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Standing and channelling in Inferno causes me to die. Someone can make it work I am sure, but that someone isn't me.
Disintegrate's range is too short and it is hard to aim when my fingers are twitching from panic.

I use shocking grasp- piercing orb or arcane orb - celestial orb when I want piercing damage. Both have decent size missles and so hit more easily than disintegrate for me. Both have good range and I can toss them in my wake when running, teleporting and kiting. If I get surprised by champions I often run first into a cleared area and throw piercing damage behind me, most enemies chase and walk into my burst.

Because I am not used to disintegrate anymore I find Archon also limited. YMMV

@ruppgu

Bats does higher single target damage than splinters, and is also AoE. It also has no additional problem affixes, while darts has severe trouble with sheilding, dampening, and invulnerable (regardless of strategy, those packs are more difficult by a large margin - as it is their nature to be difficult for darts.)

1: grasp and wall are used at the same freequency in either build. so a player wouldn't "cast less"
2: Hex, confusion, and horrify are all usable while running / when a player should be running, so you dont "cast less". That means that the "cast less" con you listed, doesn't actually apply. Skilled players dont use "no-use" skills just to gain VQ.
3: Grasp and wall are always on CD for all builds that use them (and enemies that dont need them - a player wouldnt need the mana from VQ anyways). confusion can be used offensively, if it were used. This leaves SW or hex (or horrify), to rotate as "on demand" devensive cooldowns.
4: Poison dart builds require mana regen, to do even remotely equivilant damage without a mana passive (even at a lowly 2.0 APS). If a person doesn't have the gear to actually hit higher breakpoints (2.6+) that are, the question becomes moot pretty quickly anyways. Granted, this is with PtV, but if you arent using PtV with darts... the comparison is drastically different.
5: No build prevents a WD from using JF. Not even VQ Bears. JF is a choice that is reflective of a WD's gearing choices, and playstyle. I've used it in my bats build, both in progression, and during farming, before I got gear that was both defensive and offensive.
6: WD don't die more with bats, only bears. They actually die less with bats, since they have the exact same survivability gear/cooldowns with darts - but more damage, and as AOE - which means less monsters to deal with. There's actually gain returns on LoH and LS with bats, at a quicker rate, due to multiple targets. I'm not sure how you could argue it's not the case - when we're using the same defensive/offensive cooldowns

You said people should stop stating their word was fact - but what we're talking about is game data, that is quite clear. Things like playstyle, or what's fun; those are opinions. I found 3.9APS darts was fun prenerf - and was an advocate for it then. Prenerf it was incredibly strong, because with that amount of APS, other builds wernt functional with VQ exclusively. I didnt like being locked into 2 passives to make one build functional, when using the strongest DPS stat (IAS). Now, when bats / darts BOTH only require one passive to be fuctional / viable, I find darts less fun, and more boring that flaming bats. That is me using words to form opinion, not fact. The facts are independent of my opinion, though my opinion is the same: unless you are using bad medicine, there is no scenario in average gear levels that darts is supperior to bats, and many in which darts is not even equal to bats.

None of this was meant to be an attack (in fact, i went back and changed every instance of the word "you" to "a player" just to make sure it didnt come off as aggresive), but it is meant to be eye opening. The problem is, the people promoting VQ bats, still think it's a good idea to use long CD's, usually because they came over from VQBears when the patch broke it. That means that people think it's the only way to VQBat. It isn't, and I'd be less succesful if I used the VQ bat build on the front page that uses FetArm over confusion.

With recently upgraded gear, im getting off 12 bats before oom, and 20 (almost 21) if I honored guest at oom (used to be 10/17) Thats without VQ. No solo elite pack takes that many bats to kill unless it's extra health. I can actually use pierce the veil, with VQ, and not run oom when VQ's up durring normal combat (say.... an entire fight vs Azmodan or siegebreaker). My personal experience shows that I don't even HAVE to maintain VQ to use bats on a normal basis, and with farming, the 3-6 seconds TP/WP hopping means even less of that.

If i found a ceramonial knive with good damage, and 10+MR, i wouldnt even use VQ anymore. It wouldn't be necesary, as i'm already (almost) regenerating my mana at the speed a wizard would generate arcane power as a paper doll.


Boy... that was a lot longer than what i intended...

This is going to be a long post but I wanted to go into a bit of detail on a way of playing with Vision Quest that doesn’t feel clunky. TLDR: Dire Bats/Vision Quest Build with 5 cooldown spells, crit is good, weapon dmg is much more important than attack speed/dps. Stop reading now if you don’t care about the details. You’ve been warned!

*****
EDIT: HERE'S VIDEOS FROM ANOTHER POST: http://www.diablofan...-cds-an-update/

I rolled with the dart build. It served me very well and got me through Act II. But Act III was a chore—hordes upon hordes of enemies, but my main source of dmg hits one mob at a time! Worse, certain affixes were a nightmare: illusionist (shudder), invulnerable minions, and worst of all, plagued…and all I ever seemed to be getting was plagued.

I’d had enough. Then Blizzard mentioned they may be nerfing attack speed, so instead of diving full force into an attack speed build, I decided to go another route. While I believe my build is by no means novel, I think I may have some explanations behind the flavor of this build to explain why it can (and does) work well.

First off, the build:

http://us.battle.net...dURP!UVW!aaZZab

Vision Quest seemed like really clunky design to me when I used it during Hell. I loved the ability to spam bats, but I just kept using abilities solely to trigger the 300% mana regen, which I knew would be a huge problem in inferno (which it was). Here’s the “secret”: Vision Quest is meant to be used with FIVE cooldown spells, not four. This way, you can always have Spirit Walk in case of emergency (or whichever spell you’re saving if the situation isn’t dangerous, i.e., Fetishes) or when you run out of mana (with rune Spirit Walk restores 30% of mana). Basically here’s how it works: Cast Fetishes, then Grasp of the Dead just in front of the mobs (or on them if they have very little hp). Spirit Walk, run in and get stacks with Soul Harvest, then run back out and spam bats.

With elites you can do this: wait until the elite is just to the edge of your grasp about to get free, then run through them with Spirit Walk, Soul Harvest on them, and keep going. Now those elites have to go all the way through the grasp of the dead zone again. (Special Note: With Fast affix mobs, you usually just need to keep running in one direction so you will not always have the benefit of Soul Harvest—having at least 12% movement speed is crucial in late inferno anyway.)

Important stats:

Main points:

1) Yes. You can have vision quest and PtV in the same build. This requires 2 pieces of mana regen gear to work well (10 or more mana per second per piece), and three is almost overkill but very very nice (though I find ceremonial daggers do not have the base dmg I need for this build, even the ones selling for 20 million—so my weapon is a 1H mace.) Calling PtV a “dps loss” is reductive and does not take into account builds like this where I can spam bats without stopping all the way until Spirit Walk is off CD which gives back 30% mana.
2) When using bats, ATTACK SPEED IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. The most important number for a bats build is how much your bats hit for, and the way you can figure that out is the following: Take your DPS number from your character sheet and divide it by your ATTACK SPEED. This gives your “damage”—and dire bats do 220% weapon dmg to everything in a line for 40 yards. So take that “damage” number and multiply it by 2.2 to figure out the average hit of a bat.
3) There is a Voodoo Mask affix which reduces the base mana cost of Dire Bats by 5-11 mana. This is amazing, but if your helm has both mana regen AND +mana, it might be better than one that only reduces the cost of Dire Bats. Edit: The best combination is +mana regen and reduce cost of dire bats.
4) Wallers and mortar enemies are much easier with this build, especially in Act III, as you don’t need line of site to hit with bats. Use stairwells creatively and you can shoot bats at angles where the enemies cannot hit you with their projectiles. Elite Soul Lashers are still not possible with this build--can anyone kill them? Jesus. Edit: Soul Lashers are now just like any other mob and easily killable with this build.
5) I HATE needing to have Sprit Vessel, but it’s great for more than just the free death—it reduces the CD on Spirit Walk, which increases your mana efficiency. I eventually want to spec into Blood Ritual instead of Spirit Vessel, once the mobs hit less hard. This will make bats spammable for 16 full seconds with my current stats (I can spam them for 12 seconds now after casting everything else, and by then Spirit Walk is off CD anyway—it would just make bosses faster).
6) “Mana bleed” should be something all Witch Doctors think about. I made a spread sheet to help me figure out how much mana I lose per second spamming my main dmg spell while considering my passive and active regen, and I’d be willing to share it if people actually want to use it lol.
7) This build has one very significant weakness: Reflects dmg elites in Act III+ (including Whimseyshire). Just ONE bat going through 4 elites with this build hits me for more than 4k dmg. This is why I have the healing rune on Hex (I would LOVE to use Jinx—it’s much much better for all other encounters) and why I have the Siphon rune on Soul Harvest. Edit: I now use Jinx on Hex 100% of the time, but this is probably gear-dependent. Start with Hedge if they give you trouble.
8) Speaking of Soul Harvest, I see it as optional. I really need it for the heal on Reflects Dmg elites and the extra dmg is just awesome, but if you have enough hp regen per second you may find another spell (with a CD of course!) may serve you better.
9) Hex is just OP. Incredible spell. It will save you even more than spirit walk, and it works on many bosses. Mandatory IMO.
10) When you cast them, you aren’t “wasting” fetishes—you’ll always have them up for an elite fight, just wait and see. And you can use BBV instead, but I find that in solo play BBV is frustrating because it remains in one place. In Act IV I often swap in Zombie Wall, which is great. Fetish Ambush is also a great thing to use in earlier acts because it will one-shot many elites if it crits.
11) This build works for five stack Siegebreaker runs including the boss, all the way through Azmodan, and Whimseyshire. Act I and II are completely faceroll—I can clear the cemetery to get five stacks then do Whimseyshire and loot the whole thing (after changing into MF gear) in under 30 minutes. Act II feels like Act I used to feel (not completely faceroll, but not hard). Siegebreaker 5 stack runs can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on whether or not I get a Herald of Pestilence elite pack or a reflects dmg elite—they require more time for me. Usually from Bridge of Korsik to the end of the act takes 1 hour- 1 hour and 20 minutes (3 bosses, at least 12 elite packs).

Gearing

1) You want intellect, +chance to crit, +crit dmg, then whatever survival stats you prefer (vit, all resist, armor, life on hit, life per sec, etc.). Shoot for an attack speed of 1.5-1.6 TOTAL (so you can use a 1.3 weapon with a 15% attack speed piece). That will work for 2 mana regen pieces—you’ll need 3 mana regen pieces if you’re going into the realm of 1.7+ which probably means nerfing your “damage” by getting a lower base dmg ceremonial knife. You’ll want at least 30k hp to take a spear or two in Act III.
2) You can get +crit chance over 50% with the proper gear and using the Scoundrel follower (+3% crit chance). You can get crit dmg up over 380%, which requires getting a weapon with lots of crit already plus a socket for a 100% crit dmg gem, which you’ll have one day in the future. At this writing my +crit chance is up to 25% and crit dmg is 190%--my bats hit for 66k average, with 175k crits. I only have +crit chance on my off-hand (8%), my bracers (3%), and my gloves (6%). Now I want a helm (6% crit max), two rings (4.5 crit max each), and a good amulet with crit (8.5% max), but these are going to be quite expensive as I also want +crit dmg on them too! Edit: Got 'em! ;-) The most expensive by far was the amulet--30 million, but it has lots of intellect, 60% crit dmg, 7.5% crit chance, 111 vitality, and a huge amount of life on kill.
3) Searching for a one-hander is less depressing than when looking for a darts build because they are often cheaper. Look for a high minimum damage (over 400 is good, over 500 is better) and a high maximum damage (over 900 is good, over 1000 is better) with an attack speed of around 1.2.-1.4 (you can go lower if you have an attack speed piece—remember you can safely go up to 1.6 attack speed with this kind of build, assuming you have two mana regen pieces—and plus mana is also great!).
4) For offhand, you want 100-400 (prob more like 90-340, ones closer to 100-400 are too expensive but you can find one in the 90-340 range for very low prices you just have to look through ALL of them) and make sure it has mana regen. Plus mana is also great. And don’t forget the offhand can have 8.5% crit!

Hope this gives you some ideas. I know it’s nothing new, but I hadn’t read the “whys” behind some of these decisions, and I thought it might help some people out.