I was really enjoying it right until I read the words "account bound".
D2 has zero account bound items (0), and works just fine, but D3 players seem to think that account bound items are the way to go.
If the system is actually fixed, no account bound items are necessary.
Couldn't agree more - but fixing it involves blizzard letting go of the RMAH and USD-GOLD cashcow and we can't have that now can we?
I think Blizzard's desire to milk the interconnectedness of today's game for money led them to homogeneous itemisation which ultimately hurts the game's replayability. Then to remedy the fact they add account-bound converting what would have been a fun "look what I got" item hunting game into a single player grind. Plenty of better single player grind games around...Skyrim anyone?
A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...
There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.
My suggestion:
- Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).
- Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.
- Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.
These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.
This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.
Get out.
Now.
The AH never was a mistake. Jay Wilson, as immature and dubious as his character was, was the mistake.
Also speaking of character, you sir have almost as many posts here as you have elite kills, I don't even know why I replied to a post as vacuous as yours.
And all those people hailing that D2 was the bee's knees - I'm sorry it isn't, it was good for a time when people were just starting to discover there are others on the internet. The hierarchy from Pgems to Uniques to unattainable rares/crafts/runes and gamebreaking runewords was archaic and ungratifying - nevermind the very few classes that can do hell decently with self-found. If you are still so blind, that game is still there with the open arms of powerleveling hammerdinbots waiting just for you.
Also there is the option for you to play D3 however you want - with or without AH - so if you want to wallow in your morally superior mediocrity the world doesn't care (neither does it care about all your awesome BOAs)
A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...
There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.
My suggestion:
- Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).
- Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.
- Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.
These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.
This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.
Bagstone:
I understand what you mean about not having any benchmarks. However because D3 is expected to have a lot of players and AH is the centre of gear progression, the chances of you yourself rolling all the correct affixes and THEN rolling the correct range of values is extremely unforgiving, to the point which it is easy to be demotivated. They have since added legendaries which act a bit like D2 crafted oranged...This has been great for you and me, I've found many upgrades for myself through 1.0.4, but has made the AH even more homogeneous.
Vertical progression, in terms of character power, is always going to be tied towards the AH economy, but how can we encourage players to progress horizontally - try new builds, have alternative gear sets tailored to those builds, etc...and no we aren't talking about things like Enigma which changes the entire flow of gameplay, we are talking more on the power level of say the Dream runeword - not overpowered but nevertheless interesting.
Serpenth:
You really hit the nail on the head on wanting to message the creator of the auction. The linear, min-bid/BO in 1d12h structure of the AH does not lend itself to flexibility. When I create auctions, I would have loved people to message me to make an offer. Right now if you don't care you can just list for minimum and hope your item gets noticed, or you can set what you think is a reasonable minimum only to relist it every 2 days.
Being able to trade packages is like the EvE contracts system - only difference is that EvE has so many ship classes and methods of earning income that the economy is already very diversified. It is hard to encourage that level of trade until we stop players all wanting trifecta.
Mastodon:
I agree there is a degree of fun to be had making a bottom line and flipping items in both auction houses. However with practice (and the windows clock), it becomes an almost mechanical process. And as you already pointed out...it's not really playing Diablo...you do it only for that bottom line....your character is irrelevant in this activity :<
Whenever discussion happens around elements of game design, folks pitch in with normatives which are actually their own personal benchmarks.
Example 1: Paragon...sure a very small % of folks have reached 100. You assume that this is something everyone finds desirable. Perhaps you believe the real farming starts when you reach 100 because you no longer need to wear MF. It should occur to any observer that the reason why all the customers are not racing to 100 is maybe...They don't care? I felt like I've been there and done that when Alkaizer finished the first 100 - that's fantastic, I can imagine the effort and planning he went through, almost as if I've done it myself. The extent of my desire to do the same ended there.
Example 2: Account Bound Craftables...Everyone sets their own benchmarks on how good their HF rings get before they call it a day...some do not have a limit. At this point, unless you come onto boards linking your profile, proclaiming that you have a quadfecta hellfire equipped...no-one will know! I understand that you don't want your neighbor to swipe his credit card and get a better ring - but here is the irony - you do not want your "achievements" to be any less meaningful due to trading...and yet without trading, your items mean nothing in the first place...
To give you all some perspective, my personal benchmarks have been:
Finished Inferno on all classes.
Finished the Ubers on a reasonable MP(7).
Enough dps to feel like farming MP5 isn't too slow (around 140 unbuffed)
HF ring with a couple of DPS affixes (after about 8 crafts)
Enough paragon to equip some of the legendary and set pieces which don't have MF and still maintain 300.
It does not matter that I clock in around one elite per minute or two while quadboxing, or that I have enough Keys for almost 100 machines...personal benchmarks mean nothing until the motivation behind it is communal - and making items tradable is a start.
Social needs fixed badly. If they can accomplish this, there is no need for what you suggested above.
I say this because if social was uptempo like we saw in D2, you would have a sizable Friends List. You could then trade through your network of friends, using your rules, no middleman.
I like the GAH. One thing I do not miss from D2 is the constant harassment from idiots, scammers and numb-skull children while trying to trade. I personally enjoy the cold, sterile and impersonal nature of the GAH.
If you want to trade, use the trade channel. Enjoy the litany of scammers though. Same thing you'd see if your idea above came to fruition.
I do agree with these points - it's the social aspect that is the core issue to address...a suggestion like mine is only one of many things to consider trying.
I actually enjoy the Auction House myself in some aspects, it's just that - being the sole source of player to player trading, and also gear progression for most people, makes for a very solitary D3 experience as a whole.
Other avenues of trading ought to be facilitated more competently...devil in the details and all that.
Just kidding I already have a job, although game director would definitely pay off my house faster...
This is a short list of what I identify to be the key areas of concern for D3. Some of them are a bit broad, and I will try to give some suggestions for each. Not really looking for agreement here, just what I think.
1. Why do people play D3?
- To play with friends? - A short-lived reason; plenty of games out there that have longer lifespans for social play. (See my newest obsession Chivalry in youtube).
- To gain a sense of achievement? - This comes down to the player...once they have achieved their subjective benchmarks they are likely to stop playing. Whether it's getting your first Hellfire ring or your 100th - no one cares! (Account-bound anything has always been a mistake for Diablo).
- <Insert other generic explanation> In a saturated gaming market, there will be other games that do a similar if not better job.
So asking why people play D3 is equivalent to asking:
1.1 What makes Diablo...Diablo?
- Gambling - No I do not mean that Gheed business...When a player fires up Diablo they go in with an anticipation, that the time they invest is like putting coins in the slot, with a hope that something valuable or at least useful will drop. Every aspect of the game is one RNG after the other - from killing a monster to identifying an item. The brain chemistry behind what is essentially "harmless" gambling is what keeps people coming back.
- Trading - What is it that the player wants to do with his valuable finds? To show it off and trade it of course! It is this social aspect, the "playing the market" metagame, that attracts people. With today's generation we are desperate to show others what we get up to. This is an ongoing, engaging, player-driven and systems-driven activity that has longetivity far beyond what comes in the box. Blizzard has really failed to capitalise on their playerbase and their Bnet infrastructure in that regard (more on this later).
2. What went wrong?
Blizzard should really have known better - that the current crop of gamers have been largely influenced by their previously successful titles (WoW in particular). There is now an overwhelming crowd of gamers who are obsessive goal-setters and power gamers. Even if they do not have the faculty to figure out the optimal way of playing, someone else would and they will be just one step behind with just the same determination. This helps us reach the following few conclusions:
2.1 Content and goal-driven gameplay merely delay the inevitable - Paragon and Account-Bound items are not engaging - sure they give players something new to do for a few days after the patch, it will all be consumed in a matter of days (even Paragon 100 didn't take that long)...
2.2 Adherence to "balance" is counterproductive - The moment players step into D3 they will notice Blizzard tippy-toeing around the awkward issue of "balance". This is apparent in their Skill-design, Monster Design and blatantly obvious in their itemisation...using the RNG is one thing, using it on bland stats on items is hard to forgive.
2.3 Homogenising items for the sake of Auction House devastates player motivation - Itemisation deserves a closer look because it is what Diablo is all about. Blizzard designed its items so that there is a smooth upgrade curve that is readily reflected on the Auction House. The reality after a few months is that only the very best items retain any value. While this seems like good news to players who just reached inferno...soon they will realise upgrading to the next level of gear, or even farming something which enables them to, becomes enough of a chore to suggest using real money, but not enough of a boost to really shell out that money. I'm sure there are players who reside on the tip of that upgrade curve, but the majority of players are staring at a wide chasm of unaffordable gear.
2.4 The auction house itself - coming from a quantitative analysis background myself, I feel that the AH is too efficient (in an economic sense). When there are enough flippers, botters and bargain-hunters sitting staring at the AH for days on end, the market will shape itself too quickly to a state I mentioned in 2.3. The way that the AH is designed is so that any price discrepancies are picked up almost immediately, leaving a market that is saturated with very similar items at very similar prices, at which point it becomes an exercise in volume undercutting which individual players aren't going to have much interest in. The AH is mechanical, impersonal and ultimately boring.
3. Next steps...
This is the part where I fantasize on being the new game director, and list some of the things I would focus on.
3.1 - Introduce an alternative to the Auction House.
3.1.1 - Establish specialised ingame "trade environments" with capacity for sizable numbers of players, with real face-to-face auctions and tools to display and make and receive offers on your listings. These environments can be categorised based on classes or reserves for example.
3.1.2 - Increase AH fees to encourage use of this system
The point here is to make trading a more social and tangible exercise, but without the painful lack of features that D2 had.
3.2 - Remove Account-Bound
Everything deserves a market in a Diablo game.
Account-bound is Blizzard's reaction to an overly efficient auction house. It's like saying "we cannot stop the immediate saturation of our shiny new content so we are too afraid to put it on the AH".
Given my suggestion in 3.1 - make these items at least tradable on a more direct basis.
Do not listen to the players who claim they need this "sense of achievement". They will not be there to play your game when they finish their "achieving".
3.3 - More interesting items - items which characters will build around
This will encourage build diversity without trivialising game difficulty, which is pretty much what Blizzard has done so far - made the game easier so more builds are "viable"...yet everyone still plays the same skills and even the same class because it is the path of least resistance.
If you've read this far, I thank you for your time and feedback. I've written this because Diablo still does something which no other franchise can do.
If you are a Blizzard recruiter, feel free to contact via PM and we can work something out ^__^
[i]You've seen MP10 Ubers kills, you've seen quadbox same-class farming. You've even seen naked DHs do the same thing for 2 hours straight.[/i]
[i]But have you seen...[/i]
[i]Quadbox Ubers MP5+......[/i]
[i]With different classes?......[/i]
[i]Under a reasonable budget......[/i]
[i]With 2 computers......[/i]
[i]Using 1 hand for each computer.....??[/i]
How is it done?
Computer 1 - Monitor in Portrait Mode to fit 3 instances of D3 through ISboxer.
Computer 2 - Regular instance of D3.
Right hand - Logitech G700 - enough buttons for all skills as well as ISBoxer on/off toggles.
Left hand - Razer Deathadder Left-handed edition - also enough buttons and comfy on the lefthand.
What classes and why?
The cornerstones of what I do involves:
Class synergy
Affordability
Survivability stacking.
Notable Skills:
Sentry (Spitfire) + Custom Engineering = Main source of damage on this DH, it does not work with crit but 83k with 3 turrets going at 200% each is a lot for 83k Charscreen.
Numbing Traps = -20% Incoming damage, works with Sentry.
Notable Skills:
Cluster Bombs + Grenadier = This is what makes boss HP bars move. At 25 Hatred, quite spammable.
Sentry (Guardian) = -15% Incoming damage when facetanking.
Nightstalker - Mandatory for Shadow Power without having a lifesteal xbow or using active slot for Prep.
Notable Skills:
Weapon Throw (Throwing Hammer) - About 5 seconds of guaranteed stun every 10 or so seconds.
Ignore Pain (Mob Rule) = Emergency Button.
Threatening Shout + Warcry = The main reason this Barb takes a spot. If i had better gear I would use a third DH.
Notable Skills:
Crippling Wave (Concussion) - -20% incoming damage.
Conviction - Why Monk is guaranteed a spot.
Serenity (Tranquility) - Frozen has nothing on my party (unless it's champion pack). Clutch emergency.
Resolve - See Crippling Wave.
Movement Skills - Vault (Acrobat), Furious Charge - Mainly for Zultun. Tempest Rush - (Move through farming faster).
What's next? For higher MPs here are what I would prioritise: 1. Convert 1st DH into similar dps Cluster DPS as 2nd. 2. Upgrade both DH. 3. Give Barb better throwing gear (not cost efficient since throwbarb is FoTM) Plus i would rather keep Throwing Hammer. 4. Give monk marginally better dps without losing survivability (also not cost efficient).
2xDH with 150K+ dps with low cost cluster is plenty for MP10 - will get there one day.
What else? There are other videos, including a recent one on my farming setup (which you can find the characters for in those profiles). Farming that involves Arcane Destruction. 8mil+ crits
Enjoy, comment and tell your friends! See you all in PvP!
I'd actually impressed that we are having a constructive discussion.
that playing the game and having the rewards from actual gameplay is a lot more enjoyable
This is a solid point and now I look at it, there is no issue with Blizzard encourage us to hunt for it ourselves on release, and then a couple months down the track when something else is new, allowing trading of the keys. I actually think that's probably what will happen.
What about taking a step back and just allowing KEYS to be traded?
After all to converting from keys to organs requires a concerted effort involving at least 5 stacks and 1 run of MP10, more if not MP10.
I'm not really pushing hard for it to happen, because I am perfectly capable of obtaining my own rings, but don't sit in front of the game all day to play the market. I'm just saying giving these rings an "indirect" gold value can only help with the one thing that allows D3 to stand out from competitiors - a comparison of gear values.
I guess the argument really is:
Does Blizzard want to follow player sentiment and do something TL2 does well, in an attempt to reconcile its playerbase?
or
Does Blizzard want to stick to its guns and work on the longetivity of the Auction House, which in turn complements all the other epeen stroking features such as Profile that D3 already has?
My stance is that the current crop of gamers is very promiscuous...nothing really will hold their attention for a long enough period of time. Also the current generation gamers are very social networking conscious, and are eager to show off and gloat their "achievements".
So after playing TL2 and repeatedly enchanting your items...what then? Make a youtube video to show off?
Diablo has an intrinsic system (the market) in place which makes players feel invested, but again that could be just me?
The average players would never need to actually kill the ubers to get the ring they just have to farm some gold wait a month and get their welfare best slot in game legendary.
To be fair, I think I speak for a vast majority of the playerbase when I say that we want at least a couple things that can't be bought in this game.
There's something different about things that can't be bought for gold/RM on the AH. The feeling is just different.
Have a think about it again. You are buying a chance to roll another ring. You are not buying the ACTUALRING with the stats you want. I'm advocating for a market an OPPORTUNITY, not an item. There will be a difference between what your average player considers to be a "good enough ring", to what your OCD godly considers to be...actually their rings can never be "good enough". Having a market will sort this out.
Getting a best in slot is very rare. The streamers can tell you they can identify 200 rings, and someone they know identifies 1...and guess what? That 1 ring is better than the 200. Having a market for JUST the components does not affect this variation - in fact it encourages it.
Allowing Auctions of components gives everyone an option to CHOOSE how many times they would like to roll the rings, and let me REPEAT NOT CHOOSE what ring they are going to actually get.
As it stands expect the streamers to sell mlvl10 runs for 20-50 mil
Thank you. This is the perfect reason why a market for Organs is superior to no market.
If I could auction them I would craft 2 rings (one for me and one for my follower) take the week off of work and just farm them as long as the prices stayed high. I can safely and quickly farm Mlvl 5 on the ptr, not as good as the streamers a little slow (about 1/2 there speed) but still would probably be making bank.
The two of you should step back for a second, and stop thinking about what YOU would do, or what YOUR feelings are.
You might get a fuzzy feeling that you rolled a decent ring on your first attempt, and then gloat in front of others, but what's really going to happen is:
You are a reasonably casual player. You have your decent ring, GREAT! Back to Paragon leveling....boriiiing! Back to borderlands?
You are a hardcore player. You have made quite a few rings....everyday you continue to do runs in the hope of a better ring...
What I'm suggesting is not for the benefit of your sentiments, but what is better for the longetivity of this game, and this game's defining product feature (because Torchlight has almost everything else D3 has).
Please have a read before posting your knee-jerk reaction. Thanks.
The Current State of Affairs:
- Paragon Levels has given players a definite goal to work towards, although the prospect of minute increases of MF/GF past a certain Plvl becomes rather grindy. It is definitely a step in the right direction.
- The Auction House is stagnant. There is too much of a value gap between "great welfare rare" to "desired roll legendary". I'm pretty sure Blizzard is looking at their AH and RMAH transaction volumes and scratching their heads.
- The upcoming patch is a great step. It gives players a much less predictable means of progress, almost to the point of gambling when it comes to creating the rings. This makes people keep coming back for that kick of adrenaline when the ring is being made.
The Auction House is the main attraction of Diablo; that there is a market value for your gear setup that is supported by a robust system. This is also the main product differentiation from other titles such as Torchlight.
I believe it is a big mistake for blizzard to not create a market for Keys or Organs (I'd say organs is the better route). The ability to channel transactions towards an item (the ring) which is account bound is key to resurrecting the AH. It means more gold supply (think money supply in economics) because the ubergeared will bring out their gold to buy the parts, the not-so-ubergeared has a way to earn some gold to upgrade their other gear. In the long run the ubergeared will continue to roll rings, and the market will have a base-line value of gold which is not (as) liable to depreciation as the current oversupply of rares and legendaries. (In case you didn't understand that last sentence: the rings themselves are still account-bound and will not flood the market).
My proposal:
Organs should be Auctionable.
MP10 Should not be a 100% guaranteed drop of keys/organs. Improved yes, not 100% drop. This defeats the purpose of having the MP slider because people will see MP10 as mandatory (isn't this what we are trying to discourage?)
Now here are some possible arguments against this idea and my response to them:
1. We want to move this game away from the "pay-to-win" motto.
Realistically with the introduction of MP the concept of "win" is relative. Someone not-so-geared can still feel success at a lower MP. Sure a rich person will roll maybe 10 times as many rings as your average player under my system...but after their first "good" ring they will keep doing it just in the hopes of getting something better. So all that gold they are spending is going down the sink. Which is exactly what the AH needs.
2. More can be added here in future edits.
While players are busy being excited about how they are going to get their first ring on the PTR, this is the real question Blizzard needs to ask themselves:
The Hellfire Ring will be a huge (and excellent) timesink...why not make it a money sink as well?
0
Couldn't agree more - but fixing it involves blizzard letting go of the RMAH and USD-GOLD cashcow and we can't have that now can we?
I think Blizzard's desire to milk the interconnectedness of today's game for money led them to homogeneous itemisation which ultimately hurts the game's replayability. Then to remedy the fact they add account-bound converting what would have been a fun "look what I got" item hunting game into a single player grind. Plenty of better single player grind games around...Skyrim anyone?
1
The AH never was a mistake. Jay Wilson, as immature and dubious as his character was, was the mistake.
Also speaking of character, you sir have almost as many posts here as you have elite kills, I don't even know why I replied to a post as vacuous as yours.
And all those people hailing that D2 was the bee's knees - I'm sorry it isn't, it was good for a time when people were just starting to discover there are others on the internet. The hierarchy from Pgems to Uniques to unattainable rares/crafts/runes and gamebreaking runewords was archaic and ungratifying - nevermind the very few classes that can do hell decently with self-found. If you are still so blind, that game is still there with the open arms of powerleveling hammerdinbots waiting just for you.
Also there is the option for you to play D3 however you want - with or without AH - so if you want to wallow in your morally superior mediocrity the world doesn't care (neither does it care about all your awesome BOAs)
0
A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...
There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.
My suggestion:
- Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).
- Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.
- Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.
These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.
This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.
0
I understand what you mean about not having any benchmarks. However because D3 is expected to have a lot of players and AH is the centre of gear progression, the chances of you yourself rolling all the correct affixes and THEN rolling the correct range of values is extremely unforgiving, to the point which it is easy to be demotivated. They have since added legendaries which act a bit like D2 crafted oranged...This has been great for you and me, I've found many upgrades for myself through 1.0.4, but has made the AH even more homogeneous.
Vertical progression, in terms of character power, is always going to be tied towards the AH economy, but how can we encourage players to progress horizontally - try new builds, have alternative gear sets tailored to those builds, etc...and no we aren't talking about things like Enigma which changes the entire flow of gameplay, we are talking more on the power level of say the Dream runeword - not overpowered but nevertheless interesting.
Serpenth:
You really hit the nail on the head on wanting to message the creator of the auction. The linear, min-bid/BO in 1d12h structure of the AH does not lend itself to flexibility. When I create auctions, I would have loved people to message me to make an offer. Right now if you don't care you can just list for minimum and hope your item gets noticed, or you can set what you think is a reasonable minimum only to relist it every 2 days.
Being able to trade packages is like the EvE contracts system - only difference is that EvE has so many ship classes and methods of earning income that the economy is already very diversified. It is hard to encourage that level of trade until we stop players all wanting trifecta.
Mastodon:
I agree there is a degree of fun to be had making a bottom line and flipping items in both auction houses. However with practice (and the windows clock), it becomes an almost mechanical process. And as you already pointed out...it's not really playing Diablo...you do it only for that bottom line....your character is irrelevant in this activity :<
0
Whenever discussion happens around elements of game design, folks pitch in with normatives which are actually their own personal benchmarks.
Example 1: Paragon...sure a very small % of folks have reached 100. You assume that this is something everyone finds desirable. Perhaps you believe the real farming starts when you reach 100 because you no longer need to wear MF. It should occur to any observer that the reason why all the customers are not racing to 100 is maybe...They don't care? I felt like I've been there and done that when Alkaizer finished the first 100 - that's fantastic, I can imagine the effort and planning he went through, almost as if I've done it myself. The extent of my desire to do the same ended there.
Example 2: Account Bound Craftables...Everyone sets their own benchmarks on how good their HF rings get before they call it a day...some do not have a limit. At this point, unless you come onto boards linking your profile, proclaiming that you have a quadfecta hellfire equipped...no-one will know! I understand that you don't want your neighbor to swipe his credit card and get a better ring - but here is the irony - you do not want your "achievements" to be any less meaningful due to trading...and yet without trading, your items mean nothing in the first place...
To give you all some perspective, my personal benchmarks have been:
Finished Inferno on all classes.
Finished the Ubers on a reasonable MP(7).
Enough dps to feel like farming MP5 isn't too slow (around 140 unbuffed)
HF ring with a couple of DPS affixes (after about 8 crafts)
Enough paragon to equip some of the legendary and set pieces which don't have MF and still maintain 300.
It does not matter that I clock in around one elite per minute or two while quadboxing, or that I have enough Keys for almost 100 machines...personal benchmarks mean nothing until the motivation behind it is communal - and making items tradable is a start.
1
I do agree with these points - it's the social aspect that is the core issue to address...a suggestion like mine is only one of many things to consider trying.
I actually enjoy the Auction House myself in some aspects, it's just that - being the sole source of player to player trading, and also gear progression for most people, makes for a very solitary D3 experience as a whole.
Other avenues of trading ought to be facilitated more competently...devil in the details and all that.
3
This is a short list of what I identify to be the key areas of concern for D3. Some of them are a bit broad, and I will try to give some suggestions for each. Not really looking for agreement here, just what I think.
1. Why do people play D3?
- To play with friends? - A short-lived reason; plenty of games out there that have longer lifespans for social play. (See my newest obsession Chivalry in youtube).
- To gain a sense of achievement? - This comes down to the player...once they have achieved their subjective benchmarks they are likely to stop playing. Whether it's getting your first Hellfire ring or your 100th - no one cares! (Account-bound anything has always been a mistake for Diablo).
- <Insert other generic explanation> In a saturated gaming market, there will be other games that do a similar if not better job.
So asking why people play D3 is equivalent to asking:
1.1 What makes Diablo...Diablo?
- Gambling - No I do not mean that Gheed business...When a player fires up Diablo they go in with an anticipation, that the time they invest is like putting coins in the slot, with a hope that something valuable or at least useful will drop. Every aspect of the game is one RNG after the other - from killing a monster to identifying an item. The brain chemistry behind what is essentially "harmless" gambling is what keeps people coming back.
- Trading - What is it that the player wants to do with his valuable finds? To show it off and trade it of course! It is this social aspect, the "playing the market" metagame, that attracts people. With today's generation we are desperate to show others what we get up to. This is an ongoing, engaging, player-driven and systems-driven activity that has longetivity far beyond what comes in the box. Blizzard has really failed to capitalise on their playerbase and their Bnet infrastructure in that regard (more on this later).
2. What went wrong?
Blizzard should really have known better - that the current crop of gamers have been largely influenced by their previously successful titles (WoW in particular). There is now an overwhelming crowd of gamers who are obsessive goal-setters and power gamers. Even if they do not have the faculty to figure out the optimal way of playing, someone else would and they will be just one step behind with just the same determination. This helps us reach the following few conclusions:
2.1 Content and goal-driven gameplay merely delay the inevitable - Paragon and Account-Bound items are not engaging - sure they give players something new to do for a few days after the patch, it will all be consumed in a matter of days (even Paragon 100 didn't take that long)...
2.2 Adherence to "balance" is counterproductive - The moment players step into D3 they will notice Blizzard tippy-toeing around the awkward issue of "balance". This is apparent in their Skill-design, Monster Design and blatantly obvious in their itemisation...using the RNG is one thing, using it on bland stats on items is hard to forgive.
2.3 Homogenising items for the sake of Auction House devastates player motivation - Itemisation deserves a closer look because it is what Diablo is all about. Blizzard designed its items so that there is a smooth upgrade curve that is readily reflected on the Auction House. The reality after a few months is that only the very best items retain any value. While this seems like good news to players who just reached inferno...soon they will realise upgrading to the next level of gear, or even farming something which enables them to, becomes enough of a chore to suggest using real money, but not enough of a boost to really shell out that money. I'm sure there are players who reside on the tip of that upgrade curve, but the majority of players are staring at a wide chasm of unaffordable gear.
2.4 The auction house itself - coming from a quantitative analysis background myself, I feel that the AH is too efficient (in an economic sense). When there are enough flippers, botters and bargain-hunters sitting staring at the AH for days on end, the market will shape itself too quickly to a state I mentioned in 2.3. The way that the AH is designed is so that any price discrepancies are picked up almost immediately, leaving a market that is saturated with very similar items at very similar prices, at which point it becomes an exercise in volume undercutting which individual players aren't going to have much interest in. The AH is mechanical, impersonal and ultimately boring.
3. Next steps...
This is the part where I fantasize on being the new game director, and list some of the things I would focus on.
3.1 - Introduce an alternative to the Auction House.
3.1.1 - Establish specialised ingame "trade environments" with capacity for sizable numbers of players, with real face-to-face auctions and tools to display and make and receive offers on your listings. These environments can be categorised based on classes or reserves for example.
3.1.2 - Increase AH fees to encourage use of this system
The point here is to make trading a more social and tangible exercise, but without the painful lack of features that D2 had.
3.2 - Remove Account-Bound
Everything deserves a market in a Diablo game.
Account-bound is Blizzard's reaction to an overly efficient auction house. It's like saying "we cannot stop the immediate saturation of our shiny new content so we are too afraid to put it on the AH".
Given my suggestion in 3.1 - make these items at least tradable on a more direct basis.
Do not listen to the players who claim they need this "sense of achievement". They will not be there to play your game when they finish their "achieving".
3.3 - More interesting items - items which characters will build around
This will encourage build diversity without trivialising game difficulty, which is pretty much what Blizzard has done so far - made the game easier so more builds are "viable"...yet everyone still plays the same skills and even the same class because it is the path of least resistance.
If you've read this far, I thank you for your time and feedback. I've written this because Diablo still does something which no other franchise can do.
If you are a Blizzard recruiter, feel free to contact via PM and we can work something out ^__^
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[i]But have you seen...[/i]
[i]Quadbox Ubers MP5+......[/i]
[i]With different classes?......[/i]
[i]Under a reasonable budget......[/i]
[i]With 2 computers......[/i]
[i]Using 1 hand for each computer.....??[/i]
???
I present to you:
[I Dual Wield IRL] - Quadbox MP7 Multiclass:
http://youtu.be/Sf6VGn-dnh4
How is it done?
Computer 1 - Monitor in Portrait Mode to fit 3 instances of D3 through ISboxer.
Computer 2 - Regular instance of D3.
Right hand - Logitech G700 - enough buttons for all skills as well as ISBoxer on/off toggles.
Left hand - Razer Deathadder Left-handed edition - also enough buttons and comfy on the lefthand.
What classes and why?
The cornerstones of what I do involves:
Class synergy
Affordability
Survivability stacking.
Demon Hunter 1 - http://us.battle.net...0/hero/27956110
Notable Stats:
83k dps with NO CRIT - for reasons below.
Notable Skills:
Sentry (Spitfire) + Custom Engineering = Main source of damage on this DH, it does not work with crit but 83k with 3 turrets going at 200% each is a lot for 83k Charscreen.
Numbing Traps = -20% Incoming damage, works with Sentry.
Demon Hunter 2 - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Marsh-6193/hero/10060517
Notable Stats:
140k dps
Mara, SoJ, Quiver with -5 Cluster Arrow cost.
Notable Skills:
Cluster Bombs + Grenadier = This is what makes boss HP bars move. At 25 Hatred, quite spammable.
Sentry (Guardian) = -15% Incoming damage when facetanking.
Nightstalker - Mandatory for Shadow Power without having a lifesteal xbow or using active slot for Prep.
Barbarian - http://us.battle.net...3/hero/25409468
Notable Stats:
Decent APS
Azurewrath for more safety
Lots of MF (mainly for farming)
Notable Skills:
Weapon Throw (Throwing Hammer) - About 5 seconds of guaranteed stun every 10 or so seconds.
Ignore Pain (Mob Rule) = Emergency Button.
Threatening Shout + Warcry = The main reason this Barb takes a spot. If i had better gear I would use a third DH.
(Lefthanded) Monk - http://us.battle.net...0/hero/10060665
Notable Stats:
2.55 APS
2.3K LoH
Another Azurewrath
Lots of MF
Massive EHP
7k DPS hurr hurr
Notable Skills:
Crippling Wave (Concussion) - -20% incoming damage.
Conviction - Why Monk is guaranteed a spot.
Serenity (Tranquility) - Frozen has nothing on my party (unless it's champion pack). Clutch emergency.
Resolve - See Crippling Wave.
Movement Skills - Vault (Acrobat), Furious Charge - Mainly for Zultun.
Tempest Rush - (Move through farming faster).
What's next?
For higher MPs here are what I would prioritise:
1. Convert 1st DH into similar dps Cluster DPS as 2nd.
2. Upgrade both DH.
3. Give Barb better throwing gear (not cost efficient since throwbarb is FoTM) Plus i would rather keep Throwing Hammer.
4. Give monk marginally better dps without losing survivability (also not cost efficient).
2xDH with 150K+ dps with low cost cluster is plenty for MP10 - will get there one day.
What else?
There are other videos, including a recent one on my farming setup (which you can find the characters for in those profiles). Farming that involves Arcane Destruction. 8mil+ crits
Enjoy, comment and tell your friends!
See you all in PvP!
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This is a solid point and now I look at it, there is no issue with Blizzard encourage us to hunt for it ourselves on release, and then a couple months down the track when something else is new, allowing trading of the keys. I actually think that's probably what will happen.
Cheers for the discussion.
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What about taking a step back and just allowing KEYS to be traded?
After all to converting from keys to organs requires a concerted effort involving at least 5 stacks and 1 run of MP10, more if not MP10.
I'm not really pushing hard for it to happen, because I am perfectly capable of obtaining my own rings, but don't sit in front of the game all day to play the market. I'm just saying giving these rings an "indirect" gold value can only help with the one thing that allows D3 to stand out from competitiors - a comparison of gear values.
I guess the argument really is:
Does Blizzard want to follow player sentiment and do something TL2 does well, in an attempt to reconcile its playerbase?
or
Does Blizzard want to stick to its guns and work on the longetivity of the Auction House, which in turn complements all the other epeen stroking features such as Profile that D3 already has?
My stance is that the current crop of gamers is very promiscuous...nothing really will hold their attention for a long enough period of time. Also the current generation gamers are very social networking conscious, and are eager to show off and gloat their "achievements".
So after playing TL2 and repeatedly enchanting your items...what then? Make a youtube video to show off?
Diablo has an intrinsic system (the market) in place which makes players feel invested, but again that could be just me?
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Have a think about it again. You are buying a chance to roll another ring. You are not buying the ACTUALRING with the stats you want. I'm advocating for a market an OPPORTUNITY, not an item. There will be a difference between what your average player considers to be a "good enough ring", to what your OCD godly considers to be...actually their rings can never be "good enough". Having a market will sort this out.
Getting a best in slot is very rare. The streamers can tell you they can identify 200 rings, and someone they know identifies 1...and guess what? That 1 ring is better than the 200. Having a market for JUST the components does not affect this variation - in fact it encourages it.
Allowing Auctions of components gives everyone an option to CHOOSE how many times they would like to roll the rings, and let me REPEAT NOT CHOOSE what ring they are going to actually get.
Thank you. This is the perfect reason why a market for Organs is superior to no market.
The two of you should step back for a second, and stop thinking about what YOU would do, or what YOUR feelings are.
You might get a fuzzy feeling that you rolled a decent ring on your first attempt, and then gloat in front of others, but what's really going to happen is:
You are a reasonably casual player. You have your decent ring, GREAT! Back to Paragon leveling....boriiiing! Back to borderlands?
You are a hardcore player. You have made quite a few rings....everyday you continue to do runs in the hope of a better ring...
What I'm suggesting is not for the benefit of your sentiments, but what is better for the longetivity of this game, and this game's defining product feature (because Torchlight has almost everything else D3 has).
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The Current State of Affairs:
- Paragon Levels has given players a definite goal to work towards, although the prospect of minute increases of MF/GF past a certain Plvl becomes rather grindy. It is definitely a step in the right direction.
- The Auction House is stagnant. There is too much of a value gap between "great welfare rare" to "desired roll legendary". I'm pretty sure Blizzard is looking at their AH and RMAH transaction volumes and scratching their heads.
- The upcoming patch is a great step. It gives players a much less predictable means of progress, almost to the point of gambling when it comes to creating the rings. This makes people keep coming back for that kick of adrenaline when the ring is being made.
The Auction House is the main attraction of Diablo; that there is a market value for your gear setup that is supported by a robust system. This is also the main product differentiation from other titles such as Torchlight.
I believe it is a big mistake for blizzard to not create a market for Keys or Organs (I'd say organs is the better route). The ability to channel transactions towards an item (the ring) which is account bound is key to resurrecting the AH. It means more gold supply (think money supply in economics) because the ubergeared will bring out their gold to buy the parts, the not-so-ubergeared has a way to earn some gold to upgrade their other gear. In the long run the ubergeared will continue to roll rings, and the market will have a base-line value of gold which is not (as) liable to depreciation as the current oversupply of rares and legendaries. (In case you didn't understand that last sentence: the rings themselves are still account-bound and will not flood the market).
My proposal:
Organs should be Auctionable.
MP10 Should not be a 100% guaranteed drop of keys/organs. Improved yes, not 100% drop. This defeats the purpose of having the MP slider because people will see MP10 as mandatory (isn't this what we are trying to discourage?)
Now here are some possible arguments against this idea and my response to them:
1. We want to move this game away from the "pay-to-win" motto.
Realistically with the introduction of MP the concept of "win" is relative. Someone not-so-geared can still feel success at a lower MP. Sure a rich person will roll maybe 10 times as many rings as your average player under my system...but after their first "good" ring they will keep doing it just in the hopes of getting something better. So all that gold they are spending is going down the sink. Which is exactly what the AH needs.
2. More can be added here in future edits.
While players are busy being excited about how they are going to get their first ring on the PTR, this is the real question Blizzard needs to ask themselves:
The Hellfire Ring will be a huge (and excellent) timesink...why not make it a money sink as well?
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