or so in case you use Crystal Shell or Prism instead.
Loroese, where do you get your data for those LoH multipliers at the APS breakpoints when running SNS? That'd be a useful table. I'd even suggest you add it to your CMWW Guide, under the Advanced section. I didn't think running a LS weapon with full SNS would even do as well as you state above, but I know you do your homework. I just want to see the table .
I also think it would be quite hard to hit 200K dps, 2.73APS and have LS on your weapon; you'd need VERY good gear since you're either running 8 armor slots with IAS and a LS Chant's Will, or 10 armor slots with IAS AND an IAS+LS wand/sword/EF. I can't speak for the second scenario (which seems very expensive), but I run 200K CMWW with a 1166 Chant's Will, and if I dropped the 88% CD for LS I'd lose 40k dps. Not easy to make that up somewhere else and still maintain 2.73APS (I have 2.80). Even if I could make it up, my LS Chant's Will would be kinda sub-par compared to the rest of my gear .
Oh and also, just for clarity, using the Blood Magic rune would give you the equivalent of 25-35% of the LoH values you state above, because you lose the dps from Storm Armor (which does not trigger LS from Blood Magic), and Blood Magic is only 1.5% LS instead of 3% LS. This is why Blood Magic alone is rarely good enough to run SNS against Reflect Damage/Electrified/Ghom/etc.
Right, for BM I should have included the fact that it's half the life steal as a 3% LS weapon.
As for the LoH and DPS multipliers, I got them from my CMWW simulator. The results should be in the form of some plots in the second post in the thread.
Blood Magic, if it doesn't work with shocking aspect (SA), would only give about 50-70% of that since SA+Storm Armor = 30-50% of your dps. I'm still not sure that BM works with SA.
I tried to test this too. I used Magic Missle/Seeker as my attack. I cast BM then SA or SA then BM (got same results), then go shoot a zombie with MM at point-blank and look for an SA proc. The lightning strikes from SA don't trigger LS but of course MM does, so what I do is check the damage of a crit MM, check to make sure it proc'd SA, and weigh the life return I see from that same shot against the damage of the MM. This was much more tedious than the last testing I did (and cost me a few deaths standing point-blank with mobs in MP7), but as far as I could tell I was only getting life equal to .015 * .2 * (MM damage).
It's pretty hard to say though. The SA procs aren't a whole lot of damage and I'm not recording them as they happen, I'm only checking to see if they proc or not. Since I'm just reading the screen and not capturing frames or anything I'm dropping digits too (i.e. 101564 MM damage might have shown, but I only remember and record 101k because I'm also watching for an SA proc and the life gain at the same time). So it's possible my margin of error could actually be hiding some small amount of life return from SA, but I really doubt it. The procs will still do anywhere from 3-7k damage if they don't crit and around 3x that if they do, so I think I would have noticed the difference at least once in a while.
Thanks, I'll go check out that post again. I do remember your results you posted on that as far as damage comparisons when using different CM proc spells, but I must have missed the LoH returns part. TBH since I don't have MATLAB, I've avoided that thread since my first read.
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3% Life Steal
100k * 7 = 700k dps
700k DPS* 0.03 / 5 life per damage = 4200 life gain per second
4200 Life per second / 9 Life per LoH = 467 LoH
So 3% Life Steal, the max you can get on a 1h, is worth only 467 LoH, which you can get on a Storm Crow or BT pants. You can get 900 on an amulet. At 200k dps it looks a lot better at around 933.
Blood Magic, if it doesn't work with shocking aspect (SA), would only give about 50-70% of that since SA+Storm Armor = 30-50% of your dps. I'm still not sure that BM works with SA.
Also note, if you use Energy Armor you lose the same 30-50% of the LoH effectiveness. Diamond Shards is another 10% or so in case you use Crystal Shell or Prism instead.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
I also think it would be quite hard to hit 200K dps, 2.73APS and have LS on your weapon; you'd need VERY good gear since you're either running 8 armor slots with IAS and a LS Chant's Will, or 10 armor slots with IAS AND an IAS+LS wand/sword/EF. I can't speak for the second scenario (which seems very expensive), but I run 200K CMWW with a 1166 Chant's Will, and if I dropped the 88% CD for LS I'd lose 40k dps. Not easy to make that up somewhere else and still maintain 2.73APS (I have 2.80). Even if I could make it up, my LS Chant's Will would be kinda sub-par compared to the rest of my gear .
Oh and also, just for clarity, using the Blood Magic rune would give you the equivalent of 25-35% of the LoH values you state above, because you lose the dps from Storm Armor (which does not trigger LS from Blood Magic), and Blood Magic is only 1.5% LS instead of 3% LS. This is why Blood Magic alone is rarely good enough to run SNS against Reflect Damage/Electrified/Ghom/etc.
As for the LoH and DPS multipliers, I got them from my CMWW simulator. The results should be in the form of some plots in the second post in the thread.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
I tried to test this too. I used Magic Missle/Seeker as my attack. I cast BM then SA or SA then BM (got same results), then go shoot a zombie with MM at point-blank and look for an SA proc. The lightning strikes from SA don't trigger LS but of course MM does, so what I do is check the damage of a crit MM, check to make sure it proc'd SA, and weigh the life return I see from that same shot against the damage of the MM. This was much more tedious than the last testing I did (and cost me a few deaths standing point-blank with mobs in MP7), but as far as I could tell I was only getting life equal to .015 * .2 * (MM damage).
It's pretty hard to say though. The SA procs aren't a whole lot of damage and I'm not recording them as they happen, I'm only checking to see if they proc or not. Since I'm just reading the screen and not capturing frames or anything I'm dropping digits too (i.e. 101564 MM damage might have shown, but I only remember and record 101k because I'm also watching for an SA proc and the life gain at the same time). So it's possible my margin of error could actually be hiding some small amount of life return from SA, but I really doubt it. The procs will still do anywhere from 3-7k damage if they don't crit and around 3x that if they do, so I think I would have noticed the difference at least once in a while.