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Lightning Talk: 10 Items in 10 Minutes feat. John Yang
In the recently released Lightning Talk video John Yang talks about 10 items in 10 minutes, going over items like Shard of Hate, which was nerfed and then buffed back some time later, Furnace, the Bastions of Will and more. Watch it below.
Developer Insights - Set Dungeons
Blizzard released a blog about the process of designing and implementing Set Dungeons from their perspective. It shares some quite interesting facts about the Patch 2.4 feature, and is definitely an interesting read. Check it out!
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Patch 2.4.0 (and Season 5) introduces one of Diablo III’s newest and most exciting features yet: Set Dungeons. These static realms test your skills with various class sets, each carefully tuned around specific play styles. You may have even found that they’re a little (okay, maybe a lot) more difficult than your average Rift or Bounty!
What was the design intent behind these formidable new challenges? To answer that question, we’ve prepared this behind-the-scenes look at Set Dungeons, from their origin to what you can expect in-game.
What are Set Dungeons?
Senior Game Designer Alex Sulman, lead on the Set Dungeon project, explains that the gameplay experience for Set Dungeons will be way outside the norm. “They give you a chance to measure your skill. A yardstick of sorts,” he prefaced. “In a game like Diablo, there’s always something to do, so having something that’s more measurable and ‘beatable’ is different. It’s fresh.”
Inside an early version of the Shadow's Mantle dungeon.Why include a feature that plays so differently from the rest of the game? Some players need an end goal where they can say that they’re done. Similar to the Season Journey, Set Dungeons accomplish this by giving a definitive goal to work towards. Class sets take effort to put together, but there’s no clear “celebration” of this accomplishment. Set Dungeons are the light at the end of that journey.
As an auxiliary goal, Set Dungeons also provide a sense of competition, though not formalized in the same manner as leaderboards. Since Set Dungeons are timed, there’s always an opportunity to go back and beat your time, or share your times with your friends and compare who’s truly the greatest among you.
We intentionally avoided formalizing leaderboards for Set Dungeons for a few reasons, in part because it would have significantly delayed the development of the feature. However, it also combats behavior where, when a leaderboard fills up, players may be discouraged from participating. Allowing the competition to remain more free between friends or clan mates makes the feature more approachable. It may feel insurmountable to compete with a top player, but when all you want to do is beat your buddies, it doesn’t seem so impossible a task.
Game Jam – Where Set Dungeons Started
Every so often, a game team might need to take a step back and go off the rails – take an opportunity to stretch their imaginations and see what kinds of crazy ideas they can make work. Several months ago, the Diablo III development team did just that, working on any creative passion project they wanted before pitching it to the rest of the team. For Alex, that meant fleshing out Set Dungeons.
One of the slides from Alex's original pitch deck.The initial pitch is pretty much what you see in game today—a finish line for sets. The first set dungeon designed was Delsere’s Magnum Opus, and the response from the team was huge. There was a definite desire for greater challenge and testing one’s limits. Aside from some basic logistical questions, the team was ready to get this concept in game.
Iteration – Dealing with Design Complications
There wasn’t much iteration on the idea. “I’d brewed on it for a long time,” Alex says, indicating the idea was well formed from the start. However, no matter how great an idea may be, there are bound to be challenges you would never anticipate.
The biggest complexity was the introduction of multiplayer. Originally, Set Dungeons were designed as an exclusively solo experience. However, the multiplayer experience is an important part of Diablo III, and it just didn’t feel right to leave it out.
Playing Diablo with your friends should always be an option, no matter your goals.When adding a new feature, our designers not only ask the question, “how well does this play?” but “how well does this play on PC versus console?” When we looked at Set Dungeons from a console player’s perspective, we saw a situation where, in local co-op, one of you sits on the couch flipping through your phone while the other challenges themselves in a Set Dungeon. That didn’t make for a great multiplayer experience, so it was clear a resolution was needed.
“I didn’t think it would work at first, but my teammates really helped that part come together,” Alex acknowledges. Everything from how the game would handle multiple players opening different Set Dungeons simultaneously to how the UI would look upon entry was tricky, but accomplished with group effort.
Of course, this brought both internal (and, later, community) concerns. Does the inclusion of multiplayer imply that Set Dungeons are designed to be conquered in this manner? Not at all. Players will conquer each dungeon on their own terms. For some, that might be piecing the puzzle together solo, reveling in a sense of fulfillment and personal achievement. For others, it might be getting by with a little help from their friends. Ultimately, that’s a choice each player should make for themselves, in the way that best suits their gameplay style.
Strengths and Weaknesses – Different Sets, Different Stories
As with most design projects, there were bound to be pitfalls. Some class sets and their objectives proved more difficult to design while others came much more naturally, and each had their reasons.
For example, the Thorns of the Invoker set was in the middle of a full rework at the time Alex was putting together each Set Dungeon outline. Senior Technical Game Designer Wyatt Cheng, who was tasked with redesigning the Invoker set, came to the rescue. He helped Alex define objectives and ensure the dungeon would capture the heart and essence of the set’s new powers.
Tackling the Thorns of the Invoker dungeon head on!On the other end of the spectrum, the Barbarian Set Dungeons came naturally. Wrath of the Wastes was considered one of the best examples, and not because it’s touted as one of the more difficult. Its objectives really get at the heart of what the set is all about, which was the goal for every set. With objectives that encourage you to consider aspects like crowd management and utilizing Whirlwind to avoid taking damage as much as dealing it, it encourages a unique experience and highlights playing the game differently. That approach to objectives would become the expectation for other dungeons.
While not all the objectives came out perfectly, we want to avoid making too many changes. For example, there are a few objectives that may be too easily trivialized in multiplayer that we would like to address. We do, however, want to limit which aspects of the game we tune after release. For game elements that have a sense of achievement, we try to avoid revisions that could make players feel as though their accomplishments have been lessened.
Getting in Tune – The PTR Process
During the PTR, Alex was poring through player feedback every day. “I was mostly looking for tuning, but I paid a lot of attention to general feedback to what people liked and didn’t like as well,” he mentions, pleased with the overall reception. “The general response was exactly what I’d hoped for. It showed that the content is compelling enough to pursue and a great challenge.”
Some contributors, like Quin69 and Deadset, did thorough testing and shared their results.Bugs were certainly another high priority. Set Dungeons were a large feature that came in hot, and the faster and larger a feature is, the more bugs it’s going to have. The PTR was invaluable in this regard—we can’t thank you enough for your participation and incredible feedback!
Final Word – Good Luck!
We hope that Set Dungeons provide a refreshing new challenge in Diablo III. They may not be for everyone, and that’s okay. Divisive content can be good for the long-term health of any game, ensuring that there really is something for everyone. Set Dungeons are meant to be tough and deviate from the traditional slay-and-loot gameplay. Are they too tough? Perhaps for some, but you’re not alone in the struggle! Even our designers feel the pressure.
“The irony is that there are several that I can’t master on live, so maybe I’m not the best to give advice!” laughs Alex. However, he does have a few tips. “The number one tip is to check your corners. Don’t blast through everything expecting to win. There’s a certain playstyle that works in each, so pay close attention to them.” Attention to detail is important, especially if you’re looking to master each set.
Finally, if you’ve conquered every Set Dungeon, don’t forget to congratulate yourself! That’s no small feat. “If you see someone running around with those beautiful green wings, bow down at their feet! They have mad skills . . . no matter which way they chose to tackle the challenge.”
80% of the community? No offense, but did those players chose you to speak for them? Judging from the feedback to Patch 2.4, I doubt a significant % of the playerbase would agree with that statement. I for one couldn't disagree more.
Gotta add to the saying that says 90% of the statistics are made up on the spot?
Set Dungeons are boring and frustrating.
what would be good instead of a stash tab at the end of each seasonal journey, would be 6 ancient perfect rolled items (a full set) you could choose among 5 items.
Only complain i have is they forced us into this in the Season Journal.
So that this isn't for everybody is a bogus statement...feel like they are turning into the wow developers now.
They are losing touch with the true player base. It isn't all about the elitist....
I was quite looking forward to Set Dungeons, but unfortunately, what they've delivered reminds me of nothing so much as Guild Wars 2's jumping puzzles.
Sad to say, I don't think I have experience even one moment of pleasure from a Set Dungeon. Just frustration, aggravation, and then success giving a feeling of "thank god I NEVER have to do that again" rather than satisfaction at a challenge overcome.
I don't know if GloryJak's "80%" number is accurate or not, but I know that I'm one of his "80%" group.
At the start i was excited abou the set dungeons, then, after some time, i was very frustrated, cause it's F*CKING HARD (my opinion...), and when i complete 1 set dungeon after more than 3 hours of try, i receive nothing! jezz....
im not complaing... just... it's too dificult.. and thats kinda turn me off... the wings are cool... but... i dont wanna trade my hairs (stress = losing hair) for that...
I'd like to think I'm good at playing devil's advocate. In fact, the harder the opposition the more I want to understand the arguments of the other side. That being said, I have no good words for set dungeons. They are annoying busy work. Regardless of how positive Alex spins that interview. Kudos to the PR work by the way. But they serve as a wall to get over and never look back. Which pains me something awful because they'll more than likely be back next season. Hey, maybe they'll have a better iteration next season? T-That's about as positive as I can get about it.
Worst part of set dungeons outside of how annoying / unrewarding they are -
1) You suddenly have to keep all the gear you would normally salvage. Ain't nobody got stash space for that.
2) You waste ages respecing and swapping gear, often having to pull gear of multiple toons.
Hours I spent on doing one of them. Due to poor design / RNG, I almost gave up on the game and season. The swears of success when I finally achieved it were heavily outweighed by the hours of swearing due to failure.
Hate to say it, but 80% might be a little low. None in my circle of friends say they have enjoyed them. All they do is pull you away from actually playing the game - Killing monsters for loot / Leveling.
Why they spent all that time on set dungeons is beyond me. Its something most people ONLY did for the conquest. And will never go back to doing.
I for one only did it for the 1 stash. Not going back there any time soon.
The resources and dev time spent on set dungeons could have been used, starting a new class for next patch.
Atleast set dungeons could have been something you did to obtain a set for the class you playing. Instead of some minor cosmetic shit.
Ok, guys, time for a rant.
The set dungeons are boring, uninspired, lazy piece of, um, engineering. They have ZERO fun value, zero replay value and typically make me want to destroy the set after I finished the set dungeon and never ever play it again. Some dugneons are trivial, some a really, really hard (and by hard I mean boringly hard in unfun way). Chasing a single missed mob over entire maps, cursing the dungeons with abysmally low density, screaming at night at dungeons because my char has too much damage and that causes the dungeon to fail... The list of negative emotions goes on and on. And not a single positive one.
And the worst of it all, these engineering resources spent on this non-feature could have been spent on other parts of the game, making it better, not worse.
Shameful work.
I like it because i can see its potential. But not in its current form.
What's he supposed to say instead? 'a majority'? Then I'm sure you'd have a problem with that estimation as well. One thing about fanboys is that any negative sentiment will be challenged.
Think something is not fun? "well that's just your opinion"
A majority of players don't like it? "you can't speak for everyone"
A X% of players don't like it? "where'd you get that number"
blah blah blah, same old blind kool-aid defense
My honest opinions:
1. lightning talks are pointless, contribute nothing to the actual enjoyment of the game
2. set dungeons are boring and hate that they are part of season journey
"“They give you a chance to measure your skill. A yardstick of sorts,”"
HA, is that a joke?
Have they even tried their own set dungeons?
In what world are they challenging and "measure your skill"?
Unless skill is adding up 20 guys on your screen (UE - DH) and hitting them with 1 multishot... or not exhausting your discipline... wow, so challenging and what a great measure of your skill. Because it's so hard to count and not use disc! No, it's just really freaking frustrating, especially when you are 3 guys off from 20 and there's literally not big enough packs, and your stuck in that stupid Act V Malthael's area with skinny pathways and it's really hard and annoying to kite... with annoying spiders that slow. Ugh, just thinking about it frustrates and annoys me.
And the crusader's thorns set dungeon? Holy, so easy.
Some are ridiculously annoying and others are so easy it takes 1 run to master. None of them have anything to do with skill.
I think set dungeons are an absolute fail.
And I absolutely hate that they locked stash space behind Conquest... I am never, ever doing that. I will never dedicate months of my time for stupid seasons. I would rather PAY for them with real money (like one region can).... and then you have consoles who get it for free. Yet PC in America and Europe servers have to suffer through horrible conquests that are ridiculously hard and time consuming for the average player (unless they are a botter, of course).
I'm really mad about those things, otherwise this patch would have been great with all the new items and buffed sets (although... holy power creep)
Well speaking for myself and my friends set dungeons as they are now are just stupid. They maybe hard but they aren't fun. I agree with what one of the comments on the Blizzard blog said. I'd rather fight a big boss based on my paragon level get a hole bunch of loot and xp for doing it than do these stupid challenges.
instead of creating set dungeons you should have put time into balancing the sets better, half the sets of nearly every class are are just a waste of stash space to keep them; light and akkan sets, natalya, zuni, vyr, tal rasha etc. I don't mind if a set isn't the top dog when it come to pushing GR it's natural that one will be ahead but ffs some of them aren't even good at doing t10 efficiently.
I've done one set dungeon.
I'm not doing any others.
It's not rewarding and completely misses the point of what's fun in Diablo.
Completed all 24 on season more than a week ago.
There are some extremely primitive and poorly designed ones, yes; the best example is probably Arachyr.
However, the vast majority are really great - they provide some serious challenge. And challenge is THE fun of video-games - not being able to faceroll through everything. People who whine about how 'frustrating' those set dungeons are, should be playing Solitaire, not Diablo.
While some set dungeons are really hard to be sure, crying about the stash space being a reward for Conqueror is just ridiculous. It took me about 2 weeks of 2-4 hours a day playtime to unlock it without really even trying. And I did it with a monk. Currently after 1 month I am only a GR70 away from completeing the whole season with around 100 hours of playtime.
Just finished all 24 dungeons with mastery. And if I only knew all that I know about them now, I would NEVER EVER consider going for 24! The sheer amount of frustration with stupid requirements is just too much. In half of the dungeons you have to lower your DPS. Some dungeons I had to pass without an amulet, bracers, without any legendary gems and with no gem in weapon. This is just crazy. Some dungeons turned out to be trivial, some are very, very, VERY hard. And this difficulty has nothing to do with challenges, it is just due to abysmal mob density and other arbitrary and unfun requirements that have nothing to do with how folks use the sets, AT ALL.